Recent Owner Updates With Tales of Vistana/MVC Merger

[CPNY]

I just heard the same thing at Cancun more or less. I inherited a deed for a fixed week (52 in St John no less, lucky me). They want to "consolidate" my ownership to MVC for $15-$24k in exchange for about 150-250k Staroptions. (Options can convert to Bonvoy and Interval, of course) I'm also skeptical that I'll only have the 23 Vistana properties to choose from after the merger, but I guess that could increase the pressure to roll over. I'm taking a wait and see approach while I enjoy my holiday time on the beach.

I wouldn’t give them WSJ back at all

 

[vacationtime1]

I just heard the same thing at Cancun more or less. I inherited a deed for a fixed week (52 in St John no less, lucky me). They want to "consolidate" my ownership to MVC for $15-$24k in exchange for about 150-250k Staroptions. (Options can convert to Bonvoy and Interval, of course) I'm also skeptical that I'll only have the 23 Vistana properties to choose from after the merger, but I guess that could increase the pressure to roll over. I'm taking a wait and see approach while I enjoy my holiday time on the beach.

Good decision.

Welcome to TUG.

 

[cubigbird]

Here’s a new one. At our last owners update they said Vistana’s Mexico inventory - Lagunamar weeks and Aventuras Flex will not be a part of the merged network.

 

[vacationtime1]

Here’s a new one. At our last owners update they said Vistana’s Mexico inventory - Lagunamar weeks and Aventuras Flex will not be a part of the merged network.

That may actually be true. Mexican timeshares are generally RTU's which makes merging them into a US trust problematic.

But the salesperson doesn't know anything more about the contemplated merged network than we do at this point.

 

[cubigbird]

That may actually be true. Mexican timeshares are generally RTU's which makes merging them into a US trust problematic.

But the salesperson doesn't know anything more about the contemplated merged network than we do at this point.

Isn’t that the whole premise about Aventuras, to have its own trust? Couldn’t this be an issue / is an issue with other existing non-US Marriott locations such as Costa Rica, Thailand and Australia? I just couldn’t buy it.

If it is true, why would they be actively selling now a Mexico product that they know wouldn’t be in the network? That would be intentionally misleading.

You are right, it did come from a sales person so I’m careful to not transact based on verbal representations.

 

[vacationtime1]

Isn’t that the whole premise about Aventuras, to have its own trust? Couldn’t this be an issue / is an issue with other existing non-US Marriott locations such as Costa Rica, Thailand and Australia? I just couldn’t buy it.

If it is true, why would they be actively selling now a Mexico product that they know wouldn’t be in the network? That would be intentionally misleading.

You are right, it did come from a sales person so I’m careful to not transact based on verbal representations.

Intentionally misleading?
I'm shocked.
Round up the usual suspects.

 

[CPNY]

That may actually be true. Mexican timeshares are generally RTU's which makes merging them into a US trust problematic.

But the salesperson doesn't know anything more about the contemplated merged network than we do at this point.

Can’t they create something like the VSN and include it that way?

 

[Eric B]

Can’t they create something like the VSN and include it that way?

Isn't there already one? Maybe they could just adjust it.

 

[CPNY]

Isn't there already one? Maybe they could just adjust it.

I’m thinking for the combination program. If they give full access to the VSN to Marriott owners at 8 months, there is no reason to keep ownership. The competition would be too intense. It’s hard enough to get into most resorts at 8 months now. I couldn’t imagine dealing with Marriott owners who would jump at the chance to get into places like WSJ, WLR, HRA, and KAA/KAN.

 

[ocdb8r]

I’m thinking for the combination program. If they give full access to the VSN to Marriott owners at 8 months, there is no reason to keep ownership. The competition would be too intense. It’s hard enough to get into most resorts at 8 months now. I couldn’t imagine dealing with Marriott owners who would jump at the chance to get into places like WSJ, WLR, HRA, and KAA/KAN.

It should cut both ways though...there are a lot of Marriott properties that owners at those Vistana resorts may be enticed to transfer into.

I wouldn't expect there to be much impact on demand for KAA/KAN as there will effectively be 5 Kaanapali resorts across the combined program. WSJ has been much easier to get into since it's been totally transformed into timeshare, and given Marriott has MFC, I also wouldn't expect demand to change there drastically. HRA and WLR are wildcards. HRA is and has always been a unique proposition (although I think Atlantis Bahamas has lost it's luster in the last couple of years). WLR and the other Mexico resorts present a uniquely new destination for MVC owners and I could see a situation where initial demand there is higher than the past....but there is a lot of developer inventory at all the Mexico resorts, aside from WLR, which I think will minimize impact.

 

[cubigbird]

As I mentioned before, sales seems to be under the impression that Mexico - Aventuras and WLR won’t be in the network in the new Marriott combined product. Taking that with a grain of salt of course coming from sales, that contradicts the whole idea of MVW picking up new locations where they currently don’t have a presence. I asked for it in writing and they certainly couldn’t furnish anything. I’m sure they came up with that because I own Mexico and wanted to create a problem.

