Recent Owner Updates With Tales of Vistana/MVC Merger

[DanV]

There will absolutely be no 1:1 conversion ratio from StarOptions to Marriott DC points. Not a chance. More like 30:1 or even worse.

Sorry, my writing regarding the 1:1 was not clear. There will not be a 1:1 StarOption to Marriott DC point exchange, that is correct. What I meant to relay is that there may not be a 1 night : 1 night exchange. In other words, it might take 9 or 10 nights worth of StarOptions from a "less valuable property" for a week in a Marriott property presumably even in the same "season".

 

[controller1]

Sorry, my writing regarding the 1:1 was not clear. There will not be a 1:1 StarOption to Marriott DC point exchange, that is correct. What I meant to relay is that there may not be a 1 night : 1 night exchange. In other words, it might take 9 or 10 nights worth of StarOptions from a "less valuable property" for a week in a Marriott property presumably even in the same "season".

Yes I worry about all the advice being given to newbies on TUG to purchase SVV (Bella & Key West) and/or WKV to trade into Maui. I think we may want to indicate this 1:1 trading ability may be short-lived as I'm sure MVW is working to close what MVW may consider as the ability of Vistana owners to unfairly leverage those two relatively inexpensive resorts for the more expensive Maui resorts.

 

[robertk2012]

I doubt that Marriott is too worried that much about SVV or WKV. No additional inventory can be created and they could always buy up those units and put them in one of the trusts.

 

[robertk2012]

................

 

[robertk2012]

Sorry, my writing regarding the 1:1 was not clear. There will not be a 1:1 StarOption to Marriott DC point exchange, that is correct. What I meant to relay is that there may not be a 1 night : 1 night exchange. In other words, it might take 9 or 10 nights worth of StarOptions from a "less valuable property" for a week in a Marriott property presumably even in the same "season".

This is already the case.

 

[FC3]

Sorry, my writing regarding the 1:1 was not clear. There will not be a 1:1 StarOption to Marriott DC point exchange, that is correct. What I meant to relay is that there may not be a 1 night : 1 night exchange. In other words, it might take 9 or 10 nights worth of StarOptions from a "less valuable property" for a week in a Marriott property presumably even in the same "season".

It is close, 32:1 on the points. So 81K converts to about 2500 DP allowing for 7nights 2BD at say Florida properties but it appears there is a fee for exchange leaving you about 200DP short of 7 nights. The same with a 2BD in Maui 148100 SO to 4628 DP leaving you 200 to 2500 DP short depending if you want to book Ocean View or IV. It's a lame deal, 28-30:1 would be more fair but my guess is we will never see that as long as people are buying?

 

[Mowogo]

Yes I worry about all the advice being given to newbies on TUG to purchase SVV (Bella & Key West) and/or WKV to trade into Maui. I think we may want to indicate this 1:1 trading ability may be short-lived as I'm sure MVW is working to close what MVW may consider as the ability of Vistana owners to unfairly leverage those two relatively inexpensive resorts for the more expensive Maui resorts.

I truly believe that MVW is taking advantage of this opportunity to starve all of the retail gamesmanship of the Mandatory properties. I wouldn't be surprised if it is retail flex owners, with possibly some retail weeks owners switching from VSN as the internal exchange to DC as the internal exchange. VSN would still exist to satisfy the Mandatory owners, but it would start the starvation and many people might actually bite and upgrade into the unified product just to access places they used to use VSN to exchange into but now have been starved of inventory. The time has been making sure to review all the contracts to make sure they can get away with that swap.

 

[cubigbird]

I truly believe that MVW is taking advantage of this opportunity to starve all of the retail gamesmanship of the Mandatory properties. I wouldn't be surprised if it is retail flex owners, with possibly some retail weeks owners switching from VSN as the internal exchange to DC as the internal exchange. VSN would still exist to satisfy the Mandatory owners, but it would start the starvation and many people might actually bite and upgrade into the unified product just to access places they used to use VSN to exchange into but now have been starved of inventory. The time has been making sure to review all the contracts to make sure they can get away with that swap.

That’s why we own where we want to travel to.

 

[CPNY]

I truly believe that MVW is taking advantage of this opportunity to starve all of the retail gamesmanship of the Mandatory properties. I wouldn't be surprised if it is retail flex owners, with possibly some retail weeks owners switching from VSN as the internal exchange to DC as the internal exchange. VSN would still exist to satisfy the Mandatory owners, but it would start the starvation and many people might actually bite and upgrade into the unified product just to access places they used to use VSN to exchange into but now have been starved of inventory. The time has been making sure to review all the contracts to make sure they can get away with that swap.

Sounds about right. One way to flag any eligible owner to convert into the CC program would be if their StarOption unit is currently eligible to be converted to bonvoy points. That signifies it being a developer purchase or resale week that has been brought into the network via a new purchase to retro the resale.

