[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

LilMaggie · Jan 21, 2018

Sheeptoslaughter said:
Yes its very sad take such a nice place and strip it down to a skeleton of whAt it was. Its always been about money. Never about improving for the lessees and working with the 15,000 who had invested a substantial chunk of their money already for 40 + years. Its all about greed and look whats left. A bunch of boarded up buildings and the rest look rundown. Now its destroying another 1300+ lives to punish people for attempting to right a wrong to their contracts. Throw out the 26.82% interest, replace it with something more in line like 5%. theyve already lost years of usage,maintenance fees charged when resort was barely being used should more than cover court fees and legal fees. Hell in good faith give them a year or two back if they paid???? A little goodwill goes a long way. KW may have succeeded in the courts but as a human being running a resort sucking people life savings to punish yes punish them !!!! For having an opinion different than him. I hope it was worth it to throw 75% of it away i bet KW thought theyd all be thrilled to pay 1000'S more in fees to stay. Kw may have succeeded in collecting millions upon millions but Id be willing to bet 5 years from now most of property has been sold off, not improved and hes living life offshore somewhere with all the money he paid himself to manage. Like all lawyers who are well paid despite the outcome kw been paying himself well through all of this. All 15,000 lessees have lost their money some 2-3 times the investment, the town of fairmont has surely lost a ton of business and its left such a sour taste that nobody wants to go near that area. The economic impact is huge as there is always a ripple effect Anyone who remains has a fraction of what it once was. Thanks to all who participated in this fiasco to suck more money out of people who had already been paying in good faith. Had they not been blocked from resort while sorting it out maintenance fees would have been paid too and??? Bringing money into the Resort Perhaps,just perhaps they may have decided then to pay or get out. JMO.

We went to Radium BC last month, because like the rest of you, we love the Columbia valley. For kicks and giggles, we decided to take a drive into Sunchaser. Someone put lipstick on that pig. Riverside buildings have been painted and look not too bad. The pics on Interval world website show the updated suites, which look quite nice. So my question is...are they getting them fixed up to sell off as condos or making an attempt to look like they have gone ahead with the original renovations? Don't get me wrong, there is nothing 5 star about that property. So if we did pay NM to stay or pay MG to leave...who is going to guarantee that our monies go toward running and upgrading Fairmont/ Sunchaser Villas for all those who want to use the units in the future. Who ensures that our 40 millions dollars goes toward what we paid for?

LilMaggie · Jan 21, 2018

Been Around Awhile said:
The money that is being ordered to be paid to Northmont by the courts is out of all proportion to any harm caused by the lessees or any damage resulting from the delays in the renovation. Firstly, those who paid to stay contributed millions to the renovation plan and all of that money has yet to be spent. Thus, there is no material harm to date. Secondly, Northmont advanced and is getting judgments on an estimated plan that is both extravagant in price per-square-foot and for twice the number of units remaining within the property (#NAFR). The courts, Loo, Fitzpatrick and Young have not even taken into consideration that the property (#NAFR) is half of what it was when the Renovation Plan was advanced. Yet Northmont is not being reasonable and is charging for everything they possibly can, undermining any possible trust remaining lessees or creditors or even the Columbia Valley as a whole would have in Northmont. They aren't selling vacation intervals. Northmont is going to cash-out and dash for the Carribean. Thanks Judges.

Further, Northmont failed to act reasonably regarding expenses and mitigate the consequences of the greatly reduced occupancy of the property
(#NAFR). They made no effort to reduce or control Maintenance Fees.

Northmont made no effort to work cooperatively with the lessees, none. They said here's the plan, don't like it? Then you can pay your share or, you can pay to leave. Northmont and Northmont alone caused this protracted dispute.

The courts, the Judges, they facilitated this theft. They've made no effort whatsoever to insure the money will in fact benefit the property (#NAFR). It's their responsibility to enforce the law, not just declare a winner in the debate between lawyers.

