[2012] Just lost my reservation when I tried to cancel & rebook

[Renny30]

What your missing is there is no inventory to book until you cancel your original reservation

Wow, that is tricky.

 

[lisa1001]

We lost a reservation Labor day weekend 2011, while trying to cancel and rebook. It wasn't an important must have reservation, so no biggie.

On important reservations, I don't play the game.

Being greedy I have booked 1, 2 and 3 bedroom units at BC for Christmas all at 1/2 points with the 2 and 3 bedrooms being upgrades as well. Is was a very nice extended family getaway.

 

[SOS8260456]

I was just thinking about this yesterday and about the "changes" that Wyndham said were coming in October. Did any changes "officially" arrive yet? Is this one of them? Maybe or maybe not.

If I use the cancel and rebook trick and another owner gets the unit, then I am fine with it. I can't stand the thought that the unit might be taken for EH or overbooked resorts (which is their (Wyndham's) fault for overbooking).

Glad you have a back up.

 

[tugger2020]

What your missing is there is no inventory to book until you cancel your original reservation

Makes sense now...thanks. Seems too risky for any reservation that you really care about (flights booked, etc).

 

[kalua]

re booking

ron well said , but I really wish you wouldn't tell all all these secrets on how to get what you want , ties up points but it works ! lol

 

[bogey21]

None of the VIP benefits have been cast in concrete and any can be reversed at any time, but I think its understandable that those that have been sold the product with something included (and have paid those big bucks) feel cheated when its taken away.

You are exactly right. Years ago when Marriott unilaterally changed their resale and rental programs which were important considerations when I decided to buy I sold my 4 Marriott Weeks in disgust. I figured if they changed those programs, they could change anything to my detriment.

George

 

[ronparise]

I was just thinking about this yesterday and about the "changes" that Wyndham said were coming in October. Did any changes "officially" arrive yet? Is this one of them? Maybe or maybe not.

If I use the cancel and rebook trick and another owner gets the unit, then I am fine with it. I can't stand the thought that the unit might be taken for EH or overbooked resorts (which is their (Wyndham's) fault for overbooking).

Glad you have a back up.

The changes you mention will be coming with "voyager" Wyndhams new reservations system. One of the changes is supposed to be the ability to make ARP reservations on line and one change we fear is a waiting list

October was the date, then it was pushed to the first of the year

Worldmark owners have also been promised Voyager and at their recent annual meeting it was announced (or so Im told) that it wont be here until sometime next year

 

[ronparise]

ron well said , but I really wish you wouldn't tell all all these secrets on how to get what you want , ties up points but it works ! lol

This is not a secret. Salesmen have been promoting it for sometime. In fact they tried it on me this past April in Las Vegas. They didnt seem surprised (nor did they make a sale) when I told them I was in a 3 bedroom at a discounted one bedroom price

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

I haven't tried it, but some have said a better "cancel and re-book" is to cancel a few minutes before online booking ends for the night, then grab it first thing in the morning when the reservation system comes online. Like others here have said, it is risky.

When I think it would not be worth it is if you're using almost all your year points. For instance, if you have 154000 points, and your reservation is 150000. Doing the cancel/re-book would give you points back, but what if you can't use those points before the end of the year? Let's say you would have 20000 points left over. You MIGHT be able to rent it out to someone who's looking for a 1 or 2 night stay somewhere. I've been trying to rent some of my points out in exchange for paying my MFs on the Last Minute Rentals, but it's not easy, since there are always those who charge less than I can.

TS

 

[jjmanthei05]

Is it possible that Wyndham or RCI put it up for rent?

I'm still trying to figure out the Wyndham points game.

If he saw the room show back up in inventory this wasn't extra holidays. If they take the inventory it just wont show back up ever. Someone else was watching and picked it up on you. I have lost probably 3 rooms over the last year. All of them were picked up within 2 seconds of when it popped back into the system and it wasn't EH because they don't rent at this resort. Some people just sit and watch especially for holiday weekends. Its probably better if you VIP to not cancel and rebook at the 60 day window wait close to 50 (but before 45). I would guess people watch at those intervals to try and snag reservations from the VIPs that are trying to get their discount points and upgrades.

Jason

 

[jjmanthei05]

I am too chicken to try to get the discount at the 60 day mark when the resort is sold out for those dates. I would rather not chance it. But I figure I have plenty enough points to not want to mess with it.

