• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Vistana Update from Marriott Insider

Status
Not open for further replies.

dsmrp

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2014
Messages
2,531
Reaction score
1,850
Location
MI Washington
Resorts Owned
Sheraton Vistana, Waikoloa Bay Club, Hyatt Pinon Pt
If Staroptions go away it would contradict the statements of Vistana owners being able to be book Vistana resorts like they do now and ultimately be subject to that skim.
This is my concern as well if star options and the current Vistana internal exchange rates will cease to exist. It is to Marriott's advantage to do away with star options exchanging, because it'll cost owners more than currently to reserve Vistana units in Abound. This will be a consequence of lower resort unit valuations in Abound and skim. And may force Vistana owners to buy more DC pts in order to reserve in the future what they can reserve now.
 

5finny

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
727
Reaction score
319
So any Vistana week that had value solely or mostly because it was mandatory has lost that value as of 8/8
Even if my Vistana Villages Key West week makes the 8/8 cut it will have already lost most of it's resale value
Also looks like that part of the new Abound system that is the remnant of the old Star Option system will slowly wither on the vine as existing mandatory weeks are sold or fully converted into the new Abound
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
50,725
Reaction score
22,215
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
I think WKV platinum weeks will still have good resale value because they command high rental rates.
Perhaps, but only a small slice of people are buying them to use to rent. Many buy WKV because of the low MF to SO ratio. If they strip StarOptions away, you are only left with those interested in buying in order to rent. It takes out a huge swath of demand for the resort.
 

DanCali

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
4,637
Reaction score
1,931
Resorts Owned
Vistana, Marriott, DVC
Update on questions asked above.

INSIDER: BTW, every VSN member is enrolled in Abound. You decide if you want to use it but you WILL be paying the new ABOUND fee in place of the VSN fee regardless of whether you use Abound or just use your Vistana week.

[Definition: VSN members own deeds with Staroptions.]

I am not sure why this insider's message is more valuable than others', but I also don't know who he/she is.

My 2 cents.... We have seen a lot of posts from owners told by various salespeople that VSN will continue just as it was. This makes more sense to me and is in line with how the Florida Club continues to exist for Marriott FL weeks alongside Abound.

The claim that VSN members will be "automatically" enrolled makes me question much of this info, because it seems unrealistic. Enrollment into the DC Exchange (aka Abound) requires owners to sign an official Enrollment Agreement. You cannot enroll any developer or resale week into Abound without agreeing to those terms and conditions. Unless the VSN agreement is 100% identical, and it's not, I don't see how they can get around this and enroll automatically. Unless "automatically" is just a figure of speech and means eligible for enrollment without conditions...


1661049849594.png
 

RunCat

Guest
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Messages
420
Reaction score
219
Location
Boulder County, CO.
Resorts Owned
HPP, Sheraton Flex.
But what chart are those reservations based on? The StarOption chart or Abound point values?
If it is flex, then the relative point values cannot easily change (assuming it is a real estate trust) since that could enable the overselling of points.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
1,227
Reaction score
847
Resorts Owned
Westin KORVN and Lagunamar
I was thinking that the resale value of our developer purchase of WKORVN was already at rock bottom but now I think I was wrong. I think I need to stop thinking :giggle:
 

robertk2012

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
286
Reaction score
175
Resorts Owned
Sheraton Villages, Westin Kanapalli
Is this the same insider that stated that mandatory properties would not qualify and that we must hurry to purchase something to bring them in the system?
 

robertk2012

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
286
Reaction score
175
Resorts Owned
Sheraton Villages, Westin Kanapalli
You deleted multiple post of mine questioning the previous information that is now contradicted by this insider. Your previous insider used you to push the narrative that was best for sales. I at no point "attacked" anyone unlike your name calling. Again until I see it in writing and in contracts it is all rumors and hearsay.


The key word is "attack." The last time I posted "insider" info, there were some nasty posts directed at the insider by people who had no idea what they were even talking about. I expect a spirited debate about the upcoming changes, but attacking the source (or me), because you don't like the upcoming changes is just stupid.

Did you notice how long it's been since I posted info about this? It's because some people acted like jack asses last time.

Don't shoot the messenger!
 

pchung6

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
1,132
Reaction score
580
Location
Carlsbad, CA
Resorts Owned
WKORVN-OF, SVVx3, SBP, MKO-OV, MWR
I thought in the last earnings call, Marriott Timeshare CEO confirmed that nothing will change but Abound is just another layer on top of Staroptions. May I ask who is the “Insider”?
 

bizaro86

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
3,888
Reaction score
2,757
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
The reason the mandatory units are called mandatory is that VSN membership is required for resale owners. If they replace VSN with Abound it seems to me that Abound would then be mandatory?

