CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[jabberwocky]

Just to clarify, since I own resale svv and wkv, I won't be able to participate in abound unless I pay $40k.

But we still have access to vsn? That's good enough for me.

If your resale VOI have SO and they were with Vistana prior to 8/8/2022 they will be in Abound. You don’t have to purchase anything further.

You should still have access to VSN - whatever that looks like or what name it is given.

 

[r1lee]

See this thread, you should be able to participate in Abound since you own SVV and WKV before the 8/8/22 cutoff. No need to pay to re-qualify these weeks.

Vistana Update from Marriott Insider

Please be aware: Posts that attack this info will be deleted. This is not the COVID Forum! INSIDER: I read TUG a bit, and just to clarify, Mandatory is no longer a status because VSN is dismantled. Everything is now Abound and therefore what was both mandatory and non mandatory are not in...

tugbbs.com

If your resale VOI have SO and they were with Vistana prior to 8/8/2022 they will be in Abound. You don’t have to purchase anything further.

You should still have access to VSN - whatever that looks like or what name it is given.

Thank you. So basically it cost nothing for most of us who bought resale.

So all this time, their sales trying to tell us that you had to buy something to get into the new program, were basically fibbing. That sucks for owners who got duped to a certain degree.

 

[daviator]

I'm not gonna believe anything until it's in writing from MVC. While most of the stuff being posted makes sense to one degree or another, much of it is contradictory. And it's coming from MVC sales, the same people that recently told me that I wouldn't have access to Abound unless I bought something new, even though all of my VOIs were purchased from the developer. It's a big pile of lies, half-truths, and, buried in there somewhere, snippets of the truth.

 

[jabberwocky]

Thank you. So basically it cost nothing for most of us who bought resale.

So all this time, their sales trying to tell us that you had to buy something to get into the new program, were basically fibbing. That sucks for owners who got duped to a certain degree.

I'm not gonna believe anything until it's in writing from MVC. While most of the stuff being posted makes sense to one degree or another, much of it is contradictory. And it's coming from MVC sales, the same people that recently told me that I wouldn't have access to Abound unless I bought something new, even though all of my VOIs were purchased from the developer. It's a big pile of lies, half-truths, and, buried in there somewhere, snippets of the truth.

This is why I think one should always ask what the other party has to gain when they are trying to sell you something.

In our case we lucked out in March by having an honest salesperson who told us since all of our VOIs had SO they would all be in the new program. Many were unfortunate and we’ve seen examples of owner information that has had whiteout applied to make it appear as though a new purchase was required.

Really, if they did say that all of your mandatory resale would be included in abound when it launched, what incentive would you have to buy? Many salespeople lied, and unfortunately good dollars have been wasted. This is what gives timesharing a bad name.

It is why I am skeptical when I hear VSN is being shut down. The implication they are hoping we draw from this is that you can only trade in Abound points, not the old SO value, so mandatory resales purchased after 8/8 could only be used as a home resort reservation. I believe they won’t be eligible for Abound, but they may very well continue to be able to exchange within the Vistana system (based on what I’ve been told by sales and what I have seen).

Get ready for the next wave of disinformation trying to get us to convert our SO eligible weeks into Abound points.

 

[kozykritter]

I'm not gonna believe anything until it's in writing from MVC. While most of the stuff being posted makes sense to one degree or another, much of it is contradictory. And it's coming from MVC sales, the same people that recently told me that I wouldn't have access to Abound unless I bought something new, even though all of my VOIs were purchased from the developer. It's a big pile of lies, half-truths, and, buried in there somewhere, snippets of the truth.

Exactly. It's like with conspiracy theories. You can take two opposing ones and work through them logically and find some kind of support for each of them. In the end you just don't know what to believe!

 

[cubigbird]

If they did away with VSN and SO right away, that would make existing owners incredibly unhappy and work against what they are ultimately wanting to accomplish — getting owners to buy more. Upset customers don’t buy more. Every sales presentation we’ve been to has stated that VSN internal exchange is still going to exist and if you like VSN and what you own, then you don’t have to elect playing in Abound.

 

[DanCali]

$40k requal for Vistana inventory is not sustainable as it will deplete Abound from the best inventory as people age out and sell their enrolled VOIs. No way would any rational person pay $40k for Abound access when they paid $12k - $30k resale to own at WKOR and N. Especially when you can pick up MVC resale deeds for under 10K or resale points for $7 pp.

Plenty of rational people (even informed ones who read and post on TUG) would pay $40K+, especially if they own multiple resale weeks. Here are two schools of thought on the same transaction...

Example: Say you own 2 WKORV OV weeks you bought for $15K each ($30K total) and the MFs on each of those weeks are around $2800/year. They are not eligible to enroll but would each have a value of 6200 points if enrolled. You get an offer to buy 3000 points at $40K and enroll both resale weeks (the MFs on the points around $2000/year).

