[2008] Belaire Golf Resort and Spa

[brucecz]

I also was at Belaire in Oct. and saw workers pouring concrete. I see them working every day on the web-cam. With my nearly 50 yrs. experience in construction, I can tell you this job is going very slow, but it is going. From what I have been told, Miramar was purchased and is being refurbished by Belaire's owners and is to be used in conjunction with Belaire. I have not bought in at Belaire as of yet, but it is starting to look pretty good. I called the golf course pro-shop and was told there is an agreement with them. Seems to be possibly a few nay-sayers around. Or maybe I am naive.

Is it correct that after about 2 years of selling that not the footings are still not fully completed at the Belaire?


When did they start the Miramar project? Was the Miramar project started before or after sales started up at the Belaire?

Can we assume that seeing no one posted about the Miramar project during the first year or so of postings concerning the Belaire that the Miramar project was started a fair amount of time after the sales effort started at the Belaire.

Bruce

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I also was at Belaire in Oct. and saw workers pouring concrete. I see them working every day on the web-cam. With my nearly 50 yrs. experience in construction, I can tell you this job is going very slow, but it is going. From what I have been told, Miramar was purchased and is being refurbished by Belaire's owners and is to be used in conjunction with Belaire. I have not bought in at Belaire as of yet, but it is starting to look pretty good. I called the golf course pro-shop and was told there is an agreement with them. Seems to be possibly a few nay-sayers around. Or maybe I am naive.

And we have yet another first time visitor to TUG who just happens to appear on this thread.

It is utterly amazing to me how one particular thread about one particular resort in one particular resort attracts so much attention from people who have no connection to TUG show up on this thread and make complimentary posts about the progress of the report.

Why, if I didn't know better I might think that someone associated with the resort is salting the thread with posts by purported happy owners or interested buyers. I could believe it if I didn't know that such tactics were below the Provence of timeshare sales professionals. [/sarcasm]

 

[rockinghams]

No enemy, just curious

I am new to posting on any thread so I don't know how to include a portrait of my mother with my moniker. If I want to use sarcasm, I hope I don't have to identify it. The reason I suddenly appeared on this venue, is because I recently was on a cruise with friends who have purchased at Belaire and wanted to check on the progress, or actually, lack of. I googled Belaire and TUG appeared. The deal looks to good to be true, but, just like a hot stock tip, you want to watch it and hope. They are probably over-selling Belaire and using the funds to bankroll the renovation of Miramar. It's is to bad people can't just comment on what they know instead of what they hear, assume or otherwise get all wrong and try to convince others. No, I am not a shill for any group. I just want it to be real and to cash in like everyone else. I might be naive, but I do not think Bellingham Wa. is the center of anything.

 

[Enrico]

And we have yet another first time visitor to TUG who just happens to appear on this thread.

It is utterly amazing to me how one particular thread about one particular resort in one particular resort attracts so much attention from people who have no connection to TUG show up on this thread and make complimentary posts about the progress of the report.

Why, if I didn't know better I might think that someone associated with the resort is salting the thread with posts by purported happy owners or interested buyers. I could believe it if I didn't know that such tactics were below the Provence of timeshare sales professionals. [/sarcasm]

I have to agree with you Steve. I've followed this thread for as a curious onlooker. I haven't been to PV since 1985, but have been a to Mexico a dozen times since. Let's face it, the only way something gets built in Mexico is with a great number of laborers. On my trip to Cancun in October I witnessed the construction taking place at Royal Haciendas Phase 4....like a swarm of bees on those buildings; 100+ workders. In downtown Cancun, workers were laying a new drainage line in the divided road area near FA Coral Beach....BY HAND!

 

[Karen G]

I am new to posting on any thread so I don't know how to include a portrait of my mother with my moniker. . . I might be naive, but I do not think Bellingham Wa. is the center of anything.

rockingham, if you have read all the posts on this very long thread, you might observe that posters are warned about attacking one another and about being courteous to each other. I am relatively certain that the picture on Steve Nelson's post is not is mother--it's himself. (Just kidding because I've seen him in person.)

