[2017] Just Joined Marriott Vacation Club - Was it a good choice?

[Quilter]

Not necessarily. Both DC and Marriott.com allow you to "purchase" specific view categories. You will get that view category. With II, you are guaranteed nothing, and will likely receive it.

I think Quilter is saying that within each view category there is a hierarchy for room assignments; owners get the best OF rooms, OV rooms, etc.

That said, a private renter (i.e. not a rental through Marriott) should get the same room that the owner from whom it is rented would have received.

Yes vacationtime that's what I meant. And for the most part you get the benefits of the owner.

That's why I'll repeat myself. . .

The simplest way to work the MVC system is to rent from a seasoned owner who is at the Chairman level.

 

[taffy19]

What you say is correct, but please also recognize the value of being able to cancel without penalty. I would reiterate again comments from my post above that there is significant value in being able to cancel a reservation, not just in the securing the original reservation. I just returned from a vacation that could never have happened with owner rentals and it was tremendous one on one time with my son.

There are far too many variables to reduce this down to a one-structure-fits-all solution. For me, my work heavily impacts when I can travel, and I may not know until very close to the travel dates what is possible. So, I currently am holding two reservations at Ritz Carlton St. Thomas (Thanksgiving 2017 and February 2018), one at HHV (across Veteran's Day in 2017), one at Ko Olina (across President's Day 2018) and one at Elysian Beach Resort (March 2018).

I will maybe use one or two of them and will cancel the others -- but I have no idea what work will be like across all those dates so I will make the reservations and then cancel them (or rent them) as desired. The only one that is modestly problematic is the Ko Olina, because it's an II trade. But I'll cancel that if I have too.

For summer 2017, I've got lots of contiguous reservations in Hawaii (WPORV, MOC, Ko Olina, Grand Waikikian) -- I just shortened the WPORV reservation from 12 days to 7 days because it's clear now I can't take the full trip, and Grand Waikikian will likely also be canceled.

But, this structure -- true flexibility -- would not be possible without owning the different timeshares. Plus, it's fun for a quantitative person like me!!

Best,

Greg

I had to look this up too and you are that person!

At the end, every person should make up their own mind what is best for them. However, TUG has saved thousands of dollars over the years for people who were told lies or didn't understand what exactly they were buying. They were fortunate to find this forum in time to rescind the contract.

 

[davidvel]

Yes vacationtime that's what I meant. And for the most part you get the benefits of the owner.

That's why I'll repeat myself. . .

The simplest way to work the MVC system is to rent from a seasoned owner who is at the Chairman level.

My point was related to an II exchange, in which you are guaranteed no view category at all, even if the underlying week had a good one. (Something that I hate as it strips the rights and value off the underlying week.)

 

[TXTortoise]

My point was related to an II exchange, in which you are guaranteed no view category at all, even if the underlying week had a good one.)

That's what I thought, but rooms for my last two trades to Marriott Maui, via II, were assigned strictly based on the published view shown on the II certificate. One garden view, the other OV.

 

[Quilter]

What you say is correct, . . .

There are far too many variables to reduce this down to a one-structure-fits-all solution. For me, my work heavily impacts when I can travel, and I may not know until very close to the travel dates what is possible. So, I currently am holding two reservations at Ritz Carlton St. Thomas (Thanksgiving 2017 and February 2018), one at HHV (across Veteran's Day in 2017), one at Ko Olina (across President's Day 2018) and one at Elysian Beach Resort (March 2018).

. . .

For summer 2017, I've got lots of contiguous reservations in Hawaii (WPORV, MOC, Ko Olina, Grand Waikikian) -- I just shortened the WPORV reservation from 12 days to 7 days because it's clear now I can't take the full trip, and Grand Waikikian will likely also be canceled.

But, this structure -- true flexibility -- would not be possible without owning the different timeshares. Plus, it's fun for a quantitative person like me!!

Best,

Greg

So sorry to see none of your reservations cross our paths

I suspect Golden will be getting into quantitative spreadsheets. Seems like that kind of brain

 

[BocaBoy]

They are not old questions. They are the basics.

Maybe basics, but definitely old as far as this thread is concerned. You are making exactly the same points that were made by a couple of other posters earlier. They were fully debated and your posts sound like you did not read those prior comments as you raise them with no reference to the prior discussions.

