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[2012] Just lost my reservation when I tried to cancel & rebook

ronparise

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I agree. I have seen stuff below their 50% off cost and that $99 Guest Certificate fee.

Just look at our LMR thread - and get out your Wyndham Owners Directory. Just to get any dollars.

In my rather simplistic way of looking at the world, there are three kinds of timeshare landlords

Accidental landlords. These are the folks that bought too much or use too little themselves. I hate to make generalizations, but these folks dont know what they are doing and dont care if they make any money or not. They just want to recover some of their maintenance fees...Find one of these guys and you can get a really good deal on your vacation accommodations...but its tough to find them...remember they dont know what they are doing.

Wanna Be rental business owners or hobby shops Small time operators learning as they go. Most of them wont be around in a few months or years, but some will

Business owners These are the guys that have figured out how to turn a buck as a timeshare middleman, ie, renting vacation accommodations at a small premium to mf. There are I think two types of business owners here. the small, part timers and the big guys...the so called Mega-Renters

I agree with bnoble that Mega renters are few and far between.

Speaking only for myself, (and Im not telling you where I fall on my scale) I try to make as many reservations as I can at low supply locations at high demand times. I rent these at a significant premiun to mf. With the rest of what I own Im happy to break even or even lose a little. (so far this year Ive moved about 2 million points at about $4/1000 points but now Im "sold out"). By this time next year I expect to have a Platinum account so then you can probably get a real deal on the last minute stuff
 

chapjim

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Everyone knows that VIPs paid plenty for their privileges, but trying to get a Christmas reservation at 50% off, when so many other owners would stand in line to pay full price ... is just greedy.

Discounts are intended for underutilized or surplus inventory, not prime time.

Great! Another know-it-all deciding who is and isn't greedy.

I don't know what discounts were intended for (nor do you but you won't admit it). I didn't create the system or the rules. I only use them.

If I'm greedy taking the VIP discount, I guess the people who rent from me are also greedy when they prefer to pay my discounted rental fee instead of someone else's undiscounted rental fee. They should be willing to pay $2,400 instead of $1,200.
 

capital city

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Since when did greedy become the "G" word. I would think that all people that shop around and look for the absolute best deal are somewhat greedy or maybe that just isnt the right word. I'm looking to buy a certain amount of points that someone likely paid 60k for at one time and I want to pay about $3500 but I won't pay more even $3700, does that make me greedy? Maybe and I don't really care.
 

am1

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Anyone have an update on the original point. Greed and different types of rental businesses belong in other threads. What we have is a serious problem. Short-term glitch or long term change?
 

lcml11

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Anyone have an update on the original point. Greed and different types of rental businesses belong in other threads. What we have is a serious problem. Short-term glitch or long term change?
'
Am at a Wyndham resort now. They are not answering questions about Voyager or what they referred to as a new resort Wyndham has. They say check Wyndham Web page as the changes occur.

The wait list confirmation is not occurring through Member Services at this point. However, on a different note, when booking in a short notice resort through reservations, they did indicate that maybe the new changes may give an option to select whether regular points or cancelled points are being used when booking on line.
 

lcml11

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Owner Care is saying that a Wait List is not part of the upcoming changes. Wyndham Sales is saying it is now "a done deal' on Wyndham points being used for all Shell properties. They just do not know when the effective date for the change is.
 
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jjmanthei05

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Anyone have an update on the original point. Greed and different types of rental businesses belong in other threads. What we have is a serious problem. Short-term glitch or long term change?

Isolated issue (i wouldn't even call it a glitch). If it was a long term change he would have never seen it come back into the system at all. He just didn't click fast enough (slow internet connection, security question popup, ect).

Jason
 

am1

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Owner Care is saying that a Wait List is not part of the upcoming changes. Wyndham Sales is saying it is now "a done deal' on Wyndham points being used for all Shell properties. They just do not know when the effective date for the change is.

Those two departments would be the last to know.
 

am1

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Isolated issue (i wouldn't even call it a glitch). If it was a long term change he would have never seen it come back into the system at all. He just didn't click fast enough (slow internet connection, security question popup, ect).

