[2012] Just lost my reservation when I tried to cancel & rebook

[cotraveller]

WorldMark also has a rule:

There will be a 48-hour waiting period between a cancellation and a new reservation whenever the following occurs:
...
(2) The Owner is cancelling a Vacation Credit reservation and then requests to rebook that reservation as a Bonus
Time reservation;"
.
.

but
cancelling* a reservation with the intent to immediately re-book it at a discount, is an unethical misrepresentation, even though there is no rule in place to specifically prohibit it.

But WorldMark does not have a rule that says you cannot cancel a Vacation Credit reservation and then immediately rebook it again as a Vacation Credit reservation. That is more akin to what the Wyndham Cancel and Rebook option seems to be.

With WorldMark there is no credit advantage to doing that since the credit values don't change with time. There is a no-penalty cancellation advantage though, since you can change the cancellation time from 30 days for reservations made beyond 90 days in advance to 10 days for reservations made less than 90 days in advance, or to 2 days for reservations made 14 days or less in advance. That can be helpful if travel plans are uncertain or are weather dependent, such as when we plan to drive west across the mountains in the winter. Is taking advantage of the WorldMark rules in that manner unethical also?

If you cancel and try to rebook with WorldMark you run the risk of losing your reservation both to the wait list and to another owner. With Wyndham there is apparently also a risk of losing your reservation based on the comments in this thread. You take a risk and live with the consequences. It's called understanding the system and making the best use of it for your circumstances.

 

[CO skier]

WorldMark also has a rule:

There will be a 48-hour waiting period between a cancellation and a new reservation whenever the following occurs:
...
(2) The Owner is cancelling a Vacation Credit reservation and then requests to rebook that reservation as a Bonus
Time reservation;"
.
.
but
cancelling* a reservation with the intent to immediately re-book it at a discount, is an unethical misrepresentation, even though there is no rule in place to specifically prohibit it.

But WorldMark does not have a rule that says you cannot cancel a Vacation Credit reservation and then immediately rebook it again as a Vacation Credit reservation.

There is no rule, because one full credit reservation is being traded for another full credit reservation.

That is more akin to what the Wyndham Cancel and Rebook option seems to be.

The difference being discussed here is that within 45-60 days of arrival, VIP Platinum members can cancel a full points reservation, then immediately rebook that exact reservation for only 50% of the required points, without anyone else who may be interested in reserving the time at full price, to do so.

With WorldMark there is no credit advantage to doing that since the credit values don't change with time. There is a no-penalty cancellation advantage though, since you can change the cancellation time from 30 days for reservations made beyond 90 days in advance to 10 days for reservations made less than 90 days in advance, or to 2 days for reservations made 14 days or less in advance. That can be helpful if travel plans are uncertain or are weather dependent, such as when we plan to drive west across the mountains in the winter. Is taking advantage of the WorldMark rules in that manner unethical also?

There is no problem here because full credit reservations are being exchanged for full credit reservations.

If you cancel and try to rebook with WorldMark you run the risk of losing your reservation both to the wait list and to another owner. With Wyndham there is apparently also a risk of losing your reservation based on the comments in this thread.

With WorldMark, it would be a virtually certainty that you would lose a Christmas or other high-demand reservation to the waitlist. With Club Wynham, it is apparently not that difficult to cancel and rebook a high-demand reservation at 50% off -- because there is no waitlist and no 48-hour waiting period to re-book a reservation at a discount.

You take a risk and live with the consequences. It's called understanding the system and making the best use of it for your circumstances.

There is nothing wrong with maximizing one's use of their timeshare. When it is at the expense of fellow owners, that is not right. The fear of the waitlist on the part of people engaged in book-cancel-rebook speaks volumes.

 

[ronparise]

There is nothing wrong with maximizing one's use of their timeshare. When it is at the expense of fellow owners, that is not right. The fear of the waitlist on the part of people engaged in book-cancel-rebook speaks volumes.

