[2008] Southcape Resort

[tombo]

Sorry Tombo

I take it from your posts that you will continue to abuse Southcape owners who don't agree with you. I still don't understand why you don't want the Southcape thread to be used by Southcape owners. Let us have a dialog and stay out of it since it doesn't concern you.

When you no longer offer Festiva points at your resort, and when you no longer use outfield Mktg for sales, then I will no longer post anything else here.

We know Festiva, we know what they do to resorts and owners with their upgrades, assessments, increased MF's, and total control of the board taking all rights from owners and placing themselves as the only choice for the resort's mgt company. We will not stand by and let people get ripped off by Festiva and/or Outfield, we will post warnings to all who will listen.

You chose those horrible companies to do business with, and as long as you continue to do business with them we will continue to tell others what they have done and are doing at other resorts including one of mine.

 

[ecwinch]

Sorry Tombo

I take it from your posts that you will continue to abuse Southcape owners who don't agree with you. I still don't understand why you don't want the Southcape thread to be used by Southcape owners. Let us have a dialog and stay out of it since it doesn't concern you.

Cliff,

If you want a private forum for Southcape owners, that should be a fairly easy thing to add to the existing Southcape website. This is public forum, and is designed to be used by timeshare owners to communicate with other timeshare owners. Forums are not limited to only owners at/in a particular resort or system. It benefits owners to hear the opinions and experiences of owners at other resorts regarding issues of HOA governance. That is what TUG is all about.

 

[tombo]

Cliff,

If you want a private forum for Southcape owners, that should be a fairly easy thing to add to the existing Southcape website. This is public forum, and is designed to be used by timeshare owners to communicate with other timeshare owners. Forums are not limited to only owners at/in a particular resort or system. It benefits owners to hear the opinions and experiences of owners at other resorts regarding issues of HOA governance. That is what TUG is all about.

Cliff does not actually want an owners forum, if he did it would be easy to do as you said. Simply let every owner register with a password and post the site in the newsletter and at the resort. If one or two unhappy owners from TUG got access to ALL of the Southscape owners by way of an owners only forum initiated by Cliff, he would have a riot on his hands. I would love to be able to read the posts on that forum even though I couldn't contribute since I am not an owner. Heck I would pay to join that forum.

 

[NEVMSLLC]

The problem is, Eric, that when Southcape owners do come and and try to post they get flamed by Tombo and others and I don't like it. I want to hear from everyone. Unfortunately, what I see here is people like Tombo who, most of the time, doesn't know what he's talking about. I fully realize that Tombo has a right to air his paranoid fantasies and i don't have a problem with that. Most of the time it's kind of amusing. What I do object to is his (and others) rude and abusive behavior to people who don't agree with him. He has an absolute right to respectfully disagree with people but that's not what he does. Read his posts. I find them to be embarrassing.

FYI, we are planning a private owner's area on both the Southcape and Sandcastle websites. I think it's important even though you and Tombo wouldn't be able to participate.

 

[tombo]

The problem is, Eric, that when Southcape owners do come and and try to post they get flamed by Tombo and others and I don't like it. I want to hear from everyone. Unfortunately, what I see here is people like Tombo who, most of the time, doesn't know what he's talking about. I fully realize that Tombo has a right to air his paranoid fantasies and i don't have a problem with that. Most of the time it's kind of amusing. What I do object to is his (and others) rude and abusive behavior to people who don't agree with him. He has an absolute right to respectfully disagree with people but that's not what he does. Read his posts. I find them to be embarrassing.

FYI, we are planning a private owner's area on both the Southcape and Sandcastle websites. I think it's important even though you and Tombo wouldn't be able to participate.

Don't be embarassed for me, be embarassed for yourself. You have been caught in many false statements here.

You post that you don't do business with Outfield and then you post that you and Outfield jointly own NEVS which makes you business partners. In fact in one post you state that for you to do business with Outfiled would be innapropriate. Then we find out that you and outfield are business partners which means that you have to be doing something you yourself described as inappropriate. That should be embarassing.

You state that Outfield doesn't have it's office in Texas where FIG said it was located, but then it is shown that the Texas address FIG posted is the exact same address filed with the state by you and Outfield.After he pasted the address straight from your statement to the State Secretary you had no more comments. Kind of embarassing huh?