I think some people would bite and give back what they own and buy “up” for the ability to book Marriott units directly via points. As someone who only wants the Caribbean, I may be in luck. Marriott hasn’t taken any harborside units back. This is mostly likely due to the fact that they currently own enough inventory and the transfer/lawyer fee in the Bahamas is astronomical. I suspect that plenty of owner inventory would stay in the VSN for that resort. As far as WSJ, inventory currently is nearly impossible at 8 months so I don’t see much change there.

 

[Mowogo]

Message Deleted

 

[pchung6]

I truly believe that MVW is taking advantage of this opportunity to starve all of the retail gamesmanship of the Mandatory properties. I wouldn't be surprised if it is retail flex owners, with possibly some retail weeks owners switching from VSN as the internal exchange to DC as the internal exchange. VSN would still exist to satisfy the Mandatory owners, but it would start the starvation and many people might actually bite and upgrade into the unified product just to access places they used to use VSN to exchange into but now have been starved of inventory. The time has been making sure to review all the contracts to make sure they can get away with that swap.

I doubt MVC would worry too much of the small percentage of mandatory owners. There are just so many of SVV or WKV platinum weeks and Vistana stopped it long ago. If I'm the management of MVC, I rather utilize the resources to make the program more appealing than deal with this small mandatory group. In the long run, mandatory owners will slowly trade in or turn in, so why penalize them and face possible legal actions?

 

[CPNY]

I doubt MVC would worry too much of the small percentage of mandatory owners. There are just so many of SVV or WKV platinum weeks and Vistana stopped it long ago. If I'm the management of MVC, I rather utilize the resources to make the program more appealing than deal with this small mandatory group. In the long run, mandatory owners will slowly trade in or turn in, so why penalize them and face possible legal actions?

And why piss off potential customers?

 

[bward]

I recently had an Owners Update. We own 67,000 mandatory S.O at Vistana Villages Bella.
I've had it for 20 years, and obviously found out after the recision deadline that we didn't buy enough, found TUG, resisted upgrades ever since, that's all a story for another day, and one that I think is familiar to many reading this.
So, at our meeting, I was told that we wouldn't be pressured into buying anything that day (that was something Starwood did), we would be given information about the exciting new programs and we would have until December to decide what we want to do..
Bottom line, they were trying to get me to upgrade (by selling my week to them ) and buying 81,000 S.O. at .78/ per Star Option, for a price in excess of $60,000. This was their offer and made with a straight face. They would credit me the $16,000 I paid in 2003, so final cost, somewhere about $45,000.
Or, I could accept an offer made to me that I rejected in ( 2015?) at .38/S.O and I could walk away, by paying roughly $16,000 to upgrade.
Only catch, the $16,000 offer was only good that day. Otherwise I could wait until December and the $45,000 would still be available. But hurry up, that .78/SO will be going up soon!
I had no trouble walking away.
The kicker? On the way out, I was offered a rental week at SVV for $1k plus Bonvoy Points. When I take that week, I was told I would be offered the upgrade again, at the .38/SO level, and they would deduct the $1K vacation. So now we are down to $15k. And....wait for it...I have two years to do all this. What happened to hurry up, today or nothing? What happened to no pressure? I was born at night, but I wasn't born last night.
I know, it's to be expected, but still.
I think my real choice is whether to pack it in and get rid of our timeshare or buy more and continue on. I'm leaning towards the former.
We've had 20 years of great vacations. I love the resorts and never had any real complaints.
I am very concerned that their vacation system will continually change and evolve, making more upgrades (beyond this one) needed. Not to mention the escalating annual fees.
But I'm tired of this.
Our meeting was designed to sell us Westin/Sheraton Flex. I was told the Hilton and Marriott timeshares would be included. And that if I had 81K star options, when the new system was in place, I would no longer have to worry about seasons, or location of resorts, I could use my options at the same level anywhere.
We had a two hour meeting. There was a lot of razzle dazzle with numbers and points and options, but this is basically the distillation of what was offered to us.
If I was on the ball, I would have asked them, "Can you just sell me 16,000 option for .78/SO to get me to $81,000 and take it from there?" I probably would have done that. Honestly, I'd be kicking myself, because I did not really understand, nor was it explained in any great detail, how I could use my option in Flex at places outside of Westin/Starwood. And that means, I probably couldn't. And I'd be making the same mistake I made in 2003.
Instead, I'm probably getting out. Just waiting for the right door to open.

 

[cubigbird]

Hilton is not part of the Marriott system. They are a separate company. If they said that it’s a straight up lie. If you are thinking Hyatt, that’s also not true. While it is true MVW bought Hyatt, we have been told it is not part of any integration and will remain separate.

 

[bward]

Hilton is not part of the Marriott system. They are a separate company. If they said that it’s a straight up lie. If you are thinking Hyatt, that’s also not true. While it is true MVW bought Hyatt, we have been told it is not part of any integration and will remain separate.

