[2008] Belaire Golf Resort and Spa

[jrsdwilson]

Timeshare $$$$$

Well I to love to do the Crimeshare whoops I mean Time share grind.
In late April 2008, my wife and I allowed ourselves to be exposed to the finest example of a hole for sale in all of P.V.
It was not all bad, we did get $500.00usd.
However, we try and do at least 3 Crimeshare (Timeshare) tours during our 6 to 7 weeks in P.V.
March of 2009 will be our 26th consecutive year, spending 6 weeks or better.
And I must say that the BELAIRE (read as BEL-AIR) should make alarm bells ring in ones head.
I have been to lots of presentations, in 2008 Mayan,Playa del Sol and Belaire.
I love the way the sales persons work us over, and then fade away when it becomes obvious that we are working them.
I have never been on site longer than 1 hour 45 min. at the 90 minute mark I am already asking for the manager of the day to come forward to ensure that his sales person is done and then have him produce my (pre-arranged in writing) incentive package.
Only once (Paradise) did I have to start to make a scene in the closing lounge to speed up this process.
I just feel that this place was such a scam that I had to say something.
If I am wrong great.
Cheers,
John

 

[Jane Doe]

Well I to love to do the Crimeshare whoops I mean Time share grind.
In late April 2008, my wife and I allowed ourselves to be exposed to the finest example of a hole for sale in all of P.V.
It was not all bad, we did get $500.00usd.
However, we try and do at least 3 Crimeshare (Timeshare) tours during our 6 to 7 weeks in P.V.
March of 2009 will be our 26th consecutive year, spending 6 weeks or better.
And I must say that the BELAIRE (read as BEL-AIR) should make alarm bells ring in ones head.
I have been to lots of presentations, in 2008 Mayan,Playa del Sol and Belaire.
I love the way the sales persons work us over, and then fade away when it becomes obvious that we are working them.
I have never been on site longer than 1 hour 45 min. at the 90 minute mark I am already asking for the manager of the day to come forward to ensure that his sales person is done and then have him produce my (pre-arranged in writing) incentive package.
Only once (Paradise) did I have to start to make a scene in the closing lounge to speed up this process.
I just feel that this place was such a scam that I had to say something.
If I am wrong great.
Cheers,
John

That is the problem with puerto vallarta, the opc's here are so stupid. The more the resorts pay the more they give. Does anyone besides you make enough to feed their family. I work in this because I live here, it pays the bills feeds my son, and we live ok. My husband works hard as well. We are honest and I always give to the couples what I promise. This is your vacation, but it is our job, did you ever stop to consider how much are you allowing the person to make that is inviting you? Do they deserve to make more than $200 PESOS? I think that I deserve to make more than a can of formula costs. When I go to work each day I have to pay for daycare, and transportation to work whether by car or bus. We don't go to your job and take all of your days pay...Someone should sometime and then tell you they are helping you out. You are not helping us out we don't need your kind of business. You are called a stroker, and here is a tip, even the opc's don't like strokers. I work hard I am honest and I work for a good company, I rarely have complaints about the presentation, and out of over 600 couples I have had one complaint personally (it was from a stroker). My husband sells timeshare, do you think you are being fair to his child when maybe you are taking his only chance for the day? He sells it honestly and so we make a living it is not the big bucks when you do it honestly. I feel sorry for the next sales person that has to do you the favor of taking you on tour. Yes, anything that is too good to be true, probably is, but not all companies or timeshare people are crooks, drugaddicts, or thieves.

 

[Jane Doe]

again

too bad my pictures were deleted...Did they violate some rule I didn't know of? And I was just going to write that at least everyone who thought the cameras were fake can rest now, the pics showed exactly what the cameras did....

 

[Karen G]

too bad my pictures were deleted...Did they violate some rule I didn't know of? And I was just going to write that at least everyone who thought the cameras were fake can rest now, the pics showed exactly what the cameras did....

I don't believe anyone on TUG deleted your pictures. Maybe it was some glitch with Photobucket.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

too bad my pictures were deleted...Did they violate some rule I didn't know of? And I was just going to write that at least everyone who thought the cameras were fake can rest now, the pics showed exactly what the cameras did....

That graphic was served up by Photobucket because the photo is no longer stored in Photobucket at the place where you linked to it. That almost always means that the person with the Photobucket account either deleted the photo from Photobucket or moved the photo to a different folder at Photobucket. If it's your Photobucket account, the pictures aren't showing because you did something at Photobucket to break the links.