All true and well stated...let's face it. No one cares but us! (and maybe Danielle Smith) Had we just paid to get out at the onset, we would have been much further ahead. Right now I am left wondering why we have to pay for our lawyers hubris or negligence. The settlement is...wait for it...maintenance fees for the past five years, restructuring fees, legal fees, fees to cancel lease and 27% interest...nice negotiating! So where do we go from here??

LilMaggie · Jan 21, 2018

dotbuhler · Jan 21, 2018

LilMaggie said:
All true and well stated...let's face it. No one cares but us! (and maybe Danielle Smith) Had we just paid to get out at the onset, we would have been much further ahead. Right now I am left wondering why we have to pay for our lawyers hubris or negligence. The settlement is...wait for it...maintenance fees for the past five years, restructuring fees, legal fees, fees to cancel lease and 27% interest...nice negotiating! So where do we go from here??[/QUOTE
Start a case file with the B.C. Law Society, you can contact via email and they will send you a hard copy with the case #. Legal fees paid out when M.G. was aware that Cox Taylor had already nailed the coffin shut on each of us able to proceed individually (info NOT relayed to us) indicates that he was not acting in your or my best interests. That's fraud! There is no requirement to pay him any more money, knowing this.

dotbuhler · Jan 21, 2018

Misled said:
To correct one thing mentioned in this post there are in fact consumer protection laws in Alberta that are designed to prevent unfair commercial practices such as those used by Northmont. These are detailed within the Alberta Fair Trading Act (now called the Alberta Consumer Protection Act). For example, the unilateral contract amendments and the imposition of arbitrary cancellation fees are both defined as unfair and illegal practices in Alberta legislation. The problem is that the Geldert group Lawyer’s did not use these consumer protection laws in their arguments to judge Young in Alberta. To that end the Geldert group Lawyer’s were grossly incompetent. Regardless of judge Young’s ill informed decision the fact remains that these 2 practices of Northmont are illegal under Alberta law. This egregious non compliance with Alberta law needs to be reported to your MLA, judge young, and Service Alberta who has done nothing to enforce these laws to protect consumers.

Don't forget, and this is BIG: The B.C. Law Society and the Alberta Law Society. Post a lawyer review on Yelp. Sign the petition circulating on Facebook and Twitter. Heck, start your own petition!

dotbuhler · Jan 21, 2018

CleoB said:
I've heard that Belfry had his timeshares in his company name and that his company went bankrupt so he didn't have to pay anything. Not sure if that's true but it would explain him not being around anymore.

..and it looks like we were suckered into paying his legal bills with our money....

Sheeptoslaughter · Jan 21, 2018

Gold plated paint job??? For all that $$$???

Late2Game · Jan 21, 2018

CleoB said: "I've heard that Belfry had his timeshares in his company name and that his company went bankrupt so he didn't have to pay anything. Not sure if that's true but it would explain him not being around anymore."

dotbuhler said:
..and it looks like we were suckered into paying his legal bills with our money....

Okay, so let me understand this.

Fairmont goes bankrupt and sails to the Caribbean with MILLIONS of timeshare owners 40-yr investment and maintenance fees. NO liability because they are incorporated.
Northmont buys the property for pennies on the dollar, and retains the upside/rights in the TS contracts, including right to stick lessees with capital improvement fees, 27% interest, and ability to rewrite your contract in whatever way, shape or form they wish. Like Fairmont, Northmont is also incorporated and therefore faces NO liability.
Now what I'm hearing -- and yet to be confirmed -- Belfry was able to walk from his fees because his TS contract was held by his corporate entity, and therefore NO liability
Oh, and BTW -- any lawyer worth his salt is also incorporated, ensuring they incur NO liability!

OKAY!! Looks like there is only one set of suckers here --- and that's the rest of us!

THERE'S a pattern here folks . . . .INCORPORATE!!!

I've heard plenty of sad stories here. Ones that stick in my mind are the poor souls who inherited a TS from their parents and are now STUCK with the liability. OR the people of bought their TS on eBay or Kijiji for $1.00 and are now STUCK with the liability.