Since you included the "northeast" as your location, your curious comment about Bellingham, WA, intrigues me. My daughter lives there and I've been there many times. It's not exactly one of Washington state's better known towns, except to people who actually live in the northwest.

 

[rockinghams]

Bellingham

Karen, I believe I mistakenly referred to Bellingham instead of Bellevue. Centuries ago, I lived in Everett. Wa. and did a lot of work in Bellingham. I now live in the northeast( Springfield-Hartford) area. Any place in Mex. looks good. This is a very informative thread. It is freezing rain as I write this.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Karen, I believe I mistakenly referred to Bellingham instead of Bellevue. Centuries ago, I lived in Everett. Wa. and did a lot of work in Bellingham. I now live in the northeast( Springfield-Hartford) area. Any place in Mex. looks good. This is a very informative thread. It is freezing rain as I write this.

This thread stands unique among threads on TUG for the frequency with which people who have no previous involvement with TUG suddenly register and begin posting about this resort, with comments about Belaire ranging from faint praise to effusive praise.

In our experience here (on this and other threads), a very high proportion of those posts are shill posts. The Belaire thread not only has an extraordinarily high number of such posts (of which yours is simply the most recent), but some of those posts have clearly been exposed as fraudulent shill posts (such as people claiming to be posting from various locales when the IP address from which the post showed the person making the post was in Puerto Vallarta at the time).

Maybe you are what you say you are. Hard to say. Everybody who is a shill poster makes similar statements and claims.

It makes no difference to me; I post this for the sake of people who do come into this thread looking for information on Belaire (in much the same manner as you claim you arrived) to be suspicious of posters who show up in this thread with no history of involvement at the site, making posts that are generally complimentary about a project that has a shady history and an established practice of either shill posting themselves or engaging others to shill post.

You do fit the pattern, so I issue the caution. Readers are free to make their own assessments.

+++++

I might also add that making ad hominem attacks on others is not an effective tactic to remove suspicions that you might be a shill.

 

[Karen G]

Thanks for including the definition of ad hominem, Steve. I had to look it up and now I see you've put in the link. That a good term and certainly applies to the post about your post.

This concludes this brief intermission in this "mother of all threads." And now back to the main subject--Belaire Golf Resort & Spa.

 

[rockinghams]

This thread stands unique among threads on TUG for the frequency with which people who have no previous involvement with TUG suddenly register and begin posting about this resort, with comments about Belaire ranging from faint praise to effusive praise.

In our experience here (on this and other threads), a very high proportion of those posts are shill posts. The Belaire thread not only has an extraordinarily high number of such posts (of which yours is simply the most recent), but some of those posts have clearly been exposed as fraudulent shill posts (such as people claiming to be posting from various locales when the IP address from which the post showed the person making the post was in Puerto Vallarta at the time).

Maybe you are what you say you are. Hard to say. Everybody who is a shill poster makes similar statements and claims.

It makes no difference to me; I post this for the sake of people who do come into this thread looking for information on Belaire (in much the same manner as you claim you arrived) to be suspicious of posters who show up in this thread with no history of involvement at the site, making posts that are generally complimentary about a project that has a shady history and an established practice of either shill posting themselves or engaging others to shill post.

You do fit the pattern, so I issue the caution. Readers are free to make their own assessments.

+++++

I might also add that making ad hominem attacks on others is not an effective tactic to remove suspicions that you might be a shill.

TOUCHE' It is not my intent to do anything but learn. I apologize for the dig. Is it possible that a new observer and responder to this thread can say anything other than negative comments about a property? I have not lost money, been burnt, or otherwise have firsthand knowledge about these people. I have seen many comments that were posted which just were not true. If a commendable comment makes me a shill, I wonder when I'll get my first check. Maybe some of the negative posts are from.........Again, I would like to learn.

