[ 2017 ] How to compare point systems?

[CO skier]

Wyndham over 100 direct resorts, another 30 more is you add associates/affilaites, but you DON'T count all the hotel options that you can book online, plus Club Pass options (which have some duplicate as there are shared Resorts with BOTH Wyndham and Worldmark have separate inventory) has another 75 resorts. So Wyndham is closer to 200.

So I think the numbers should be higher. For Wyndham and I assume there is a WM option of Club Pass that gives them access to some of the Wyndham they don't have direct access to.

I would think the Timeshare System Comparison Chart is intended to inform potential resale buyers. Resale buyers in Club Wyndham and WorldMark do not have access to Club Pass and most if not all associate/affiliate resorts, so the number of resorts open for resale buyers to use is, I think, the best number to use.

 

[Sandy VDH]

I would think the Timeshare System Comparison Chart is intended to inform potential resale buyers. Resale buyers in Club Wyndham and WorldMark do not have access to Club Pass and most if not all associate/affiliate resorts, so the number of resorts open for resale buyers to use is, I think, the best number to use.

Good point about Club Pass, wasn't thinking that it was not accessible by resale points.

Well that would make wyndham still 130 not 90

 

[CO skier]

Good point about Club Pass, wasn't thinking that it was not accessible by resale points.

Well that would make wyndham still 130 not 90

">100" would cover all bases and still put Wyndham in first place on the list.

 

[TUGBrian]

Adding info to the DVC column ...

• Reservation window: 11 months (home); 7 months (any)
  
  
• Developer vs Resale Difference: Developer points may be used for Disney Cruise Line and Disney Hotel stays; Retail/Resale result in different Membership Cards; Resale are disqualified from the temporary Member Lounge at Epcot and certain "Member Only" events.
  
  Edited to add direct copy/paste from Disney Vacation Club site: "Disney and Concierge Collections options are not available for ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. after March 21, 2011, and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who do not purchase an ownership interest directly from Disney Vacation Development Inc. will not have access to Membership Extras."
  
  
• Average points for 2BR in High Season: 395 based on a full week spanning July 4.
  
  
• Question of Deed vs RTU: DVC is recorded as a Deed but acts like an RTU with a 50-year lease. The 50-yr lease starts at a single-point in time and does not "reset" when the ownership is sold/transferred. Not all buyers will receive a full 50 years even if buying directly from Disney.

Comment overall:

• Some point systems have different dues based on your home resort; others are based around all owners paying the same dues structure. Should that be noted? If I were just getting started looking at point systems, I'd want to know that ... ?
  
  
• "Average points for 2br" should read "Average points for 2br in HIGH season" ?

Thank you, Brian -- great start on the table.

whats the average/usual cost on a 395 point ownership?

 

[TUGBrian]

updated with the most recent info (dont hesitate to remind me if something is still wrong or i missed someones suggestion)

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare-system-comparison-chart.html

 

[rhonda]

whats the average/usual cost on a 395 point ownership?

$2591.24 based on 2017 dues, 13 DVC resorts (including Copper Creek which opens this summer), excluding subsidized rates at Vero and Aulani.

However -- the devil is in the details, certainly. Some DVC resorts require a higher-than-average number of points for the room but had a lower dues-per-point. Two properties, that I know of, offer subsidized dues on some contracts. My rough attempt at forming an "average" did NOT account for size of each resort which can skew the numbers based on total number of points and $$ of dues generated by that resort w/in the system.

 

[rhonda]

How about a row for extra fees?

• Guest Cert? Free for Worldmark and DVC
• Reservation booking fee? Free for Worldmark and DVC
• Housekeeping?
  DVC includes standard housekeeping for all DVC reservations; extra (optional) housekeeping is offered at a fee.
  WM includes 1 free housekeeping per use year for accounts 5,000-19,999 points; 1 free housekeeping per use year per 10k points owned from 20k and up (2 HK tokens for 20k, 3 HK tokens for 30k, etc.). Additional housekeeping charged after free HK tokens are consumed; rate is based on unit size.
  I s'pose you could sum this up: First stay included; Addition stays may incur Housekeeping Fee.
• TOT?
  DVC: only at Aulani; TOT is collected at Resort Check-in; rate varies by unit size and length of stay.
  WM: TOT is collected at time of reservation for many WM resort locations. Rate varies by property, unit size and length of stay.

How about a row for Banking and Borrowing?

