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*** Official 2023 Vistana Maintenance Fees Thread ***

Ianneyan

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2023 WKV 2BR $2113.79, including $230 VSN Membership Fee and $5 ARDA ; $1878.79 without those fees.

It was $1886.06 all in last year ($227.73 more), so 12% increase overall or 8.5% increase excluding fees. Yikes.
 
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daviator

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Why does my statement not look like your statement? Mine has no breakdown.

I think Vistana needs to breakdown the statements a little more than mine was.

I also need a statement for my second week, which is the identical thing, just a different week/ unit #. I can only see one of my WKOV statements.
You need to download the PDF of your actual statement to see the detail. If you just look at the online statement it lumps everything together under Maintenance Fees.

On the website, Go to Maintenance Fee Details & Statements --> Statements
and there you should be able to download the full statement for every year including the current one.

If you've downloaded the paper statement and it doesn't show you the breakdown, then I don't know why your statement is different. By the way, if you scroll down on the statement, you can see the annual budget and how the MFs were calculated.
 

timsi

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I usually figure on costs rising about 5% annually in my business, and this year we've seen big inflation that we haven't seen in a a long time. I'd expect almost 22% increases over 4 years even without extraordinary inflation (that's 5% annually compounded over four years) so a total of 27% when you include this year's extraordinary inflation seems about right, maybe even a little better than I'd expect. MVC is particularly impacted by wage costs, and those have gone up very significantly – much more than the rate of inflation – for the sorts of jobs which form the bulk of MVC's employment at our resorts.

Marriott is not always the bogeyman.
Most of 2020 pesso was 20% lower and the MF still went up significantly that year. I do not know about your business, but you would not expect to pay as much in Mexico as in the US, don't you think? The Lagunamar MF are somehow more expensive now than many US locations. That's an accomplishment! The MF increases had been very modest before Marriott took over and the resort was always very well maintained and had a healthy reserve fund. I actually do not mind the 2023 increase but the previous 3 were totally not in line with other costs increases in the region.
 

DavidnRobin

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2023 WKORV 2Bd LO Deluxe: $3785.45

BUT!!!
Adds a huge fee $307.29 Membership fee — for DC points?
and $10 for KOR foundation

YIKES!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

btw - this is an 8.8% increase for WKORV over 2022 with no fees.
Odd… same increase as WKV

2021: $3478.95
2022: $3785.45


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

daviator

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Most of 2020 pesso was 20% lower and the MF still went up significantly that year. I do not know about your business, but you would not expect to pay as much in Mexico as in the US, don't you think? The Lagunamar MF are somehow more expensive now than many US locations. That's an accomplishment! The MF increases had been very modest before Marriott took over and the resort was always very well maintained and had a healthy reserve fund. I actually do not mind the 2023 increase but the previous 3 were totally not in line with other costs increases in the region.
I don't own at Lagunamar, but I agree, costs in Mexico should be lower. In fact, years ago, SPG tried several times to sell me Lagunamar (even wanted me to trade in my Maui for Lagunamar) and one of their arguments was how much lower the MFs were, for the same SO value. I guess they can't make that argument any more... but it worked on a lot of people, I think that property largely sold out. (I agree that it's always been well-maintained.)

Have you ever attended the annual meeting or read the minutes? I'm sure the MFs get discussed and it would be interesting to hear the explanation for the increases in the years where they went up a lot. Some of their costs are going to be more tied to U.S. costs (for example, I imagine all the furnishings, appliances, room supplies like soap, shampoo, detergent, etc... all that comes from the U.S.) But their labor costs should be MUCH lower and that should have a large impact. Just off the top of my head, I'd expect MF's at Lagunamar to be at least 25-35% less than a comparable unit in California. The difference used to be larger than that. (I seem to recall that Lagunamar MFs were about half what they were at WKORV, back in 2010 or so.)
 

dioxide45

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This thread is a mess if you really want to see what the fees are. Some people including the Club Fee, some not. The fee isn't the same for everyone. The same problem exists in the database. Then there is a whole mess of general discussion that at least they break apart over in the Marriott forum.
 

daviator

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This thread is a mess if you really want to see what the fees are. Some people including the Club Fee, some not. The fee isn't the same for everyone. The same problem exists in the database.
I noticed that. The database has a separate field for the Club Fee and I hope people are separating it out (I have, for the ones I entered.) In reality the club fee is kind of irrelevant now since different people pay different club fees depending on their OBL, and the club fee is sort of randomly attached to one unit and not others for those who own multiple units. This probably isn't a democracy, but I'd vote to have people just exclude the Club Fee from their MF reports, I don't see how their inclusion does anything but confuse.
 

byeloe

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I checked the website and my WKV EOY has it's normal fee of $150; however I haven't received the official bill.
I have 2 WKV weeks, the Premium is showing $170.50 club fee in my online account and the standard doesn't have any fee listed. Both units purchased before the Abound eligible cutoff date
 

grgs

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I just noticed that the MF bill of one of my Kierland units lists the Chairman's Club dues. So I guess I've been officially notified of our OBL. I wonder if Abound will actually be rolled out before the end of the year. If not, it seems like they should have held off on the higher dues.