 

[brucecz]

TOUCHE' It is not my intent to do anything but learn. I apologize for the dig. Is it possible that a new observer and responder to this thread can say anything other than negative comments about a property? I have not lost money, been burnt, or otherwise have firsthand knowledge about these people. I have seen many comments that were posted which just were not true. If a commendable comment makes me a shill, I wonder when I'll get my first check. Maybe some of the negative posts are from.........Again, I would like to learn.

I tend to agree with what you said in your post #428 on this string and quoting you "I googled Belaire and TUG appeared. The deal looks to good to be true, but, just like a hot stock tip, you want to watch it and hope. They are probably over-selling Belaire and using the funds to bankroll the renovation of Miramar. Unquote.

IMHO what they are doing in my direct experiance and after reading their the contract we signed and then recinded after having a chance to carefully read it the is basis for a lot of the "Thruthfull postings" that the Belaire supporters want to label as negative.

To many times the same things the Belaires sales crew said to many about having to pay no taxes or doubling your money after 2 years of ownership have been proven not to be true beyond any reason doubt.

After 2 years of ownership people still can not use the Belaire to stay in.

If you do not have as you posted in your words "or otherwise have firsthand knowledge about these people" then on the other hand how can you then say without any direct first hand knowlegde I have seen many comments that were posted which just were not true. "

Those two comments semingly controdict each other. What am I missing?

Bruce

 

[rockinghams]

Bruce, What I meant by knowing certain things to be untrue, is when people would say that the web-cam was not live, or that there was not any progress at all. After much soul-searching, I am of the belief that there is something afoul. Curiosity will keep me watching and still pollyannaishly hoping. If it walks like a duck.........

 

[pammex]

I just have to add many posters on here have posted first hand knowledge and true posts.....and many have no involvement at all other than to help...yes, there is something afoul, there is not doubt about that.

 

[jrsdwilson]

The Display Unit At Belaire

On my "Condo Grind of the Bel-AIR" in late April 2008 for which I and my spouse were paid $500.00usd plus a meal plus taxi to and from our unit.While studying the layout of the place, it was very obvious to me that to even get this project to the half-built stage the fancy display unit would have to be demolished to complete the unit.The total area of land in this project is only 2 1/2 hectares a little more than 5 acres . So my little brain tells me that if they have not demolished the display unit / cafe then they are not very close to being half built.
Just as a side bar, at the river Quale on the old "Molina de Aqua" property in old town adjacent to the new waterfront foot bridge of the Malecon, this development started after Bel-Air is by appearance twice the size was having the top floors almost done when I was there.
Does anyone know if in fact this project is open.Just for more information I spent about an hour with the site manager of this project, when doing the 65 foot footings they had on site 9 cranes / drill rigs and 250 iron workers doing the rebar. Once out of the ground the average workforce per day was around 300 tradesmen.
Just something to compare!!!
Cheers,
From very snowy Courtenay this night.

 

[Snappy Sam]

Warning for potential Employees

While it probably seems odd to issue a warning to potential Belaire employees, I am hopeful to save these folks some real heartbreak. One of the most recent Belaire employes joined the staff coming from Branson, Mo. home of numerous time shares. He was told as a Belaire employee that his children were "guaranteed" enrollment at the presigious American School of PV just down the street from the Belaire. His children were coming from very good private schools in the States so this was extremely important to him and his wife.
Unfortunately this was just another "story" told by the Belaire owners/management. Not only was there no spaces available at the school, NONE of the schools in PV that had instruction in English would accept their children! No one wants ANYTHING to do with Belaire employees.
I hope this will be a warning to others. And for those of us who are only too well aware of the Belaire style of promising what can NOT be delivered, this adds to an already lengthy list of why no one should believe what these Belaire folks have to say.

 

[Snappy Sam]

Any updates?