It wasn't anything that happened here.

 

[Karen G]

I feel sorry for the next sales person that has to do you the favor of taking you on tour.

I think your anger is misplaced a bit. Why are you mad at the tourists who are hounded by the OPC's into signing up for a tour? The developers came up with this marketing scheme and apparently it is working pretty well for them because they keep doing it.

When I take a timeshare tour in Mexico it is because I was invited to attend and promised gifts to give up some of my vacation time to listen to a sales pitch. If that method of getting sales prospects is upsetting to the sales people then they should take up their complaints with management or find some other line of work.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I feel sorry for the next sales person that has to do you the favor of taking you on tour.

I don't understand. I thought the OPC made money by getting people to sign up for tours. So how would it hurt that person's income if I sign up for the tour?

Everytime we have contact with one of those people who books tours (whether it's someone at a booth or the concierge at the resort (whose primary job is to funnel people into the sales room) we make clear that we are just looking and have no intention of buying. Nevertheless they are extremely eager to get us signed up.

 

[pammex]

The OPC's do make money for getting the tourists to go to the presentation..that is their job to convince people to go and that is what they are paid for......the less they give the touring person, the more they pocket....

The OPC's job is to funnel people in...the tourists job is to give up time of their precious vacation....maybe they will buy, maybe not.....

Seems like a lot of misplaced anger.

Strokers are people who just go to timeshare presentations to get the gifts etc., in return for their time. A stroker is one who does this frequently and has no intention of buying but let's face it, many as you say strokers do end up buying...there is no opportunity to sell, if no one attends the presentation....so it seems that your anger is misplaced.......

With the economy as it is in states you may want to be careful of anger at strokers or others, they are your prospects and without them you get nothing. People will be traveling less and less as the economy dives, so preoceed with caution in being mad at tourists as they may been greatly decreased.

Sorry you are having a hard time in your daily living now.....hope it improves.

 

[Sponge]

PostEd buy Jane Doe: That is the problem with puerto vallarta, the opc's here are so stupid. The more the resorts pay the more they give. Does anyone besides you make enough to feed their family. I work in this because I live here, it pays the bills feeds my son, and we live ok. My husband works hard as well. We are honest and I always give to the couples what I promise. This is your vacation, but it is our job, did you ever stop to consider how much are you allowing the person to make that is inviting you? Do they deserve to make more than $200 PESOS? I think that I deserve to make more than a can of formula costs. When I go to work each day I have to pay for daycare, and transportation to work whether by car or bus. We don't go to your job and take all of your days pay...Someone should sometime and then tell you they are helping you out. You are not helping us out we don't need your kind of business. You are called a stroker, and here is a tip, even the opc's don't like strokers. I work hard I am honest and I work for a good company, I rarely have complaints about the presentation, and out of over 600 couples I have had one complaint personally (it was from a stroker). My husband sells timeshare, do you think you are being fair to his child when maybe you are taking his only chance for the day? He sells it honestly and so we make a living it is not the big bucks when you do it honestly. I feel sorry for the next sales person that has to do you the favor of taking you on tour. Yes, anything that is too good to be true, probably is, but not all companies or timeshare people are crooks, drugaddicts, or thieves.

So what are you called when you get a couple to sign up for a bottle of Tequila and a couple of Mexican Blanket's????

 

[fidji]

Well I to love to do the Crimeshare whoops I mean Time share grind.
In late April 2008, my wife and I allowed ourselves to be exposed to the finest example of a hole for sale in all of P.V.
It was not all bad, we did get $500.00usd.
However, we try and do at least 3 Crimeshare (Timeshare) tours during our 6 to 7 weeks in P.V.
March of 2009 will be our 26th consecutive year, spending 6 weeks or better.
And I must say that the BELAIRE (read as BEL-AIR) should make alarm bells ring in ones head.
I have been to lots of presentations, in 2008 Mayan,Playa del Sol and Belaire.
I love the way the sales persons work us over, and then fade away when it becomes obvious that we are working them.
I have never been on site longer than 1 hour 45 min. at the 90 minute mark I am already asking for the manager of the day to come forward to ensure that his sales person is done and then have him produce my (pre-arranged in writing) incentive package.
Only once (Paradise) did I have to start to make a scene in the closing lounge to speed up this process.
I just feel that this place was such a scam that I had to say something.
If I am wrong great.
Cheers,
John

thats kind of vacation income only a [inappropriate language deleted] would agree to do that and mess with the work of a professional sales persont hey are a lot honest companies and sales persons who make theyr living in the vacation industry

 

[brucecz]

It seems the most of those claiming to be selling Puerto Vallarta Timeshares for the developers posting here, do not mention the resort that they are working for.