There is nothing here that is "at the expense" of another owner.


if I use a reservation I made months ago, thats a reservation no other owner can use
If I cancel a reservation I made months ago and rebook it at a discount, then use it, thats still a reservation no other owner can use..

Either way I havent taken something from you..I just got to it first. Im not afraid of a wait list because I wont be able to take advantage of other owners.

A waiting list wont make more high demand reservations available, There are a finite number of them and that wont change. For example there are only about 150 Wyndham timeshare suites available to Wyndham Points owners, in New Orleans. And there are over 500000 Wyndham owners. So you and I have a 1 in 3000 chance of getting one of them for Mardi Gras. (Its actually much better than that if you own points at La Belle Maison or Avenue Plaza or Club Wyndham Access. Its much worse if you own somewhere else) And a waiting list wont stop me from trying to get more than my fair share in the first minutes they become available

 

[CO skier]

There is nothing here that is "at the expense" of another owner.

Here are just two examples how book-cancel-rebook negatively impacts other owners:

1) If there were a 48-hour waiting period before being able to rebook at a discount, or a waitlist, or some other such disincentive, very few VIPs would waste their time trying to rebook a holiday week at a discount because they would likely lose the reservation. Everyone would then be booking holiday weeks at full (points) price. Rebooking at a 50% discount, frees up 50% of the points from the initial reservaiton to compete with another owner for a different reservation. It does not seem unreasonable to imagine that many millions of Prime season points are involved in the 50% rebooking process.

2) Plenty of owners complain about not being able to book the vacation they want. There would certainly be no shortage of owners who would like Christmans vacation if another owner cancelled theirs. What if an attempted Prime season VIP cancel-rebook week is grabbed by Extra Vacations. That week, that another owner would have liked to use, is rented to someone who may not even be a member of the Club.

 

[csxjohn]

Here are just two examples how book-cancel-rebook negatively impacts other owners:

Rebooking at a 50% discount, frees up 50% of the points from the initial reservaiton to compete with another owner for a different reservation. It does not seem unreasonable to imagine that many millions of Prime season points are involved in the 50% rebooking process.....

This is a valid point. The VIP using this perk actually has more points to use than he owns at the detriment to other points owners.

However, this is a selling point that Wyndham uses to sell overpriced retail points. It's also a way for them to sell more points than there are units available. ( Don't really oversell but allow more trades for the points bought.) Someone is going to suffer, guess who? The poor folks who won't pay the tens of thousands to participate.

 

[pacodemountainside]

It appears a basic fact of life is being ignored. No matter where one turns there are VIPs, FFM Elite, fan clubs, distinguished big donors to a cause, etc., noblesse oblige.

Anyone stupid/scammed enough to pay Wyndham some $50K can get Silver VIP and goes up from there. OK, down if really savvy with PIC and special deals which very few know about!

However, this is simply a prepaid discount on ones future usage. Wyndham sales paid VOI Trust some $12 million cash for perks in 2011. For discount points they reimbursed Trust from Developer inventory just like bonus weeks.

Yes, the peasants sit in back of plane, don't get invites to Presidential inauguration, get seats in the back and on sides at theater, etc.


As infamous robber Barron of circa 1900 said, it only costs a little more to go first class and much more enjoyable.

 

[lcml11]

This is a valid point. The VIP using this perk actually has more points to use than he owns at the detriment to other points owners.

However, this is a selling point that Wyndham uses to sell overpriced retail points. It's also a way for them to sell more points than there are units available. ( Don't really oversell but allow more trades for the points bought.) Someone is going to suffer, guess who? The poor folks who won't pay the tens of thousands to participate.

Under the current Wyndham System, developer purchases are sold at a very very high premium for the VIP eligable points and not necessarily even getting VIP benifits until a very high number of developer points are purchased.

Short notice reservations at a discount are part of the current Wyndham System. Resale timeshares are not charged the premium from the developer for a purchase. The premium charged by the developer is what pays for buy-backs, new developments, and new inventory from other developers. This is what is adding to inventory when the day is done and not taking it away.

