Vistana Update from Marriott Insider

[robertk2012]

I believe that if 1) Mandatory resorts are automatically eligible for abound without an additional purchase and 2) VSN is not removed that a certain mod owes many of us a public apology.

I was harassed and called names just because I disagreed that the “insider” statements and that until anything was released officially we didn’t know for certain. Because I discouraged this fear buying a large number of my posts were deleted.

It is clear that those in sales read the forum and will play off any motivation that will help them with a sale. It is also clear that the misinformation is organized. There is no way so many random salespeople would feed the same lines otherwise.

 

[rcv82]

I hope I am wrong, but the only reason I can see that the would let unrequalified mandatory resales (and not voluntary resales) use Abound exchanges is if they plan to eventually get rid of VSN. Abound becomes the new “club”. This would basically eliminate the difference between Marriott and Vistana enrolled weeks, simplifying administration and inventory control. And at least in my read of the CCRs it seems to me they could do this.

If they are going to keep VSN, why give some resale owners Abound access (and status) for free and not others? (Fee simplification, meaning only one club fee structure, could be one reason, but doesn’t seem like a good enough reason.)

I happen to like VSN a lot, even if my primary usage is to convert week stays at a home resort to shorter stays for skiing.

So I wouldn’t be too quick to dismiss the OP’s insider information.


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[remowidget]

I was thinking of WSJ and even HRA (I've heard it's not that nice, but it would certainly be aspirational for our family to get access to the amenities at Atlantis).

We have been to both and they were one and done as far as we are concerned. For us you are correct, they were aspirational properties. However, they were only aspirational to us because we were Vistana owners looking at where we could go. I think we would have had zero desire to go to either if we hadn't been Vistana owners. Atlantis was cool, but nothing like Orlando has to offer. WSJ did have some good snorkeling, but everything was very expensive and the bugs were voracious. I have met people who love both properties, but everyone has different priorities.

 

[remowidget]

If / when HRA / WRF join, I am almost certain they'll be given larger Abound point values than their equivalent in VSN.

I don't know about WRF, but I have seen full availability at HRA a lot of times when I was trying to find nonexistant availability at Lagunamar.

 

[rcv82]

I don't know about WRF, but I have seen full availability at HRA a lot of times when I was trying to find nonexistant availability at Lagunamar.

During prime ski season, WRF is probably the hardest property in the system to get into—basically impossible with StarOptions unless you luck upon a cancellation. Not only is it highly desirable for skiing Beaver Creek, but it only has 34 lock-off units. The majority of the property is a hotel.


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[dioxide45]

It looks like the insider was right about the 8/8 day, or at least close. Technically on or before 8/8. Also no Abound for those purchased after 8/8. We just don't know what is the definitive factor for "purchased".

 

[Jayco29D]

I understand that a key question is whether mandatory resales enrolled by 8/8 will be eligible to use Abound without any additional purchase. This is a key question for me as an owner of a mandatory resale.

My other question is why wouldn’t Marriott be able to “dismantle” VSN for mandatory resorts after 8/8? Is there something in the legal documents that says VSN will always exist for mandatory resorts? Or is this something that is implied because mandatory resorts pay a VSN fee?

 

[dioxide45]

I understand that a key question is whether mandatory resales enrolled by 8/8 will be eligible to use Abound without any additional purchase. This is a key question for me as an owner of a mandatory resale.

My other question is why wouldn’t Marriott be able to “dismantle” VSN for mandatory resorts after 8/8? Is there something in the legal documents that says VSN will always exist for mandatory resorts? Or is this something that is implied because mandatory resorts pay a VSN fee?

The thinking here is that conduit into Abound is through an affiliation agreement between VSN and MVCDE (aka Abound). Without VSN, there is no way for Vistana owners to be members of Abound. VSN is the underpinning of Vistana owners to use Abound. So VSN will live on and thus mandatory resorts and their owners are required to be members of VSN.

 

[DeniseM]

I understand that a key question is whether mandatory resales enrolled by 8/8 will be eligible to use Abound without any additional purchase. This is a key question for me as an owner of a mandatory resale.

