Vistana Update from Marriott Insider

[Sv1plat52]

Wont the owners of those resorts still have the 8 to 12 month booking window?

I should have specified that Marriott fishing for weeks on top of owners booking their weeks. This reinforces the fact to buy where you want to go. And I am going to add: when you want to go (season)

 

[Grandma2016]

I should have specified that Marriott fishing for weeks on top of owners booking their weeks. This reinforces the fact to buy where you want to go. And I am going to add: when you want to go (season)

We own only KOR and KORN and thats where we want to go.

 

[kozykritter]

You can put to rest your fears about the VSN and SOs being eliminated. After last night's upgrade, on the Marriott owners website there is a video from the president of MVW discussing Abound and saying that it is just an enhancement to all of the owners current usage options (from the context, he included Vistana owners in that). There are now two written FAQs posted on the MVC website but no other info. They state that this new usage option is being made possible by an affiliation with the VSN, which means the VSN isn't going away (likely just being administered through the Abound platform once it launches). They also say they plan to launch it in October 2022. Finally they specifically mentioned that Marriott members will have access to Vistana inventory when Vistana owners elect to receive Club points for their VOI for a given year which means they won't be eliminating SO's because otherwise there would be no conversion/election involved. Here's the text of that FAQ:

"Similar to how vacations are made available at Marriott Vacation Club resorts and properties, reservations to stay at Sheraton Vacation Club or Westin Vacation Club resorts will be available in the Abound by Marriott Vacations™ exchange program when an Owner of a VOI in those brands elects to receive Club Points. Availability at Westin Vacation Club and Sheraton Vacation Club resorts for Marriott Vacation Club owners will depend on the number of Westin Vacation Club and Sheraton Vacation Club owners at those resorts who elect to receive Club Points. For this reason, it is possible that there could be limited availability at some Westin Vacation Club and Sheraton Vacation Club resorts."

 

[ocdb8r]

In addition, he states in the video:

One thing to point out. Nothing with your existing ownership changes. All the usage options you have today, all the rights you have, you can continue to use just as you have in the past. We're trying to add additional options to that to make your vacation experiences with us even better. With that, we hope you'll find out more information about this program over the next few months.

 

[travelhacker]

Why do you think a majority of people with SO would be better off enrolling with Abound

1) There's a lot more options within Abound.
2) There will be a consolidation of fees (it's possible they do this within VSN, but I think they'd like everyone to move to Abound, so I'm not certain this will happen).
3) Many of the "aspirational" type properties (Ka'anapali, etc) are better off in Abound because they get higher point values than some of the nice, but less aspirational properties (like Kierland). There is an incentive to use the new product.
4) With less availability of the premier VSN properties, it makes more sense for owners of some the other properties to join Abound as well (because of point #1)

So if someone owned at WKORV and really liked Kierland for the occasional trade, they could go and stay in a 2 bedroom for almost 2 weeks rather than the 1 week using the VSN. Because of this, I see the inventory at places like Ka'anapali, WSJ, and Westin Riverfront drying up, therefore most people would be better off with Abound.

I like VSN. Unfortunately for me, I only recently got into it. Having such good access to a lot of great options is remarkable. However, ultimately I think that Abound will be a more attractive product for the majority of owners. Because of that, I think I'll be better off enrolling into Abound.

Sales drives everything and a more attractive product is much easier to sell.

While many Tuggers will feel the impact as the VSN gradually becomes a shell of it's former self (as availability at most properties dries up) as Abound becomes more attractive, I think ultimately the vast majority of owners will be happier within the combined system.

Ultimately, I think Marriott makes the VSN less attractive by virtue of creating a better product for most owners within Abound. Those of us who have seen and taken advantage of the arbitrage opportunities within VSN may be worse off, but at least we'll have more opportunities of places to to trade into with our usage.

 

[dioxide45]

In addition, he states in the video:

One thing to point out. Nothing with your existing ownership changes. All the usage options you have today, all the rights you have, you can continue to use just as you have in the past. We're trying to add additional options to that to make your vacation experiences with us even better. With that, we hope you'll find out more information about this program over the next few months.

Technically this FAQ was written for Marriott owners.

 

[kozykritter]

Technically this FAQ was written for Marriott owners.

In the video he mentions all the owners across all the brands before he says those words so that gives it context here.

 

[byeloe]

3) Many of the "aspirational" type properties (Ka'anapali, etc) are better off in Abound because they get higher point values than some of the nice, but less aspirational properties (like Kierland). There is an incentive to use the new product

Since most vsn owners do not own "aspirational properties" the reverse would be true. They can do better staying in VSN

 

[dioxide45]

3) Many of the "aspirational" type properties (Ka'anapali, etc) are better off in Abound because they get higher point values than some of the nice, but less aspirational properties (like Kierland). There is an incentive to use the new product.

What are the etc? I can't think of many except perhaps Lagunamar.

