Marriott / Vistana / Westin merger

[karenmb]

I just completed a sale presentation at a Marriott timeshare resort. I was told the merger will only benefit Marriott owners. I was told that if you are a Marriott owner you will have the ability to transfer / trade into Westin / Vistana properties. But it will not let Westin / Vistana book Marriott properties. “Because MARRIOTT bought Westin /Vistana” “We ( Marriott) own them” ( Westin / Vistana) They we’re displaying a whole video on the NEW properties ( Westin’s) Does anyone have any information regarding how they think the merger might play out. They said it might take place by the end of the year. Thanks

 

[cubigbird]

I just completed a sale presentation at a Marriott timeshare resort. I was told the merger will only benefit Marriott owners.

You can stop right there. Remember this is coming from a timeshares person who is attempting to make a sale and convince you that what you have is inferior. They know nothing more about a merger than owners. Nothing is in writing or is known about a new system at this time.

Merger, integration, whatever……it’s still wise to own where you want to travel to.

 

[Ken555]

Hilarious. Does anyone really believe this?


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[DeniseM]

He wasn't trying to sell you something by any chance?

 

[rcv82]

If one applies just a little logic it’s obvious that this is bogus. Marriott may “own” Vistana/Westin/Sheraton brands, but all sold inventory is owned by the OWNERS. MVC owners can only trade into Westin and Sheraton owners’ units to the extent there is a trade the other direction. How they do this (and which owners are eligible) remains to be seen, but the mechanism will have to balance the demand both directions. If it is unattractive to Vistana owners there will be no inventory for MVC owners.


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[dioxide45]

But it will now let Westin / Vistana book Marriott properties.

Is now supposed to be not?

 

[fran]

I just completed a sale presentation at a Marriott timeshare resort. I was told the merger will only benefit Marriott owners. I was told that if you are a Marriott owner you will have the ability to transfer / trade into Westin / Vistana properties. But it will now let Westin / Vistana book Marriott properties. “Because MARRIOTT bought Westin /Vistana” “We ( Marriott) own them” ( Westin / Vistana) They we’re displaying a whole video on the NEW properties ( Westin’s) Does anyone have any information regarding how they think the merger might play out. They said it might take place by the end of the year. Thanks

We had our owner's update at WKOR on Monday. We own OF at WKORN and a Gold week at Mission Hills. What we were told was that once the merger went through it will be next to impossible to trade our Mission Hills unit for a high demand property at 8 months because we will be competing with all of the Mariott owners. Admittedly, we have used our Mission Hills unit to trade into Atlantis, Langumar, Kuai and WKOR. We were told unless we planned to use our Mission Hills unit during the season we owned we were (can't remember if she called me an idiot or stupid) if we didn't pay $24,000 and buy into the Westin Flex plan as we could rent the unit for less than the association dues. We thanked her and left but still feeling insulted.

 

[karenmb]

We had our owner's update at WKOR on Monday. We own OF at WKORN and a Gold week at Mission Hills. What we were told was that once the merger went through it will be next to impossible to trade our Mission Hills unit for a high demand property at 8 months because we will be competing with all of the Mariott owners. Admittedly, we have used our Mission Hills unit to trade into Atlantis, Langumar, Kuai and WKOR. We were told unless we planned to use our Mission Hills unit during the season we owned we were (can't remember if she called me an idiot or stupid) if we didn't pay $24,000 and buy into the Westin Flex plan as we could rent the unit for less than the association dues. We thanked her and left but still feeling insulted.

I am wondering if the reality is going to be that Westin owners with options are going to have a more difficult time due to increase demand 8 months out with this merger.

 

[karenmb]

If one applies just a little logic it’s obvious that this is bogus. Marriott may “own” Vistana/Westin/Sheraton brands, but all sold inventory is owned by the OWNERS. MVC owners can only trade into Westin and Sheraton owners’ units to the extent there is a trade the other direction. How they do this (and which owners are eligible) remains to be seen, but the mechanism will have to balance the demand both directions. If it is unattractive to Vistana owners there will be no inventory for MVC owners.


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Agree, I was hoping someone had some insider knowledge on how it might work. Points to options trades… what will the conversation look like 148,100 Westin options = 5000 Marriott points for trading purpose?

 

[jwalk03]

Agree, I was hoping someone had some insider knowledge on how it might work. Points to options trades… what will the conversation look like 148,100 Westin options = 5000 Marriott points for trading purpose?

Nobody knows yet. Everyone is anxiously waiting an announcement that is always coming next quarter

 

[dioxide45]

Agree, I was hoping someone had some insider knowledge on how it might work. Points to options trades… what will the conversation look like 148,100 Westin options = 5000 Marriott points for trading purpose?