YES

 

[kozykritter]

I understand that a key question is whether mandatory resales enrolled by 8/8 will be eligible to use Abound without any additional purchase. This is a key question for me as an owner of a mandatory resale.

Understandably. The brief info on the Vistana website says those resales will have the opportunity to elect Club Points (aka use Abound) and also have their ownership count towards recognition levels. What it doesn't say is what the owner has to do to take advantage of the opportunity (enrollment fee, purchase, other action, nothing, etc). Maybe they will address this in the Abound FAQs list on the site which is currently displaying a blank page.

 

[dioxide45]

Understandably. The brief info on the Vistana website says those resales will have the opportunity to elect Club Points (aka use Abound) and also have their ownership count towards recognition levels. What it doesn't say is what the owner has to do to take advantage of the opportunity (enrollment fee, purchase, other action, nothing, etc). Maybe they will address this in the Abound FAQs list on the site which is currently displaying a blank page.

I have clicked that FAQ link many times this morning. I am sure I am now the one breaking it every time! At least I haven't take the whole site with it.

 

[kozykritter]

I have clicked that FAQ link many times this morning. I am sure I am now the one breaking it every time! At least I haven't take the whole site with it.

Me too! So we are the collective problem

 

[grrrah]

Understandably. The brief info on the Vistana website says those resales will have the opportunity to elect Club Points (aka use Abound) and also have their ownership count towards recognition levels. What it doesn't say is what the owner has to do to take advantage of the opportunity (enrollment fee, purchase, other action, nothing, etc). Maybe they will address this in the Abound FAQs list on the site which is currently displaying a blank page.

Nice about them counting toward recognition levels. Does anyone know how EOY weeks count toward recognition tiers? Are they points halved, or get the full credit for that year (and kept for non-use years)?

Just piecing things together, it sounds like Marriott could transition/dissolve VSN into Abound but that would require future resales to be mandatory enrolled. But this way they can allow current VSN members free access, but future resale purchases would need to buy more to have access, and at the same time somehow try to weaken the attractiveness of VSN to encourage more enrollment/purchases in the future.

 

[dioxide45]

Nice about them counting toward recognition levels. Does anyone know how EOY weeks count toward recognition tiers? Are they points halved, or get the full credit for that year (and kept for non-use years)?

The annual points are halved.

Just piecing things together, it sounds like Marriott could transition/dissolve VSN into Abound but that would require future resales to be mandatory enrolled. But this way they can allow current VSN members free access, but future resale purchases would need to buy more to have access, and at the same time somehow try to weaken the attractiveness of VSN to encourage more enrollment/purchases in the future.

They could dissolve VSN, but that would eliminate the entire foundation of Vistana owners being able to participate in Abound. VSN is the gateway into Abound through the Master Affiliation Agreement between VSN and Abound.

 

[Jayco29D]

The annual points are halved.


They could dissolve VSN, but that would eliminate the entire foundation of Vistana owners being able to participate in Abound. VSN is the gateway into Abound through the Master Affiliation Agreement between VSN and Abound.

Has a master affiliation agreement between VSN and Abound been published that explains how it works?

I have seen Tug members posting various points from legal documents but the explanations have been so confusing.

 

[dioxide45]

Has a master affiliation agreement between VSN and Abound been published that explains how it works?

I have seen Tug members posting various points from legal documents but the explanations have been so confusing.

 

[JIMinNC]

I don't believe what @dioxide45 just posted is the actual Master Affiliation Agreement. I think the above PDF has something to do with the legalities involved in modifying the Timeshare Plan and deeding Vistana weeks to the MVC Trust. The PDF above actually references the Affiliation Agreement, but I'm not sure if the full agreement has been disclosed anywhere yet, unless it is somewhere in the info VSN Owners have access to. Since that Agreement is what allows VSN Members to play in Abound, it might eventually get posted on the VSN side.