You act like you are on top of lies made by Outfield and you are handling it, yet the same people who have trained all of the sales people you fired are still training the new hires. Could those guys actually have been fired due to lack of sales rather than lack of ethics? If you want to fix it get rid of the top guys like Steve who has been specifically noted by several on the web as the guy who came to their homes and told them lies. You still post here that you are not going to stand for poor sales behavior as you still use the same company and trainers that have caused you problems in the past. I would be embarassed to keep defending outfield's actions.

I could go on but the major embarassment I would feel if I was you is when you acted offended that myself and others feel that you might be posting a lot of the new guest spots yourself (or having others do it). You indignantly proclaimed that you don't have to hide behind fake names. Then I showed you where you joined SOU13's group under the fake name of capeguitarguy which you denied when confronted on this forum. Then capeguitarguy is shown to absolutelly be you. That has to be embarassing and I assume it bothers you since out of all of the responses you have made rebutting me, you made none about that after I linked the specific posts where you denied that capeguitarguy was you, and the posts where it was proven to be you.

If you aren't embarassed by these and other statements you have told that weren't true, then I understand why you aren't embarassed to be doing business with Outfield and Festiva.

 

[london]

This Thread Has Run Its Course

I think this thread has run its course, why because now it is constantly personal attacks from one poster to the others.

Probably only a very small percentage of owners at Sandcastle, even go on this board.

Most likely, many Tuggers are following it, just to see who attacks who in the next post.

Give me a break..........

 

[tombo]

I think this thread has run its course, why because now it is constantly personal attacks from one poster to the others.

Probably only a very small percentage of owners at Sandcastle, even go on this board.

Most likely, many Tuggers are following it, just to see who attacks who in the next post.

Give me a break..........

Why shut the thread? If someone doesn't like the direction it has taken then they can simply not read it anymore.

 

[Sou13]

I take issue with that!

Sorry Tombo

I take it from your posts that you will continue to abuse Southcape owners who don't agree with you. I still don't understand why you don't want the Southcape thread to be used by Southcape owners. Let us have a dialog and stay out of it since it doesn't concern you.

Excuse me, but this discussion was started in 2008 by a non-owner who wanted info about Southcape Resort. When he found out about the points conversion campaign or whatever you want to call it he decided against buying a week.

Now comes Cliff "capeguitarguy" Hagberg trying to chase away anyone who knows anything about Festiva and Outfield Marketing and Cliff "capeguitarguy" Hagberg and he has the audacity to try to chase them off this discussion board!

I was so gratified to see so many posts to the Sandcastle discussion that I could let his suggestion that I didn't belong there because I'm not an owner slide. The truth is that I wish I were not a Southcape owner since NEVS took over and I'm not alone. I missed my opportunity to get out before forking over one cent in 2009 because we were all so satisfied with our previous situation that we never even bothered to find out how to get out while the getting was good!

Now I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm hearing from owners who want my advice and all I can do is tell them what happened and is happening to me. I was able to use 3 days of my 3/4 split because I had asked for a payment plan for the special assessment and didn't object to $100 a month. That meant that I would be able to stay in my reserved unit over the Memorial Day weekend.

While I was at Southcape I learned from another long-time float week owner that he was paying only $50 a month, so I reasoned that I should really be paid up until August 1. But when I notified the resort that I was withholding further payments because the work for which the payments were going was not being done and nearly 1/2 of it might be unnecessary at this time, I got notified by Cliff "capeguitarguy" Hagberg that I would be unable to use my reserved time unless I had paid in full.

It gets worse. Another red week owner wants to bring me to Southcape to go over the books so that I can satisfy myself that the money I'm expected to fork over to Southcape for what may be a worthless float week is indeed being spent on necessary repairs to the resort and not for repairs to Sandcastle! But Dictator Hagberg won't allow me to come with her because I am "delinquent" in my "agreement" to pay the Special Assessment in addition to the increased Maintenance Fee!

I have put many more hours into this Southcape discussion than NEVMSLLC has and his time would be better spent informing the more than 1000+ owners who don't know about TUG what's really going on!

