*** Official 2023 Vistana Maintenance Fees Thread ***

[ccclement250]

Has anyone tried to pay MF from the Vistana website since Abound has launched? I'm getting an error message when trying to pull up statements from the Association link on the website. One would think making it easy to pay is one of the things Marriott would want working for sure!!

I am able to pay MF from Vistana's website just now. But what I don't know is 'membership fee' or 'club fee'? Is this required once you opt-in on Abound? Thanks!

 

[jeffm211]

I am able to pay MF from Vistana's website just now. But what I don't know is 'membership fee' or 'club fee'? Is this required once you opt-in on Abound? Thanks!

There is no opt-in, only opt-out. My club fee is attached to our WKV invoice where previously the VSN fees were attached to WLR and WDW.

 

[dioxide45]

I am able to pay MF from Vistana's website just now. But what I don't know is 'membership fee' or 'club fee'? Is this required once you opt-in on Abound? Thanks!

It is required to be paid if you want to remain in Abound. You can opt out and there should be instructions provided with your paper or PDF maintenance fee bill on how to do that. I really wouldn't recommend opting out though.

 

[KyleReilly]

It is required to be paid if you want to remain in Abound. You can opt out and there should be instructions provided with your paper or PDF maintenance fee bill on how to do that. I really wouldn't recommend opting out though.

Reading about the Abound benefits now - It looks like even those who bought resale can use abound if bought before Aug 2022. However, is there any true value? I would assume using my VOI as bought is the best value, followed by Star Options, and Abound last (value-wise)? Is that a fair statement?

 

[Eric B]

Reading about the Abound benefits now - It looks like even those who bought resale can use abound if bought before Aug 2022. However, is there any true value? I would assume using my VOI as bought is the best value, followed by Star Options, and Abound last (value-wise)? Is that a fair statement?

Value is in the eye of the beholder. I didn’t really buy my resale SVV weeks to use in Orlando, but instead to use as SOs. I elected for Club Points to try out Abound next year and got an exchange that works well for me and didn’t have to be 7 nights. I value the additional flexibility. On the other hand, I won’t be electing my WSJ weeks. YMMV.

 

[dsmrp]

SVR Spa, 2bdrm
Maintenance Fee(s) $ 948.29
Tax - If Applicable $ 78.02
TOTAL $1,026.31


SVR Lakes, 2bdrm
Maintenance Fee(s) $1,048.42
Tax - If Applicable $123.15
TOTAL $1,171.57

With breakdown:
SVR Spa, 2bdrm, Gold+

Operating $ 759.18
Reserves $ 189.11
RE Tax $ 78.02

TOTAL $1,026.31



SVR Lakes, 2bdrm

Operating $ 817.30
Reserves $ 231.12
RE Tax $ 123,15

TOTAL $1,171.57

 

[jeffm211]

Has anyone tried to pay MF from the Vistana website since Abound has launched? I'm getting an error message when trying to pull up statements from the Association link on the website. One would think making it easy to pay is one of the things Marriott would want working for sure!!

Well, 13 days following this initial post, I am still unable to pay MF online. Anyone else experiencing this today?

 

[Priscilla]

My Fees for 2 bedroom Bella with 81,000 points just came in $1671.57 due Jan,6. Breakdown is as follows. I posted it in the DB as well. I see a note on the bill indicating that you can opt out of receiving the additional exchange opportunity by paying a fee of $170. I'm guessing this is the Abound program. They always have to make things so complicated one way or the other.

Operating assessment fees- $1040
Replacement Reserves- $273.45
Tax- $123
Owners Dues- $230
ARDA-ROC- $5.

 

[jeffm211]

Well, 13 days following this initial post, I am still unable to pay MF online. Anyone else experiencing this today?

Finally, the website worked. All 2023 MFs paid today. Hope some of that club fee goes to the IT fund .

 

[Disneypoor]

Finally, the website worked. All 2023 MFs paid today. Hope some of that club fee goes to the IT fund .

I have been trying all day to pay my 2023 MFs with no luck on the website. I have been on hold for 40 minutes trying to get through with them to pay. I'm beginning to think they don't really want my money. Haha!

 

[Sthack]

I have been trying all day to pay my 2023 MFs with no luck on the website. I have been on hold for 40 minutes trying to get through with them to pay. I'm beginning to think they don't really want my money. Haha!

I'm having the same issue. I thought that maybe the website had changed but it sounds like it hasn't.

 

[DanCali]

HRA 2BR Deluxe Phase II (part of 3BR Lockoff)

2023 Vacation Ownership Assessment: $1231.35 (2022: $1089.41) 13.0% increase
2023 Condo Common Assessment: $464.96 (2022: 473.06) 1.7% decrease
2023 VAT: $205.76 (2022: $190.27) 8.1% increase
2023 Atlantis Facilities Fee: $361.24 (2022: $340.15) 6.2% increase

2023 Total: $2263.31 (2022: $2092.89) 8.1% increase

 

[CPNY]

HRA 2BR Deluxe Phase II (part of 3BR Lockoff)

2023 Vacation Ownership Assessment: $1231.35 (2022: $1089.41) 13.0% increase
2023 Condo Common Assessment: $464.96 (2022: 473.06) 1.7% decrease
2023 VAT: $205.76 (2022: $190.27) 8.1% increase
2023 Atlantis Facilities Fee: $361.24 (2022: $340.15) 6.2% increase

2023 Total: $2263.31 (2022: $2092.89) 8.1% increase

HRA 1 Bedroom Premium - Only ownership for this account
(gold plus season, not that it matters but imagine this MF for only 51,700 SO…OUCH)

$2,216.11

 

[9598Lee]

Hey there! I'm trying to pay for the club fees online and it's been cycling for 8 minutes. Did anyone else have the same issue? if Yes, how long does it take to complete?