 

[bogey21]

It's also a way for them to sell more points than there are units available. ( Don't really oversell but allow more trades for the points bought.)

An interesting point. Theoretically if everyone could get units for half the designated points, Wyndham would at some point in time run out of available units. If this is true, isn't it likely that someone is being disadvantaged by this practice?

George

 

[CO skier]

However, this is a selling point that Wyndham uses to sell overpriced retail points.

The Wyndham sales department has never been known for their high ethical standards. It is a cliche to write that they will say whatever they can to make a sale. The book-cancel-rebook just kind of fell into their lap, and they are running with it.

The cautionary tale here is that "just because this is what the salesliar said, does not mean this is what you bought." You only own what is written on your ownership documents, and you won't find the book-cancel-rebook "benefit" written on any Wyndham paperwork; it could (and some people might think it should) disappear tomorrow, ... or next month or next year.

This does not help those VIPs who bought based on these misrepresentations. It does, however, provide something to think about for those who may be considering upgreeding (I love that term) to Platinum VIP for what may be a limited time opportunity to "double your membership points."

For the record, I think the VIP 50% discount (or any other VIP discount, or Resort Special) is a worthwhile benefit, as intended. If you can book 12 weeks of vacation with 6 weeks of points, because the inventory is there just waiting for you, good for you; you paid dearly for this privilege, and you deserve it. The line that is crossed is when this benefit is technically abused to rebook a Prime time reservation as if it were "unused at 60-day" inventory.

 

[CO skier]

An interesting point. Theoretically if everyone could get units for half the designated points, Wyndham would at some point in time run out of available units. If this is true, isn't it likely that someone is being disadvantaged by this practice?

George

Not to appear that I am disputing my own (very valid) points, but the 50% VIP discount reservations still use the regular number of points, it is just that the other 50% of the points are supplied by the VIP program. (This is only my limited understanding; I am not 100% certain, so if someone has more accurate information PLEASE help). The effect is that millions (billions?) of otherwise useless developer points are sucked into the reservation system, thereby diluting the available inventory for other owners. (No wonder that Wyndham would not have a vested interest in seeing an end to this practice. Will it take another lawsuit?).

The points available versus units available still has to balance, so, taken to an extreme, it would not be possible for even half (probably not even one-quarter -- didn't run the arithmetic) of the owners to attain VIP status and book-cancel-rebook at discounted points; i.e., if it were a "sold out" system, book-cancel-rebook, or any other discount would not be allowed, because the extra developer points to support the discount would not be available.

 

[ronparise]

This is a valid point. The VIP using this perk actually has more points to use than he owns at the detriment to other points owners.

This argument reminds me of the guy in the park, tearing his newspaper into small pieces and spreading them around the bench he is sitting on. When I asked him what he was doing he said "it keeps the elephants away" When I said "but there are no elephants in this park" he said...."see, it works"

this is a classic non sequitur

sure the guy in your story has more points and he gets more reservations, but to say those reservations come at someone else's expense, just doesnt follow.. Thats like saying two plus two equals blue

one owner has no better chance of booking any one reservation than any other owner. and whoever gets the reservation doesnt get it at the expense of the other

At 7 am exactly 10 months ahead of a special event week, you and I the other 500000 Wyndham points owners with points in our accounts have exactly the same chance of getting a reservation. (almost no chance, because the ARP guys got there first). And it doesnt matter if some of our points came as a result of a 50% discount or because of a cancellation earlier in the year, or from a bonus given with a recent developer purchase. or with next years points that are in the points credit pool. or from our regular use years points. Some of us are getting the reservation and most of us are not. And the ones that get it, get it because they were lucky and because they planned ahead . No one took advantage of anyone else

 

[ronparise]

An interesting point. Theoretically if everyone could get units for half the designated points, Wyndham would at some point in time run out of available units. If this is true, isn't it likely that someone is being disadvantaged by this practice?