Rational Owner #1 says: Those 3000 points are worth $10K at most if I try to sell them next month. So I am being asked to pay a $30,000 enrollment fee, or $15,000 per week. That's insane - no way!

Rational Owner #2 says: If I do this my total cost would be $40K for 3000 points and $30K for the two weeks that can get me another 12,400 points annually. So $70,000 for 15,400 points implies a cost per point of $4.55. This is actually 25%-35% cheaper than buying resale, which is $6-$7 per point after junk fees. Also, my total maintenance fees would be about $7600, which is about $0.49/point instead of $0.65 for Trust points. This is an awesome offer - I'll take it!

If you think about these types of offers in different ways, you can reach totally different conclusions! Both are reasonable ways to think about it, IMO...

 

[DanCali]

The percentage of resales increase over time unless they intend to ROFR every unit. This seems to go against their desire to increase Vistana inventory in Abound. This will leave Abound with scraps of Vistana's best properties over time.

The reason they are putting weeks in the trust is to sell points, but I don't think they care that much if there is any Vistana exchange inventory in Abound. They can still sell points based on potential access to 90+(?) resorts whether or not there is any exchange inventory. For example, there are currently some resorts that are allegedly part of Abound I have yet to book anything there Winter, Spring, or Summer, and believe me - I tried... The availability of inventory (or lack of it) doesn't impact their sales and probably has only a minor secondary impact on any revenue they generate from "skim". Suppose none of the WKV Platinum owners elect points, and MVC can't buy those weeks at ROFR (doesn't exist at that resort) - it still won't stop them from saying you can potentially trade into it.

 

[remowidget]

The reason they are putting weeks in the trust is to sell points, but I don't think they care that much if there is any Vistana exchange inventory in Abound.

I don't think they will move any weeks anywhere. Why would they pay legal and recording fees to move weeks from one account to another? It makes no sense. Ownership has zero impact on booking rooms. Consider Marriott Hotels. They own almost no hotels, but book customers into all of the affiliated brands.

We will see how much they care about Staroption Inventory in Abound. I can think of three scenarios off the top of my head.

1. Staroptions go away and everything is Abound points. I think this is unlikely, but... If they do this, all inventory will be in Abound Points.

2. We will be able to transfer weeks from StarOptions to Abound points. This seems to be the most likely with everything I have read. If they do this, they don't really care so much about inventory in Abound. It's an ugly solution for Staroption owners. Most everyone who does this will end up losing points because there will almost always be points leftover that aren't enough to book anything. Of course, this means extra income for MVC as these stranded points timeout.

3. Staroptions will be able to directly book DP properties, leaving leftover points as Staroptions. This would be my ideal, but.... Lol.

Note: I didn't use VSN or Vistana in my wording above because I think those concepts are going away. The real question is whether Staroptions will still exist. I think they will, well maybe hope they will.

 

[wjarcher]

In writing from whom? In what context was this document created? As we know from this thread, sales offices present all kinds of materials purporting to be the truth about what will happen and yet on the whole, several of these things contradict each other. I think I have PTSD from all of it

Don't ask me the source of this due to the sensitivity of the information I was sharing, but here it is. We've heard enough things from different sources (Just saw another thread on this) and I figure it is better for everyone to interpret this on their own on its validity. Again, Marriott can decide to change these rules whenever they want.

 

[jabberwocky]

Don't ask me the source of this due to the sensitivity of the information I was sharing, but here it is. We've heard enough things from different sources (Just saw another thread on this) and I figure it is better for everyone to interpret this on their own on its validity. Again, Marriott can decide to change these rules whenever they want.

Thanks for sharing the screenshot. So doesn’t this just kill the theory that VSN is being eliminated? It’s only after Aug. 8th that you will need to make a purchase from MVC or Vistana to have it be eligible for Abound. Otherwise it can still be enrolled in VSN is how I’m reading it.

 

[dioxide45]

Thanks for sharing the screenshot. So doesn’t this just kill the theory that VSN is being eliminated? It’s only after Aug. 8th that you will need to make a purchase from MVC or Vistana to have it be eligible for Abound. Otherwise it can still be enrolled in VSN is how I’m reading it.

It seems to. I don't think anyone is necessarily doubting the 8/8 or 8/9 date to be eligible as a mandatory owner. The only thing in question is the "insiders" use of the term "dismantled". Based on the screen shot provided, it seems that VSN would live on.

 

[TJALB]

I feel the same way you do. If it involves significant money then we will simply enjoy what we have. We don't trade our unit, it is mandatory and trades in SOs so no matter what they cook up we are fine.

Agree! We certainly will NOT give up our “mandatory” benefits.