 

[Carolinian]

WRONG! What is happening at Southcape is that a pack of sharks is trying to swallow a resort and scam the hapless owners. I don't own there, but I feel their pain, because a similar pack of sharks, Club Leisure Group, is trying to take over a resort where I own a couple of weeks in South Africa. It is exactly the same MO and it needs to be stopped dead in its tracks both places. I have read the stories of the same fate befalling resorts in the Canary Islands and others in South Africa. Tombo and I have crossed swords on some other issues involving RCI, but he is right on the money on this one.

I think this thread has run its course, why because now it is constantly personal attacks from one poster to the others.

Probably only a very small percentage of owners at Sandcastle, even go on this board.

Most likely, many Tuggers are following it, just to see who attacks who in the next post.

Give me a break..........

 

[Carolinian]

Tombo, if you had been at the annual meeting where this was discussed at length, you would have seen that almost all of the owners at the meeting didn't want their information released to anyone. Several threatened to sue the resort if their information was released. Just FYI

You are the one who needs to worry about being sued for violating corporate law that requires you to release the list to a proper request by an owner. The reason you refuse to do so is because you want to continue your own little dictatorship over the HOA. You want to keep owners from contacting each other and sharing information.

There was once a timeshare developer with a similar mentality on the NC Outer Banks, known as First Flight Developers. Within a short period of time, they got their butts kicked out of all of their resorts on the Outer Banks after concerned owners committees were organized and obtained lawyers. Indeed, they had to sign over all of the developer units to the HOA's and in one case had to pay the HOA a six figure sum in cash. I have owned at three resorts built by First Flight, and all of them have been run much better after owners got control and kicked First Flight out the door.

These owners at your resorts are just beginning to fight! More power to them!

 

[tombo]

WRONG! What is happening at Southcape is that a pack of sharks is trying to swallow a resort and scam the hapless owners. I don't own there, but I feel their pain, because a similar pack of sharks, Club Leisure Group, is trying to take over a resort where I own a couple of weeks in South Africa. It is exactly the same MO and it needs to be stopped dead in its tracks both places. I have read the stories of the same fate befalling resorts in the Canary Islands and others in South Africa. Tombo and I have crossed swords on some other issues involving RCI, but he is right on the money on this one.

It is nice being on the same side as you for at least this one issue. You are always knowledgable and thorough with your posts. Though I don't always agree with your posts as you know from our debates, I do always respect them.

This forum has gotten more personal because facts are very hard to defend. It is easier for Cliff to call me paranoid, delusional, uninformed, and try to get me removed for alleged rude posts than it is to defend facts. Several here (including Carolinian who often disagrees with me) have posted support of my posts. I have seen no one with a TUG track record post that Cliff is doing a great job running Sandcastle or Southscape and none with any significant number of TUG posts defending Outfield or Festiva. Several TUGGERS with long track records who I trust and respect came to my defense. I don't need people to come to my defense when I am attacked, but it is nice that some did. Thanks.

 

[Sou13]

Has this discussion had anything to do with it?

I've been checking the database at the Barnstable County Capeview Internet Access almost daily and it took forever for the Southcape conversions to be updated since May 12, 2009, at which time there were over 200 but between March and May there were only about 50.

Today it's been updated and as of July 7 there have been less than 10!

While I've never been able to come up with the exact # of summer weeks have been converted to Festiva points, I can safely say there aren't many and most of those conversions took place before Festiva was registered to do business in Massachusetts!

 

[Sou13]

A puzzling conversion

It appears that a previous owner of a "red" week was somehow able to convert it to Festiva points even though the week she now owns is Week 9!

The record shows that she signed off on week 38 in May but then signed it over to InterCity Escrow in July! Puzzling, isn't it?

 

[Sou13]

Another unwelcome change

It looks as though it's time to redo my signature as the wonderful new website we've been promised no longer has a link to the Master Deed.

So now it's back to the task of scanning our downloaded copies and making them available to owners who request them. This may mean breaking it up into 10MB segments in order to be able to email them. I tried saving it to a Yahoo! Group file and wasn't even able to download 10MB!