HERE'S A POTENTIAL SOLUTION:
What if some entrepreneur was to start up a business -- a LLC - LIMITED LIABILITY CORPORATION -- and BUY all of our timeshares for a small fee. Perhaps $1.00 would do. They may also need to charge us a small one-time "facilitation fee" of say $250 to cover the registration transfer and so forth. BUT WE ARE NOW EX-TS LESSEES, with NO LIABILITY. And a year or two from now the LLC goes under with NO LIABILITY either. NO PROBLEM!!

COULD WE DO THAT?? Don't think for one moment Northnmont wouldn't do this if they were in our shoes!!

.

DisgustedinWA · Jan 21, 2018

i would pay up my delinquency if I knew where the money is going. I'd pay money to find out where the money would go, if we can force an owner's oversight committee, can we hire a new trustee and manager with 51% of the owners, would NM have any votes if they're not paying maintenance fees ? This would take a resident with the time and energy to spearhead hiring a knowledgeable attorney to guide us through this process. Maybe we could get an injunction to delay this "settlement" until we can get an alternate legal opinion of this option. Then we would have a real choice to pay to stay or pay to go. We've been out lawyered, so the only hope I see is working from the inside for change. It seems like we could have a nice resort with all the money being raised. The reit would have to wait until our leases expire to cash in.

MarcieL · Jan 21, 2018

Good idea but we cannot sell our T.S. without the approval of Northmont. Incorporate is definitely the way to go, put the company into bankruptcy and walk away, after we've paid the legal fees. This entire scam has put people into personal bankruptcy, seniors on fixed incomes having to take out loans, mtge their homes, cash in RRSP's all in the name of greed. This is happening in Canada, folks un believable.

LilMaggie · Jan 21, 2018

Late2Game said:
CleoB said: "I've heard that Belfry had his timeshares in his company name and that his company went bankrupt so he didn't have to pay anything. Not sure if that's true but it would explain him not being around anymore."

Okay, so let me understand this.

Fairmont goes bankrupt and sails to the Caribbean with MILLIONS of timeshare owners 40-yr investment and maintenance fees. NO liability because they are incorporated.

Northmont buys the property for pennies on the dollar, and retains the upside/rights in the TS contracts, including right to stick lessees with capital improvement fees, 27% interest, and ability to rewrite your contract in whatever way, shape or form they wish. Like Fairmont, Northmont is also incorporated and therefore faces NO liability.

Now what I'm hearing -- and yet to be confirmed -- Belfry was able to walk from his fees because his TS contract was held by his corporate entity, and therefore NO liability

Oh, and BTW -- any lawyer worth his salt is also incorporated, ensuring they incur NO liability!

OKAY!! Looks like there is only one set of suckers here --- and that's the rest of us!

THERE'S a pattern here folks . . . .INCORPORATE!!!

I've heard plenty of sad stories here. Ones that stick in my mind are the poor souls who inherited a TS from their parents and are now STUCK with the liability. OR the people of bought their TS on eBay or Kijiji for $1.00 and are now STUCK with the liability.

HERE'S A POTENTIAL SOLUTION:
What if some entrepreneur was to start up a business -- a LLC - LIMITED LIABILITY CORPORATION -- and BUY all of our timeshares for a small fee. Perhaps $1.00 would do. They may also need to charge us a small one-time "facilitation fee" of say $250 to cover the registration transfer and so forth. BUT WE ARE NOW EX-TS LESSEES, with NO LIABILITY. And a year or two from now the LLC goes under with NO LIABILITY either. NO PROBLEM!!

COULD WE DO THAT?? Don't think for one moment Northnmont wouldn't do this if they were in our shoes!!

.