George

It isnt true...if everone was VIP, whats so special about that? and when there are too many VIPs Wyndham will raise the bar...again

 

[CO skier]

At 7 am exactly 10 months ahead of a special event week, you and I the other 500000 Wyndham points owners with points in our accounts have exactly the same chance of getting a reservation. (almost no chance, because the ARP guys got there first). And it doesnt matter if some of our points came as a result of a 50% discount or because of a cancellation earlier in the year, or from a bonus given with a recent developer purchase. or with next years points that are in the points credit pool. or from our regular use years points. Some of us are getting the reservation and most of us are not. And the ones that get it, get it because they were lucky and because they planned ahead . No one took advantage of anyone else

The point of the discussion has nothing to do with when the reservations are initially made. It has to do with what happens to the reservations, whenever they are made, after the 60-day mark. Maybe examples will illustrate the point:

8 units are available for a Prime time reservation. The first 8 people in line get them for full points price. They all go on their reserved vacation. Simple. No developer points are freed-up to compete with other owners.

8 units are available for a Prime time reservation. The first 8 people in line get them for full points price, let's say 300k per unit. 3 Platinum VIPs successfully cancel and rebook the same reservation at a 50% discount. This frees up 450k (for the arithmetically challenged, 3 times 300k =900k, 50% times 900k = 450k) points that can be used to compete with other owners for other reservations. Here is the key difference (and I cannot fathom why it is so difficult for people to comprehend), if there were a waitlist or other such disincentive, those 3 VIPs would not have cancelled their reservation to try to rebook it. Either they would not have made it in first place, because they intended to rent it using the 50% discount to make it competitive, and they know with a waitlist the chance for a 50% discount is non-existent, or they would just keep it to use it, because that is what they intended when they made the reservation. Either way, 450k points of developer points are not freed-up to compete with other owners for other reservations. (Is this really so hard to understand?)

With a waitlist, any Prime season cancellations are taken by owners willing to pay the full points price; no developer points are freed to compete with other owner's reservations. (I feel that I am repeating myself).

 

[CO skier]

This argument reminds me of the guy in the park, tearing his newspaper into small pieces and spreading them around the bench he is sitting on. When I asked him what he was doing he said "it keeps the elephants away" When I said "but there are no elephants in this park" he said...."see, it works"

this is a classic non sequitur

A non-sequitur offered to "prove" that something is a non-sequitur is a circular non-sequitur.

 

[cotraveller]

With WorldMark, it would be a virtually certainty that you would lose a Christmas or other high-demand reservation to the waitlist.

Not necessarily, it depends on the timing. But the nitty gritty nuts and bolts of WorldMark reservations and the WorldMark waitlist is a different subject for a different thread.

The fear of the waitlist on the part of people engaged in book-cancel-rebook speaks volumes.

I suspect that those Wyndham owners would quickly learn the new neat things they could do with the waitlist. Every rule change designed to close someones perceived loophole creates new opportunities.

 

[am1]

With a waitlist, any Prime season cancellations are taken by owners willing to pay the full points price; no developer points are freed to compete with other owner's reservations. (I feel that I am repeating myself).

What would a developer do with those 450k points? They are not a charity.

A waitlist will not work. Too many owners, room sizes and resorts. Maybe a 13 month ARP or 10 month lottery could work and also benefit people without too much effort.

 

[CO skier]

1) What would a developer do with those 450k points? They are not a charity.

2) A waitlist will not work. Too many owners, room sizes and resorts. Maybe a 13 month ARP or 10 month lottery could work and also benefit people without too much effort.

1) They would pay the maintenance fees on them, and they would expire, worthless -- (and would not have been used to displace another owner's potential reservation).


2) WorldMark owners seem to just Love their waitlist, because the success rate is quite high. They can have up to 8 at a time; different rooms types; they can waitlist an entire summer at a resort (and that would be only one of their 8 allotment); lots of options. The computer is working for them 24/7 looking for those "cancellations."