 

[bazzap]

It is certainly true that II exchanges do not consistently guarantee a view category across all MVC resorts.
However, whilst some resorts clearly do not honour the underlying view category, some do and I have direct personal experience of others where the view category has even been upgraded.
So yes there is no guarantee, but it is not always a downgrade.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

Yes vacationtime that's what I meant. And for the most part you get the benefits of the owner.

That's why I'll repeat myself. . .

The simplest way to work the MVC system is to rent from a seasoned owner who is at the Chairman level.

The best way to go to a football game is to know a player and take their friend and family tickets. The best way to fly is to know rich people that own and will take you on their private jets.

This point has shown up in here several times. Is it so easy to do this that's it's a relevant point? Through VPE or something?

 

[chunkygal]

The intangibles are important.
Like most here, we found this site only after buying retail. What's done is done, but that being said, I own a week at waihoia worth 5000+ points, which trades well almost everywhere and we even get the II trades we want when we need them, but I "rent" points out and in when I need to now and every time I get MCV fever (which is every time I Am on vacation there), I throw cold water on my face and read the forums.
That being said, I could easily afford it paying cash
My family has had some of the most awesome memories ever with Marriott and even if buying retail 20 years ago was a mistake, I wouldn't trade those for anything. Anything.

 

[Quilter]

This point has shown up in here several times. Is it so easy to do this that's it's a relevant point? Through VPE or something?

I tend to repeat myself

It is easy enough. The real test would be finding the right owner and how needy the guest is. So far, I haven't had any problems.

 

[JIMinNC]

They are not old questions. They are the basics.

If OP has reached the point where they believe they are fully educated and that a purchase from developer still makes sense than tug has done it's job.

Ultimately, it is no skin off my back either way. That being said, OP appear to be rationalizing and has some form of deep seeded fear in doing anything outside of big Corp channels. There are people like that and ultimately they have to do what is comfortable for them.

I find having insurance and an attorney is much cheaper. I also find that there are so many quality rentals offered from sites like airbnb, hotels.com etc that I can accommodate those needs as well. Ultimately, the OP has a low risk tolerance, and as such they pay the premium.

As long as they walk into the deal with their eyes open and know that their sunk cash flow is very large and they are willing to accept(and have the money) watching enough cash to pay for a car just evaporate after purchase and rescind time expires.

There have been to many on these boards that realize too late that these "deals" are sand pits.

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Again, as has been said over and over...cheapest or lowest cost isn't always the goal for everyone. Convenience and flexibility has value and often is worth paying money for. Some folks agree with that philosophy, others don't, and they want to make sure they always have the "best" financial deal. That's fine. As I said before, one size does not fit all.

You car analogy is a good one. When I buy a car, that value evaporates over time just like a timeshare. I buy the car for $30,000 or $40,000 and trade it in 10 or 15 years later for $5,000 or less. That is a really poor investment too, but that doesn't mean I should never buy a car and always take public transportation. Again, timeshare is NOT a financial investment. So it should not be analyzed as one. I could invest that $40,000 I might spend on a car in mutual fund, and it might grow 5% to 8% a year on average. Just because I could do that doesn't mean I shouldn't buy a car.

I think people wrongly look at timeshares as an asset-type investment like a house because an underlying component of timeshare is a piece of real estate. But timeshares should NOT be compared to traditional appreciating real estate. They are two different animals, partly because so much of the price of a timeshare is composed of marketing and other things not related to the underlying real estate itself. But a timeshare is thus more like buying a car than a house - expect it to decline significantly in value over time - but like a car provides the value of transportation, the timeshare provides the value of vacation experiences.

 

[chunkygal]

Trading on vpe both selling and buying has always been quick and easy for me.

 

[JIMinNC]

This point has shown up in here several times. Is it so easy to do this that's it's a relevant point? Through VPE or something?

