CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[jabberwocky]

VSN Elite is no more. New Abound system: 3* Executive, 4* = Presidential, 5* = Chairman. No plans for a higher tier even if someone owns way more than 15K Abound Club Points.

Funny. I just logged in and it still shows me as a 3* in Vistana? I demand my Executive status!

 

[jabberwocky]

From a reliable source, 8/9 was the magic date to be in network/eligible to participate in Abound. Requals will follow Marriott rules - min $40K new money.

Mandatory VOIs that were not requalified before 8/9 are not Abound eligible. They stay mandatory in the Vistana “program” (i.e., same use as per Abound).

So how can it be that requals will require a minimum of $40k, but you can’t requalify into Abound?

I think the proof that a changeover has occurred will be when they stop selling FleX and only Abound points can be bought from Vistana. If this was the case, I’m sure someone would have reported it on TUG.

 

[Helios]

So how can it be that requals will require a minimum of $40k, but you can’t requalify into Abound?

I think the proof that a changeover has occurred will be when they stop selling FleX and only Abound points can be bought from Vistana. If this was the case, I’m sure someone would have reported it on TUG.

The way it was presented is that if you have a unit that was not requalified on 8/9 (mandatory or non) the unit cannot participate in Abound. However, at some point you will be able to enroll it if you buy $40K worth of Abound points.

Mandatory units will retain the mandatory unit status in the old Vistana section of the program. So, my understanding is that they will keep the old programs (Vistana, DC, etc.) features intact and will add Abound as a new program with its own inventory.

 

[Helios]

Funny. I just logged in and it still shows me as a 3* in Vistana? I demand my Executive status!

The change on the screen is coming. We all know how IT savy they are, don’t we?

 

[Helios]

One thing I missed yesterday, the old 5* benefit to bank up to 12/31 will be gone. It will be 10/1 moving forward.

 

[Red elephant]

One thing I missed yesterday, the old 5* benefit to bank up to 12/31 will be gone. It will be 10/1 moving forward.

But if they are keeping VSN as is why change that?

 

[kozykritter]

According to John Ruble MVW SVP Global Sales and Field Operations during a recent visit to Sheraton Steamboat, they are looking to synch up the benefits of both programs and move them towards the most generous existing policy between the two programs when they do. Allegedly he gave the example of matching Vistana's more generous banking timeframes over to MVC in some fashion as an example of what they were looking at...makes sense because to use one technology platform to administer both programs, the fewer custom (different) features, the better. Imagine the revolt on the Vistana side if they did it the other way around! We'll see what happens in the end.

 

[rcv82]

According to John Ruble MVW SVP Global Sales and Field Operations during a recent visit to Sheraton Steamboat, they are looking to synch up the benefits of both programs and move them towards the most generous existing policy between the two programs when they do. Allegedly he gave the example of matching Vistana's more generous banking timeframes over to MVC in some fashion as an example of what they were looking at...makes sense because to use one technology platform to administer both programs, the fewer custom (different) features, the better. Imagine the revolt on the Vistana side if they did it the other way around! We'll see what happens in the end.

This will be interesting because the elite benefits of both programs are quite different. Many of the MVC benefits seem to relate to giving the member an advantage at booking (earlier access) , while the VSE elite benefits are things like reduced fees, late checkout (as 5*, my favorite, although getting that can be hard).

Both have later deadlines for banking.

The way the VSE disclosures are written, I don’t see how they could provide earlier access to anything but Abound reservations.


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[dioxide45]

This will be interesting because the elite benefits of both programs are quite different. Many of the MVC benefits seem to relate to giving the member an advantage at booking (earlier access) , while the VSE elite benefits are things like reduced fees, late checkout (as 5*, my favorite, although getting that can be hard).

Both have later deadlines for banking.

The way the VSE disclosures are written, I don’t see how they could provide earlier access to anything but Abound reservations.


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THe Abound Owner Benefit Levels will only apply to the Abound program. Having Abound Chairman's won't give you 13 month booking in VSE and they won't change those to match up. I suspect that everything that currently exists with the 3*, 4* and 5* levels in VSN won't change. The new MVC levels only apply to Abound and nothing more.

 

[VacationForever]

Many of the MVC benefits seem to relate to giving the member an advantage at booking (earlier access) , while the VSE elite benefits are things like reduced fees.
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Currently, DC club membership gets rid of all fees - no banking fee and no II exchange fees when trading back into MVC and Vistana. Combining both programs means that taking the best of both worlds wrt fees.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

The way it was presented is that if you have a unit that was not requalified on 8/9 (mandatory or non) the unit cannot participate in Abound. However, at some point you will be able to enroll it if you buy $40K worth of Abound points.