I agree that the last insider information seemed designed to push people to upgrade before a deadline, while this seems designed to scare people away from resale mandatory units. Obviously nobody except Denise knows the identity/role of these insiders, which is a key factor in evaluating the information. Seems like generally we'll just need to be patient.
 

Eric B

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
6,155
Reaction score
5,852
Resorts Owned
Vacation Village, Wyndham, WorldMark, Vistana, Vidanta, Flora Farms, HGVC Max, and some independents
The reason the mandatory units are called mandatory is that VSN membership is required for resale owners. If they replace VSN with Abound it seems to me that Abound would then be mandatory?

I agree that the last insider information seemed designed to push people to upgrade before a deadline, while this seems designed to scare people away from resale mandatory units. Obviously nobody except Denise knows the identity/role of these insiders, which is a key factor in evaluating the information. Seems like generally we'll just need to be patient.

We don’t actually have to be patient; we just have to wait. Those of us that are patient are probably better off, though…. ;)
 

bizaro86

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
3,888
Reaction score
2,757
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
We don’t actually have to be patient; we just have to wait. Those of us that are patient are probably better off, though…. ;)

Lol. Indeed. I suppose it would be more accurately stated that we have to wait, and have a choice between sound and furry vs patience. Probably the first isn't a productive use of time or energy...

Speaking only for myself if they neuter my sdo too badly I'll just deposit it into MVW's low cost inventory recapture program...

I do feel bad for those who own expensive mandatory units if this comes to pass.
 

Eric B

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
6,155
Reaction score
5,852
Resorts Owned
Vacation Village, Wyndham, WorldMark, Vistana, Vidanta, Flora Farms, HGVC Max, and some independents
Lol. Indeed. I suppose it would be more accurately stated that we have to wait, and have a choice between sound and furry vs patience. Probably the first isn't a productive use of time or energy...

Speaking only for myself if they neuter my sdo too badly I'll just deposit it into MVW's low cost inventory recapture program...

I do feel bad for those who own expensive mandatory units if this comes to pass.

Kind of happy that I have low cost mandatory weeks and some that I can rent for more than MFs. If I come out with Abound I should be ~Presidential level and will likely be a Marriott fan — if not, life will go on without Abound getting my weeks.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
50,725
Reaction score
22,215
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
I am not sure why this insider's message is more valuable than others', but I also don't know who he/she is.

My 2 cents.... We have seen a lot of posts from owners told by various salespeople that VSN will continue just as it was. This makes more sense to me and is in line with how the Florida Club continues to exist for Marriott FL weeks alongside Abound.

The claim that VSN members will be "automatically" enrolled makes me question much of this info, because it seems unrealistic. Enrollment into the DC Exchange (aka Abound) requires owners to sign an official Enrollment Agreement. You cannot enroll any developer or resale week into Abound without agreeing to those terms and conditions. Unless the VSN agreement is 100% identical, and it's not, I don't see how they can get around this and enroll automatically. Unless "automatically" is just a figure of speech and means eligible for enrollment without conditions...


View attachment 63051
I am wondering though if this is somehow different with VSN and MVCD signing the Master Affiliation Agreement. Perhaps that supersedes the need for individual members to actively enroll their ownership. It seems that the conduet to Abound is through VSN and not one's individual weeks like it was with Marriott. Just guessing here as to some possibilities.
 

cacain119

Guest
Joined
May 17, 2022
Messages
4
Reaction score
6
For what it is worth, we recently purchased WKV resale and were notified on 8/18 that the ownership transfer was complete (after the 8/8 cutoff the insider refers to). As of today, I'm able to see StarOption balances through 2025 and was able to book a week at Mission Hills in January. If they are planning any radical changes to mandatory resorts and their ability to use StarOptions, it has not taken place yet.
 

Helios

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
2,297
Reaction score
134
I am not sure why this insider's message is more valuable than others', but I also don't know who he/she is.

My 2 cents.... We have seen a lot of posts from owners told by various salespeople that VSN will continue just as it was. This makes more sense to me and is in line with how the Florida Club continues to exist for Marriott FL weeks alongside Abound.

