Super Quick Rental

[chapjim]

I booked a 2BR Presidential unit at Bonnet Creek a little after midnight on Sunday, December 27. I listed it on eBay at 3:50 PM and had a sale at 3:54 PM.

 

[bogey21]

How much did you rent it for...

George

 

[chapjim]

How much did you rent it for...

George

You can look it up but I PMed you anyway.

 

[bendadin]

I booked a 2BR Presidential unit at Bonnet Creek a little after midnight on Sunday, December 27. I listed it on eBay at 3:50 PM and had a sale at 3:54 PM.

That is because it was 66,400 and it went for $895 for a Spring Break week.

 

[dgalati]

That is because it was 66,400 and it went for $895 for a Spring Break week.

Not a bad deal $895 for a 2 bedroom Presidential. 7 nights during Spring Break?

 

[chapjim]

Didn't know it was Spring Break. Guess I should book some more of that week. I was just doing my usual bottom-feeding.

 

[chapjim]

That is because it was 66,400 and it went for $895 for a Spring Break week.

I don't see causation there. I do see serendipity.

 

[Eric B]

I don't see causation there. I do see serendipity.

I think the folks that booked that week saw serendipity, too. Your bottom feeding seems to work at least some of the time.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Also a great example of a fairly unsung benefit of Presidential Reserve. They are given the option of an upgrade to a 2 Bedroom Deluxe or 2 Bedroom Presidential (doesn't have to be a Presidential Reserve either, as I understand it). For VIP Founders and on down, we are only given the choice of a 2 Bedroom Deluxe. Unless there are no 2 Bedroom Deluxe units. A very nice benefit, for sure!

 

[chapjim]

I think the folks that booked that week saw serendipity, too. Your bottom feeding seems to work at least some of the time.

I bet I've had a dozen reservations for 2BR Presidential units at Panama City Beach. I've rented three of them -- one in October, two in November. I've had twice that many reservations for 2BR Presidential units at Bonnet Creek and rented seven of them going back to September, including the one that sold on eBay in four minutes.

I posted a 2BR Deluxe unit at Bonnet Creek on eBay for the same dates -- no nibbles yet which supports my view that the quick sale was serendipitous.

Needless to say bottom feeding works better when people aren't afraid to leave the house. But, Presidential units at Bonnet Creek and Panama City Beach, and 2BR Deluxe units at Royal Vista and Ocean Walk aren't exactly dregs, as one of our bitter Wyndham owners chose to characterize what I'm reserving.

 

[bnoble]

Needless to say bottom feeding works better when people aren't afraid to leave the house.

On the flip side, if people aren't afraid to leave the house, it's possible that fewer units make their way to the bottom!

 

[CO skier]

But, Presidential units at Bonnet Creek and Panama City Beach, and 2BR Deluxe units at Royal Vista and Ocean Walk aren't exactly dregs, as one of our bitter Wyndham owners chose to characterize what I'm reserving.

Bitter? Not hardly. I and other owners like me are still doing victory laps every year after the introduction of automatic upgrades that spelled the end of predictable cancel/rebook-upgrade abuses.

It is people like troy12n

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/w...enance-december-16.312387/page-3#post-2547755

jules54

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/t...eneral-discussion.256063/page-48#post-2014055

baby jane

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/t...eneral-discussion.256063/page-60#post-2020731

happyhopian

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/t...eneral-discussion.256063/page-65#post-2021948

braindead on multiple posts

… just a few examples from those on TUG and apparently a whole world of VIP owners on Facebook

even you

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/how-can-wyndham-owners-effectively-complain.256508/#post-2011218



who post with a certain bitter tone as a result of the demise of 50% (or much more) discounts for 13-month reservations.

 

[Jan M.]

braindead on multiple posts

I hope braindead sees this and replies. I have never once seen this person say what you're claiming. In fact I distinctly recall this person saying that most of the stays they book are at full points and are for themselves.