I have no issue with rebooking it if there is plenty of inventory left, and do this frequently.

We have a 4 bedroom presidential booked for spring break at Bonnet creek. To avoid this situation I actually have a 1, 3 and 4 bedroom booked to get my upgrade and discount or if I lose the 1 or the 3 then I just don't mess with the 4 bed presidential and pay full price so we have someplace to stay. If I get the 3 bedroom upgraded and then lose the 4 at least we have a 3 bedroom at discounted 1 bedroom upgrade.

Jason

 

[capital city]

I'm a little confused. If VIP's say this was what they were promised and what they paid for then why do they have to cancel and rebook within a certain window? Wouldn't they just be given the % off at any time. Sounds like a calculated risk too me. I don't know why you would be offended by someone saying its greedy, it sounds like that is exactly what it is. Having said that I would absolutely be trying it with every reservation I made if I were VIP.

To be honest as I look to buy into Wyndham resale it looks like VIP's hurt the resale market as much as anyone. It looks like they rent all the good rooms at the best times at the cheapest amount of points and then rent them for barely any profit. If it wasnt for the flexibility and having RCI last call deals I wouldnt see any advantage to owning through Wyndham even at ebay prices.

 

[jebloomquist]

The changes you mention will be coming with "voyager" Wyndhams new reservations system. One of the changes is supposed to be the ability to make ARP reservations on line and one change we fear is a waiting list

If a waiting list does happen, expect the prices in the resale market to fall even more, if that is possible. Platinum owners who expect to book and then rebook at 50% will no longer be able to do so. Some will get out of the rental business and dump their Wyndham points to get rid of the M/F burden. I personally might dump a million points if I couldn't use them to guest others.

Jim

 

[ronparise]

I'm a little confused. If VIP's say this was what they were promised and what they paid for then why do they have to cancel and rebook within a certain window? Wouldn't they just be given the % off at any time. Sounds like a calculated risk too me. I don't know why you would be offended by someone saying its greedy, it sounds like that is exactly what it is. Having said that I would absolutely be trying it with every reservation I made if I were VIP.

To be honest as I look to buy into Wyndham resale it looks like VIP's hurt the resale market as much as anyone. It looks like they rent all the good rooms at the best times at the cheapest amount of points and then rent them for barely any profit. If it wasnt for the flexibility and having RCI last call deals I wouldnt see any advantage to owning through Wyndham even at ebay prices.

VIPs get a discount on available inventory and the ability to upgrade if there is something available to upgrade into.. Thats all thats promised to VIPs today. What we are talking about is how to "game" the system and create availability in that window by canceling a reservation and immediately rebooking it. And we get upset when it doesnt work out...but That doesnt take anything away from anyone else.

VIPs dont have any advantage over anyone else when it comes to making reservations. We are up at 7 am eastern time on website (or 8 am on the phone) when the new inventory becomes available. Whether you have 100000 points or 10 million points VIP or not, you have the same chance of getting that hard to get reservation....yes I want it as cheap as I can get it and yes I do rent most of what own, But I dont see how that hurts anyone elses chances at a hard to get reservation, What I really dont get is how you think VIPs hurt the resale market. I think if it wasnt for the mega owners, there wouldnt be any market at all.

Most of us are happy owning Wyndham points, even the VIPs that paid full developer prices for what they own. Dont begrudge them a chance to get some of that money back, and dont let our whining scare you away

 

[ronparise]

If a waiting list does happen, expect the prices in the resale market to fall even more, if that is possible. Platinum owners who expect to book and then rebook at 50% will no longer be able to do so. Some will get out of the rental business and dump their Wyndham points to get rid of the M/F burden. I personally might dump a million points if I couldn't use them to guest others.

Jim

Jim

I dont think its going to happen and as you know Im putting my money where my mouth is. but if it does Ill take those million points you will dump

 

[jjmanthei05]

Jim

I dont think its going to happen and as you know Im putting my money where my mouth is. but if it does Ill take those million points you will dump

I am in your boat predicting\hoping this is true or if a waitlist is implemented it is only vaild until the 60 day mark (can't infringe on EH), I just picked up 1.2 million points tonight.

Jason

 

[capital city]

VIPs get a discount on available inventory and the ability to upgrade if there is something available to upgrade into.. Thats all thats promised to VIPs today. What we are talking about is how to "game" the system and create availability in that window by canceling a reservation and immediately rebooking it. And we get upset when it doesnt work out...but That doesnt take anything away from anyone else.