Renting a Points reservation from a Points Owner, is basically just like renting a week from a Weeks owner, they make the reservation for you and hold it on your behalf with you listed as an "additional guest." The advantage this has over weeks rental is that with a weeks rental you are limited to the weeks any one owner owns and is willing to rent. If you want to go to different places, you may have to deal with many different owners. With the approach Quilter is talking about, a single Chairman's level points owner can book just about anything in the MVC system that can be had with Points. So you can tell them, "I want a week at Ko Olina" or "I want a week in St Thomas" and they can go online and see if that is available with their points. They then make the reservation, put your name on it as an additional guest and you pay them. In theory, a single Points owner can access any MVC resort, while any one weeks owner cannot.

They still control the reservation, but you are allowed to check-in instead of them. You also can't shop the system - they have to shop it for you and tell you what is available - but it is a way to avoid all upfront costs if you are willing to make the control compromises necessary to pursue this approach.

There are Points owners on VPE that will do this. Some only want to rent you the points themselves so that as soon as the transaction is done, they are paid and out of the picture and the points are yours to do as you wish. But there are other owners on VPE who are willing to actually make Points reservations for you and hold the reservation on your behalf until check-in. This approach is most often used by people who DO NOT own any points and thus have no Points account to transfer points into. If you own points of your own, even a minimal amount, it's probably usually better to rent the actual points rather than having a Points owner make the reservation for you.

 

[Quilter]

Renting a Points reservation from a Points Owner, is basically just like renting a week from a Weeks owner, they make the reservation for you and hold it on your behalf with you listed as an "additional guest." The advantage this has over weeks rental is that with a weeks rental you are limited to the weeks any one owner owns and is willing to rent. If you want to go to different places, you may have to deal with many different owners. With the approach Quilter is talking about, a single Chairman's level points owner can book just about anything in the MVC system that can be had with Points. So you can tell them, "I want a week at Ko Olina" or "I want a week in St Thomas" and they can go online and see if that is available with their points. They then make the reservation, put your name on it as an additional guest and you pay them. In theory, a single Points owner can access any MVC resort, while any one weeks owner cannot.

They still control the reservation, but you are allowed to check-in instead of them. You also can't shop the system - they have to shop it for you and tell you what is available - but it is a way to avoid all upfront costs if you are willing to make the control compromises necessary to pursue this approach.

There are Points owners on VPE that will do this. Some only want to rent you the points themselves so that as soon as the transaction is done, they are paid and out of the picture and the points are yours to do as you wish. But there are other owners on VPE who are willing to actually make Points reservations for you and hold the reservation on your behalf until check-in. This approach is most often used by people who DO NOT own any points and thus have no Points account to transfer points into. If you own points of your own, even a minimal amount, it's probably usually better to rent the actual points rather than having a Points owner make the reservation for you.

Thank you Jim for stepping in and saving me from writing so many words. We've been out enjoying this 73 day in Williamsburg.

I was with you the whole way until I came to the last sentence.

In my experience the Chairman level has great benefits. One of these is the 60 Day discount. I have a good friend who's at the Executive level, owns 20+ weeks and a smattering of DC points. He does lots of rentals. But when it gets to needing a reservation inside 60 days he sends me a text.

 

[Chucez]

You have mentioned several times that you're pretty busy and don't want to spend a lot of time "playing a game"
Even putting aside any financial aspects, you should be aware that to get the best out of MVC just to secure the reservations you want you do need to spend a reasonable amount of time understanding how the system works, planning and being ready to make your booking at the exact date and time of the earliest inventory release.
Those who do tend to be pleased with MVC, many of those who don't often tend to be rather disillusioned.

I being in the latter...The "Game" will Eat you alive...I can not believe people are still buying into the timeshare Game...

 

[JIMinNC]

Thank you Jim for stepping in and saving me from writing so many words. We've been out enjoying this 73 day in Williamsburg.

I was with you the whole way until I came to the last sentence.

In my experience the Chairman level has great benefits. One of these is the 60 Day discount. I have a good friend who's at the Executive level, owns 20+ weeks and a smattering of DC points. He does lots of rentals. But when it gets to needing a reservation inside 60 days he sends me a text.

Valid point. I was thinking more about typical longer range booking since I've never done much inside of 60 days. I generally like to have things nailed down and can't generally travel on short notice. For last minute travel the Chairman discount certainly is an advantage.

 

[JIMinNC]

I being in the latter...The "Game" will Eat you alive...I can not believe people are still buying into the timeshare Game...