The claim that VSN members will be "automatically" enrolled makes me question much of this info, because it seems unrealistic. Enrollment into the DC Exchange (aka Abound) requires owners to sign an official Enrollment Agreement. You cannot enroll any developer or resale week into Abound without agreeing to those terms and conditions. Unless the VSN agreement is 100% identical, and it's not, I don't see how they can get around this and enroll automatically. Unless "automatically" is just a figure of speech and means eligible for enrollment without conditions...
Totally agree with this
 

Helios

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
2,297
Reaction score
134
seems like more than a few people have a "trusted" insider. Somewhat conflicting information coming out. We should have a pole to see which one is correct in the end:ROFLMAO: My money is on none
I think the winner should get a pre 8/8 unqualified Mandatory unit.:cool:
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
58,503
Reaction score
10,334
Location
Northern, CA
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim) NEW: 2 Lawa'i Beach Resort!
For what it is worth, we recently purchased WKV resale and were notified on 8/18 that the ownership transfer was complete (after the 8/8 cutoff the insider refers to). As of today, I'm able to see StarOption balances through 2025 and was able to book a week at Mission Hills in January. If they are planning any radical changes to mandatory resorts and their ability to use StarOptions, it has not taken place yet.

Per post #1 - the new program won't roll out until Sept. or Oct., so we are all still seeing the regular Vistana program.
 

TJALB

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
157
Reaction score
20
Location
Arizona
Resorts Owned
Diamond Resorts International/Sheraton:
Kaanapali Beach Club, HGV-Max
Westin/Ventana/Marriott-Bonvoy:
Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas NORTH
Per post #1 - the new program won't roll out until Sept. or Oct., so we are all still seeing the regular Vistana program.
Thank you. I’ll be watching for info in the upcoming months.
 

DanCali

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
4,637
Reaction score
1,931
Resorts Owned
Vistana, Marriott, DVC
Per post #1 - the new program won't roll out until Sept. or Oct., so we are all still seeing the regular Vistana program.

This is what the CEO said on June 16 Investor Day. This is the ultimate insider...

To me this doesn't sound like SVN is going away, and it also doesn't sound like enrollment will be automatic. But I suppose it is possible to interpret that differently.


Transcript by Rev.com Page 15 of 48 (https://ir.marriottvacationsworldwide.com/static-files/c255b213-f4b8-4090-9cfc-587aef00af3b)

Steve Weisz:
I'll start with the first part and then we'll ask Lori to chime in on the second part. There is no question that when you have three different platforms, whether it be Marriott Vacation Club, Westin Vacation Club, or Sheraton Vacation Club, they were all started in different iterations, different currencies, etc. Trying to find the common denominator between those and make sure that no one is disadvantaged as a result of joining Abound, which in fact is just another overlay. It’s another use option that you have. If I’m a Sheraton member and I don’t choose to become a member of Abound, that’s fine, I still have everything that I bought, but if you’re a member of Abound, what happens is there’s a currency translation for what was Sheraton currency now into the Abound currency. So there’s the mental gymnastics of going through how you control inventory and point levels and all the other things. There’s also the regulatory side of things, our legal department working with not only our team, but also some outside entities, have worked very hard to make sure that we can get to this point without tripping over anything, because let's face it, timeshare is a regulated real estate product. So you have to go through those kinds of things. Then of course, there's the whole communication.; internally communicating and training our associates about what's different about Abound versus what they were selling before. And also how we communicate that to our owners so that they understand what benefits are going to come to them as a result of choosing to avail themselves of the Abound opportunity.

 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
50,725
Reaction score
22,215
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
I don’t choose to become a member of Abound, that’s fine, I still have everything that I bought,
But I guess the question is, what is the definition of "everything I bought"? Does that include StarOptions? Maybe it is just the week you own? I suspect however that nothing is happening to StarOptions and we haven't heard anything new from the "insider" about that. Sometimes I consider sales to be just as outside, if not more, than those of us on TUG. THey aren't spending this time analyzing everything, including recorded documents and analyst calls to draw reasonable conclusions.
 

DanCali

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
4,637
Reaction score
1,931
Resorts Owned
Vistana, Marriott, DVC
But I guess the question is, what is the definition of "everything I bought"? Does that include StarOptions? Maybe it is just the week you own?

That's exactly why I said I suppose it is possible to interpret differently. In fact, I agree that what you bought is a week in a season not the exchange company per se, although it is part of the closing docs.

But the statements like Abound, is just another overlay. It’s another use option that you have. and make sure that no one is disadvantaged as a result of joining Abound are harder to say with a straight face if (i) you are taking SVN away along with some like-for-like exchange opportunities that will be gone (e.g., Plat WKV = Plat WMH = Plat WKORV), and (ii) taking away the mandatory nature of mandatory weeks upon subsequent resales, thus dropping the resale values of those mandatory weeks substantially as a result. Would anyone still pay $35K for WKORV OF weeks if they don't come with 176.7K SOs (or 8000+ Abound points) via resale?

But anything is possible, I guess.
 

robertk2012

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
286
Reaction score
175
Resorts Owned
Sheraton Villages, Westin Kanapalli
Why add the 2025 star options to the website if that is going away in just a couple months. I know this is Marriott but that makes no sense.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top