While it probably seems odd to issue a warning to potential Belaire employees, I am hopeful to save these folks some real heartbreak. One of the most recent Belaire employes joined the staff coming from Branson, Mo. home of numerous time shares.

Has anyone met this new person? Any of you Belaire owners know why this happened?
Anyone have a new opening date?

 

[brucecz]

Has anyone met this new person? Any of you Belaire owners know why this happened?
Anyone have a new opening date?

Happy Holidays to one and all and hopefully the the people who bought into the Belaire will be finally able to use it by next Christmas and New Years.

Bruce

 

[rockinghams]

Happy Holidays to one and all and hopefully the the people who bought into the Belaire will be finally able to use it by next Christmas and New Years.

Bruce

Thank you. Same to you and yours. I still have not bought in, but in response to your remark about next Christmas and New Years, I questioned Antonio personally via e-mail about the completion date about 3 weeks ago and he said 18 months would be a safe bet. But, supposedly, if I purchased now, I could stay at the Miramar until Belaire is completed. I remain wary and cautious but am enthused by the activity on the web-cam. Cold in Massachussetts with the possibility of 10-12 in. snow today and tonight.

 

[TROOPER08]

Belaire

Just wondering if anyone has reached the two year date so you can sell the timeshare back to Antonio and Co? I'd be interested to find out what happens at the end of the "must hold" time and how much if anything they will buy it back for.

 

[brucecz]

Thank you. Same to you and yours. I still have not bought in, but in response to your remark about next Christmas and New Years, I questioned Antonio personally via e-mail about the completion date about 3 weeks ago and he said 18 months would be a safe bet. But, supposedly, if I purchased now, I could stay at the Miramar until Belaire is completed. I remain wary and cautious but am enthused by the activity on the web-cam. Cold in Massachussetts with the possibility of 10-12 in. snow today and tonight.

We got about 12 inches of snow last night and this morning. But I think our snow is not as deep as the stuff the Belaire has been spending for the about last 2 years.

Bruce

 

[brucecz]

Just wondering if anyone has reached the two year date so you can sell the timeshare back to Antonio and Co? I'd be interested to find out what happens at the end of the "must hold" time and how much if anything they will buy it back for.

As per many of posts on these 3 strings, many have posted that their contracts contain weasel clauses that get the Belaire legally off the hook in NOT having to reimburse the buyers who bought the sizzle but do not have the steak as promised even after many broken completion deadlines.

The promise made to those who bought 2 years ago expecting to double their money in these past 2 years has been to be another grandiose Belaire promise that has proven to be without one ounce of merit.

Hopefully the Belaire is not grossly under capitalized as it gives definite signs of being and not a Ponizi ploy that it in some aspects has the earmarks of being.

A old Johnny Mathis hit love song title hopefully may NOT point out the completion date of the Belaire. Does anyone remember the name of that song?

Bruce

 

[Dave M]

Bruce -

When is the 12th?

 

[brucecz]

Bruce -

When is the 12th?

Dave, you are correct.

"The 12th of never" is what I was thinking. That was either the name of the
song or a line in the song that I think goes like this "the 12th of never and that's a long, long time."

If I recall one of the songs line correctly it was when his love would end.

Maybe that is when if ever this Belaire group gets this done so the buyers can stay at the Belaire.

I remember that the Belaires background tour's "light opera" music was very pretty and pleasant much like that Johnny Mathis song.

Bruce

 

[timeshare junkie]

Belaire update & personal opinions.