 

[HankW]

As I mentioned before, sales seems to be under the impression that Mexico - Aventuras and WLR won’t be in the network in the new Marriott combined product. Taking that with a grain of salt of course coming from sales, that contradicts the whole idea of MVW picking up new locations where they currently don’t have a presence. I asked for it in writing and they certainly couldn’t furnish anything. I’m sure they came up with that because I own Mexico and wanted to create a problem.

By leaving Lagunamar and Los Cabos out of the network, is MVC basically saying they are not interested in MVC Resorts in Mexico? What are MVC's current resort projects in Mexico?

I do love going to Lagunamar and Los Cabos resorts twice to three times a year, so far it is working as planned.

For all of us here, especially Mexico owners, is leaving Lagunamar and Los Cabos out of the network something good or bad for VSN owners? VSN Mexico's owner?

 

[cubigbird]

By leaving Lagunamar and Los Cabos out of the network, is MVC basically saying they are not interested in MVC Resorts in Mexico? What are MVC's current resort projects in Mexico?

I do love going to Lagunamar and Los Cabos resorts twice to three times a year, so far it is working as planned.

For all of us here, especially Mexico owners, is leaving Lagunamar and Los Cabos out of the network something good or bad for VSN owners? VSN Mexico's owner?

Remember, this came from sales so we don’t know if this is true. It’s only a verbal representation.

If it were to become true, what would it mean by not “being in the network?”

 

[ocdb8r]

Remember, this came from sales so we don’t know if this is true. It’s only a verbal representation.

If it were to become true, what would it mean by not “being in the network?”

Exactly.

First, it dubious information at best given it came from sales. Second, even if there is a modicum of truth to it, I am sure it's likely another sales misunderstanding or spin on the reality. We already know there may be issues putting Mexico properties into a "Trust" alongside US properties. That in no way precludes them from making arrangements for whatever system is in place to permit ability to trade or book into Mexico resorts (just as SVN has been able to do thus far). To me, it would be LUDICROUS that these properties are completely excluded from whatever MVC/SVN crossover system is put into place. Mexico is the number 1 international travel destination for Americans and a big hole in the MVC portfolio. I can't conceive of any reason MVC would exclude these resorts (given we know there is some legal way to permit some sort of trading given SVN has successfully done it thus far).

 

[dioxide45]

The Mexico properties certainly won't be part of any US based trust, but like the Asia Pacific, Australian, European and now Costa Rica, there is no reason they can't be part of a combined exchange company program.

 

[cubigbird]

The Mexico properties certainly won't be part of any US based trust, but like the Asia Pacific, Australian, European and now Costa Rica, there is no reason they can't be part of a combined exchange company program.

So then what does that look like and mean? Any Mexico resorts would then exchange within their own “mini network” but at 8 months or so out the points could be used to book elsewhere?

 

[rcv82]

It will be interesting to see what they do with this because Vistana and MVC operate so differently. Vistana currently has the various Flex trusts which you are booking your share of the ownership at 8-12 months but only in the resorts of your trust. While it operates very much like the VSN StarOptions, it is legally a very different. The VSN StarOptions are really an exchange currency, and the two could be made to be very different. I don’t understand MVC well, but it appears their trust and enrolled weeks operate largely as one.

One of the big questions in my mind is how things will be valued. All the high seasons in Vistana basically use the same point value at 81k per week for a one bedroom, 148100 for a two bedroom (with some view having higher values). From there it is basically first come first served. MVC has much more variability in points between resorts and weeks that are all part of the same point value at Vistana. These two approaches seem basically incompatible. My guess is things will look more like MVC. I think they can change the StarOption values anyway they want, but the degree to which they change Flex values seems more sensitive as I think they have to keep owners whole.


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[daviator]

So then what does that look like and mean? Any Mexico resorts would then exchange within their own “mini network” but at 8 months or so out the points could be used to book elsewhere?

Isn’t that how Aventuras already works?

 

[daviator]

The MVW execs talked in their recent earnings call about how wonderful the new merged program was going to be and how it was going to make both existing owners and prospective owners very happy. That would be great, but of course it’s exactly the sort of thing you’d expect them to say to investors.

Personally, I expect to be underwhelmed at best, and unhappy at worst, with whatever changes are announced. I’ll be ecstatic if they exceed my low expectations. I do expect that, as a four star elite, I’ll get Bonvoy Platinum and probably Titanium if they merge the elite programs. That will be a plus as it will eliminate the need to earn it through stays every time and would allow me to stay at fewer Marriott hotel properties (ironically.)

 

[dioxide45]

So then what does that look like and mean? Any Mexico resorts would then exchange within their own “mini network” but at 8 months or so out the points could be used to book elsewhere?

It would be based on Aventuras and Lagunamar owners converting to points. If an Aventuras owner converts their Home Options to DC points, they would put that inventory into the MVC Exchange program for other DC owners to use DC points to book. Same would go for Lagunamar weeks owners. Kind of how enrolled Marriott weeks owners convert to points. Once they convert, their week becomes available to DC Exchange company. MVC also has the Asia Pacific program that is pure points based (like Aventuras). It should work similar. If an owners elects to use their Home Options for DC points, then the DC exchange company can use the inventory to book.