VIPs dont have any advantage over anyone else when it comes to making reservations. We are up at 7 am eastern time on website (or 8 am on the phone) when the new inventory becomes available. Whether you have 100000 points or 10 million points VIP or not, you have the same chance of getting that hard to get reservation....yes I want it as cheap as I can get it and yes I do rent most of what own, But I dont see how that hurts anyone elses chances at a hard to get reservation, What I really dont get is how you think VIPs hurt the resale market. I think if it wasnt for the mega owners, there wouldnt be any market at all.

Most of us are happy owning Wyndham points, even the VIPs that paid full developer prices for what they own. Dont begrudge them a chance to get some of that money back, and dont let our whining scare you away

Your probably absolutely right about the VIP's keeping the market up the last couple of years. They have a benefit and they bought low during the recession to take advantage of those perks. My point was when your looking to buy points and you say well if I owned I could get this week for this much but when you look for rentals you can get it for that same price or maybe a little higher. I think they are driving the market down a little now with all the cheap rentals but I absolutely dont begrudge them for trying to make some of their money back.

What I have said is nothing against VIP's at all just seeing both sides. I still plan to buy and have been unsuccessfully bidding the past couple of weeks and will continue until I land what I want at the price at want. And I plan to supplement what I get with RCI last calls but also hopefully getting in with a few VIP's that can rent me some of the harder weeks to get or extra weeks I cant afford with my points.

 

[vacationhopeful]

... I think they are driving the market down a little now with all the cheap rentals but I absolutely dont begrudge them for trying to make some of their money back...

If there are CHEAP vacations, look at Extra Holidays. Remember, any Wyndham owner can assign their booked RESERVATION(s) or FIXED WEEKs to them to rent. Owners can NOT require a minimum dollar floor and minimum night stay or notification if not rented by date. So IF you have a 7 night stay and you assign it to EH to rent it, they can rent it for you with a 40% commission plus costs (such as credit card fees - you pay those fees full while EHs collects their 40% commission as a fee) for a little as 1 (ONE) NIGHT.

You think that means, no one wanted your dates? Wrong. The first person, 6 months before checkin, could have snagged 1 day of your reservation for the 1 night rate. The other 6 nights are then "thrown away" as YOUR week is booked. And you CAN NOT find that out and won't find that out, til you get a check for $15-25 after expenses (if lucky).

Additionally, if your HOME RESORT has FIXED WEEKS ownerships and owners are not paying MFs, Extra Holidays is the "booking" agency to rent that time. Walkins and owners calling to request an extra day or two can't PAY to rent open units - as EH can't tell IF there nights available - if a partial stay was booked. And the Front Desk can tell you either.

 

[ronparise]

Your probably absolutely right about the VIP's keeping the market up the last couple of years. They have a benefit and they bought low during the recession to take advantage of those perks. My point was when your looking to buy points and you say well if I owned I could get this week for this much but when you look for rentals you can get it for that same price or maybe a little higher. I think they are driving the market down a little now with all the cheap rentals but I absolutely dont begrudge them for trying to make some of their money back.

What I have said is nothing against VIP's at all just seeing both sides. I still plan to buy and have been unsuccessfully bidding the past couple of weeks and will continue until I land what I want at the price at want. And I plan to supplement what I get with RCI last calls but also hopefully getting in with a few VIP's that can rent me some of the harder weeks to get or extra weeks I cant afford with my points.

I see your point. That there is a place to rent your vacation accommodations, at a price cheaper than owning keeps a lot of people out of the market. and one would assume that if there are fewer buyers prices should fall.

However because you and others are there to rent what we buy...we keep buying, and that serves to keep prices up. Up higher than they would be otherwise I think. Because when I need more points (like now) Im willing to pay more to get them

 

[MFT]

Everyone knows that VIPs paid plenty for their privileges, but trying to get a Christmas reservation at 50% off, when so many other owners would stand in line to pay full price ... is just greedy.

Discounts are intended for underutilized or surplus inventory, not prime time.

Where did you get this bit of information? If this were the case, than Wyndham would not post the discount on their reservation page, would they...

I don't blame VIP members for taking advantage of this option.

 

[VivianLynne]

Those discounts are available to all owners, not just VIPs. Called RESORT SPECIALS and posted on the online web pages.