We just returned from 3 weeks in Nuevo Vallarta where we were fortunate to be invited to an Investment Seminar @ The Belaire during the week of Dec.13. Our first impression of the construction site-- non-professional,disorganized,old Mexico construction methods [compared to other construction sites in PV]. We enjoyed a great breakfast and toured the luxurious display suite.Our host reminded us this was not a timeshare, it was fractional ownership and this was an investment in Mexico's solid economy. Our questions were met with few answers. They offered to appraise 2 of our timeshares and if we were interested they would purchase them. The purchase price was 90%of original purchase price [ 2000 % of resale purchase price ] The first offer--4 annual weeks,one annual M/F [ A/I fee],guaranteed 200% return with 2 year buyback plan. Just then a manager announced the steel for the first tower would arrive Dec .20 2008, and they would make the Dec. 2009 completion date for tower 1. All investors check the webcam,the steel should be onsite now. Then another manager offered us a 2 week annual package [1/24 fractional ??]he just received on an upgrade. This offer was 10% of the first offer and we could keep our timeshares. All of the investment councilors we spoke with previously worked in the timeshare industry and now found a new way to benefit their clients.After another"NO" we were on our way to the gifting area and were met by the Developers representative. After a few questions he presented the best offer of the morning--receive 1 free week in PV Dec. 2009 , all of todays offers frozen for 1 year at todays prices. Buy at preconstruction pricing when tower 1 is complete. Does this sound too good to be true? What do we have to loose? After a long discussion [maybe 60 seconds] the answer was " NO". When a deal sounds too good to be true,it usually is. Good luck to all who have purchased, and those who will purchase in the future. I hope you all benefit from your investments. 2 years from now we may look back and wish we had taken this investment offer.
We entered into this Investment Seminar [timeshare presentation] with open minds and left with closed wallets.
Our investment-0 Pesos & 3 hours time.
Our return- 4500 Pesos and our smiling faces.

Good Luck to all Bill & Linda

Timesharing is a game, learn the rules, and play to win.

 

[Karen G]

an Investment Seminar @ The Belaire

That's a new approach!

Thanks, Bill & Linda, for that report. I'm so glad you weren't swayed to part with your money. You did well.

 

[rockinghams]

We just returned from 3 weeks in Nuevo Vallarta where we were fortunate to be invited to an Investment Seminar @ The Belaire during the week of Dec.13. Our first impression of the construction site-- non-professional,disorganized,old Mexico construction methods [compared to other construction sites in PV]. We enjoyed a great breakfast and toured the luxurious display suite.Our host reminded us this was not a timeshare, it was fractional ownership and this was an investment in Mexico's solid economy. Our questions were met with few answers. They offered to appraise 2 of our timeshares and if we were interested they would purchase them. The purchase price was 90%of original purchase price [ 2000 % of resale purchase price ] The first offer--4 annual weeks,one annual M/F [ A/I fee],guaranteed 200% return with 2 year buyback plan. Just then a manager announced the steel for the first tower would arrive Dec .20 2008, and they would make the Dec. 2009 completion date for tower 1. All investors check the webcam,the steel should be onsite now. Then another manager offered us a 2 week annual package [1/24 fractional ??]he just received on an upgrade. This offer was 10% of the first offer and we could keep our timeshares. All of the investment councilors we spoke with previously worked in the timeshare industry and now found a new way to benefit their clients.After another"NO" we were on our way to the gifting area and were met by the Developers representative. After a few questions he presented the best offer of the morning--receive 1 free week in PV Dec. 2009 , all of todays offers frozen for 1 year at todays prices. Buy at preconstruction pricing when tower 1 is complete. Does this sound too good to be true? What do we have to loose? After a long discussion [maybe 60 seconds] the answer was " NO". When a deal sounds too good to be true,it usually is. Good luck to all who have purchased, and those who will purchase in the future. I hope you all benefit from your investments. 2 years from now we may look back and wish we had taken this investment offer.
We entered into this Investment Seminar [timeshare presentation] with open minds and left with closed wallets.
Our investment-0 Pesos & 3 hours time.
Our return- 4500 Pesos and our smiling faces.

Good Luck to all Bill & Linda

Timesharing is a game, learn the rules, and play to win

rockingham, when I fixed the quote of Bill & Linda's post, all that was left was the dancing banana. Is that all you intended to post? Karen G, moderator