I doubt anyone with insider knowledge will share it on TUG. Marriott employees are probably forbidden from posting here and if they do, they risk their employment status. We saw similar rumors leading up to the 2010 rollout of the DC program, but no insider knowledge leaked out. Just speculation on how the new program might look. Some was right, but much of it was wrong.

 

[dioxide45]

Nobody knows yet. Everyone is anxiously waiting an announcement that is always coming next quarter

Next quarter? They keep telling us early 2022.

 

[DanCali]

I just completed a sale presentation at a Marriott timeshare resort. I was told the merger will only benefit Marriott owners. I was told that if you are a Marriott owner you will have the ability to transfer / trade into Westin / Vistana properties. But it will now let Westin / Vistana book Marriott properties. “Because MARRIOTT bought Westin /Vistana” “We ( Marriott) own them” ( Westin / Vistana) They we’re displaying a whole video on the NEW properties ( Westin’s) Does anyone have any information regarding how they think the merger might play out. They said it might take place by the end of the year. Thanks

I don't think this is necessarily all lies. I can try to speculate on how the new system might work and how to translate the sales rep's statements...

My personal opinion is that the Marriott system will be an another exchange company Vistana owners can pay to enroll in (like non-mandatory resort owners pay II) and will likely have another annual fee. Perhaps this will be open to all at the same price, perhaps only to developer/retro purchasers, perhaps lower price to developer/retro purchasers and steeper price for resales. Vistana owners will be able to trade for Marriott points anytime before 8 months. At 8 months, if they are in VSN, their week is available to VSN owners for VSN trading. So if one owns a WKORV week, you can book it, trade for Marriott points thereby making the WKORV week available to Marriott owners, or wait for 8 months and trade in VSN. In such a system, I translate the sales rep as follows:

I was told the merger will only benefit Marriott owners = they would not have to pay anything out of pocket to trade into the new resorts. They would just see the new inventory when Vistana owners trade for DC points.
I was told that if you are a Marriott owner you will have the ability to transfer / trade into Westin / Vistana properties = if there is inventory, i.e., Vistana owners trade into DC points instead of Staroptions at 8 months.
But it will not let Westin / Vistana book Marriott properties = unless they pay extra to enroll in the exchange system. Or unless resale owners pay extra to buy points.
“Because MARRIOTT bought Westin /Vistana” “We ( Marriott) own them”= this is true.
They said it might take place by the end of the year = This is also true. It might... or not...

In the system I describe, a VSN owner who trades for Marriott points at 12 months out makes that week available for Marriott owners at 12 months out. But that's really not different than depositing a week in Interval and having someone on Interval get that week. Does that mean that fewer weeks will be available for VSN trading at 8 months? Probably, because owners will have another exchange company to deposit in. But, conversely, there will also be fewer owners in VSN looking for that VSN exchange inventory (a WKORV owners who exchanges Marriott DC points will not be competing for Harborside or WSJ inventory at 8 months out).

But that's all just speculation...

 

[Mroze]

I just completed a sale presentation at a Marriott timeshare resort. I was told the merger will only benefit Marriott owners. I was told that if you are a Marriott owner you will have the ability to transfer / trade into Westin / Vistana properties. But it will now let Westin / Vistana book Marriott properties. “Because MARRIOTT bought Westin /Vistana” “We ( Marriott) own them” ( Westin / Vistana) They we’re displaying a whole video on the NEW properties ( Westin’s) Does anyone have any information regarding how they think the merger might play out. They said it might take place by the end of the year. Thanks

This is the identical line we were fed at our presentation at Summit Watch in June.

I asked "how would this be possible if inventory only travelled 1-way", and he explained that Marriott would be using ROFR, Explorer-Collection, Unsold inventory to make Vistana units available to Marriott-Owners.

 

[DannyTS]

Marriott makes a great deal of money by renting their inventory, why would they give away that revenue?

 

[karenmb]

I don't think this is necessarily all lies. I can try to speculate on how the new system might work and how to translate the sales rep's statements...

My personal opinion is that the Marriott system will be an another exchange company Vistana owners can pay to enroll in (like non-mandatory resort owners pay II) and will likely have another annual fee. Perhaps this will be open to all at the same price, perhaps only to developer/retro purchasers, perhaps lower price to developer/retro purchasers and steeper price for resales. Vistana owners will be able to trade for Marriott points anytime before 8 months. At 8 months, if they are in VSN, their week is available to VSN owners for VSN trading. So if one owns a WKORV week, you can book it, trade for Marriott points thereby making the WKORV week available to Marriott owners, or wait for 8 months and trade in VSN. In such a system, I translate the sales rep as follows:

I was told the merger will only benefit Marriott owners = they would not have to pay anything out of pocket to trade into the new resorts. They would just see the new inventory then Vistana owners trade for DC points.
I was told that if you are a Marriott owner you will have the ability to transfer / trade into Westin / Vistana properties = if there is inventory, i.e., Vistana owners trade into DC points instead of Staroptions at 8 months.
But it will not let Westin / Vistana book Marriott properties = unless they pay extra to enroll in the exchange system. Or unless resale owners pay extra to buy points.
“Because MARRIOTT bought Westin /Vistana” “We ( Marriott) own them”= this is true.
They said it might take place by the end of the year = This is also true. It might... or not...