1669066687532.png
 
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daviator

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I just noticed that the MF bill of one of my Kierland units lists the Chairman's Club dues. So I guess I've been officially notified of our OBL. I wonder if Abound will actually be rolled out before then end of the year. If not, it seems like should have held off on the higher dues.

View attachment 68900
I believe the dues you are billed for now are actually for 2023, so that's undoubtedly the justification for billing the new rate now. Plus you are immediately repeating the benefits of Chairman's Club even if you are not able to use Abound.

Although I think I will probably pay more with the new dues, because I rarely had reason to accrue the miscellaneous fees like housekeeping and banking, I don't really have a problem with the new dues and its all-inclusive coverage of all fees. It simplifies things which isn't such a bad thing.
 

rickandcindy23

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I believe the dues you are billed for now are actually for 2023, so that's undoubtedly the justification for billing the new rate now. Plus you are immediately repeating the benefits of Chairman's Club even if you are not able to use Abound.

Although I think I will probably pay more with the new dues, because I rarely had reason to accrue the miscellaneous fees like housekeeping and banking, I don't really have a problem with the new dues and its all-inclusive coverage of all fees. It simplifies things which isn't such a bad thing.
Can you explain "with the new dues and its all-inclusive coverage of all fees," is about?
 

daviator

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Can you explain "with the new dues and its all-inclusive coverage of all fees," is about?
Under the new dues scheme, everyone pays higher dues than they did before, but all of the extraneous fees (that used to be assessed) go away.

So no more extra housekeeping fees when you have more reservations in a year than the number of VOIs you own.
No more banking fees.
No more fees to convert to Bonvoy points.
No more name change/guest fees.
There may be a couple of other fees that go away that I'm not remembering.

I know you own a bunch of VOIs and you rent a lot of them, so I presume you've been hit with some of those fees in the past, so maybe the new scheme will save you money. It will certainly make things more predictable, as basically all of the extra fees will go away.
 
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Under the new dues scheme, everyone pays higher dues than they did before, but all of the extraneous fees (that used to be assessed) go away.

So no more extra housekeeping fees when you have more reservations in a year than the number of VOIs you own.
No more banking fees.
No more fees to convert to Bonvoy points.
No more name change/guest fees.
There may be a couple of other fees that go away that I'm not remembering.

I know you own a bunch of VOIs and you rent a lot of them, so I presume you've been hit with some of those fees in the past, so maybe the new scheme will save you money. It will certainly make things more predictable, as basically all of the extra fees will go away.
+No more cancellation fees within 60 and 7 days I believe.
 

timsi

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Under the new dues scheme, everyone pays higher dues than they did before, but all of the extraneous fees (that used to be assessed) go away.

So no more extra housekeeping fees when you have more reservations in a year than the number of VOIs you own.
No more banking fees.
No more fees to convert to Bonvoy points.
No more name change/guest fees.
There may be a couple of other fees that go away that I'm not remembering.

I know you own a bunch of VOIs and you rent a lot of them, so I presume you've been hit with some of those fees in the past, so maybe the new scheme will save you money. It will certainly make things more predictable, as basically all of the extra fees will go away.
They eliminated the banking fee but they reduced banking from 2 years to 1 so many owners will lose a multiple of that fee when their points expire.
The housekeeping fee will now be covered by the resorts through their budgets, so the week owners and those reserving multiple of 7 nights will have higher fees and pay for those booking shorter stays. This is not a free lunch and Marriott is not doing us a favor.
No more fees to convert to Bonvoy? The conversion was not great before, now with the new dynamic pricing it makes even less sense.
Most people do not pay for change/guest fees since it is free for a home resort reservation. If they offer free name change/guest, this will only encourage the less than legal VSN rentals.
 