There already is 13 month ARP at Club Wyndham home resorts. At 13 months or 10 months, as appropriate, it is first-come-gets-the-reservation; the rules are spelled-out, and it is all above board. A waitlist, though, would benefit those that did not get through in time.



Owning both Club Wyndham and WorldMark, my personal opinion, for what it is worth, is that WorldMark is a more egalitarian system, but is has its problems, too. Both systems provide me with what I want from my timeshare resorts. In the end, that's what counts.

 

[jjmanthei05]

The point of the discussion has nothing to do with when the reservations are initially made. It has to do with what happens to the reservations, whenever they are made, after the 60-day mark. Maybe examples will illustrate the point:

8 units are available for a Prime time reservation. The first 8 people in line get them for full points price. They all go on their reserved vacation. Simple. No developer points are freed-up to compete with other owners.

8 units are available for a Prime time reservation. The first 8 people in line get them for full points price, let's say 300k per unit. 3 Platinum VIPs successfully cancel and rebook the same reservation at a 50% discount. This frees up 450k (for the arithmetically challenged, 3 times 300k =900k, 50% times 900k = 450k) points that can be used to compete with other owners for other reservations. Here is the key difference (and I cannot fathom why it is so difficult for people to comprehend), if there were a waitlist or other such disincentive, those 3 VIPs would not have cancelled their reservation to try to rebook it. Either they would not have made it in first place, because they intended to rent it using the 50% discount to make it competitive, and they know with a waitlist the chance for a 50% discount is non-existant, or they would just keep it to use it, because that is what they intended when they made the reservation. Either way, 450k points of developer points are not freed-up to compete with other owners for other reservations. (Is this really so hard to understand?)

With a waitlist, any Prime season cancellations are taken by owners willing to pay the full points price; no developer points are freed to compete with other owner's reservations. (I feel that I am repeating myself).

I think the point your missing is the 50% of points the VIP owner gets back isn't (most likely) another hot prime reservation. They are using those points to pick up low demand weeks to use up their points. So the VIP cancel and rebook is really costing you lower demand weeks.

Jason

 

[CO skier]

I think the point your missing is the 50% of points the VIP owner gets back isn't (most likely) another hot prime reservation. They are using those points to pick up low demand weeks to use up their points. So the VIP cancel and rebook is really costing you lower demand weeks.

Jason

No, the point is, "Why should anyone get a 50% discount, and free-up developer points, on reservations that are so in-demand, that with a waitlist in effect, they would always be booked using full points from owners?"

 

[ronparise]

The point of the discussion has nothing to do with when the reservations are initially made. It has to do with what happens to the reservations, whenever they are made, after the 60-day mark. Maybe examples will illustrate the point:

8 units are available for a Prime time reservation. The first 8 people in line get them for full points price. They all go on their reserved vacation. Simple. No developer points are freed-up to compete with other owners.

8 units are available for a Prime time reservation. The first 8 people in line get them for full points price, let's say 300k per unit. 3 Platinum VIPs successfully cancel and rebook the same reservation at a 50% discount. This frees up 450k (for the arithmetically challenged, 3 times 300k =900k, 50% times 900k = 450k) points that can be used to compete with other owners for other reservations. Here is the key difference (and I cannot fathom why it is so difficult for people to comprehend), if there were a waitlist or other such disincentive, those 3 VIPs would not have cancelled their reservation to try to rebook it. Either they would not have made it in first place, because they intended to rent it using the 50% discount to make it competitive, and they know with a waitlist the chance for a 50% discount is non-existent, or they would just keep it to use it, because that is what they intended when they made the reservation. Either way, 450k points of developer points are not freed-up to compete with other owners for other reservations. (Is this really so hard to understand?)

