[2012] Just lost my reservation when I tried to cancel & rebook

[tschwa2]

I guess the part I would object to the most if I were a Wyndham owner, would be the trick where Platinum members reserve the 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom and larger unit when they know they only intend to keep the 2 or larger unit. This keeps inventory out of the hands of regular members and even though the other units are released they become available very late and make planing family vacations difficult.

 

[lcml11]

I guess the part I would object to the most if I were a Wyndham owner, would be the trick where Platinum members reserve the 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom and larger unit when they know they only intend to keep the 2 or larger unit. This keeps inventory out of the hands of regular members and even though the other units are released they become available very late and make planing family vacations difficult.

As a probable receiptant of the leftover reservations during prime season, I think this is great. I probably would not get my Summer reservations any other way with a great discount.

 

[lcml11]

As a probable receiptant of the leftover reservations during prime season, I think this is great. I probably would not get my Summer reservations any other way with a great discount.

Not to mention, if one were greedy, add to the above a Platinum member buying large points contracts at great locations for the ARP rights and large point contracts at low maintance fee resorts that are in great shape to lower the average maintance fees in the account.

 

[gnorth16]

One of the more interesting threads recently

but to clarify,

Resale points do not count towards VIP, but if you purchase some points via direct, you can "retro" (like with starwood) the rest of your resale points?

 

[lcml11]

but to clarify,

Resale points do not count towards VIP, but if you purchase some points via direct, you can "retro" (like with starwood) the rest of your resale points?

From other posts on other threads, I understand that if one has a Platinum account, re-sale contracts can be added to it and they get the existing VIP discount. However, the re-sale points do not count as VIP eligable points when determining the account discount.

In other words, re-sale contracts can be added to an existing VIP Planinum Account. The points could then be credit pooled in mass. High value prime weeks could then be booked and then subsquently re-booked at the discount, if it works, for a 50 percent discount. These points could then be re-used for subsquent high value weeks. Do this for the prime summer resorts following it on with shorter notice prime summer or holiday reservations followed by high value winter resorts.

By accelerating point usage from future years, you get the high value weeks rent in the current year leaving the payment for these weeks to Wyndham in the form of maintance fees for future years.

Basically, you get a free loan of money from Wyndham.

 

[ronparise]

Not to mention, if one were greedy, add to the above a Platinum member buying large points contracts at great locations for the ARP rights and large point contracts at low maintance fee resorts that are in great shape to lower the average maintance fees in the account.

Im not Platinum but I guess Im greedy, I just bought 900000 points at National Harbor (low MF) and 1,000,000 at La Belle Maison for the ARP

Actually you could have had these too, they were advertised, one here on TUG and the other on RedWeek

So am I greedy and you are not, or is it something else

 

[ronparise]

From other posts on other threads, I understand that if one has a Platinum account, re-sale contracts can be added to it and they get the existing VIP discount. However, the re-sale points do not count as VIP eligable points when determining the account discount.

In other words, re-sale contracts can be added to an existing VIP Planinum Account. The points could then be credit pooled in mass. High value prime weeks could then be booked and then subsquently re-booked at the discount, if it works, for a 50 percent discount. These points could then be re-used for subsquent high value weeks. Do this for the prime summer resorts following it on with shorter notice prime summer or holiday reservations followed by high value winter resorts.

By accelerating point usage from future years, you get the high value weeks rent in the current year leaving the payment for these weeks to Wyndham in the form of maintance fees for future years.

Basically, you get a free loan of money from Wyndham.

Exactly right...Thats why Ill be spending $12000 to be platinum next year unless Voyager adds a waiting list. if that happens Ill buy another load of points with the money

 

[lcml11]

Exactly right...Thats why Ill be spending $12000 to be platinum next year unless Voyager adds a waiting list. if that happens Ill buy another load of points with the money

Plenty greedy enough, just do not have the guts to do it.

Other possable combinations exist. HI plus Smokey Mountain, Myrtle Beach plus National Harbor, Mytle Beach resorts other than Towers on the Grove plus Towers on the Grove, etc.