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daviator

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They eliminated the banking fee but they reduced banking from 2 years to 1 so many owners will lose a multiple of that fee when their points expire.
The housekeeping fee will now be covered by the resorts through their budgets, so the week owners and those reserving multiple of 7 nights will have higher fees and pay for those booking shorter stays. This is not a free lunch and Marriott is not doing us a favor.
I don't know if the resorts got paid the "extra housekeeping" fee by Vistana in the past, actually. It's quite possible that owners have always borne all of the housekeeping costs and that Vistana just kept the "extra housekeeping" fees collected. I certainly don't remember a line item for housekeeping credit or reimbursement.
 

timsi

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I don't know if the resorts got paid the "extra housekeeping" fee by Vistana in the past, actually. It's quite possible that owners have always borne all of the housekeeping costs and that Vistana just kept the "extra housekeeping" fees collected. I certainly don't remember a line item for housekeeping credit or reimbursement.
If the resorts collected the money but the fee was directed somewhere else, we want our money ASAP. Owners have paid 40 dollars for the additional cleanings and the resorts have incurred additional costs (time and cleaning supplies paid from our budgets). You can't have one entity getting the money and another one footing the bill.
 
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daviator

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If the resorts collected the money but the fee was directed somewhere else, we want our money ASAP. Owners have paid 40 dollars for the additional cleanings and the resorts have incurred additional costs (time and cleaning supplies paid from our budgets). You can't have one entity getting the money and another one footing the bill.
You can, actually. Vistana/MVC can and did apply fees for various things. Whether or not they had to pass any of those on to the various Owner's Associations is a contractual matter between those associations and Vistana/MVC. While it seems logical that fees assessed for housekeeping should be passed on the the OA, this isn't a question of logic, it's a contractual question that I certainly don't know the answer to. But if the contract with Vistana didn't require the payment of additional housekeeping fees, it's likely that those fees were not passed on.

On the other hand, it's also possible that those contracts DO require the payment of additional fees for housekeeping in excess of once per week or once per VOI. In that case, MVC may be on the hook to continue to pay those fees regardless whether they are separately collecting them from owners. In other words, they could have calculated that the higher Club Dues allow them to cover additional housekeeping expenses and simplify the accounting around extra charges.

The second possibility is just as likely as the first one, in my view.
 

grgs

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Under the new dues scheme, everyone pays higher dues than they did before, but all of the extraneous fees (that used to be assessed) go away.

So no more extra housekeeping fees when you have more reservations in a year than the number of VOIs you own.
No more banking fees.
No more fees to convert to Bonvoy points.
No more name change/guest fees.
There may be a couple of other fees that go away that I'm not remembering.

I know you own a bunch of VOIs and you rent a lot of them, so I presume you've been hit with some of those fees in the past, so maybe the new scheme will save you money. It will certainly make things more predictable, as basically all of the extra fees will go away.

I just book a stay for Jan. 2023 and had to check the box acknowledging the $38 housekeeping fee, so we'll see if I end up getting charged or not.

Since we're 5 star, we didn't pay banking fees or name change fees. But I understand that it might work well for others. But if Abound doesn't launch by the end of the year, it seems to be a bit premature to change the fee structure at this point. I get that they didn't want to try to change things mid-year, though.
 

YYJMSP

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2023 Operating Assessment $1056.10
2023 Replacement Reserves $336.60
2023 Estimated Real Estate Tax $144.85

Total $1537.55 (vs 2022's $1365.26) -- 12.6% increase
 

YYJMSP

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2023 Operating Assessment $759.18
2023 Replacement Reserves $189.11
2023 Estimated Real Estate Tax $91.52

Total $1039.81 (vs 2022's $977.57) -- 6.4% increase
 

VacationForever

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2023 Operating Assessment $966.96
2023 Replacement Reserves $273.54
2023 Estimated Real Estate Tax $128.28
2023 Total: $1,368.78


2022 Operating Assessment $865.19
2022 Replacement Reserves $259.28
2022 Estimated Real Estate Tax $122.17
2022 Total: $1,246.64

Increase of $122.14 or 9.8%
 

Denise L

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My Membership fee is listed as $307 (!!!) that is quite an increase. I am forced to pay this when I don’t plan to use Abound?
And mine is higher because I have resale Mandatory VOIs that brings me to a high MVC level?


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I'm finally getting around to opening up my bills and am also shocked at the $307 membership fee. Plus, they added it to my most expensive WKORV OFD week, making that bill a whopping $4,100.000+. I preferred it scattered among two of my bills! It seemed less painful. My fee level is also listed as "Chairman," which I could care less about because I will never use Abound, and have never needed to bank, change names, or pay cancellation fees. If someone has just two intervals, is the fee $239.58? It doesn't seem necessary for me to pay $307/year to book my own home resort reservations. If I opt out, will Marriott decide some year soon to start charging me for transactions that used to be included in SVN?
 

dsmrp

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Maintenance Fee(s) $ 948.29
Tax - If Applicable $ 78.02
TOTAL $1,026.31


SVR Lakes, 2bdrm
Maintenance Fee(s) $1,048.42
Tax - If Applicable $123.15
TOTAL $1,171.57
 
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