I love the way you think... So does that mean that NM would have to sue the LLC to get any money? Is that even legal...bahaha?!

fairmontlovers · Jan 21, 2018

I made an inquiry with MG if we could save a few dollars of not paying the exit fee and only pay for the original renovation fee and also outstanding maintenance fees. My thought on this is that they should not be able to charge 26.8% interest on the renovation project since they have not done any further renovations. How do you charge interest for work not done? I was told that Northwynd will not allow this, getting back in is not an option. So now all of a sudden we are NOT delinquent owners? How can they on one hand refuse to allow us to pay up to get back in to use the remainder of our lease, and on the other hand threaten to charge for 2018 maintenance fees if we don't pay by Feb 15? This defies logic and indicates to me that this is purely a cash grab.

Been Around Awhile · Jan 21, 2018

Late2Game said:
CleoB said: "I've heard that Belfry had his timeshares in his company name and that his company went bankrupt so he didn't have to pay anything. Not sure if that's true but it would explain him not being around anymore."

Okay, so let me understand this.

Fairmont goes bankrupt and sails to the Caribbean with MILLIONS of timeshare owners 40-yr investment and maintenance fees. NO liability because they are incorporated.

Northmont buys the property for pennies on the dollar, and retains the upside/rights in the TS contracts, including right to stick lessees with capital improvement fees, 27% interest, and ability to rewrite your contract in whatever way, shape or form they wish. Like Fairmont, Northmont is also incorporated and therefore faces NO liability.

Now what I'm hearing -- and yet to be confirmed -- Belfry was able to walk from his fees because his TS contract was held by his corporate entity, and therefore NO liability

Oh, and BTW -- any lawyer worth his salt is also incorporated, ensuring they incur NO liability!

OKAY!! Looks like there is only one set of suckers here --- and that's the rest of us!

THERE'S a pattern here folks . . . .INCORPORATE!!!

I've heard plenty of sad stories here. Ones that stick in my mind are the poor souls who inherited a TS from their parents and are now STUCK with the liability. OR the people of bought their TS on eBay or Kijiji for $1.00 and are now STUCK with the liability.

HERE'S A POTENTIAL SOLUTION:
What if some entrepreneur was to start up a business -- a LLC - LIMITED LIABILITY CORPORATION -- and BUY all of our timeshares for a small fee. Perhaps $1.00 would do. They may also need to charge us a small one-time "facilitation fee" of say $250 to cover the registration transfer and so forth. BUT WE ARE NOW EX-TS LESSEES, with NO LIABILITY. And a year or two from now the LLC goes under with NO LIABILITY either. NO PROBLEM!!

COULD WE DO THAT?? Don't think for one moment Northnmont wouldn't do this if they were in our shoes!!

.

You know what really sucks? We have no say in them changing our contract but, they can deny any title transfer by a lessee.

aden2 · Jan 21, 2018

I was checking the BANKRUPTCY and INSOLVENT ACT for Alberta. It is a crime to be selling goods or services when you have declared bankruptcy or being insolvent . Therefore anyone that bought in 2009-10 it was illegal for Fairmont to be conducting business without disclosure!

LilMaggie · Jan 21, 2018

aden2 said:
I was checking the BANKRUPTCY and INSOLVENT ACT for Alberta. It is a crime to be selling goods or services when you have declared bankruptcy or being insolvent . Therefore anyone that bought in 2009-10 it was illegal for Fairmont to be conducting business without disclosure!

That would be great if someone would uphold that law. I was wondering if a person could terminate the contract for breach or fraud or something.

Tanny13 · Jan 21, 2018

fairmontlovers said:
I made an inquiry with MG if we could save a few dollars of not paying the exit fee and only pay for the original renovation fee and also outstanding maintenance fees. My thought on this is that they should not be able to charge 26.8% interest on the renovation project since they have not done any further renovations. How do you charge interest for work not done? I was told that Northwynd will not allow this, getting back in is not an option. So now all of a sudden we are NOT delinquent owners? How can they on one hand refuse to allow us to pay up to get back in to use the remainder of our lease, and on the other hand threaten to charge for 2018 maintenance fees if we don't pay by Feb 15? This defies logic and indicates to me that this is purely a cash grab.