If you are really proud of your resort and your resorts sales ethics please share with us what resort developer you are selling for and what you think makes your resort and it's sales ethics outstanding.

Thank you for sharing your insights with us.

Bruce

 

[pammex]

So what are you called when you get a couple to sign up for a bottle of Tequila and a couple of Mexican Blanket's????

A vacationeer who lost a lot of time on vacation for very little money for their time. LOL. And the OPC who brought person is gets a hefty chunck, since lets face it what is a bottle of tequila worth and a Mexican blanket..tops $50., so the OPC, made a killing........and if you bought....even more money...

The people working these jobs do quite well sometimes,and they chose to do this job and the vacationeer chose to do the presentation, so both win.

I have to confess we did a few years ago for blankets, T-Shirts, and cheap tequila....now we know out time is worth more than that.

I was offered a great deal once at Palace resorts while on an exchange, as the salesman said, I did not have to pay an off the street guy to get you here, so that is worth a chunk of advertisement money etc......

It is amazing how much money is spent to get people into presentations, it is their form of advertisement.

Also it takes two to tango and the off the street guy usually knows if you are a stroker, so the game goes...one hand washes the other, you go along with the game and I get my cut....hmm...

Many who are considered strokers, do end up buying.....so may have gone in as stroker but ended up buyer....win, win...well at least for the salesmen, and hopefully for the buyer....

Jane Doe: This is how it is all over the world for salesmen...do you think all the people vacationing live this extraordinary rich life and have no children to feed. They work hard for their money too. It is all part of the job...on some you make 200pesos and lets say on others 1000, 2000 or maybe more pesos...hey... It is your job to get them to go with the least amount of bennies and then it is their job to sit for who knows how many hours on vacation, listening to professional sales tactics, whether they be good or bad, with much high pressure.....be fair, it works both ways and how much more do you get if they buy?? Just because people have money for a vacation does not mean they are rich...and have money to throw away...

Do you feel bad for them when they maybe bought under pressure and are not happy and have put themselves in financial straits? Or maybe ruined their credit, or lost their retirement funds.....be fair.....I have never seen a vacationeer beg to go on a presentation, it is the other way around...

 

[Karen G]

Jane Doe: This is how it is all over the world for salesmen...do you think all the people vacationing live this extraordinary rich life and have no children to feed. They work hard for their money too. . . . Just because people have money for a vacation does not mean they are rich...and have money to throw away...

Do you feel bad for them when they maybe bought under pressure and are not happy and have put themselves in financial straits? Or maybe ruined their credit, or lost their retirement funds.....be fair.....I have never seen a vacationeer beg to go on a presentation, it is the other way around...

Pam, thanks for your great post. You explained things so very well. Hope Jane Doe and the other salespeople/OPC's read this.

I would guess that probably 99% of the people who end up buying timeshare at a presentation had no intention of buying when they first walked in. I know we didn't when we bought from a developer in Cabo, but we've been very happy with our annual vacation there. When a property offers quality and value to the purchasers, they don't need to be tricked into buying it or lied to in a sales presentation. It should sell itself.

 

[pianodinosaur]

Pam, thanks for your great post. You explained things so very well. Hope Jane Doe and the other salespeople/OPC's read this.

I would guess that probably 99% of the people who end up buying timeshare at a presentation had no intention of buying when they first walked in. I know we didn't when we bought from a developer in Cabo, but we've been very happy with our annual vacation there. When a property offers quality and value to the purchasers, they don't need to be tricked into buying it or lied to in a sales presentation. It should sell itself.

Timesharing is definitely not for everyone. However, I have worked hard for many years and find that I really need to get away for my own sanity. Timesharing has forced me to do that and I have no regrets. However, I dealt with Hilton, not with Bellaire. The Grand Mayan may have a high pressure sales pitch but they also have a resort to be proud of.

 

[pammex]

Pam, thanks for your great post. You explained things so very well. Hope Jane Doe and the other salespeople/OPC's read this.