The Master Deed that has disappeared is from 1982. Many changes have taken place and many of the changes taking place at Southcape are in violation of the original Master Deed.

If anyone has the ability to download the program needed for viewing deeds, go to Barnstable County Capeview Internet Access and search for Book 3526 Page 001, Book 3526 Page 52, and Book 3526 Page 111.

Southcape Condo II owners can find the Declaration of Trust for Southcape II in Book 5937 Page 135.

Don't we all just love NEVS?

 

[Carolinian]

Your group needs to get some legal advice as to how to proceed. At the First Flight resorts, owners committees were formed and solicited contributions to their legal fund. I saw a website of an owners group that is fighting Celebrity, an entity that operates a lot like Festiva, and they are doing the same. I bet a consultation as to what your options are and what they would cost would be in the neighborhood of $500 or so. You really need to force Hagberg's hand on his stall tactics on the membership list. In North Carolina, some attorneys even offer free initial consultations, often time limited (15 minutes or so), as they find it is a good way to get cases that will more than pay for the free consultation. The best bet is to find a Massachusetts attorney who is a timesharer and might do a few things pro bono or for a lesser fee.

I really wonder if Hagberg has gotten real legal advice. Surely any lawyer would have pointed out to him his responsibilities under corporate law to provide the membership list. Also, any lawyer I know would have warned him about having Outfield people on the resort boards which would 1) possibly tie them to Hagberg, and 2) give them fiduciary responsibilities as to members.

You also might want to ask a Massachusetts lawyer about whether a corporate derivative suit may be appropriate, essentially where members sue the officers / directors on behalf of the corporation to secure the interests of the corporation.

 

[ecwinch]

The problem is, Eric, that when Southcape owners do come and and try to post they get flamed by Tombo and others and I don't like it. I want to hear from everyone. Unfortunately, what I see here is people like Tombo who, most of the time, doesn't know what he's talking about. I fully realize that Tombo has a right to air his paranoid fantasies and i don't have a problem with that. Most of the time it's kind of amusing. What I do object to is his (and others) rude and abusive behavior to people who don't agree with him. He has an absolute right to respectfully disagree with people but that's not what he does. Read his posts. I find them to be embarrassing.

FYI, we are planning a private owner's area on both the Southcape and Sandcastle websites. I think it's important even though you and Tombo wouldn't be able to participate.

While I do not agree with the intensity that new members who post to this thread are subjected to, I do understand that Tombo is just attempting to ensure that shills are not used to advance self-serving opinions.

I do agree that new posters should be given the benefit of the doubt, and a rush to judgement should not be made.

 

[Carolinian]

The other thing I would do is follow the money. Access to membership lists, meeting facilities, the right to solicit onsite, etc. are valuable. What is the HOA receiving for them? Or does it all goes into NEVS pocket? This is a valuable corporate asset of the HOA. They should be getting a substantial cut of any conversion fees or in the alternative rent and other fees for use of those items and facilities. This is not an asset that belongs to the management, but to the HOA. Where is the money going?

 

[JackB62]

New posters

On another board we used to call new posters who appeared to be contradictory to the mainstream posters, "trolls."

Of course you could recognize the troll by his or her incendiary or conflicting opinion. Trolls like to sit back after making such a statement and watch the action.

 

[JackB62]

I am a new poster

Although I didn't really change my screen name and re-register,
I thought I'd mention that I just spent my week at Southcape and it was a wonderful experience.

I met with someone who wanted to give me a bunch of vacation points and all I had to do was sign over my worthless timeshare deed.

I just want to say thanks to NEVSMLLC for their masterful pillaging of the Southcape resort.

 

[wfweinstein]

On another board we used to call new posters who appeared to be contradictory to the mainstream posters, "trolls."

Of course you could recognize the troll by his or her incendiary or conflicting opinion. Trolls like to sit back after making such a statement and watch the action.

Good grief! You even have a derogatory name for new posters who don't agree with you????

 

[Fig]

Good grief! You even have a derogatory name for new posters who don't agree with you????

Umm..."troll" is a standard internet term that has been around for years. You can look it up. You seem pretty "new." Should we be welcoming you to the board or the internet in general? So I say "welcome, welcome" to cover both.