Getting back in is not an option?? If you haven't signed the settlement agreement, then you are still an owner. And, if you pay your outstanding account, including the interest and costs to be determined, then you should have full use of your timeshare. If not, Northmont is in default. It truly does defy logic and it's hard to believe that MG, as representative of this group, would pass on this kind of information.

LilMaggie · Jan 21, 2018

Tanny13 said:
Getting back in is not an option?? If you haven't signed the settlement agreement, then you are still an owner. And, if you pay your outstanding account, including the interest and costs to be determined, then you should have full use of your timeshare. If not, Northmont is in default. It truly does defy logic and it's hard to believe that MG, as representative of this group, would pass on this kind of information.

I defies logic indeed!

Scammed! · Jan 21, 2018

Bottom line we need a lawyer to bring this all before The Honourable Judge Young. Easier said then done. Funny I received a letter from an MLA that stated we should find a lawyer to represent us and call the law society. I emailed back and mentioned that we are unable to find a lawyer which we find unusual. Never did hear back. It's almost like an email went out to all lawyers to disregard any timeshare calls, kind of like how the news was told the same......funny how that is....now who would do that? :shrug:

Late2Game · Jan 21, 2018

Scammed! said:
Bottom line we need a lawyer to bring this all before The Honourable Judge Young. Easier said then done. Funny I received a letter from an MLA that stated we should find a lawyer to represent us and call the law society. I emailed back and mentioned that we are unable to find a lawyer which we find unusual. Never did hear back. It's almost like an email went out to all lawyers to disregard any timeshare calls, kind of like how the news was told the same......funny how that is....now who would do that?

AMAZING EH? Well, maybe not. Lots of folks here have said "let's get a lawyer" and yet to no avail. Why, you say? Perhaps for the very same reason 3-4 years ago we could only find the ONE lawyer to take this on. Perhaps because the odds are not on our side now, and perhaps they never were 3-4 years ago either.

Law firms are a business, and they are generally open to bringing on new business if there's an opportunity to make a case that will benefit the client. What are the odds they are ALL too busy these days and don't want any new clients? I'd suggest any lawyer that scratched the surface of this TUGBBS forum and saw the lynch mob forming would just keep on walking . . . . just sayin'.

BTW, there was ONE lawyer who offered his services 3-4 years ago, and we all followed him like the children that followed the "Pied Piper".
.

CleoB · Jan 21, 2018

Been Around Awhile said:
The money that is being ordered to be paid to Northmont by the courts is out of all proportion to any harm caused by the lessees or any damage resulting from the delays in the renovation. Firstly, those who paid to stay contributed millions to the renovation plan and all of that money has yet to be spent. Thus, there is no material harm to date. Secondly, Northmont advanced and is getting judgments on an estimated plan that is both extravagant in price per-square-foot and for twice the number of units remaining within the property (#NAFR). The courts, Loo, Fitzpatrick and Young have not even taken into consideration that the property (#NAFR) is half of what it was when the Renovation Plan was advanced. Yet Northmont is not being reasonable and is charging for everything they possibly can, undermining any possible trust remaining lessees or creditors or even the Columbia Valley as a whole would have in Northmont. They aren't selling vacation intervals. Northmont is going to cash-out and dash for the Carribean. Thanks Judges.

Further, Northmont failed to act reasonably regarding expenses and mitigate the consequences of the greatly reduced occupancy of the property
(#NAFR). They made no effort to reduce or control Maintenance Fees.

Northmont made no effort to work cooperatively with the lessees, none. They said here's the plan, don't like it? Then you can pay your share or, you can pay to leave. Northmont and Northmont alone caused this protracted dispute.

The courts, the Judges, they facilitated this theft. They've made no effort whatsoever to insure the money will in fact benefit the property (#NAFR). It's their responsibility to enforce the law, not just declare a winner in the debate between lawyers.

"It's their responsibility to enforce the law, not just declare a winner in the debate between lawyers"
You are so right about that. I couldn't have said it better.