With a waitlist, any Prime season cancellations are taken by owners willing to pay the full points price; no developer points are freed to compete with other owner's reservations. (I feel that I am repeating myself).

two points

1) if there are 8 reservations available after the 60 mark and Ive made this reservation for myself, instead of cancelling and re booking, I will book and cancel. and when Im done there will still be 8 reservations available

2) if there are 8 reservations available after the 60 day and my intent was to rent for a profit then I can do the same thing; book and then cancel. But the reality is; if there are 8 available reservations, and I havent rented mine, Ive made a mistake,,,its not a high demand time and I probably wont be able to rent it for the profit I want, even with my discount, so Ill probably just cancel

I may do this differently than others, but if Im dealing with a reservation Ive rented, I dont cancel and re book

How do you feel about me watching the computer for hours on end at 15-20 days before a big event and grabbing cancellations, at my discounted price, to rent? I've taken a prime week at a discounted price away from someone willing to pay full price....my bad

I know that the purpose of the discounts is to provide a incentive to the folks that spend big money with the developer. And that its intended purpose is to use up surplus inventory. That there is loophole created that allows discounts for prime weeks is an unintended side effect. I fail to see however, how that loophole hurts anyone else

I dont disagree with your math and I dont disagree about developer points, I just dont see how they make your case that when I do cancel and rebook, its done at the expense of someone else

If there is a waiting list I will lose the ability to get the discount for the prime weeks I want, but I will still get my reservations, because Im buying for ARP and I get up early. And if I dont get what I need, Illl be first on the waiting list...Ill find a way... (am I repeating myself again?) Ill find the unintended consequences and use them

 

[CO skier]

two points

1) if there are 8 reservations available after the 60 mark and Ive made this reservation for myself, instead of cancelling and re booking, I will book and cancel. and when Im done there will still be 8 reservations available

2) if there are 8 reservations available after the 60 day and my intent was to rent for a profit then I can do the same thing; book and then cancel. But the reality is; if there are 8 available reservations, and I havent rented mine, Ive made a mistake,,,its not a high demand time and I probably wont be able to rent it for the profit I want, even with my discount, so Ill probably just cancel

I may do this differently than others, but if Im dealing with a reservation Ive rented, I dont cancel and re book

How do you feel about me watching the computer for hours on end at 15-20 days before a big event and grabbing cancellations, at my discounted price, to rent? I've taken a prime week at a discounted price away from someone willing to pay full price....my bad

I know that the purpose of the discounts is to provide a incentive to the folks that spend big money with the developer. And that its intended purpose is to use up surplus inventory. That there is loophole created that allows discounts for prime weeks is an unintended side effect. I fail to see however, how that loophole hurts anyone else

I dont disagree with your math and I dont disagree about developer points, I just dont see how they make your case that when I do cancel and rebook, its done at the expense of someone else

If there is a waiting list I will lose the ability to get the discount for the prime weeks I want, but I will still get my reservations, because Im buying for ARP and I get up early. And if I dont get what I need, Illl be first on the waiting list...Ill find a way... (am I repeating myself again?) Ill find the unintended consequences and use them

Sorry, I can see that my illustration was not detailed enough to covey what I was thinking. Here are some clarifications (green italicized additions):

The point of the discussion has nothing to do with when the reservations are initially made. It has to do with what happens to the reservations, whenever they are made, after the 60-day mark. Maybe examples will illustrate the point:

8 units are available for a Prime time reservation. At 13 months, The first 8 people in line get them for full points price. They all go on their reserved vacation. Simple. No developer points are freed-up to compete with other owners.

8 units are available for a Prime time reservation. At 13 months, The first 8 people in line get them for full points price, let's say 300k per unit. At 60 days, 3 Platinum VIPs successfully cancel and rebook the same reservation at a 50% discount ...

So, for any reservations waiting to be picked-up at the 60-day mark, the 50% discount is appropriate, because this is what it is intended for. The hottests weeks will have been booked at 13 months, of course, and won't be waiting around at 60 days.