 

[kozykritter]

1) There's a lot more options within Abound.
2) There will be a consolidation of fees (it's possible they do this within VSN, but I think they'd like everyone to move to Abound, so I'm not certain this will happen).
3) Many of the "aspirational" type properties (Ka'anapali, etc) are better off in Abound because they get higher point values than some of the nice, but less aspirational properties (like Kierland). There is an incentive to use the new product.
4) With less availability of the premier VSN properties, it makes more sense for owners of some the other properties to join Abound as well (because of point #1)

So if someone owned at WKORV and really liked Kierland for the occasional trade, they could go and stay in a 2 bedroom for almost 2 weeks rather than the 1 week using the VSN. Because of this, I see the inventory at places like Ka'anapali, WSJ, and Westin Riverfront drying up, therefore most people would be better off with Abound.

I like VSN. Unfortunately for me, I only recently got into it. Having such good access to a lot of great options is remarkable. However, ultimately I think that Abound will be a more attractive product for the majority of owners. Because of that, I think I'll be better off enrolling into Abound.

Sales drives everything and a more attractive product is much easier to sell.

While many Tuggers will feel the impact as the VSN gradually becomes a shell of it's former self (as availability at most properties dries up) as Abound becomes more attractive, I think ultimately the vast majority of owners will be happier within the combined system.

Ultimately, I think Marriott makes the VSN less attractive by virtue of creating a better product for most owners within Abound. Those of us who have seen and taken advantage of the arbitrage opportunities within VSN may be worse off, but at least we'll have more opportunities of places to to trade into with our usage.

On the subject of consolidated fees, that is a near certainty based upon the post below containing official-looking Marriott/Vistana sales documents (as opposed to homemade sales person docs!) showing the consolidated fees and a footnote that for 2023, all VSN members would pay the consolidated fee dues (regardless of Abound). With the recently posted affiliation agreement making VSN members also MVC exchange members aka Abound, it is extremely likely that same dues fee covers Abound participation by Vistana owners based upon consistent sales presentation information since the soft launch. Hopefully it will also mean just one club fee for dual Vistana-Marriott owners instead of two since both will be using Abound.

CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

Enrollment of a week cannot occur until you agree to the "Terms and Conditions" of the exchange company. Therefore, I am highly skeptical about the "automatic enrollment" representation. I suspect those would pop up when you went to actually elect points for the first time and "activated" your...

tugbbs.com

 

[travelhacker]

What are the etc? I can't think of many except perhaps Lagunamar.

I was thinking of WSJ and even HRA (I've heard it's not that nice, but it would certainly be aspirational for our family to get access to the amenities at Atlantis).

 

[dioxide45]

I was thinking of WSJ and even HRA (I've heard it's not that nice, but it would certainly be aspirational for our family to get access to the amenities at Atlantis).

But you seemed to define aspirational based on them getting higher point values. Right now, that only seems to be limited to the Maui properties and Lagunamar. Harborside can't even participate yet. Perhaps I misunderstood. There is a difference between aspirational and which ones get higher point values. It doesn't necessarily make sense for some owners of aspirational properties to participate in Abound and elect Club Points.

 

[kozykritter]

Here is another FAQ from the MVC website that may help owners feel calmer about the changes:

"Owners at Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club Resorts who do not participate in Abound by Marriott Vacations will continue to use the Vistana Signature Network for internal exchange opportunities at Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club resorts."

 

[travelhacker]

But you seemed to define aspirational based on them getting higher point values. Right now, that only seems to be limited to the Maui properties and Lagunamar. Harborside can't even participate yet. Perhaps I misunderstood. There is a difference between aspirational and which ones get higher point values. It doesn't necessarily make sense for some owners of aspirational properties to participate in Abound and elect Club Points.

Aspirational was meant as a place that your average person would get excited about visiting and less about the number of Abound points you'd get.

If / when HRA / WRF join, I am almost certain they'll be given larger Abound point values than their equivalent in VSN.

WSJ is interesting because the only data point for platinum season that I saw in your spreadsheet (thanks for putting that together!) was a 3BR. As we know the larger units are a bit handicapped within the DP system in terms of the number of points that they generate (i.e. 2 small 1 bedrooms at Kierland will do better than a 2 bedroom lockoff when electing into Abound).

It could also be argued that the gold season weeks you have listed at WSJ are better off within Abound than within the VSN.

A gold plus 3 BR pool villa at Virgin Grand gets 125,000 SO, but will get 4150 DP. This would get them a week at Kierland in a 2 bedroom during Platinum Plus season (in abound) and before they would be shy of that.

When you factor in that they have more trade options by using Abound over the VSN, I think a very high percentage of owners will find that Abound ultimately serves their interests better.

This will be a bit of a prisoner's dilemma. As a whole, I'm not sure that current VSN owners will be better off in abound, but I think there are enough instances of individuals that will be better off electing into Abound that VSN will gradually become a shell of itself.