 

[DanCali]

HRA 1 Bedroom Premium - Only ownership for this account
(gold plus season, not that it matters but imagine this MF for only 51,700 SO…OUCH)

View attachment 70794

$2,216.11

You really should deduct the $230 Club Dues from the total because it's not part of the MFs. It's really $1986.11.

It's obviously still very high, but you made it look like it's as high as the 2BR Deluxe, and it's not quite as high. For perspective, I expect the 1BR Premium Gold to be worth about 2000 points (based on some very educated calculations I ran) so that's $1/point in MFs and won't be attractive on the resale market for someone intending to enroll it. And, as you said, it's also very high on $/SO basis.

With fees of $2000 for large 1BR units and $3600 for 2BR lockoffs, it's getting painful for many owners. We still get good value for the 2BR Deluxe, but those are just a handful of units in Phase 2 that were split from 3BR units and sold separately. Even so, there are a couple of those 2BR Deluxe units in Platinum and Gold seasons offered on RedWeek for free, which is very surprising to me. Those still rent reliably at around $1500 over MFs and therefore I'd expect them to be worth around $6k-$8K (with 4-5 year payback, which is attractive). Could be highly distressed sales from a bad financial situation or inheritance, but if those units have also hit rock bottom, the situation is bad in general. I think the 3BR units in Phase II also still offer decent value given that you can rent the small 1BR side or the 2BR side. But if most owners are feeling the pinch, it's not good for anyone else either. If owners start defaulting, the rest end up footing the bill.

 

[CPNY]

You really should deduct the $230 Club Dues from the total because it's not part of the MFs. It's really $1986.11.

It's obviously still very high, but you made it look like it's as high as the 2BR Deluxe, and it's not quite as high. For perspective, I expect the 1BR Premium Gold to be worth about 2000 points (based on some very educated calculations I ran) so that's $1/point in MFs and won't be attractive on the resale market for someone intending to enroll it. And, as you said, it's also very high on $/SO basis.

With fees of $2000 for large 1BR units and $3600 for 2BR lockoffs, it's getting painful for many owners. We still get good value for the 2BR Deluxe, but those are just a handful of units in Phase 2 that were split from 3BR units and sold separately. Even so, there are a couple of those 2BR Deluxe units in Platinum and Gold seasons offered on RedWeek for free, which is very surprising to me. Those still rent reliably at around $1500 over MFs and therefore I'd expect them to be worth around $6k-$8K (with 4-5 year payback, which is attractive). Could be highly distressed sales from a bad financial situation or inheritance, but if those units have also hit rock bottom, the situation is bad in general. I think the 3BR units in Phase II also still offer decent value given that you can rent the small 1BR side or the 2BR side. But if most owners are feeling the pinch, it's not good for anyone else either. If owners start defaulting, the rest end up footing the bill.

I understand what you’re saying with regard to the actual MF vs additional fees, but try telling that to an owner of just one unit. The check they write for their statement each year is all they care about. We are in the minority on understanding maint fees and ownership in general.

People are fed up and most HRA owners are ready to just stop paying. It’s unfortunate that the VAT, higher club dues, and Atlantis fee really bump the total due considerably.

Delinquencies will continue to grow considering many original owners are aging out and their kids don’t want to be bothered with these timeshares.

Yes…. There was a time that the phase 2, 2 bedroom deluxe plat units actually sold for a few thousand. That time wasn’t that long ago. I was surprised to see a few being given away for free.

 

[DanCali]

I understand what you’re saying with regard to the actual MF vs additional fees, but try telling that to an owner of just one unit. The check they write for their statement each year is all they care about. We are in the minority on understanding maint fees and ownership in general.

People are fed up and most HRA owners are ready to just stop paying. It’s unfortunate that the VAT, higher club dues, and Atlantis fee really bump the total due considerably.

Delinquencies will continue to grow considering many original owners are aging out and their kids don’t want to be bothered with these timeshares.

Yes…. There was a time that the phase 2, 2 bedroom deluxe plat units actually sold for a few thousand. That time wasn’t that long ago. I was surprised to see a few being given away for free.