Jason

I wish you had info or first hand knowledge that it was an isolated issue. Sadly, I have knowledge that it was not.
 

bogey21

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As an outsider looking in my observation is that encouraging the "cancel rebook trick" is a strange way for a company to do business.

George

On reflection it just dawned on me that Southwest Airlines has for years allowed you to "cancel and rebook" when fares go down.
 
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am1

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As an outsider looking in my observation is that encouraging the "cancel rebook trick" is a strange way for a company to do business.

George

But it sells VIP. Taking that away will cut their sales off. At least with any kind of informed buyer. With the uniformed they will have to dream up a new pitch.
 

capital city

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As an outsider looking in my observation is that encouraging the "cancel rebook trick" is a strange way for a company to do business.

George

On reflection it just dawned on me that Southwest Airlines has for years allowed you to "cancel and rebook" when fares go down.

Southwest actually let's you change your flight even to the same flight. No risk involved but thanks for reminding me. I just changed my flight to the same flight and saved $104.
 

jjmanthei05

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I wish you had info or first hand knowledge that it was an isolated issue. Sadly, I have knowledge that it was not.

If it shows back up then it was someone picking it up. If EH got it you would never see the inventory come back into the system which is also possible. This is first hand knowledge from doing it many many times as recently as today.

Jason
 

Sandi Bo

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I second that

I agree with Jason. If it ever showed up, someone else got it.

If it never shows up, IMO, you are in an overbooked situation or EH wanted it (bottom line there must be a way the system is flagged to not return the room to available inventory).

Situations come up, for example, last year Bonnet Creek had a water main break and was short 45 or so rooms. So 45 people cancelling and rebooking could have been disapointed. On the other hand, when the water main was fixed, a TON of rooms became available during spring break at Bonnet Creek. I picked up a great deal - as could have anyone that was looking at the time.

And yes, as crazy as it might seem, the cancel/rebook is a VIP selling point. They do forget to explain the risk involved in the cancel/rebook process. If you bring it up, they'll say 'just don't do it at day 60'. They like to gloss over the risk part, and sell the 'look how much value you can get for your points' part.

Thanks, OP, for posting. A good reminder to all what might happen. I'm glad you had a back up plan, have a great vacation!
 

NHTraveler

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I just cancelled and rebooked Wyndham Royal Vista for December 28-January 3 without a problem. After I cancelled, I went through the motions of booking for the same dates. When I hit search, it came up empty, so I did it again and the listing appeared as available and I snagged it. When cancelling, it does not show up as available right away. It takes about 10-20 seconds or so.
 

jebloomquist

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Everyone knows that VIPs paid plenty for their privileges, but trying to get a Christmas reservation at 50% off, when so many other owners would stand in line to pay full price ... is just greedy.

Discounts are intended for underutilized or surplus inventory, not prime time.




A waitlist would put an end to this nonsense.

(Maybe there is already a "double secret probationary" waitlist in effect).;)

Imagine if you will that a fellow TUGGER said to you that they had learned of a backdoor way into the Wyndham reservation system to get reservations at 50%. Gee, if they told you how to do it, would you? Who would be greedy then?

It is our victim mentality that always wants to point a finger at the other guy. The strong do. The weak complain.

I have changed my mind on the waitlist. It would be a benefit to the mega-renters. They would put in hundreds of wait calls. The regular owners would never get any. It would make the work of finding properties a piece of cake for the mega-renters. Regular owners, shoot yourself in the foot if you want a waitlist.
 
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am1

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I was told yesterday it was going to be a demand list. An actual waitlist would create a lot more work for Wyndham. Not sure how true it is.

Platinum owners can see room numbers.
Have a better search function.
Able to add guests to split reservations easier.
 

Sandy VDH

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I was told yesterday it was going to be a demand list. An actual waitlist would create a lot more work for Wyndham. Not sure how true it is.

Platinum owners can see room numbers.
Have a better search function.
Able to add guests to split reservations easier.

What exactly does a demand list do? I don't get that. Waitlist I understand.