 

[robertk2012]

So maybe the insider failed reading comprehension and the VSN fees are going away and not the VSN network.

 

[dioxide45]

So maybe the insider failed reading comprehension and the VSN fees are going away and not the VSN network.

That could be it. Or they thought since the VSN fee was going away, so was VSN.

 

[timsi]

How does the banking of Staroptions compare to the banking of MVC points for someone without a status in VSN (and no status in the combined system) ? In VSN I have to pay the banking fees, but I like that the SO are extended for two more years, effectively 2.5 more years of usage from the moment of the extension. I am not sure this will be the case in Abound and I am afraid that if I do not have a clear MVC resort in mind for the next year, and if that week is not easy to book in Abound, I will probably keep booking in VSN where it is easier for me to combine points from other years.

 

[dioxide45]

How does the banking of Staroptions compare to the banking of MVC points for someone without a status in VSN (and no status in the combined system) ? In VSN I have to pay the banking fees, but I like that the SO are extended for two more years, effectively 2.5 more years of usage from the moment of the extension. I am not sure this will be the case in Abound and I am afraid that if I do not have a clear MVC resort in mind for the next year, and if that week is not easy to book in Abound, I will probably keep booking in VSN where it is easier for me to combine points from other years.

If you elect Abound Club Points in the future, those can be banked for 1, 1.5 or 2 years depending on your status in Abound. StarOptions always are banked for two years and I wouldn't expect that to change.

 

[VacationForever]

I find the following FAQ interesting:
Will the affliation of the VSN with Abound by Marriott Vacations impact Owner benefit levels?

• The affiliation itself will not impact Owner benefit levels.
• However, if you are an Owner who owns inventory with Marriott Vacation Club and also owns VOIs with Sheraton Vacation Club or Westin Vacation Club that are enrolled in VSN— which is now affiliated with Abound — it is possible that your Owner benefit level could go up, based on the total election value of all your ownership across all affiliated brands.
• Whether the election value of Sheraton Vacation Club and/or Westin Vacation Club VOIs may be added to your existing Marriott Vacation Club vacation interests depends on factors such as how you took title of the different VOIs and inventory owned across the affiliated brands.

Bullet 2 says if you are enrolled in VSN, the it is "possible" that your Owner benefit level could go up, based on total election value... So if I don't elect for that year, does my benefit level go down? Note that resale mandatory Vistana weeks are enrolled in VSN, this means that these are all eligible for election.

Bullet 3 says, it depends on how you took title, basically they are trying to differentiate between direct-bought/retro'ed vs. resale. Maybe resale cannot participate, or maybe that resale mandatory can "elect" but MVC "vacation interest" is really to determine elite/ownership level and that resale ownership cannot be used to determine elite/ownership level.

 

[kozykritter]

You have to remember that those answers were written to address the questions of MVC owners, not Vistana owners so it wouldn't really address some of the subtle burning questions we Vistana owners still have.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I guess we don’t have wagering type of folks here - lots of bluster though.


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[Eric B]

The break up of Base Exchange Benefits and Base Plus Exchange Benefits based on purchase source in section IV.H. might be the key discriminator for resale mandatory weeks. It’s covered on page 12 and allows the Exchange Company to otherwise grant Base Plus Exchange Benefits to program members at its discretion, which could include mandatory resale ownerships held before August 9th, 2022, as has been posted elsewhere.

Base Exchange Benefits are defined on page 21 and allow booking in the Open Reservation Period, defined on page 25 as 60 days prior to check in.

Base Plus Exchange Benefits are defined on page 21 and include all the reservation periods, which work out to be the ones based on ownership tier level.

In my estimation, future mandatory resale ownerships will probably be in the program officially in order to satisfy that aspect of their mandatory nature, but have very limited utility. There’s also the possibility of paying an initiation fee similar to resale points.

 

[kozykritter]

I posted a copy of the Abound FAQs from the MVC owner's website. As mentioned, they are written to address the questions of MVC owners primarily so might not have all the answer you seek.

CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

Here's a new FAQ from the MVC website concerning Abound and booking windows for Vistana inventory: Can Owners use Club Points to reserve a stay at a Sheraton Vacation Club or a Westin Vacation Club resort 13 months prior to arrival? No. Owners can reserve a Sheraton Vacation Club or Westin...

tugbbs.com

 

[dioxide45]

I guess we don’t have wagering type of folks here - lots of bluster though.


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I don't think anyone disagreed with you, thus they wouldn't place the bet. Most expected the "insider" was wrong.

 

[wjarcher]

Bullet 2 says if you are enrolled in VSN, the it is "possible" that your Owner benefit level could go up, based on total election value... So if I don't elect for that year, does my benefit level go down? Note that resale mandatory Vistana weeks are enrolled in VSN, this means that these are all eligible for election.

If going by what the destination club does today, the owner benefit level is determined by the total number of potential points eligible for election, not by the points you actually elect.