If you are on the computer, and another owner cancels their Christmas vacation or other prime week within the 60 day discount period, and you can book it for the discount, this is within the intended rules of the game. It is legitimately open inventory (the previous owner is done with it for good) that anyone can book (or that a waitlist, if in place, could pick-up automatically for another owner). The problem with the book-cancel-rebook is that the owner has no intention of cancelling (giving up for good) the reservation; they are only cancelling so that they can immediately rebook it for a discount. (The difference seems obvious to me, but there is the explanation).

I know that the purpose of the discounts is to provide a incentive to the folks that spend big money with the developer. And that its intended purpose is to use up surplus inventory. That there is loophole created that allows discounts for prime weeks is an unintended side effect. I fail to see however, how that loophole hurts anyone else

I dont disagree with your math and I dont disagree about developer points, I just dont see how they make your case that when I do cancel and rebook, its done at the expense of someone else

I can't explain how the book-cancel-rebook impacts other owners any better than I already have, and it seems pointless to repeat it yet again. A couple of people, at least, seem to have caught on to the idea. The WorldMark system seems to acknowledge that there is harm to other owners from this practice, and has already dealt with the problem on a couple of levels.

 

[markb53]

Let me see if I have got this straight.
Let say I am a platinum owner. I use 308k points and at 10 months out I book a 3br at bonnet creek. Then 60 day before the checkin date I cancel and rebook for 154k. I don't see how this part effects anyone other than me. The 3br wasn't there before the 60 day point and it is not there after I cancel and rebook. So I now have 154k canceled points so I pick a 1 BR at cypress palms. Which I wouldn't have been able to pickup except I have those canceled points. This is the part that it seem like some of you should be complaining about. That I would be competing with other owners who wanted to get Cypress Palms. The problem with what I layed out above is that the canceled points would have to be used by the end of my use year. Which means that unless the first reservation was made within the first 4 months of my use year, the second reservation would have to be made less then 10 months out. Which means I would not be getting a high demand resort or a high demand time.

One of the advantages of 60 day discount for platinum owners, is that the rest of us can rent from them at a discounted rate. If you can travel in the off season.

 

[ronparise]

I can't explain how the book-cancel-rebook impacts other owners any better than I already have, and it seems pointless to repeat it yet again. A couple of people, at least, seem to have caught on to the idea. The WorldMark system seems to acknowledge that there is harm to other owners from this practice, and has already dealt with the problem on a couple of levels.

I think I understand...so let me repeat it

Assuming Platinum ownership

If I cancel and rebook a 300000 point reservation, there are 150000 points "created" in my account that I wouldnt have otherwise had

And with those points I can compete for another prime reservation. And if not for me competing for that reservation, it would have gone to another owner

Is that the essence of your argument?

 

[ronparise]

Let me see if I have got this straight.
Let say I am a platinum owner. I use 308k points and at 10 months out I book a 3br at bonnet creek. Then 60 day before the checkin date I cancel and rebook for 154k. I don't see how this part effects anyone other than me. The 3br wasn't there before the 60 day point and it is not there after I cancel and rebook. So I now have 154k canceled points so I pick a 1 BR at cypress palms. Which I wouldn't have been able to pickup except I have those canceled points. This is the part that it seem like some of you should be complaining about. That I would be competing with other owners who wanted to get Cypress Palms. The problem with what I layed out above is that the canceled points would have to be used by the end of my use year. Which means that unless the first reservation was made within the first 4 months of my use year, the second reservation would have to be made less then 10 months out. Which means I would not be getting a high demand resort or a high demand time.

One of the advantages of 60 day discount for platinum owners, is that the rest of us can rent from them at a discounted rate. If you can travel in the off season.

Certain pairs of high demand weeks do work for this:
Early year events like Bike Fest, Presidents week skiing, Mardi Gras
Late Year events like Christmas, and New Years Eve, Sugar Bowl

and these dont have to be in pairs of high demand weeks If I can rent my high value stuff at a premium I can get anything from the "free" points,,,its all profit

 

[am1]

Wyndham does not just pay the fees on their unsold points and then let them expire. Thinking that way loses any credibility that you may have had.