Book/cancel/rebook/upgrade has been gone long enough now to stop digging up the bones of that long dead horse to continue beating it. Fairfield and now Wyndham absolutely should be held accountable for actively and knowingly promoting them and renting too but we all know that's not likely to happen. Speaking of bitter tones. You've spewed bitterness for years here on TUG against VIP owners having benefits they were willing to pay to have that you aren't willing to pay to have.

You seem convinced that because you're able to book a few prime weeks at high demand resorts, and also perhaps in the largest units, that everything is sunshine and roses with book/cancel/rebook gone. Owners then and still now have to book stays like that at the maximum time out to make sure they get them. I don't see a big change in that.

Ron P. was 100% correct in what he said would happen. He said people would find ways; different ways. What's happening now is worse. I don't think you see it because your focus is getting those weeks you've mentioned for yourself. Weeks like that represent a very small percentage of the total amount of inventory. And plenty of other people want that other inventory. With seemingly everyone and their brother/sister trying to rent there's an incredible amount of inventory being tied up. Just one single owner I know who rents has over 100 reservations they're holding hoping to rent them. I can guarantee there's far more owners like that than you'd guess. Add to that how many hundreds of other owners there are who only have a few reservations they're holding for the sole purpose of renting them. Because of COVID many of the owners who rent, both on the big and small scale, are so desperate that there're more owners holding reservations even into 15 day cancellation window in the hopes of still being able to rent them.

 

[Braindead]

Bitter? Not hardly. I and other owners like me are still doing victory laps every year after the introduction of automatic upgrades that spelled the end of predictable cancel/rebook-upgrade abuses.

It is people like troy12n

braindead on multiple posts

… just a few examples from those on TUG and apparently a whole world of VIP owners on Facebook

even you who post with a certain bitter tone as a result of the demise of 50% (or much more) discounts for 13-month reservations.

I’ve never been bitter about the cancel rebook going away or being tougher to do!! @Jan M. is correct that most of our reservations are made 6+ months out with many ARP reservations for our family. I don’t count on upgrades if we want a 3 bdr, I reserve a 3bdr. We’re never changing units during our stays, so if there’s more that one reservation for our stay I opt out of the upgrade option, I don’t want one reservation upgraded without our entire stay upgraded.

 

[dgalati]

I hope braindead sees this and replies. I have never once seen this person say what you're claiming. In fact I distinctly recall this person saying that most of the stays they book are at full points.

Book/cancel/rebook/upgrade has been gone long enough now to stop digging up the bones of that long dead horse to continue beating it. Fairfield and now Wyndham absolutely should be held accountable for actively and knowingly promoting them and renting too but we all know that's not likely to happen. Speaking of bitter tones. You've spewed bitterness for years here on TUG against VIP owners having benefits they were willing to pay to have that you aren't willing to pay to have.

You seem convinced that because you're able to book a few prime weeks at high demand resorts, and also perhaps in the largest units, that everything is sunshine and roses with book/cancel/rebook gone. Owners then and still now have to book stays like that at the maximum time out to make sure they get them. I don't see a big change in that.

Ron P. was 100% correct in what he said would happen. He said people would find ways; different ways. What's happening now is worse. I don't think you see it because your focus is getting those weeks you've mentioned for yourself. Weeks like that represent a very small percentage of the total amount of inventory. And plenty of other people want that other inventory. With seemingly everyone and their brother/sister trying to rent there is an incredible amount of inventory being tied up. Just one single owner I know who rents has over 100 reservations they are holding hoping to rent them. I can guarantee there's far more owners like that than you'd guess. Add to that how many hundreds of other owners there are who only have a few reservations they're holding for the sole purpose of renting them. Because of COVID many of the owners who rent, both on the big and small scale, are so desperate that there are more owners holding reservations even into 15 day cancellation window in the hopes of still being able to rent them.