 

[ronparise]

I guess the part I would object to the most if I were a Wyndham owner, would be the trick where Platinum members reserve the 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom and larger unit when they know they only intend to keep the 2 or larger unit. This keeps inventory out of the hands of regular members and even though the other units are released they become available very late and make planing family vacations difficult.

I used this trick once for my own use and Ill never do it again. If it had failed I would have had 6 of us in a 1 bedroom. and an end to my marriage.

I would use this trick for rentals as long as I hadnt rented either unit

 

[CO skier]

...I can make as much as I would as a Platinum owner doing the cancel and rebook game, by just buying more points

Sure you can do as well as a Plat VIP using regular points (if you have enough). These are all regular credit reservations, so I do not know how this relates to cancel-rebook. You are first in line to get what you want. Just because you can do with regular points what a Plat VIP can do with cancel-rebook, does not make cancel-rebook any more acceptable. Here is why how the points are obtained is important, and how it might affect even you.

You show up first in line with your bucket of points and want to make 4 300k reservations at a resort that has only 4 300k units. A Plat VIP cancelled and rebooked 1.2 million points the day before and now has 600k points that he wants to use to book 2 300k rooms at the exact same resort, and he is just as skilled as you at being first in line. Let’s call it a tie. You both get two 300k units. Sure you can take the other 600k elsewhere, but you did not get the 4 rooms you wanted. Had the Plat VIP had to keep his 1.2 million locked-up due to a waitlist, he would have been out of ammo, and you would have had at least a chance at getting all 4 300k rooms.

 

[lcml11]

Sure you can do as well as a Plat VIP using regular points (if you have enough). These are all regular credit reservations, so I do not know how this relates to cancel-rebook. You are first in line to get what you want. Just because you can do with regular points what a Plat VIP can do with cancel-rebook, does not make cancel-rebook any more acceptable. Here is why how the points are obtained is important, and how it might affect even you.

You show up first in line with your bucket of points and want to make 4 300k reservations at a resort that has only 4 300k units. A Plat VIP cancelled and rebooked 1.2 million points the day before and now has 600k points that he wants to use to book 2 300k rooms at the exact same resort, and he is just as skilled as you at being first in line. Let’s call it a tie. You both get two 300k units. Sure you can take the other 600k elsewhere, but you did not get the 4 rooms you wanted. Had the Plat VIP had to keep his 1.2 million locked-up due to a waitlist, he would have been out of ammo, and you would have had at least a chance at getting all 4 300k rooms.

Cry all the way to the bank for the loser who then goes to Myrtle Beach or HI or worst case, the Winter resorts and laugh all the way to the bank again.

 

[pacodemountainside]

If that is the intent of a large point holder, it could absolutly be done. A wait list would be a great addition to this line of thinking if there were enough points to support this plan. I believe, a couple of different posters on other threads have indicated this is a very effective tactic.

A million point Platinum VIP owner could pool their future year points into the credit pool for the book, cancel, re-book trick. That would give a pool of 3 milion points available to support this project. Then, if successful, the excess points can be moved forward by the proper use of the multiple use year dates to move them forward into the next use year. This could go on year in and year out.

I gather you are against creative thinking, entrepreneurship, doing ones homework to maximize utilization and benefits of something they own.
The rules are there for all to read. Anyone wanting to give Wyndham around $170K can become a Platinum VIP and get extra perks. Really no different than companies entertain best customers at sporting events, etc. But when one chooses to give Wyndham say $170K vs buying on Internet for a few thousand they are like person waiting all night to get latest Apple gadget at crack of dawn.

In effect they are giving Wyndham lots of money up front in return for PROMISE of thousand of dollars in perks down the road. Assuming these perks are worth say $3K a year. There is no way in Hell VIP makes any sense.

Take a simple example:

Martin mega renter books five(5) red hot weeks for 200K points eack. Around day 57 at 1:00 PM he cancels and re-books. So he still has 5 units to rent, no change in reservations. However, VOI Trust is short 500K points so Franz has to take 500K points he has paid MF on and was going to rent for a ton of money and give to VOI Trust who then makes available to all 500K of us members first come, first gets.

However, Franz is not unhappy, he got around $170K up front which he has invested so no skin off his butt.