There are certainly plenty of people like you who quickly become disillusioned with their timeshare, but if you spend a bit of time on TUG you will find many others of us love what we own. Because of the way timeshare is sold, many people decide to buy without the necessary analysis and consideration of the pluses and the minuses. But if you do your homework before you buy and learn how to use you ownership effectively, it can be a great way to travel. We went to three or four presentations from three different developers before our first purchase 19 years ago, and researched here on TUG and elsewhere before we bought. We also did a lot of research before buying our first Marriott 3 years ago. If you do your homework and go in with the right expectations, timeshare can be very rewarding, as many of the previous comments in this thread attest.

 

[Chucez]

There are certainly plenty of people like you who quickly become disillusioned with their timeshare, but if you spend a bit of time on TUG you will find many others of us love what we own. Because of the way timeshare is sold, many people decide to buy without the necessary analysis and consideration of the pluses and the minuses. But if you do your homework before you buy and learn how to use you ownership effectively, it can be a great way to travel. We went to three or four presentations from three different developers before our first purchase 19 years ago, and researched here on TUG and elsewhere before we bought. We also did a lot of research before buying our first Marriott 3 years ago. If you do your homework and go in with the right expectations, timeshare can be very rewarding, as many of the previous comments in this thread attest.

If you do not plan early it's a nightmare. Anyone buying a timeshare is making a mistake.



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[JIMinNC]

If you do not plan early it's a nightmare. Anyone buying a timeshare is making a mistake.

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Unless that person likes to plan early...

Yes, advance planning is an absolute necessity with timeshare ownership, especially if you want to travel in prime time. If you don't have to travel prime time, then you can get away with waiting a little latter to book, but you still need to plan. I knew about the advance planning aspect before we bought, and have actually come to like getting things nailed down 10-12 months out. For longer distance trips where we have to fly that also gives us the best chance to get better airfare or even use frequent flyer miles. We've got all of 2017 booked already and are now working on getting ready to start making decisions for 2018.

But yes, if you can't or don't want to make plans in advance, it's probably best to stay away from timeshare.

 

[jme]

So you would be willing to put 10s of thousands of your money in an "investment" where you are cash flow negative for a decade(won't earn anything on it for 10 years and if you sell before that time you will get less than face back) even while inflation eats away at the principal?
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Haven't read the entire thread because I just got back from a trip to my timeshare this afternoon, just by coincidence. And my comment might not be relevant to the gist of the long conversation, but your thought as expressed above just happened to catch my eye, and this would be my first response:

Without trying to be facetious, and I'm truly not, have you ever purchased a vehicle? or do you hire a taxi to take you everywhere?

Include your thoughts on the negatives of the extreme depreciation, insurance costs, fuel costs, and maintenance.....and eventually all for a return of little (or nothing) if viewed as an "investment".

I tend to view a timeshare purchase in the same light as a vehicle. I run the risk of both being worthless at the end of a reasonable period of use......but it's the use that serves my purposes, and not the financial return on investment, as I never viewed it as such.....I had other means for that. The ride has been good for me, however, for both my (many) owned vehicles and for my timeshares.

 

[Jason245]

Haven't read the entire thread because I just got back from a trip to my timeshare this afternoon, just by coincidence. And my comment might not be relevant to the gist of the long conversation, but your thought as expressed above just happened to catch my eye, and this would be my first response:

Without trying to be facetious, and I'm truly not, have you ever purchased a vehicle? or do you hire a taxi to take you everywhere?

Include your thoughts on the negatives of the extreme depreciation, insurance costs, fuel costs, and maintenance.....and eventually all for a return of little (or nothing) if viewed as an "investment".

I tend to view a timeshare purchase in the same light as a vehicle. I run the risk of both being worthless at the end of a reasonable period of use......but it's the use that serves my purposes, and not the financial return on investment, as I never viewed it as such.....I had other means for that. The ride has been good for me, however, for both my (many) owned vehicles and for my timeshares.

Cars are transportation. Buy what you need to accommodate your needs (that will get you from point a to point b). Drive them into the ground. Buy used unless the auto is Japanese (Toyota or honda since those depreciate straight line).