The sales Rep clearly said Hilton. I was surprised by that too, but I figured maybe I missed that acquisition by Marriott.
TBH, there was so much being said that didn't sound right, it was getting exhausting.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@bward Your presentation sounds exhausting. You have a valuable mandatory unit that gets 67k Staroptions. If you took a portion of the $45k for the 16k "upgrade" and rented what you needed for the extra nights you would be far ahead. Best part? You can stop renting at any time, or pay cash to rent outside the system - no hassle, no obligations. Stop attending presentations and enjoy your ownership or rental.

At least you can sell or give away your mandatory deeded unit and are protected by Florida law if you cannot sell and must walk. Sheraton Flex resale is worth zilch and you may not have legal protections because it is not deeded like your current unit. You could have had that Flex albatross around your neck for years to come with no clear exit path.

Congrats on missing a bullet.

 

[dioxide45]

Sheraton Flex resale is worth zilch and you may not have legal protections because it is not deeded like your current unit. You could have had that Flex albatross around your neck for years to come with no clear exit path.

From what I understand, Flex Home Options are still deeded in Orange County Florida and go through the same non-judicial foreclosure process as deeded weeks.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

From what I understand, Flex Home Options are still deeded in Orange County Florida and go through the same non-judicial foreclosure process as deeded weeks.

I would hope this is the case. However, the issue is that land trusts contain deeds from states outside of Florida. While there is precedent for a single deed in specific states like Florida. It has been unproven in court which state laws for timeshares prevail when land trusts contain deeds from multiple states. Several lawyers on TUG have agreed on other threads that land trusts are the wild west when it comes to timeshares foreclosures.

IMHO just as developers hopped on the deed bandwagon many years ago, this is the latest design by the developers to prevent people from walking from their TS in the future.

 

[dioxide45]

I would hope this is the case. However, the issue is that land trusts contain deeds from states outside of Florida. While there is precedent for a single deed in specific states like Florida. It has been unproven in court which state laws for timeshares prevail when land trusts contain deeds from multiple states. Several lawyers on TUG have agreed on other threads that land trusts are the wild west when it comes to timeshares foreclosures.

IMHO just as developers hopped on the deed bandwagon many years ago, this is the latest design by the developers to prevent people from walking from their TS in the future.

There have been plenty of liens and foreclosures filed in Orange County for Sheraton Flex. Not sure that they are handled any differently than a weeks based foreclosure.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

There have been plenty of liens and foreclosures filed in Orange County for Sheraton Flex. Not sure that they are handled any differently than a weeks based foreclosure.

Agree. I am not a lawyer but it would be good to see if some of our TUG lawyer community (e.g. @Grammarhero, @Fredflintstone) could research some of these land trust defaults and see if Florida law was applied to these cases (i.e. non-judicial, anti-deficiency protection when there is no objection to foreclosure). If so, this would set a precedent.

Until it is fully settled in the courts, I am wary of land trusts.

 

[RunCat]

Owner's update yesterday. Received 40,000 Bonvoy point for my time. No info on mergers. Did not push the timeshares too much. Most of the presentation was about Bonvoy points. And then to upgrade to convert to points.
I did buy an Explorer package. Offered 4 nights in a studio at the Westin RiverFront (non-winter) + 100,000pts for $995. Seemed like a decent offering. (looking at a late July date and the Marriott website shows $1205 for 4 nights in the studio villa)

 

[PamMo]

Owner's update yesterday. Received 40,000 Bonvoy point for my time...

I feel dissed! I was only offered 25K Bonvoy points (or $150) at MOC for an update.

 

[RunCat]

I feel dissed! I was only offered 25K Bonvoy points (or $150) at MOC for an update.

40,000 is the most I have seen. It might be due to being in low season. Also, when I told the Explorer rep that we would probably come back to Avon (live in CO), the Explorer package offering was reduced by $100 and the points were increased from 50K -> 100K. The bump and the price reduction made the package almost a no-brainer.

 

[dioxide45]

40,000 is the most I have seen. It might be due to being in low season. Also, when I told the Explorer rep that we would probably come back to Avon (live in CO), the Explorer package offering was reduced by $100 and the points were increased from 50K -> 100K. The bump and the price reduction made the package almost a no-brainer.

They have two types of explorer packages. I don't understand the logic of pricing and points on them. One package is for a return to the resort you are touring. This one comes with 100K Bonvoy and is cheaper. The other package is to return to any resort and is only 50K Bonvoy and you can book at any resort.

 

[byeloe]

Did the update at Lagunamar last week. I told the salesman upfront that I could get Aventuras for free, so would not be buying.
Nothing in writing but he said that there will be ability to swap Staroptions at 8 months to access MVC properties. He wasn't sure if resale owners would get access.