This of course all dependant on how they actually implement things.

 

[cubigbird]

It would be based on Aventuras and Lagunamar owners converting to points. If an Aventuras owner converts their Home Options to DC points, they would put that inventory into the MVC Exchange program for other DC owners to use DC points to book. Same would go for Lagunamar weeks owners. Kind of how enrolled Marriott weeks owners convert to points. Once they convert, their week becomes available to DC Exchange company. MVC also has the Asia Pacific program that is pure points based (like Aventuras). It should work similar. If an owners elects to use their Home Options for DC points, then the DC exchange company can use the inventory to book.

This of course all dependant on how they actually implement things.

This explanation makes much more sense and I’m guessing we will see something along these lines. The message impressed upon me was that it isn’t going to be part of network, it’s a dead contract, you won’t be able to use it, you might as well give it up now. Solution of course is to give it back in buy points in a different product. My first thought was “if it’s essentially useless, why do you want it back?”

 

[DanV]

WKV owner update - nothing in writing or announced but salesperson said he had received some training on the merger and that the exchange value into Marriott will be property dependent. So, for example, Vistana ocean view Hawaii properties would get the best exchange rate into the Marriott program (maybe better than 1:1) and e.g., some Sheraton properties would get a lesser exchange rate (less than 1:1). He said Marriott definitely does not believe that the pay low MF for Plat week in WKV and get a Plat week in Hawaii is a good approach. Crap.

Seemed to indicate that all inventory would be available to all owners at the 8 month mark with only some advantage going to 5 star (and maybe 4 star) owners.

At one point, I thought I understood him to indicate that the name Vistana and the VSN network might be totally going away? When I returned to this point later to clarify, the response was less clear and included some discussion of major IT challenges.

Anyway, more chum in the water . . . .

 

[HankW]

WKV owner update - nothing in writing or announced but salesperson said he had received some training on the merger and that the exchange value into Marriott will be property dependent. So, for example, Vistana ocean view Hawaii properties would get the best exchange rate into the Marriott program (maybe better than 1:1) and e.g., some Sheraton properties would get a lesser exchange rate (less than 1:1). He said Marriott definitely does not believe that the pay low MF for Plat week in WKV and get a Plat week in Hawaii is a good approach. Crap.

Seemed to indicate that all inventory would be available to all owners at the 8 month mark with only some advantage going to 5 star (and maybe 4 star) owners.

At one point, I thought I understood him to indicate that the name Vistana and the VSN network might be totally going away? When I returned to this point later to clarify, the response was less clear and included some discussion of major IT challenges.

Anyway, more chum in the water . . . .

This is another interesting situation. No expert here, but it looks like it goes against our current VSN Startoptions framework, correct? How can we implement a MVC framework in our current SVN framework. How can something like this work both ways? VSN <---> MVC?

 

[daviator]

WKV owner update - nothing in writing or announced but salesperson said he had received some training on the merger and that the exchange value into Marriott will be property dependent. So, for example, Vistana ocean view Hawaii properties would get the best exchange rate into the Marriott program (maybe better than 1:1) and e.g., some Sheraton properties would get a lesser exchange rate (less than 1:1). He said Marriott definitely does not believe that the pay low MF for Plat week in WKV and get a Plat week in Hawaii is a good approach. Crap.

Seemed to indicate that all inventory would be available to all owners at the 8 month mark with only some advantage going to 5 star (and maybe 4 star) owners.

At one point, I thought I understood him to indicate that the name Vistana and the VSN network might be totally going away? When I returned to this point later to clarify, the response was less clear and included some discussion of major IT challenges.

Anyway, more chum in the water . . . .

I won’t believe that any of this is actually true until I hear it directly from Vistana/MVW. But a lot of the mechanics around VSN and StarOptions are part of the deeds, at least at some properties, and those can’t be unilaterally changed.

if they can get owners to give their deeds back to MVW or to opt in to some new program, maybe those who drink the Kool-aid will be a part of this new program, but I don’t think they can just get rid of VSN with the stroke of a pen.

 

[dioxide45]

WKV owner update - nothing in writing or announced but salesperson said he had received some training on the merger and that the exchange value into Marriott will be property dependent. So, for example, Vistana ocean view Hawaii properties would get the best exchange rate into the Marriott program (maybe better than 1:1) and e.g., some Sheraton properties would get a lesser exchange rate (less than 1:1). He said Marriott definitely does not believe that the pay low MF for Plat week in WKV and get a Plat week in Hawaii is a good approach. Crap.

Seemed to indicate that all inventory would be available to all owners at the 8 month mark with only some advantage going to 5 star (and maybe 4 star) owners.

At one point, I thought I understood him to indicate that the name Vistana and the VSN network might be totally going away? When I returned to this point later to clarify, the response was less clear and included some discussion of major IT challenges.

Anyway, more chum in the water . . . .

There will absolutely be no 1:1 conversion ratio from StarOptions to Marriott DC points. Not a chance. More like 30:1 or even worse.