In the system I describe, a VSN owner who trades for Marriott points at 12 months out makes that week available for Marriott owners at 12 months out. But that's really not different than depositing a week in Interval and having someone on Interval get that week. Does that mean that fewer weeks will be available for VSN trading at 8 months? Probably, because owners will have another exchange company to deposit in. But, conversely, there will also be fewer owners in VSN looking for that VSN exchange inventory (a WKORV owners who exchanges Marriott DC points will not be competing for Harborside or WSJ inventory at 8 months out).

But that's all just speculation...

I appreciate you giving me ( and the rest of this community) a good perspective / comment. I was hoping for some thoughtful feedback. Thank you. Karen

 

[karenmb]

Is now supposed to be not?

yes I changed it. thanks

 

[Ty1on]

This is the identical to the line we were fed at our presentation at Summit Watch in June.

I asked "how would this be possible if inventory only travelled 1-way", and he explained that Marriott would be using ROFR, Explorer-Collection, Unsold inventory to make Vistana units available to Marriott-Owners.

Why would Marriott gift developer-owned points to Marriot owners, or any owners, when there is rental income to be had?

 

[Ken555]

Once again, we are giving credibility to what the lying sales staff says in order to convince the gullible to buy an overpriced product. Ultimately, Marriott knows that if they reduce the ability to trade with SOs to the point where good customers get upset (keep in mind these are the customers they want to be loyal to them) then they will lose. Fear of losing out on trade ability is a poor way of convincing the majority of owners to not only stay loyal but pay out more to keep what we already have with perhaps minimal enhancements.

Perhaps the majority of owners are susceptible to such sales tactics as those represented here. If so, and the existing ability to trade relatively easily into other VSN properties diminishes then I have no doubt some of us will sell and move on. Maybe some of us will buy something else on the resale market to compensate for the new Marriott reality…and some of us won’t.

Regardless, it’s always amusing to me when I read about timeshare sales using fear as the prime motivator to buy. To me, that’s the quickest way to get me to say no. I don’t care what you’re selling…if I’m told to do something or else things will get worse, I just roll my eyes and say “really”, and head to the jacuzzi.


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[daviator]

I think what they will do is make things even more complicated and confusing for owners, probably by introducing a whole new points layer that sits on top of the existing ownerships somehow.

The more complicated they make it, the more owners will not be able to figure out how to effectively use their ownerships, which results in more unused inventory that Vistana or MVW can monetize. Some will get fed up and walk away from their ownerships… fantastic! Vistana takes back the ownership (for free, or maybe a ROFR price) and resells it at full price.

Confused about the new programs? We'll be glad to help you, just come to an “owner update” where we'll try to solve all of your problems while selling you more. A more complex program will absolutely drive eyeballs to those sales presentations disguised as opportunities for education.

Of course, if you can’t figure out the complexities of the program and aren’t using your ownership well, that’s your own fault, the program is wonderful! Or so they will say.

TUG will become even more important than it already is, in helping people navigate and make best use of their ownership(s.)

 

[TimeshareMess]

We have 2 Sheratons - Jensen Beach, 2-bedroom & a 2-bedroom lockoff at Sheraton Vistana Villages in Orlando. We also have the Marriott Grande Vista and were hoping they were going to merge so we could be at a higher level in Marriott and go into the Trust program. Is that even a good idea or should we just stay in the Destination Club? We don't know if the Sheraton will ever merge with the Marriott and we don't know if we should let them take them back but we get nothing in return. Can someone give us some valuable advice? Our kids don't want to be stuck with them when we pass on.

 

[kozykritter]

I don't think this is necessarily all lies. I can try to speculate on how the new system might work and how to translate the sales rep's statements...