 

[lcml11]

I gather you are against creative thinking, entrepreneurship, doing ones homework to maximize utilization and benefits of something they own.
The rules are there for all to read. Anyone wanting to give Wyndham around $170K can become a Platinum VIP and get extra perks. Really no different than companies entertain best customers at sporting events, etc. But when one chooses to give Wyndham say $170K vs buying on Internet for a few thousand they are like person waiting all night to get latest Apple gadget at crack of dawn.

In effect they are giving Wyndham lots of money up front in return for PROMISE of thousand of dollars in perks down the road. Assuming these perks are worth say $3K a year. There is no way in Hell VIP makes any sense.

Take a simple example:

Martin mega renter books five(5) red hot weeks for 200K points eack. Around day 57 at 1:00 PM he cancels and re-books. So he still has 5 units to rent, no change in reservations. However, VOI Trust is short 500K points so Franz has to take 500K points he has paid MF on and was going to rent for a ton of money and give to VOI Trust who then makes available to all 500K of us members first come, first gets.

However, Franz is not unhappy, he got around $170K up front which he has invested so no skin off his butt.

I am not advocating developer purchase to rent, I will leave that to the Wyndham sales force. There are plenty of potientially greedy VIP Platinum members that this could work for and I absolutly do not recommend they partake unless they have a lot of guts and a substantial reserve of money to wether out year ebbs and flow of cash flow and the "borrowed money" becomes due. Deep pockets are needed.

Sounds like "Martin", the mega-rentor and "Frantz" in your hypothetical have worked out a legal racket.

 

[ronparise]

Sure you can do as well as a Plat VIP using regular points (if you have enough). These are all regular credit reservations, so I do not know how this relates to cancel-rebook. You are first in line to get what you want. Just because you can do with regular points what a Plat VIP can do with cancel-rebook, does not make cancel-rebook any more acceptable. Here is why how the points are obtained is important, and how it might affect even you.

You show up first in line with your bucket of points and want to make 4 300k reservations at a resort that has only 4 300k units. A Plat VIP cancelled and rebooked 1.2 million points the day before and now has 600k points that he wants to use to book 2 300k rooms at the exact same resort, and he is just as skilled as you at being first in line. Let’s call it a tie. You both get two 300k units. Sure you can take the other 600k elsewhere, but you did not get the 4 rooms you wanted. Had the Plat VIP had to keep his 1.2 million locked-up due to a waitlist, he would have been out of ammo, and you would have had at least a chance at getting all 4 300k rooms.

You are assuming that its only me and the VIP competing..There will be others. i would contend that it doesnt matter where the points come from. The points are out there and will find a home

The advantage goes to the guy with the most points, just like at Worldmark..

 

[lcml11]

You are assuming that its only me and the VIP competing..There will be others. i would contend that it doesnt matter where the points come from. The points are out there and will find a home

The advantage goes to the guy with the most points, just like at Worldmark..

And, ARP rights.

 

[chapjim]

So Jim...where will you be for New Years Eve? and will you have the nerve to cancel and re book at La Belle Maison for Super Bowl or Mardi Gras?

Actually, I'm not sure where I'll be. The La Belle Maison reservation is already rented as is the one at Bonnet Creek. Was at LBM for New Year's Eve this last winter. I prefer New Orleans a little off-peak. Much as I'd like to see Mardi Gras, I don't want to be in New Orleans while it's going in.

Easy answer to Super Bowl and Mardi Gras -- I have nothing for either one. Nothing available at the 10 month point.

My vacation aspirations took a hit the first of 2012. I left General Dynamics after their USG contract expired. Along with it went a healthy leave balance (that I sold back for almost $12,000) and a generous rate of leave accrual based on seventeen years of seniority. The government awarded to a small business and I started with a leave balance of zero and a much-reduced accrual rate.

Bummer! I liked the "work for a couple of months, take a week off" routine. Now, to take a week off, I have to sweep up what hours I have and take Leave Without Pay for the rest.

 

[chapjim]

No, the point is, "Why should anyone get a 50% discount, and free-up developer points, on reservations that are so in-demand, that with a waitlist in effect, they would always be booked using full points from owners?"

Maybe because I paid more money?

 

[lcml11]

Maybe because I paid more money?