The so called dregs that are booked in a discount window are left over inventory or cancellations. Would it be better to let room sit empty or put it on sale for somebody to use? The way a person makes use of the club makes no difference to me. If a owner can book at 13 months then find the same room available at a 50% discount they would be foolish not to book discounted reservation then cancel 13 month reservation. Net result a room still available for someone else to use or rent.

 

[Jan M.]

The so called dregs that are booked in a discount window are left over inventory or cancellations. Would it be better to let room sit empty or put it on sale for somebody to use? The way a person makes use of the club makes no difference to me. If a owner can book at 13 months then find the same room available at a 50% discount they would be foolish not to book discounted reservation then cancel 13 month reservation. Net result a room still available for someone else to use or rent.

I would never call what's available in the discount window the leftover dregs! With very few exceptions that's all I book and not only do we having amazing stays but we have a lot of them. It doesn't inconvenience me when another owner cancels a stay they made at full points when the same stay is still available at 60 days. However others may not feel the same. There can also be some amazing stays to be had at 14 days or less but it's difficult for most owners to be able to use them by then.

 

[dgalati]

I would never call what's available in the discount window the leftover dregs! With very few exceptions that's all I book and not only do we having amazing stays but we have a lot of them. It doesn't inconvenience me when another owner cancels a stay they made at full points when the same stay is still available at 60 days. However others may not feel the same. There can also be some amazing stays to be had at 14 days or less but it's difficult for most owners to be able to use them by then.

I agree. The last minute deals have worked just fine for my travel needs. The "dregs" as someone calls them are the same nice rooms that a lot of owners book at full price 13 months out. Nothing wrong with paying full price when needed but buying at a 50% discount works great for my trvel needs.

 

[chapjim]

<snip>

Speaking of bitter tones. You've spewed bitterness for years here on TUG against VIP owners having benefits they were willing to pay to have that you aren't willing to pay to have.

<snip>

And gloating over the fact that some of us lost something we once had. I'm glad someone else sees things the same way I do.

 

[dgalati]

.

 

[Zekes]

My friends love it that I can get a suite at Bonnet Creek at discounted / upgraded points and then can let them stay on my dime. Only an hour away.

 

[dgalati]

My friends love it that I can get a suite at Bonnet Creek at discounted / upgraded points and then can let them stay on my dime. Only an hour away.

I like your way of thinking!

 

[CO skier]

Ron P. was 100% correct in what he said would happen. He said people would find ways; different ways. What's happening now is worse. I don't think you see it because your focus is getting those weeks you've mentioned for yourself. Weeks like that represent a very small percentage of the total amount of inventory. And plenty of other people want that other inventory. With seemingly everyone and their brother/sister trying to rent there's an incredible amount of inventory being tied up. Just one single owner I know who rents has over 100 reservations they're holding hoping to rent them. I can guarantee there's far more owners like that than you'd guess. Add to that how many hundreds of other owners there are who only have a few reservations they're holding for the sole purpose of renting them. Because of COVID many of the owners who rent, both on the big and small scale, are so desperate that there're more owners holding reservations even into 15 day cancellation window in the hopes of still being able to rent them.

Since you clearly do not want to believe me or accept common sense, allow me to quote Your Hero from a 2016 post to explain it in terms you can understand and which summarizes Club Wyndham following the changes in 2017.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/account-review-email-accts-suspended.245656/page-28#post-1932905

Owners who were hurt by significantly reduced 13-month inventory due to the cancel/rebook scam are hurting no more, because renting 3 and 4 bedroom Presidentials and many other units are not profitable without a 50-88% VIP discount. Owners who bought into Club Wyndham for these vacations are willing to pay full points to reserve these units and take their families on their dream vacation and are now doing so.

Connect the dots

 

[CO skier]

Speaking of bitter tones. You've spewed bitterness for years here on TUG against VIP owners having benefits they were willing to pay to have that you aren't willing to pay to have.

And gloating over the fact that some of us lost something we once had. I'm glad someone else sees things the same way I do.