Mandatory units will retain the mandatory unit status in the old Vistana section of the program. So, my understanding is that they will keep the old programs (Vistana, DC, etc.) features intact and will add Abound as a new program with its own inventory.

$40k requal for Vistana inventory is not sustainable as it will deplete Abound from the best inventory as people age out and sell their enrolled VOIs. No way would any rational person pay $40k for Abound access when they paid $12k - $30k resale to own at WKOR and N. Especially when you can pick up MVC resale deeds for under 10K or resale points for $7 pp.

The percentage of resales increase over time unless they intend to ROFR every unit. This seems to go against their desire to increase Vistana inventory in Abound. This will leave Abound with scraps of Vistana's best properties over time.

Although they would love to rid of VSN mandatory it is baked into the legal documents and next to impossible to remove so they have no choice.

 

[ocdb8r]

Although they would love to rid of VSN mandatory it is baked into the legal documents and next to impossible to remove so they have no choice.

Are we permitted to make this assertion anymore? I understand the moderator of this forum has decided it's no longer permissible to dissent from the inside information obtained from a "Marriott Insider" and any such posts will be deleted.

 

[jabberwocky]

What is being stated in the other thread with regards to mandatory resales being initially included is consistent with what I was told in my presentation from March at SDO as well as last month. It’s also consistent with the ownership profile and why our resale WKORVN week is included in our total number of points.

What is not consistent is that VSN will no longer exist. I was told several times (by salepeople I trust and whose information has been solid thus far) we could book with either SO and this was simply an addition to what we already owned. Abound was simply an overlay on the VSN system.

If they replace VSN with Abound, then IMO mandatory resorts would have to become part of Abound since they need to be in the club. If VSN still exists and is just an overlay, then it is possible for them to keep the resale mandatory resorts out (post 8/8) of Abound.

I still want to see the official details.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

What is being stated in the other thread with regards to mandatory resales being initially included is consistent with what I was told in my presentation from March at SDO as well as last month. It’s also consistent with the ownership profile and why our resale WKORVN week is included in our total number of points.

What is not consistent is that VSN will no longer exist. I was told several times (by salepeople I trust and whose information has been solid thus far) we could book with either SO and this was simply an addition to what we already owned. Abound was simply an overlay on the VSN system.

If they replace VSN with Abound, then IMO mandatory resorts would have to become part of Abound since they need to be in the club. If VSN still exists and is just an overlay, then it is possible for them to keep the resale mandatory resorts out (post 8/8) of Abound.

I still want to see the official details.

This makes sense, however I am still wondering what happens to resale mandatory buyers if they are not able to participate in Abound trading given the CC&Rs? Per the CC&Rs they are required to provide trading. Perhaps they will need to provide Abound for buyers of such deeds? or perhaps it is a free II membership enrollment as Denise is suggesting (with some SO priority and valuation tweeks).

I am going to review Abound enrollment very closely before signing up. I am glad that I have my reservation for next year set and won't need the system except to pay for MF. Can we call and pay without using the system? I am worried about buried T&C changes.

 

[Helios]

What is not consistent is that VSN will no longer exist. I was told several times (by salepeople I trust and whose information has been solid thus far) we could book with either SO and this was simply an addition to what we already owned. Abound was simply an overlay on the VSN system.

If they replace VSN with Abound, then IMO mandatory resorts would have to become part of Abound since they need to be in the club. If VSN still exists and is just an overlay, then it is possible for them to keep the resale mandatory resorts out (post 8/8) of Abound.

I still want to see the official details.

Perhaps I added to the confusion, apologies. I was told VSN would exist so will the DC system. Deeded ownerships will continue working the way they do now. Mandatory would keep working the same way within VSN. Non requalified (before 8/9) mandatory (same for non mandatory) are NOT eligible to participate in Abound without requalifying via a new Abound points package of at least $40K.

 

[Helios]

I hope they aren't trying to replace our deed with Abound trust points to circumvent mandatory resale requirements. It would seem that would require more than website T&C changes.

I don’t think they can do that without filing with the counties, etc. And we would need to sign the deed papers.