 

[Racing2007]

Has anyone addressed the issue that under the new system that reservations can be made 13 months out at certain levels and owners can only reserve 12 months out in their home resort? During the presentation, I was not provided with any concrete information that owners would get priority units regardless of the inventory set aside for Abound/marriot and when the reservation was made.

 

[Helios]

Don't ask me the source of this due to the sensitivity of the information I was sharing, but here it is. We've heard enough things from different sources (Just saw another thread on this) and I figure it is better for everyone to interpret this on their own on its validity. Again, Marriott can decide to change these rules whenever they want.

This matched what I heard this week.

 

[Racing2007]

Just trying to verify whether they can actually step over a deeded owner. For instance, if that were the case, then theoretically an owner at 12 months out could actually be told that their property/ home resort is already sold out if everyone from the new program booked 13 months out. Unlikely, but possible. No sky falling here, just trying understand home resort ownership privileges. .

 

[jabberwocky]

Just trying to verify whether they can actually step over a deeded owner. For instance, if that were the case, then theoretically an owner at 12 months out could actually be told that their property/ home resort is already sold out if everyone from the new program booked 13 months out. Unlikely, but possible. No sky falling here, just trying understand home resort ownership privileges. .

The Abound trust is an owner just like everyone else and will have to abide by the same terms. Currently those terms state an owner cannot book before 12 months - so unless the trust has a fixed week it cannot be booked in Abound at 13 months.

 

[Racing2007]

Still confusing from the presentation. Can you explain that further? I thought Abound was a collective and did not have a designated home resort. That is the reason for the 13 months. However, No one should be able to book before an owner at their home resort.

 

[jabberwocky]

Still confusing from the presentation. Can you explain that further? I thought Abound was a collective and did not have a designated home resort. That is the reason for the 13 months. However, No one should be able to book before an owner at their home resort.

Abound is a collection of underlying resorts. Some of those resorts permit booking at 13 months. The trust can only allow owners of the trust to book what it owns. Vistana resorts generally are only available at 12 months, so the trust can’t book before then.

Ignore sales on this, they are trying to sell you based on fear.

 

[pathways25]

Abound is a collection of underlying resorts. Some of those resorts permit booking at 13 months. The trust can only allow owners of the trust to book what it owns. Vistana resorts generally are only available at 12 months, so the trust can’t book before then.

Ignore sales on this, they are trying to sell you based on fear.

I completely concur with this analysis. The trust is just a collection of deeds. Anytime an Abound user wants to make a reservation, they need to be assigned 1 (or more) unused intervals in the trust to make that reservation. In theory, the Abound user will not be able to make a reservation that he/she could not have made if they were the direct owner of that assigned interval from the trust.

I was at WPORV in June and I ended up buying some Westin Flex points to retro several resale mandatory weeks that we own. Apparently, based on recent updates, this was a complete waste of money. Sigh... An earlier poster suggested that the "insider's" previous information was intended to encourage people to retro more weeks before Abound rolls out. That sure seems like the case to me now.

 

[robertk2012]

I guess we have dueling insiders! At this point they want all of those resale purchases to disappear so they can collect them through buybacks and cheap rofr.

 

[Racing2007]

Ok. Just want to be sure that when that clock hits midnight, 12 months, out that owners will get priority like we always have at our home resort. Thanks for explaining. However, will believe when I experience it.

 

[dioxide45]

Ok. Just want to be sure that when that clock hits midnight, 12 months, out that owners will get priority like we always have at our home resort. Thanks for explaining. However, will believe when I experience it.

There was a long thread here discussing this very topic and there is some that are concerned regarding a segregation of inventory for Abound.

 

[Grandma2016]

I own everything at KOR...8 weeks including 3 week 52s...everything is OV or OF. Some developers some resale. Normally we rent week 52s to pay maintenance fees on all weeks we own. Bought all 3 week 52s for under 75k before over a year ago. I believe we have over 50k mvc points with our ownership as is. We go every Jan and July for at least 3 weeks and stay OF. I book my OF I own during home period and other weeks with SO. It sounds like this will get harder to get OF with SO because after 8 months ill be competing with other owners for OF during our normal stays as well as marriott owners. Thoughts on how to continue what we do with booking OFs???? I dont think converting to mvc to get 13 month booking window would help would it?

 

[kozykritter]

There is news about Abound by Marriott on the Marriott owners website after last night's update. They didn't share a lot of details but what they did share confirms that VSN and SOs well still exist. See my post on another thread:

Vistana Update from Marriott Insider

Wont the owners of those resorts still have the 8 to 12 month booking window? I should have specified that Marriott fishing for weeks on top of owners booking their weeks. This reinforces the fact to buy where you want to go. And I am going to add: when you want to go (season)

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