How many times has something like, “If the saleman’s lips are moving, it is a lie” been posted on TUG? Even Jan M.’s Hero had a sense of the situation waaay back in 2012

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/2...i-tried-to-cancel-rebook.181084/#post-1377247

It is amazing how many people were conned into believing cancel/rebook was any kind of VIP “benefit.” It was a loophole in the rules that sales people used to “upgreed” VIP owners. There was nothing in the rules allowing “VIP cancel/rebook.” When challenged on the loophole, defenders would always point to the pages in the directory that allow a 1) reservation to be cancelled and 2) a reservation to be booked. “Nothing against the rules,” said they.

2017 changed nothing about these rules, so no one lost a rule (or "VIP benefit") they had. A 1) reservation may be cancelled and 2) a reservation may be booked.

2017 introduced an automatic VIP upgrade that anyone can point to in today’s directory. Unfortunately for the system manipulators, the automatic upgrades would capture their premium cancellations, and they could not rebook or rebook-upgrade their 13-month-primo cancellations. The manipulators “lost” their scam, and Club Wyndham Owners booked their vacations at 10-13 months using their ARP, or VIPs upgraded within 60 days, instead. Win-Win.

I am sure more Owners, who are finding their 13-month reservations now versus not being able to find pre-2017, would gloat if they only knew the whole story and how they were being screwed for more than a decade by some VIP owners pre-2017. Or maybe they are just happy to use their Club Wyndham points to take their family on a primo vacation.

 

[Jan M.]

Even Jan M.’s Hero

I wouldn't call Ron P. my hero by a long shot! However he was one of the acknowledged experts by most people when it came to the Wyndham system. When Ron became an owner he read through the members directory several times and had an excellent grasp of how the system worked and the terminology. That's an ability most of us don't have. Many owners have very limited knowledge even after years of owning.

What you don't care to understand is how much most owners used to rely on the salespeople to learn the system. Their help was invaluable. I'd be a fool to say we were never manipulated by a salesperson back then but the salespeople we encountered could be counted on to help you learn to use what you owned. Within a few years of the change from Fairfield to Wyndham the lies became so blatant and pervasive and the help almost nonexistent that we stopped going to the updates. Because for a number of years we used to go to the sales presentations every time we stayed at a resort I do understand what other people say about how they were taught to use the system. Although I was aware of how to do it I've made it clear that I didn't do the book multiple units, cancel, rebook and upgrade because I wasn't willing to tie up our points to do it. Also cancelled points and the restrictions on using them were still a thing at the time so having a large number of cancelled points would have been a problem for me. Even the reps used to assist owners with cancelling, rebooking and upgrading. I remember the discussions in the threads when the reps were no longer allowed to do that.

Ron was and I'd guess still is a businessman through and through. While other owners went to the annual owners meetings to enjoy the food, peruse the vendors tables and meet other owners Ron was there to talk to the Wyndham bigwigs and learn as much as he could. After the Freeze of August 2016 and all that ensued Ron was very upfront about saying that owning Wyndham was a profitable business venture for him. One he knew couldn't last. I think most of us were shocked and at least somewhat dismayed to find out what he and others had been doing.

I also remember the discussions about getting those prime weeks. There were always people complaining and bitter because they couldn't get the 3 or 4 bedroom units in those prime weeks. Someone would explain that you needed to be online to make your reservation the minute the 13 or 10 month window opened up. Then and now an owner could only make one reservation at a time so the old megarenters and point managers certainly weren't able to get everything. Don't you still have to be online at midnight of the 13 and 10 month windows to get those stays? They aren't stays we need so I could be wrong in assuming that hasn't changed.

 

[Eric B]

I must admit that reading what @ronparise had to say about using Wyndham and WorldMark both here and on WMowners.com prompted me to read as much as I could about how the rules work for those systems and the other ones I use. It's not all that hard to figure out way more than any of the salespeople now as well as the typical customer service rep at the call centers. Well worth my time.