 

[kozykritter]

It's likely that the StarOption exchange function will continue to exist but happen within the Abound platform once it launches. Since Abound will contain an option to convert your Vistana ownership to DP, it makes sense to have it all within one IT platform. So in that sense VSN is being replaced with Abound but StarOptions are not being replaced with DP.

 

[jabberwocky]

Perhaps I added to the confusion, apologies. I was told VSN would exist so will the DC system. Deeded ownerships will continue working the way they do now. Mandatory would keep working the same way within VSN. Non requalified (before 8/9) mandatory (same for non mandatory) are NOT eligible to participate in Abound without requalifying via a new Abound points package of at least $40K.

I don’t blame you. I think what you’ve suggested is possible (and more probable). I can’t see them getting rid of VSN completely without risking larger customer unrest and or legal action (think of how people pushed back against guest fees on home resort reservations a few years ago. )

I do question the $40k min as the Vistana customer base has gotten used to a $15-20k additional buy in amount while also allowing for trade ins. Marriott will be eliminating a larger portion of this customer base if they try to move up to this price point and treat them all like Marriott owners immediately.

 

[dioxide45]

I don’t blame you. I think what you’ve suggested is possible (and more probable). I can’t see them getting rid of VSN completely without risking larger customer unrest and or legal action (think of how people pushed back against guest fees on home resort reservations a few years ago. )

I do question the $40k min as the Vistana customer base has gotten used to a $15-20k additional buy in amount while also allowing for trade ins. Marriott will be eliminating a larger portion of this customer base if they try to move up to this price point and treat them all like Marriott owners immediately.

Marriott's program of $40K also only runs intermittently. It isn't always available, usually just during the spring and summer months. I think it started in April this year. I can very likely see them having to drop the points requirements significantly to get Vistana owners to enroll who were used to the $10+5K price points to re-qualify.

 

[dioxide45]

It's likely that the StarOption exchange function will continue to exist but happen within the Abound platform once it launches. Since Abound will contain an option to convert your Vistana ownership to DP, it makes sense to have it all within one IT platform. So in that sense VSN is being replaced with Abound but StarOptions are not being replaced with DP.

We know they are looking to move to a single platform with what they are calling "Vacation Next". It makes sense, but HomeOptions and StarOptions there or on a different website is still VSN.

 

[remowidget]

Non requalified (before 8/9) mandatory (same for non mandatory) are NOT eligible to participate in Abound without requalifying via a new Abound points package of at least $40K.

$40k could easily be a moving target. They could make that the deal now, but offer promotions or whatever later. As an example, I remember one guy saying he qualified a bunch of Marriot weeks with a $50-60k ish Aruba purchase. I've also read that Marriott weeks have been requalified with a $15k purchase.

$40k seems a ridiculously high buy in to requalify a week. I doubt they would get many takers.

 

[kozykritter]

We know they are looking to move to a single platform with what they are calling "Vacation Next". It makes sense, but HomeOptions and StarOptions there or on a different website is still VSN.

Yes, according to the earnings calls, Vacation Next is the initiative spread over several years to maximize the vacation experience from all their recent acquisitions. Creating the DP usage option and launching Abound was listed among the first steps.

The internal exchange function for StarOptions may still be called VSN. The insider was perhaps a bit zealous on their use of language about it "going away". The current interface is perhaps going away but the internal exchange feature (regardless of where it is hosted) will still exist.

 

[remowidget]

Marriott's program of $40K also only runs intermittently. It isn't always available, usually just during the spring and summer months. I think it started in April this year. I can very likely see them having to drop the points requirements significantly to get Vistana owners to enroll who were used to the $10+5K price points to re-qualify.

So, sometimes they don't offer Marriott requalifications at all?

 

[r1lee]

Just to clarify, since I own resale svv and wkv, I won't be able to participate in abound unless I pay $40k.

But we still have access to vsn? That's good enough for me.

 

[VacationForever]

Just to clarify, since I own resale svv and wkv, I won't be able to participate in abound unless I pay $40k.

But we still have access to vsn? That's good enough for me.

See this thread, you should be able to participate in Abound since you own SVV and WKV before the 8/8/22 cutoff. No need to pay to re-qualify these weeks.

Vistana Update from Marriott Insider

Please be aware: Posts that attack this info will be deleted. This is not the COVID Forum! INSIDER: I read TUG a bit, and just to clarify, Mandatory is no longer a status because VSN is dismantled. Everything is now Abound and therefore what was both mandatory and non mandatory are not in...

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