My personal opinion is that the Marriott system will be an another exchange company Vistana owners can pay to enroll in (like non-mandatory resort owners pay II) and will likely have another annual fee. Perhaps this will be open to all at the same price, perhaps only to developer/retro purchasers, perhaps lower price to developer/retro purchasers and steeper price for resales. Vistana owners will be able to trade for Marriott points anytime before 8 months. At 8 months, if they are in VSN, their week is available to VSN owners for VSN trading. So if one owns a WKORV week, you can book it, trade for Marriott points thereby making the WKORV week available to Marriott owners, or wait for 8 months and trade in VSN. In such a system, I translate the sales rep as follows:

I was told the merger will only benefit Marriott owners = they would not have to pay anything out of pocket to trade into the new resorts. They would just see the new inventory when Vistana owners trade for DC points.
I was told that if you are a Marriott owner you will have the ability to transfer / trade into Westin / Vistana properties = if there is inventory, i.e., Vistana owners trade into DC points instead of Staroptions at 8 months.
But it will not let Westin / Vistana book Marriott properties = unless they pay extra to enroll in the exchange system. Or unless resale owners pay extra to buy points.
“Because MARRIOTT bought Westin /Vistana” “We ( Marriott) own them”= this is true.
They said it might take place by the end of the year = This is also true. It might... or not...

In the system I describe, a VSN owner who trades for Marriott points at 12 months out makes that week available for Marriott owners at 12 months out. But that's really not different than depositing a week in Interval and having someone on Interval get that week. Does that mean that fewer weeks will be available for VSN trading at 8 months? Probably, because owners will have another exchange company to deposit in. But, conversely, there will also be fewer owners in VSN looking for that VSN exchange inventory (a WKORV owners who exchanges Marriott DC points will not be competing for Harborside or WSJ inventory at 8 months out).

But that's all just speculation...

Your speculation makes sense because unlike the US treasury printing money, there is a finite amount of inventory in the entire system broken up into different pots/trusts and it is all owned by someone. Legally in the end it all has to balance or there will be breach of contract lawsuits aplenty. Therefore if Marriott owners get access to a pot of Vistanta inventory and remove some by making reservations, the inventory in the Marriott system they abandon has to be made available the other way to Vistana owners for the transaction to balance. The detail of how all the access will occur is the big mystery! A couple of years ago Marriott did an investor update posted on here that showed Westin Flex, Sheraton Flex, VSN and MVC all operating as separate spheres with a new type of currency system to be created (and sold in some fashion, of course!) to provide cross access between them.

 

[Mowogo]

Your speculation makes sense because unlike the US treasury printing money, there is a finite amount of inventory in the entire system broken up into different pots/trusts and it is all owned by someone. Legally in the end it all has to balance or there will be breach of contract lawsuits aplenty. Therefore if Marriott owners get access to a pot of Vistanta inventory and remove some by making reservations, the inventory in the Marriott system they abandon has to be made available the other way to Vistana owners for the transaction to balance. The detail of how all the access will occur is the big mystery! A couple of years ago Marriott did an investor update posted on here that showed Westin Flex, Sheraton Flex, VSN and MVC all operating as separate spheres with a new type of currency system to be created (and sold in some fashion, of course!) to provide cross access between them.

One consistent thing seems to be the new dividing line being flex points being the product being marketed as being exchangeable across brands, and if you start drawing down VSN at the same time you make flex compelling for more owners. Main reason you include Flex in the exchange is to provide a good quantity of inventory at the start for exchanging across brands so that MVC can exchange in and a decent pool exchanging out. Make the exchange program that includes MVC attractive enough, then the inventory never filters down to VSN and the value of legacy weeks decreases as VSN becomes primarily legacy developer and mandatory weeks with inventory from Flex only coming in as an exchange into one of the remaining units in VSN.

 

[THSMTHS]

Your speculation makes sense because unlike the US treasury printing money, there is a finite amount of inventory in the entire system broken up into different pots/trusts and it is all owned by someone. Legally in the end it all has to balance or there will be breach of contract lawsuits aplenty. Therefore if Marriott owners get access to a pot of Vistanta inventory and remove some by making reservations, the inventory in the Marriott system they abandon has to be made available the other way to Vistana owners for the transaction to balance. The detail of how all the access will occur is the big mystery! A couple of years ago Marriott did an investor update posted on here that showed Westin Flex, Sheraton Flex, VSN and MVC all operating as separate spheres with a new type of currency system to be created (and sold in some fashion, of course!) to provide cross access between them.

There is definitely a finite amount of inventory in the Westin Flex program. About a month ago we were told, that the Flex program will not become fully funded as the originally intended, due to the merger of Marriott and Vistana. For the program to work, Vistana owners had to put their "deeded weeks" into the Flex program. That is no longer happening from what we were told.

 

[CPNY]

There is definitely a finite amount of inventory in the Westin Flex program. About a month ago we were told, that the Flex program will not become fully funded as the originally intended, due to the merger of Marriott and Vistana. For the program to work, Vistana owners had to put their "deeded weeks" into the Flex program. That is no longer happening from what we were told.

It seems like they ended their short lived exit program. I guess they weren’t getting the inventory they hoped for? So if the program isn’t being fully funded, are they scrapping it? This whole thing is a mess! Legacy Weeks, Flex Options, DC, VSN, Home Options what a headache.