 

[jjmanthei05]

Your probably absolutely right about the VIP's keeping the market up the last couple of years. They have a benefit and they bought low during the recession to take advantage of those perks. My point was when your looking to buy points and you say well if I owned I could get this week for this much but when you look for rentals you can get it for that same price or maybe a little higher. I think they are driving the market down a little now with all the cheap rentals but I absolutely dont begrudge them for trying to make some of their money back.

What I have said is nothing against VIP's at all just seeing both sides. I still plan to buy and have been unsuccessfully bidding the past couple of weeks and will continue until I land what I want at the price at want. And I plan to supplement what I get with RCI last calls but also hopefully getting in with a few VIP's that can rent me some of the harder weeks to get or extra weeks I cant afford with my points.

I have to disagree slightly. I don't think VIP's set the market, they go with what is out there. I think you have some owners who are just trying to recover MF costs so they book prime weeks and sell them at cost just to get their money back. Just look at the people over on Wyndhamowners.org that are renting out their points for at or below cost. I would think that some owners are doing the same thing with reservations. VIPs can make a go of it in the structure because of the discounts and upgrades they receive which creates their profit margin.

Jason

 

[VivianLynne]

I have to disagree slightly. I don't think VIP's set the market, they go with what is out there. I think you have some owners who are just trying to recover MF costs so they book prime weeks and sell them at cost just to get their money back. Just look at the people over on Wyndhamowners.org that are renting out their points for at or below cost. I would think that some owners are doing the same thing with reservations. VIPs can make a go of it in the structure because of the discounts and upgrades they receive which creates their profit margin.

Jason

I agree. I have seen stuff below their 50% off cost and that $99 Guest Certificate fee.

Just look at our LMR thread - and get out your Wyndham Owners Directory. Just to get any dollars.

As for those sales of 500K and UP, MANY of those appear to be Club Wyndham access deeds. Wondered if those VIPs figured out, that APR at 50+ resorts means converted fixed week deeds from the older resorts as OFF SEASON and not PRIME season. My friend has FIXED WEEKS at Wyndham Santa Barbara --- would never convert those weeks to points and has asked multiple owners while staying there in March, if an Owner? Most are also Fixed Week owners or renters from those owners. Some are VIPs who used their early 11 month window to get a STUDIO for that stay.

 

[bnoble]

Some will get out of the rental business

I suspect the number of people with a "rental business" (as opposed to sometimes renting out a reservation) is small---in the hundreds at most. That's a drop in the bucket, even if they all sold at exactly the same time, vs. the general churn that happens in a system with hundreds of thousands of owners.

VIPs can make a go of it in the structure because of the discounts and upgrades they receive which creates their profit margin.

I suspect it is also a case of a relatively inefficient/opaque market. There isn't really "one place" to go to get timeshare rentals, and unless you spend a lot of time looking, it's hard to get a sense of the whole landscape as a renter.

 

[ronparise]

I agree. I have seen stuff below their 50% off cost and that $99 Guest Certificate fee.

Just look at our LMR thread - and get out your Wyndham Owners Directory. Just to get any dollars.

As for those sales of 500K and UP, MANY of those appear to be Club Wyndham access deeds. Wondered if those VIPs figured out, that APR at 50+ resorts means converted fixed week deeds from the older resorts as OFF SEASON and not PRIME season. My friend has FIXED WEEKS at Wyndham Santa Barbara --- would never convert those weeks to points and has asked multiple owners while staying there in March, if an Owner? Most are also Fixed Week owners or renters from those owners. Some are VIPs who used their early 11 month window to get a STUDIO for that stay.

Im not sure of the point you are making about club access. i agree that this club is a dumping ground for blue weeks, but there must be lots of good stuff in there too because the maintenance fees are a reasonable $5.40 per 1000 points, incl the both the Wyndham program fee and the Clubs administrative expenses..

That National Harbor and La Belle Maison and Bonnet Creek and Canterbury are in the mix tells me that Wyndham is feeding this club with fairly low mf, udi deeds too.

I will buy as much as I can (at almost any price) at one resort for the ARP, but after that when I buy I consider both the mf and the purchase price and I calculate (estimate) a 10 year cost to own. It doesnt matter what resort. If I can get it within my parameters (and if I have the mad money to spend) Ill buy it. Recently Ive been bidding on the Access contracts (and should be the proud owner of a million points by Dec 1