I would guess that probably 99% of the people who end up buying timeshare at a presentation had no intention of buying when they first walked in. I know we didn't when we bought from a developer in Cabo, but we've been very happy with our annual vacation there. When a property offers quality and value to the purchasers, they don't need to be tricked into buying it or lied to in a sales presentation. It should sell itself.

Thanks Karen I appreciate the compliment....

WE own many timeshares and have bought developer and resale and we are in that 99%, said we would never buy a timeshare....:hysterical: We love every one we own, and do not feel we were tricked into buying either, maybe a few little fibs on bennies like renting and such, but for us, we are very happy with what we do own and we use them, and yup they did sell themselves.

I also agree with the pianodinasaur The Mayans have high pressure but they certainly do have nice resorts, and I have always received good treatment from them.

And yes I hope Jane Doe reads this along with the salespeople and OPC's. Be fair, we all struggle to make a buck!!!

 

[pammex]

repeat post...no clue what is up but seems every post I am making is duplicating....weird! Really sorry...

 

[Jane Doe]

I don't understand. I thought the OPC made money by getting people to sign up for tours. So how would it hurt that person's income if I sign up for the tour?

Everytime we have contact with one of those people who books tours (whether it's someone at a booth or the concierge at the resort (whose primary job is to funnel people into the sales room) we make clear that we are just looking and have no intention of buying. Nevertheless they are extremely eager to get us signed up.

Not mad at the tourists, but at the whole way it is now. The real problem is the opc's at certain resorts, the more the resorts pay the more they offer, which means in the end they still make next to nothing even if they are getting paid alot. But not all of the resorts pay alot. Some pay much less than others, and now you may say so why work there? The answer is because once you sign with one company, you cannot switch. It takes weeks to be able to switch and costs thousands of dollars (I mean usually about 6,000 or more and that is dollars and the opc has to pay that) so usually you are stuck where you are at, and if you do decide to switch then you are also without work for weeks on top of the thousands you have to pay. There are other aspects involved as well that make it more complicated being a foreigner. The problem is that the opc's that offer nearly everything they make, make it so nobody here makes very good money. To make the same as we used to we need to take 3 couples to make what we used to with one. I don't mind giving the tourist a good deal, but I think that if you are asking for more than 3000 pesos, you are not allowing the person here to make a good living. The problem stems from the fact that most of the opc's do drugs all the time, and most of the companies pay the same day, so if you agree to go for 500 dollars then maybe if he works for mayan or mammann he makes 40 dollars so he can go buy some coke to be able to work more to go buy more coke. The problem is that the people that have families and work hard now are also only making 40 dollars because they have to match what the crackhead down the street offered because obviously they want the best deal right? So how can you afford to feed a family when for each couple you only make 40 dollars. I believe that a good deal for the customers and a good deal for the opc is a fair arrangement. I do admit at the end of the month I give alot if I am almost to make a bonus and just need a few more couples. The bottom line is, it is a dirty business and just getting worse it seems.

 

[pammex]

Jane Doe..you wrote this..There are other aspects involved as well that make it more complicated being a foreigner.

Are you a foreigner? If so, then for you I guess the answer is pretty simple, move out, move on, and go back where you came from.

Kind of a broad generalization to say "most" of the opc's do drugs all the time and to call them crackheads and such....hope they are not reading what you have written about them on here....

A fair arrangement is good for all involved obviously, so how much do you think a person's time is worth on "vacation"?

Yes, it is I guess a dirty business but it is no one's fault on TUG or the tourists that you choose to work in this business.

Do you suggest the tourists spend their hard earned vacation making you money? Have you seen what is happening to the economy in the US? Do you realize how much this will impact tourism all over the world? Do you know how many people are now without jobs in the US? Do you realize, they may not be coming at all to Mexico....maybe for some time to come, you ned to either work your job or move on as I fear times are only going to get tougher....the trickle down effect happens in Mexico from US, so maybe this year okay and maybe beginning of next year as vacations are already planned but what about after that???

You obviously are not happy in your job, so you should move on...this type of job is suited for certain people and not for others...I think maybe you are looking for sympathy from the tourists on here but yet...I ponder why you would put it on an already troubled thread such as Belair, where so many are unclear at this point what is or has happened to their retirement savings, college funds, saved money, etc. etc.