I don't have a beef with the Atlantis fee ($36/night for the large 1BR). The VAT sucks since it's on top of and double the property tax amount. But I am not sure how the board can claim some of these expenses are reasonable. Looking particularly at the proposed budget line items for the large 1BR, some of the expenses are:

• The admin expenses just add up... "Administration", "Front Desk", "Management Fee", "Owner Services" that's $228 combined just there.
• $219 for housekeeping - This is the largest line item by far. They come for 1 tidy and 1 cleaning. Some all-suite mid-range hotels (Residence Inn and such) operate at $150-$200/night suites, but the cost to clean your similar room is $219? VSN used to charge $39 for the extra housekeeping fees, and this is $219?
• $31 for credit card fee - why do we need to pay that at all when it's their choice to make Atlantis cashless? And what if you charge nothing at all during your stay? Do hotel guests pay that?
• $96 for bad debt expense - that's about 6% of the total. Does that mean 6% of owners are not paying their MFs at all?
• $73 for electricity - for a 900 sq ft 1BR unit for 1 week? That's about $320 for 1 month.

These numbers look completely outlandish for the 2BR lockoff units... $420 for housekeeping?

 

[CPNY]

I am not sure how the board can claim some of these expenses are reasonable. Looking particularly at the proposed budget line items for the large 1BR, some of the expenses are:

• $219 for housekeeping - This is the largest line item by far. They come for 1 tidy and 1 cleaning. Some all-suite mid-range hotels (residence inn and such) operate at $150-$200/night suites, but the cost to clean your similar room is $219? VSN used to charge $39 for the extra housekeeping fees, and this is $219?
• $31 for credit card fee - why do we need to pay that at all when it's their choice to make Atlantis cashless? And what if you charge nothing at all during your stay? Do hotel guests pay that?
• $96 for bad debt expense - that's about 6% of the total. Does that mean 6% of owners are not paying their MFs at all?
• $73 for electricity - for a 900 sq ft 1BR unit for 1 week? That's about $320 for 1 month.

These numbers look completely outlandish for the 2BR lockoff units... $420 for housekeeping?

The HOA board needs to be investigated

 

[dioxide45]

$31 for credit card fee - why do we need to pay that at all when it's their choice to make Atlantis cashless? And what if you charge nothing at all during your stay? Do hotel guests pay that?

This is to cover credit card processing fees for owners that pay their maintenance fee bill by credit card. The HOA has to cover those merchant fees. Cashless resort really shouldn't have anything to do with that. The merchant fees would be baked into the cost of whatever goods or services you purchase.

 

[cubigbird]

HRA 2BR Deluxe Phase II (part of 3BR Lockoff)

2023 Vacation Ownership Assessment: $1231.35 (2022: $1089.41) 13.0% increase
2023 Condo Common Assessment: $464.96 (2022: 473.06) 1.7% decrease
2023 VAT: $205.76 (2022: $190.27) 8.1% increase
2023 Atlantis Facilities Fee: $361.24 (2022: $340.15) 6.2% increase

2023 Total: $2263.31 (2022: $2092.89) 8.1% increase

8.1% increase seems reasonable compare to my WSJ Sunset Bay 28% increase. I agree, we are getting into the stratosphere for MFs. There may be some intention?? Clearly boards aren’t “doing what they can” to keep costs reasonable.

 

[CPNY]

8.1% increase seems reasonable compare to my WSJ Sunset Bay 28% increase. I agree, we are getting into the stratosphere for MFs. There may be some intention?? Clearly boards aren’t “doing what they can” to keep costs reasonable.

I wonder, does Marriott have any influence on these increaes? Maybe they want to take some WSJ and HRA deeds back for some new reason.

 

[cubigbird]

I wonder, does Marriott have any influence on these increaes? Maybe they want to take some WSJ and HRA deeds back for some new reason.

That absolutely has crossed my mind. It’s probably the easiest way for Marriott to quietly get them back….price owners out of their fees. Simple economics. A week at WSJ is now well over $5,000.

 

[dioxide45]

I wonder, does Marriott have any influence on these increaes? Maybe they want to take some WSJ and HRA deeds back for some new reason.

I don't know how much Marriott is involved at HRA, but at the Grande Vista budget meetings, there is a Marriott finance employee in the room during those meeting. Marriott determines the proposed numbers, the BOD reviews them to go out to the owners as part of the Estimated Budget, then they all get back together to finance the numbers. I am sure Marriott can propose just about anything they want. Some items probably get pushboard from the BOD, but others items just skate through. Is HRA managed by Vistana?

I don't see why they would want those units back. THey would then have to carry the MF burden unless they can sell them or get enough control to dissolve the timeshare and convert them to something else. Of the two, only WSJ can be added to the MVC Abound Trust.

 

[timsi]

People give HOA too much credit. In addition from being preselected by Vistana, the voting process is in a way that Vistana has an outsized influence on the vote. To make things worse, there is no direct contact with the owners (do you know the email addresses of your board members?) so you can't communicate properly with these who are supposed to represent you. The cherry on the cake is that all their information comes from the manager with no possibility to independently verify it.

 

[cubigbird]

People give HOA too much credit. In addition from being preselected by Vistana, the voting process is in a way that Vistana has an outsized influence on the vote. To make things worse, there is no direct contact with the owners (do you know the email addresses of your board members?) so you can't communicate properly with these who are supposed to represent you. The cherry on the cake is that all their information comes from the manager with no possibility to independently verify it.

Aren’t audits required? Surely there has to be a way to review books and records?