 

[CIC3]

Southcape Stay

Hi All,

Just got back from my week stay at Southcape and have some observations and concerns:

1. Upon check in, people who had not yet meant with anyone to learn about "the updates" at the resort were directed to a woman who was waiting on the sofa in the clubhouse. She was setting up appointments for the points conversion sell, but when people asked her what the meeting was about, she made it sound so exciting by saying "we'll be telling you about all the updates at the resort." We were not shuffled over to see the woman since we already had the "updates" meeting at our home.

2. On my way to the pool one day, a woman had just left her "update" meeting and was so upset that they were trying to take her 2 red weeks and give her points in return, plus she had to pay them to do so. And she would have to pick her weeks every year, thus she loses her guarantee of having her fixed July weeks. She attended the annual meeting and asked if anything has been done in terms of owners getting on the Board of Trustees. So on behalf of numerous owners, I ask Cliff if you are reading this, why do we have to wait until the end of the year to appoint owners to represent us on the Board. Why not the present?

3. Although the indoor pool has been painted, the blue paint is already peeling in some areas. In the right hand corner of the pool (as you are going down the stairs at the 3 foot end), you will see white showing through, as well as in other areas in the 3 foot and 5 foot area. The owners need to contact whomever painted the pool and have them redo it. I'm sure they guarantee their work for a certain period. Also, the pooll drain is not up to the federal mandate.

4. The stone walkway around the indoor pool is horrendous. Stones are falling out and green mold is growing in the holes where they used to be. Furthermore, the small stones that have fallen out are sticking on people's feet and are being brought into the pool.

5. There was no wireless Internet as of 7/11/09.

6. There was no exterior work going on for the entire week 07/04-07/11.

7. We were assigned Unit 14, which was a loft. The condition of the unit was awful. We had 8 family members down and we were never more embarrassed. We couldn't even sit on the sofa or loveseat because the cushions were so worn that the springs were shot. We had to go out and buy an air mattress for those who were supposed to sleep on the pull out sofa. As far as the loft, the rubber stair threads on the ladder to the loft were loose on two of the steps. It was quite a dangerous adventure for those sleeping up there. I can't believe housekeeping didn't notice this. While the guest bedroom mattresses were fine, the one in the master bedroom was worn and uncomfortable to sleep on.

8. The wood on the door to Unit 14 was peeling at the bottom. Slits of it were actually flapping as you open the door. Not a good impression to give upon entering the unit.

According to past newsletters, Unit 14 furniture was replaced 3 years ago. I know these units get a lot of wear, but if we're paying to replace furniture every 3 years, perhaps that's something we need to look at. Maybe we can buy sturdier furniture that cost more. In the case of the sofa, replacing just the mattress can be done.

There needs to be some sort of quality checks in these units on a regular basis, not just relying on people who stay in them to mention them on the maintenance sheets. If housekeeping doesn't have the time to sit on beds and sofas to check their condition, then perhaps an office worker, maintenance person, or sales person can do it. After all, people renting off the street are not going to return if they get a unit in bad shape.

Considering what we have been paying in maintenance fees over the years, there's no excuse for the bad condition of furniture.

Speaking of maintenance fees, we have traveled to numerous other resorts over the 20 plus years we have owned at Southcape by exchanging our week through Interval or RCI. We always inquired about the maintenance fees at the resorts because their condition was always immaculate, so we assumed the maintenance fees would be high. Rather, we found that maintenance fees ranged from a low of $275 to a high of $475. Southcape's maintenance fees have always been higher than the norm, yet the resort does not reflect that. It continues to show its age.

We as owners really need to start getting more involved and questioning where the money is going, how furniture replacement is done in terms of cost, and how we can get more amenities, such as a beach or shopping trolley, to better market the resort. There are a lot of other accommodations trying to attract guests, so we need to step it up if we want to increase rental income.

 

[NEVMSLLC]

Hi CiC3

Thanks for your post and I'll try to answer all of your questions.

No one is trying to take anyone's weeks. It is true that owner's sometimes interpret the requirement to deed one's weeks to Festiva if they join the Adventure Club to be an attempt to "take" their weeks. Nothing could be further from the truth. If she wished to use her time at Southcape, she would have to notify Festiva a year in advance. Sounds to me as though she made the right choice by deciding not to join.