• DVC: Banking and Borrowing are free, irreversible transactions. New points, at the start of each Use Year period, are valid for 12 months and will expire at the end of the use year unless banked into the future use year. Banking may be performed only during the first 8 months of the use year. Points may only be banked or borrowed one year.
• WM: Banking and Borrowing are automatic, free, and do not require a separate 'transaction.' New points, at the start of each use year period, are valid for 24 months and will expire at the end of the use year unless tied to a future reservation. Points from the next use period may be used to complete any reservation in current or next use period.

More on the Exchange Company topic.

• DVC has RCI via Corporate Membership. RCI access is included in the dues.
• WM supports RCI Weeks or II via Individual Memberships. The member will pay separately for either or both memberships. WM with TravelShare (developer purchases since 2006) include both RCI Weeks and RCI Points via Corporate Membership included in the TravelShare dues.

 

[TUGBrian]

I think perhaps a different chart or advice article would be applicable for getting into the details of differences there...but im happy to create one when this is done! keep that in mind and remind me once we get this hashed out.

Im just not sure we could get that much detail in a small little "Grid" square and still keep it readable.

 

[TUGBrian]

we could add "asteriks" to the mf amount for those systems that include the cost of RCI/II (or other useful things) in the annual maintenance fees!

 

[CO skier]

Brian,
I will give you my opinion of average data for HGVC:
ave (2br) MF: $1000

I know very little about HGVC other than what I investigated regarding Platinum Hilton Valdoro for ski season. The 7,000 points for Platinum is accurate, but $1000 mf for that 7,000 points seems low compared to the "average" used for other systems. MF for 7,000 Platinum points is $1285 for Valdoro.

The 2 bedroom maintenance fee estimates on the Timeshare System Comparison Chart for Wyndham and WorldMark seem on the high side to me. No problem, but if we are to use the high side as the comparison, then the high side of each system should be used for comparison.


Because I know so little about HGVC, I reviewed a few posts in the HGVC Maintenance stickie. What I saw indicates that $1300/week for 7,000 Platinum season is a better number to use as an average for the Timeshare System Comparison Chart. High side of HGVC compared to the high side of Club Wyndham and WorldMark.

So, the first question for knowledgeable readers, "Is $1000/week for WorldMark and $1150/week for Club Wyndham on the "high side" for a Prime Season week in a 2 BR unit in these systems?

The second question then, "Is $1300/week (including Program Costs) on the high side, but comparable to other systems" for a 2 BR, 7,000 points Platinum HGVC?

 

[nuwermj]

Right To Use (RTU) does carry connotations of an end date to the membership, so I do not know what should go in the "Deed or RTU" row.

I think the RTU/Deed distinction predates pure point systems. With the introduction of pure point systems there are now three general types of timeshare structures:

1. fee simple, where the owner of the timeshare has a direct, deeded interest in real property;

2. leasehold, where the owner of the timeshare has a term limited entitlement pursuant to a lease agreement registered on the land (traditional RTU); and

3. beneficial interest, where the owner of the timeshare has an indirect ownership in real property (pure points).

Both 2 and 3 are right-to-use structures.

 

[nuwermj]

updated with the most recent info (dont hesitate to remind me if something is still wrong or i missed someones suggestion)

More information for the table:

Average points for 2br
Bluegreen = 18,000
DRI = 10,000


Average (2br) Maint Fees
DRI = $2,000
(I made a mistake with my previous estimate)

 

[GT75]

I know very little about HGVC other than what I investigated regarding Platinum Hilton Valdoro for ski season.

If you are comparing MF to Valdoro, then it is one of the higher MFs in HGVC system. I also own Valdoro, but I wouldn't recommend buying there unless for the ski season/home week advantage. If you did look at our Sticky, then you will notice that our lowest MFs (http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...ith-the-lowest-mfs.249249/page-2#post-1988917) for 7000 points is $580 and 11500 points is $783. But I would estimate a good MF average is around $0.15/point (the actual average is $0.1361/point for reported MFs). So I think $1000 is still a fair number for HGVC MFs.

I think that someone suggested adding "program fees" after I previously posted. HGVC club dues are $159/year {2017 price} in addition to MFs for the first property only. There are no additional charges if the owner books home week including using guest certificate. I have never paid any housekeeping charges when using HGVC. A fee resorts do have parking charges such as HHV (Hilton Hawaiian Village). There is no charge for borrowing points and $99 for saving points into following year.

So the total for HGVC including club dues for 7000 points is $1159-1200 range for average MFs.