Glad to hear about room numbers, but my number 1 new feature request would be to select the points you want to use, so I can use cancel first, then use regular.
 

am1

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What exactly does a demand list do? I don't get that. Waitlist I understand.

Apparently, when a room was last booked and how many people have requested those dates, resort room size.

I guess if you know that 10, 20 or 100 people are looking for what you need you may want to adjust what you need before that is gone as well.
 

chapjim

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I'm a little confused. If VIP's say this was what they were promised and what they paid for then why do they have to cancel and rebook within a certain window? Wouldn't they just be given the % off at any time. Sounds like a calculated risk too me. I don't know why you would be offended by someone saying its greedy, it sounds like that is exactly what it is. Having said that I would absolutely be trying it with every reservation I made if I were VIP.

To be honest as I look to buy into Wyndham resale it looks like VIP's hurt the resale market as much as anyone. It looks like they rent all the good rooms at the best times at the cheapest amount of points and then rent them for barely any profit. If it wasnt for the flexibility and having RCI last call deals I wouldnt see any advantage to owning through Wyndham even at ebay prices.

On the other hand, the value of points is enhanced if one knows he can book a reservation with unused points, get a discount, rent the reservation, cover his costs and maybe make a buck.
 

chapjim

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Just successfully re-booked two reservations: one at La Belle Maison starting 12/28, the other at Bonnet Creek starting 12/29.

Jumped off the cliff twice, parachute opened both times!
 

ronparise

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Imagine if you will that a fellow TUGGER said to you that they had learned of a backdoor way into the Wyndham reservation system to get reservations at 50%. Gee, if they told you how to do it, would you? Who would be greedy then?

It is our victim mentality that always wants to point a finger at the other guy. The strong do. The weak complain.

I have changed my mind on the waitlist. It would be a benefit to the mega-renters. They would put in hundreds of wait calls. The regular owners would never get any. It would make the work of finding properties a piece of cake for the mega-renters. Regular owners, shoot yourself in the foot if you want a waitlist.

Worldmark limits the number of waitlist requests one owner can make presumably to frustrate the "mega renter" Wyndham could do the same

I do agree, however, that "mega renters" and in my case "mega renter wanna-bes", will figure out a way to turn a buck from what we own
 

CO skier

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Worldmark limits the number of waitlist requests one owner can make presumably to frustrate the "mega renter" Wyndham could do the same

I do agree, however, that "mega renters" and in my case "mega renter wanna-bes", will figure out a way to turn a buck from what we own

WorldMark also has a rule:

There will be a 48-hour waiting period between a cancellation and a new reservation whenever the following occurs:
...
(2) The Owner is cancelling a Vacation Credit reservation and then requests to rebook that reservation as a Bonus
Time reservation;"

Bonus Time is WorldMark's version of Club Wynham's discount points, and is defined as, "... unused units are made available to
owners on a space-available basis, ..."

If book-cancel-rebook is a legitimate practice, why would WorldMark enact a rule to prohibit that very activity in their program?

There is nothing wrong with booking inventory that is available (unused) at a discount during the defined periods (50% VIP discount at 60 days, in this case),
but
cancelling* a reservation with the intent to immediately re-book it at a discount, is an unethical misrepresentation, even though there is no rule in place to specifically prohibit it.


*definition of cancel from the online Merriam Webster dictionary:

d: to call off usually without expectation of conducting or performing at a later time


Part of the Wixon lawsuit brought by some WM owners involved "Fun Time" which gave an unfair advantage to TravelShare VIP's regarding booking Bonus Time. Part of the settlement is that "Fun Time" is no longer a benefit offered under the TravelShare program. I wonder if Wyndham learned anything from that experience?
 
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ronparise

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Just successfully re-booked two reservations: one at La Belle Maison starting 12/28, the other at Bonnet Creek starting 12/29.

Jumped off the cliff twice, parachute opened both times!

So Jim...where will you be for New Years Eve? and will you have the nerve to cancel and re book at La Belle Maison for Super Bowl or Mardi Gras?
 
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