3. When the pool was repainted, it was because the last time it was repainted, they didn't wait a sufficient time for the paint to seal before refilling the pool and the paint was peeling. This time, we did it ourselves to save money (the other company was out of business) and our staff again refilled the pool before the paint had cured. I take full responsibility for not catching this before the pool was filled. We will be repairing it properly in the fall when the heavy use subsides.

4. We are looking into a new process to cover the walkway. I've seen this done at the Ponds at Foxhollow in the Berkshires and it looks wonderful. We're getting information and estimates on repairing this situation.

5. Wireless internet is installed but not working throughout the resort. We are still waiting for Comcast to update their wiring and are chasing them every week. Other than that, it's all set and I apologize for not having it ready for you.

6. Exterior work on units 1 - 24 and exterior painting of units 32 - 55 has been completed. We wanted to complete it so that our owners would not be disturbed over the summer.

7 & 8. Units 1 - 24 haven't been renovated on the interior for many years. I have no idea how long it's been as we haven't been able to find any records of working being done on these units. I agree with you about the condition of unit 18 and the other units are similar. This and the exterior rot and leaking roofs were the main reasons for the special assessment. Those units will be renovated this winter as there was no time to do it this spring before the summer season began.

I don't know what the newsletter said but unit 18 was not renovated. Renovations should take place to some level every 5 - 7 years. A resort should have a reserve account where money is placed every year to pay for the renovations when they are needed. Southcape has never had a reserve account. When we took over, you will recall that we established a reserve account which we expect will eliminate the need for special assessments in future years. That account is being funded.

I agree with you that these things should have been done and prepared for years ago. They weren't. Why the previous trustees didn't do it, I have no idea, but we do have a plan going forward that i expect will mean you will never see this problem again.

Our maintenance fees are comparable to other similar resorts in the Northeast. Fees in southern states do tend to be lower for any number of reasons. To give you an idea, Brewster Green fees run as high as $740. The Ponds at Foxhollow fees run to well over $800 per week. Ours are under $600 and I do not expect a significant increase for 2010.

I agree with that last statement 100%. I am always looking for input from owners. Next year, we plan to offer both on site and off site activities for owners and guests, all without a significant increase in fees. We're just getting started and we want owner involvement.

Finally, I am not waiting until the end of the year to appoint the Owner Advisory Board. It is being done as we speak and their first meeting will be this fall to review the budget before it is submitted to the trustees. If you have an interest in serving, please let me know. My email is nevmsllc@gmail.com.

Cliff

 

[Sou13]

Answers to your question:
1. Owner
2. Site suggested by another owner
3. Yes

Here's a recap of the questions:

answers to your questions

Quote:
Originally posted by vivmarch
I have just returned from a great week at Southcape (even though the weather didn't always cooperate!) and discovered this site.

What are you all going on about??

I have been staying at Southcape for the last nine years and this year noticed that the place was in a much better condition than it has been in all those years. And I understand from the staff that there are some further upgrades still in progress. I think it's great as any improvements to Southcape protect my initial investment. I've seen several timeshare resorts in other parts of the country that have been allowed to fall into disrepair and I would be very upset if I owned one of them!

So what's going on?

Quote:
Originally posted by Sou13
I have a few questions for you:

1. Are you a concerned Southcape Interval Owner?

2. How did you happen to discover this site upon your return? Please elaborate!

3. Have you paid your nearly $1000 in MF and SA for 2009 in full or are you an exchange from another resort?
That's all for now. Come back soon!

Quote:
Originally posted by vivmarch
Answers to your question:
1. Owner
2. Site suggested by another owner
3. Yes​

I take it that you are a "red" week owner whose week is worth a lot more than a "float" week owner such as myself.

So now that we've established that you are an owner, tell us more about why you got referred to TUG and this discussion by another owner.

 

[Carolinian]

Members should not be satisfied with a mere Owners ''Advisory'' Committee. They should be controlling the board, not a purchaser or unsold developer inventory who is not even paying his rightful m/f's on that inventory and is therefore a deadbeat.