For most people in the usa, cars are not optional, you need them to get to work. Timeshares are optional.

Cars can be divested in less than 1 hour, and at a minimum you will get a tax deduction from a church. timeshares can take months to get rid of for nothing and may cost you sweetness to get rid of.

A car is an object that you have full ownership and control over, a timeshare is an interval ownership in something you have no control over except for the fact that you can use it for some set amount of time.

If you buy a car at MSRP, you generally can still get 75 percent of what you paid if you need to dump it after you drive it off the lot. With timeshares, after recision period you are lucky to get 10 percent.

Neither are investments both are cash flow. One related to vacation, the other for transport.

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[JIMinNC]

Neither are investments both are cash flow. One related to vacation, the other for transport.

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I agree with this statement. That's why I think JME's comparison is a good one (I used a similar car analogy in post #261). Just like cars, you use timeshares up over time. Yes, they are harder to sell and are an optional luxury purchase vs. a car which is more of a necessity in most of the U.S., but I don't think those two points invalidate the comparison. Both are products that are purchased and "consumed" over time, and when they are eventually disposed of at some point in the future, they may be worth little or nothing.

If you don't like the car analogy since it is more of a necessity, then I'll use another - high-end home theater systems. They can be very expensive - $10,000 to $20,000 easy, maybe even a lot more if you go very high end with 4K TV, high end surround speakers, amps, preamps to drive a multi-room audio set up, headphone amps, DVD players, Streaming devices, etc, etc. They are certainly a luxury (just like a timeshare). They lose lots of value over a 5-10 year use period (just like timeshares) and you may have to work a bit to sell them on eBay, CraigsList, whatever (just like timeshares). That doesn't mean a person who is a high end video fan or audiophile shouldn't buy such a system if they can afford it. Their enjoyment of the movies and music is worth it to them and they don't look at it as an investment. They are "consuming" the system over its usage life. So think of timeshares as a home theater for vacations! We buy them and then use them up over 10, 20, or 30 years.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

Renting a Points reservation from a Points Owner, is basically just like renting a week from a Weeks owner, they make the reservation for you and hold it on your behalf with you listed as an "additional guest." The advantage this has over weeks rental is that with a weeks rental you are limited to the weeks any one owner owns and is willing to rent. If you want to go to different places, you may have to deal with many different owners. With the approach Quilter is talking about, a single Chairman's level points owner can book just about anything in the MVC system that can be had with Points. So you can tell them, "I want a week at Ko Olina" or "I want a week in St Thomas" and they can go online and see if that is available with their points. They then make the reservation, put your name on it as an additional guest and you pay them. In theory, a single Points owner can access any MVC resort, while any one weeks owner cannot.

They still control the reservation, but you are allowed to check-in instead of them. You also can't shop the system - they have to shop it for you and tell you what is available - but it is a way to avoid all upfront costs if you are willing to make the control compromises necessary to pursue this approach.

There are Points owners on VPE that will do this. Some only want to rent you the points themselves so that as soon as the transaction is done, they are paid and out of the picture and the points are yours to do as you wish. But there are other owners on VPE who are willing to actually make Points reservations for you and hold the reservation on your behalf until check-in. This approach is most often used by people who DO NOT own any points and thus have no Points account to transfer points into. If you own points of your own, even a minimal amount, it's probably usually better to rent the actual points rather than having a Points owner make the reservation for you.

Ahh, this makes total sense now. I was wondering - why would an owner with say 2,000 pts of their own, who rents say 2,000 more points from a Chairman level, get to access the Chairman benefits? I get it now, thank you.

 

[dioxide45]

That doesn't mean a person who is a high end video fan or audiophile shouldn't buy such a system if they can afford it.

They could buy it resale on eBay or Craigslist though and save lots of money. Just like timeshares.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

Valid point. I was thinking more about typical longer range booking since I've never done much inside of 60 days. I generally like to have things nailed down and can't generally travel on short notice. For last minute travel the Chairman discount certainly is an advantage.

Presidential (10,000) have the same short booking benefit as Chairman (15,000). Even Executive (7,000) has similar, albeit 30 days vs. 60 days. https://m.marriottvacationclub.com/...rshipLevelsResources/benefits_at_a_glance.pdf