 

[kozykritter]

I don't believe what @dioxide45 just posted is the actual Master Affiliation Agreement. I think the above PDF has something to do with the legalities involved in modifying the Timeshare Plan and deeding Vistana weeks to the MVC Trust. The PDF above actually references the Affiliation Agreement, but I'm not sure if the full agreement has been disclosed anywhere yet, unless it is somewhere in the info VSN Owners have access to. Since that Agreement is what allows VSN Members to play in Abound, it might eventually get posted on the VSN side.

 

[dioxide45]

I don't believe what @dioxide45 just posted is the actual Master Affiliation Agreement. I think the above PDF has something to do with the legalities involved in modifying the Timeshare Plan and deeding Vistana weeks to the MVC Trust. The PDF above actually references the Affiliation Agreement, but I'm not sure if the full agreement has been disclosed anywhere yet, unless it is somewhere in the info VSN Owners have access to. Since that Agreement is what allows VSN Members to play in Abound, it might eventually get posted on the VSN side.

Goog point. We will probably never see such Master Affiliation Agreement.

 

[JIMinNC]

Have you read the Abound Exchange Procedures document already? Marriott released it yesterday. It may hold the language that you're looking for.

Yes I have, but that is not the Master Affiliation Agreement between VSN and the MVC Exchange Company. That is a separate agreement that has not been seen yet, to my knowledge.

 

[JIMinNC]

Goog point. We will probably never see such Master Affiliation Agreement.

Normally, I think that's right, and it would never be made public. On the other hand, in this case, it seems that Affiliation Agreement is what conveys VSN Members' rights to be a member of Abound. As a result, VSN Members don't have to execute an individual Enrollment Agreement as MVC weeks owners do. So maybe that fact might dictate that the Affiliation Agreement becomes public. But who knows? I'm just guessing, obviously.

 

[timsi]

I don't believe what @dioxide45 just posted is the actual Master Affiliation Agreement. I think the above PDF has something to do with the legalities involved in modifying the Timeshare Plan and deeding Vistana weeks to the MVC Trust. The PDF above actually references the Affiliation Agreement, but I'm not sure if the full agreement has been disclosed anywhere yet, unless it is somewhere in the info VSN Owners have access to. Since that Agreement is what allows VSN Members to play in Abound, it might eventually get posted on the VSN side.

The document posted refers to members not units/ contracts who are part of VSN that became affiliated to ABOUND. It is probably wishful thinking but it could mean that if you currently have any unit in VSN, you can enroll all resale units in Abound.

 

[kozykritter]

The document posted refers to members not units/ contracts who are part of VSN that became affiliated to ABOUND. It is probably wishful thinking but it could mean that if you currently have any unit in VSN, you can enroll all resale units in Abound.

Definitely wishful thinking because you're pushing hard in all your posts for your dream of them letting you enroll all your resale units into Abound! And why not? In the absence of facts, hope is all we really have

 

[timsi]

Definitely wishful thinking because you're pushing hard in all your posts for your dream of them letting you enroll all your resale units into Abound! And why not? In the absence of facts, hope is all we really have

You off target with your comment. I would not mind having them in Abound for convenience and I would be at the Presidential level but when I look at the points chart I find everything very expensive and I know we would not use Abound much. A "dream"? Very, very far from it.

 

[Jayco29D]

Normally, I think that's right, and it would never be made public. On the other hand, in this case, it seems that Affiliation Agreement is what conveys VSN Members' rights to be a member of Abound. As a result, VSN Members don't have to execute an individual Enrollment Agreement as MVC weeks owners do. So maybe that fact might dictate that the Affiliation Agreement becomes public. But who knows? I'm just guessing, obviously.

So what document says that VSN needs to exist for mandatory resale owners to use it long term?

Just to clarify, does the 8/8 date mean mandatory resale owners lose their ability to trade in SOs? Or does it mean they will not be able to enroll for free in Abound?

I get confused with all the back and forth and speculation vs facts. It seems some facts exist in various documents Marriott has released but there are still issues of interpretation of what it means to Vistana owners.

Wouldn’t mandatory resale owners represent a small population? It seems like extra cost and logistics to keep VSN alive after Abound is launched.