Living Real · Jan 21, 2018

fairmontlovers said:
I made an inquiry with MG if we could save a few dollars of not paying the exit fee and only pay for the original renovation fee and also outstanding maintenance fees. My thought on this is that they should not be able to charge 26.8% interest on the renovation project since they have not done any further renovations. How do you charge interest for work not done? I was told that Northwynd will not allow this, getting back in is not an option. So now all of a sudden we are NOT delinquent owners? How can they on one hand refuse to allow us to pay up to get back in to use the remainder of our lease, and on the other hand threaten to charge for 2018 maintenance fees if we don't pay by Feb 15? This defies logic and indicates to me that this is purely a cash grab.

Hi, I'm new on the site, but a lessee, and feeling like this, this is just a cash grab. The settlement offer doesn't make sense to me, we gave up the leverage of blocking the downsizing of the resort for this? I consulted legally on my personal situation and was asked why this didn't go to the Supreme Court of Canada. With the uncertainty and confusion around timeshares it was thought it would have been a great opportunity. If I were a rich man.........

Living Real · Jan 21, 2018

MarcieL said:
Good idea but we cannot sell our T.S. without the approval of Northmont. Incorporate is definitely the way to go, put the company into bankruptcy and walk away, after we've paid the legal fees. This entire scam has put people into personal bankruptcy, seniors on fixed incomes having to take out loans, mtge their homes, cash in RRSP's all in the name of greed. This is happening in Canada, folks un believable.

Yes, having to cash in RRSPs, money I saved for those extras in my senior years, thought I had my vacationed covered, promises of great vacations at that day pricing, oh well, karma.......

ecwinch · Jan 21, 2018

Been Around Awhile said:
But they are the same entity for the purposes of the contract, are they not? Otherwise, why does the contract survive the bankruptcy? Is Northmont not due the same rights under the contract that were due Fairmont? Is Northmont not still obligated to deliver the same elements of the contractual exchange as was Fairmont? The lessees certainly are.

I think the bankruptcy court made a grievous mistake not insuring 18,000 interests were represented during these deliberations.

In terms of the contractual rights/obligations explicitly stated in the lease/VIA, it is true that Northmont has assumed those obligations/rights. But Northmont did not assume any of liabilities of Fairmont. The court explicitly states this in para 161 of the JEKE v Northmont

[161] The Foreclosure Agreement also specifically addressed which Fairmont liabilities were being assumed, or more importantly, not being assumed. The following definition from the Foreclosure Agreement applies: “Fairmont Retained Liabilities" means each and every obligation, indebtedness (Including all of the debt obligations, trade payables and other liabilities related to the ownership or operation of the Fairmont Foreclosed Assets, to Fairmont or to the Fairmont Business) or other liability or accrued liability of Fairmont and whether existing or contingent, in tort or by way of any contract, permit, licence or other agreement, any deed or instrument, any judgement order of a court or other authority having jurisdiction, any statute, regulation, order-in-council, bylaw, policy or other decision of act of any Authority, any rule or operation of law or in any other way arising, whether similar to any of the foregoing or otherwise, but excludes any liabilities expressly assumed by the Creditor pursuant to section 2.3(c). (para. 1.1(zzz))

Scammed! · Jan 21, 2018

A big week ahead....don't stop.

MarcieL · Jan 21, 2018

Hi, I'm new on the site, but a lessee, and feeling like this, this is just a cash grab. The settlement offer doesn't make sense to me, we gave up the leverage of blocking the downsizing of the resort for this? I consulted legally on my personal situation and was asked why this didn't go to the Supreme Court of Canada. With the uncertainty and confusion around timeshares it was thought it would have been a great opportunity. If I were a rich man.........

Was there ever any doubt it is just a cash grab? We were kept hanging with the promise of a class action. We were then told it would take too long and imagine what our invoices would be by then?? Were you consulted, nor was I, however considering the history, perhaps a wise decision. The Supreme court probably a good idea with different representation!