The 2 bedroom maintenance fee estimates on the Timeshare System Comparison Chart for Wyndham and WorldMark seem on the high side to me. No problem, but if we are to use the high side as the comparison, then the high side of each system should be used for comparison.

I think the best is to provide average MFs not highest. I think that this will serve the users the best. If everyone would like to use the highest, then I will be happy to adjust my numbers.

 

[rhonda]

So, the first question for knowledgeable readers, "Is $1000/week for WorldMark and $1150/week for Club Wyndham on the "high side" for a Prime Season week in a 2 BR unit in these systems?

I think the $1000/week for Worldmark seems high. My current dues on 20k annual WM points is $1387.48. So half of that would be ~$700 for the "average 10k 2BR WM week in high season at most resorts."

And, FWIW, I counted 92 Worldmark resorts in the core WM system available to a resale buyer. This number excludes all WM South Pacific, Affiliates, Club Wyndham, etc. (I was shocked. I thought the '90' currently shown on the table was high ... but wowza, we have 90+! I've got some traveling to do .. we've only stayed at 51 different WM properties, including WM SP.)

 

[Sandy VDH]

I think the $1000/week for Worldmark seems high. My current dues on 20k annual WM points is $1387.48. So half of that would be ~$700 for the "average 10k 2BR WM week in high season at most resorts."

But housekeeping charges are required, and that was added to the cost of a 2 BR week.

 

[rhonda]

But housekeeping charges are required, and that was added to the cost of a 2 BR week.

Not necessarily? For comparison purposes, wouldn't one assume the first reservation each use year for every WM account use the free housekeeping token? Sure, housekeeping and TOT may drive up reservation costs -- but these belong in separate table rows not 'lumped' into the MF cost.

 

[nuwermj]

"is $1150/week for Club Wyndham on the 'high side' for a Prime Season week in a 2 BR unit in these systems?"

CWA (Access; trust fund) fees on 190,000 points are $1,064 plus $128 for program fees, totaling $1,192.

 

[terces]

It depends on where you want to go. Hawaii, Seaside Oregon, and a few others during Spring Break or Summer or Cabo for the Winter you had better be longed at Opening 6am Pacific Time 13 months to the day. Other places more flexibility.

Excellent thread - I have been working hard over the past few weeks to get my head around time-sharing to see if we can replace the RV lifestyle (yech-depreciation) so this is so timely and helpful. For a little clarity on this 13 month window, is there a new window open each day (or perhaps week) for the exact time period out 13 months in front of you. Or is there a set date every so often for the bookings.

 

[rhonda]

Excellent thread - I have been working hard over the past few weeks to get my head around time-sharing to see if we can replace the RV lifestyle (yech-depreciation) so this is so timely and helpful. For a little clarity on this 13 month window, is there a new window open each day (or perhaps week) for the exact time period out 13 months in front of you. Or is there a set date every so often for the bookings.

For WM, which was the section you quoted, the window is daily. WM allows check-on on any day of the week. You may book a reservation 13 months from "today" on any day. WM also has several different types of reservation windows, see the Reservation Calculator.

 

[rhonda]

BRIAN --

The question raised by 'terces' just above is excellent and should, likely, be referenced in the comparison table.

"Arrival days":

• WM: any (Su, M, Tu, W, Th, F, Sa)
• DVC: any (Su, M, Tu, W, Th, F, Sa)
• Wyndham: I think most Wyndham properties have, in a general sense, limited check-in days?

 

[Sandy VDH]

Everyone has to pay a membership fee. So I would include that in the cost. I would footnote this. But note that if you own multiple units this cost is shared across all units, thus perhaps reducing your fees per unit slightly.

Some get free HK or a credit, but what do you do after this, you pay. I would include it but also footnote, price includes costs for HK but you may receive a credit you can use to offset this. How many credits do you get?

We are going for an average cost, not the lowest. We just want it to be illustrative.

 

[TUGBrian]

updated...keep them coming!

 

[CO skier]

Wyndham earns an asterisk for complimentary RCI membership.

 

[GT75]

What about adding "level of accommodations" to the table since it is on the newbee questionnaire? I don't know what I would put down for HGVC so hopefully someone else will address (if that is decided to be added).

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?

I do like this effort because I really don't know anything about the other TS systems. I also like that everyone is trying to compare "apples to apples" with an honest & realistic assessment.

 

[TUGBrian]

asterisk added!