Sorry but this thread is in regards to Belair. Do you work for Belair? My sympathies go to those dealing with their finances in Belair at this point....

Maybe you should go to Profeco and tell them of the situation with the opc's and your story, and maybe you can change the industry!!!

I wish you better luck and happiness....

 

[jrsdwilson]

Presentation renumeration

Jane D.
I want to make the point, that when I agree to a presentation I am doing this to help a very longtime friend who works very hard as a beach peddler.
My friend has many contacts in the business, and he seeks out the ones that can and do offer the largest return for my time which results in the largest return for my amigo.
We are both very happy with this arrangement.
It is so corrupt that many times we have to adhere to a "script" prepared by the entry level representative of the complex we are touring.
It is crooked from the moment contact is made, everyone is paid off, even the desk clerk at the "scripted time share that I am supposed own".
Sooooooo, do I feel any guilt about assisting a friend make ends meet by attending one of these corrupt presentations ? " NOT ONE BIT"
And in April of 2009 I will again be in position to assist my friend, I hope that the presentation rates are still in the $400.00 to $500.00usd range.
Cheers

 

[poocooms]

December, 2008

Do you have any updated information on Belaire? We are suppose to give them the second half of our payment on December 18. Supposely, they are opening Mirmar in Mismoyala this month and people will be able to trade starting January.

Any info you could give me would be greatly appreciated

 

[DeniseM]

December, 2008

Do you have any updated information on Belaire? We are suppose to give them the second half of our payment on December 18. Supposely, they are opening Mirmar in Mismoyala this month and people will be able to trade starting January.

Any info you could give me would be greatly appreciated

Welcome to TUG - the most current info. is in this thread. The last post was Nov. 29th.

 

[missdaisy10]

What can you tell us about "Mirmar in Mismoyala"? Where and when did this come into play? Is this an existing property that they have (supposedly) purchased, renamed, and are going to use to take some of the heat off or is there an existing property in Mismoyala already named Mirmar (I have stayed in that area and do not recall such a property) that they have puchased or leased? Could this be the old Casa Iguana property that I understand has been closed for about a year now? If so, its a pretty basic property that would be many steps down from what we saw at Belaire's model.

For background, I am an ex-Belaire owner (I rescinded my contract after eight months of lies and unfulfilled promises and representations) who lost a considerable sum of money to this project. I am curious as to what they are currently up to and try to stay current via this website. It seems like there is a dearth of recent reports on progress/lack of progress on the building. My last report was from friends who went by the property in October while in PV and reported that nothing was going on with re. to construction. Has this changed?

 

[rockinghams]

I also was at Belaire in Oct. and saw workers pouring concrete. I see them working every day on the web-cam. With my nearly 50 yrs. experience in construction, I can tell you this job is going very slow, but it is going. From what I have been told, Miramar was purchased and is being refurbished by Belaire's owners and is to be used in conjunction with Belaire. I have not bought in at Belaire as of yet, but it is starting to look pretty good. I called the golf course pro-shop and was told there is an agreement with them. Seems to be possibly a few nay-sayers around. Or maybe I am naive.

 

[aliikai2]

Hi Rockinghams

Welcome to TUG,

I have been watching this project since Nov 8,2007 when we toured, and they have poured some concrete, however in the last 2 months there has been almost no progress.

I have saved the web cam shots every month for a couple of months, and there are normally 2 to 4 workers doing something, but very, very little is getting done.

With labor costs of less than 67 pesos ( $6.20 usd) per 10 hour day per worker, this project should be making rapid progress, which it isn't.

I would recommend waiting before you make a purchase until there is something tangible and available for your use.

jmho,

Greg

I also was at Belaire in Oct. and saw workers pouring concrete. I see them working every day on the web-cam. With my nearly 50 yrs. experience in construction, I can tell you this job is going very slow, but it is going. From what I have been told, Miramar was purchased and is being refurbished by Belaire's owners and is to be used in conjunction with Belaire. I have not bought in at Belaire as of yet, but it is starting to look pretty good. I called the golf course pro-shop and was told there is an agreement with them. Seems to be possibly a few nay-sayers around. Or maybe I am naive.

 

[pammex]

I have to agree with aliikai2.....I was recently at the Mayan Resorts and was there also in Jan of this year and they have a whole structure up in that time, yet Belair is pouring concrete and such since 2007.......proceed with caution...