Or maybe because VIP privledges are sold as part of the developer purchase? I think there are laws pertaining to misrepresentations, etc. You could check with Wyndham, but I think they have been sued over related issues.

 

[am1]

Where are the retail and VIP haters?

Not everything is fair. But everyone can become platinum and use their account how they want.

 

[lcml11]

Where are the retail and VIP haters?

Not everything is fair. But everyone can become platinum and use their account how they want.

Maybe they listened to reason and now have come to believe there is a role and place in the world for VIP owners". If nothing else, it gives them plenty of non-peak period availablity while the peak periods remain out of reach for the better resorts because of the huge number of points needed, even VIP discount points.

 

[ronparise]

Where are the retail and VIP haters?

Not everything is fair. But everyone can become platinum and use their account how they want.

I dont think anyone ever said they hate retail or VIP. (the sales force and the techniques they use is another matter.) Retail points are the same as my resale points and the VIP benefits are real. And the folks Ive met that have purchased retail at every level have been nice people. (they can turn mean however when they learn what they paid $30,000 for, I paid $500) I dont hate them. Pity is not the right word either, its more like envy...I wish I had that kind of money to throw away

The point is. VIP benefits are real. How I got to silver is not important, I wish I was Gold or Platinum, but knowing what I know now I wont pay full retail for the upgrade. 50% discounts even without the tricks would be great, and unlimited housekeeping and transaction fees and more guest certificates welcome. Its just that these benefits cost way too much, and they can be duplicated by buying more resale.

Having said that there are ways to get to VIP levels much cheaper than buying all your points from a Wyndham salesman at full price, There is an ad on Redweek now (at least I think its still available) where a guy is willing to work with his buyer to transfer a Platinum ownership. And there are ways to get to VIP with a Wyndham saleman with a small retail purchase, rather than a large one. PIC and assumable loans for example.. The question is ROI..if you can use what you buy and get a return on investment that works for you ...go for it. Nobody will hate you for doing it.

 

[debrinkleyusa]

Lost 4 reservations for Easter break

Just wanted to update the original thread and tell everyone I lost 4 different reservations I tried to cancel and rebook to get a discount. I am convinced that there has been a program change that grabs up every new availability for the highest demand weeks at Bonnet Creek. I would very much like to know if anyone was able to get a discount reservation at Bonnet Creek for the week before Easter or is it just EH that is grabbing all of these. I spread my cancellations over several days and different hours.

Doug B.

 

[bogey21]

Just wanted to update the original thread and tell everyone I lost 4 different reservations I tried to cancel and rebook to get a discount. I am convinced that there has been a program change that grabs up every new availability for the highest demand weeks at Bonnet Creek.

Nailed 4 times!! Doesn't sound like just bad luck.

George

 

[pacodemountainside]

I think after losing two at random times I would have called it quits.

Tends to confirm rumor that EH has on going reservation priority.

Shoot if WWW RCI subsidiary can skim inventory to rent , why not its EH.

While I am retired and can spend hours looking for cancellations, just can't believe someone could steal in very limited say 30 second window!

 

[Sandi Bo]

How frustrating (Doug). I didn't have any Easter week reservations thus haven't cancelled / rebooked any.

In general, I have definitely noticed the website is working differently. I suspect they have altered the behavior of how a canceled reservation comes back into the system. I've seen really weird things. (Now is that on purpose or bad coding, who knows)?

Did you ever see the reservation come back in the system? At another resort(not Bonnet Creek) I grabbed a room I was going to upgrade to so I had it on a 15 minute hold, timed it to the second to pick up the upgrade, saw it in the upgrade window, but got a message that the room was no longer available. I've seen things go super quickly at this resort before (it's my sisters favorite so I often watch for last minute cancellations for her). I do think that someone is REALLY fast and just sits on that location (even more than me). EH isn't taking them off the table or I wouldn't have been able to book the 1 bedroom I originally booked.

There are situations where they can keep rooms from coming back into inventory. If there has been a glitch so that they have oversold, or if there is a maintenance issue (ex: water main break) they can "recover" rooms when you cancel. In that situation you won't see them come back into the system.

Bummer on losing your reservations.