Temporary 50% reduction in the Hilton Honors Points conversion ratios [REDUCTION LIFTED A/O JAN 1, 2021] [MERGED]

[Tamaradarann]

I think Hilton has taken care of their customers the best through this crisis. They just have a lot of ill will due to their sales team.

I agree. You need to separate your focus and thinking here into 2 separate issues:

1. Consider the price you paid from the developer or the price you paid or would have paid buying resale
2. Consider the price you paid resale for an HGVC timeshare and the benefits of owning HGVC during normal times not Covid times which everyone hates

If your problem is with 1 then your problem is with the sales team tempting and urging you with a developer purchase.

If your problem is with 2 then you should not be owning HGVC or perhaps any timeshare since this is not for you regardless of purchase price.

 

[tombanjo]

At some point it might make sense to ease the conversion to reduce the points overload from people not being able to use their points, and take advantage of greater availability for empty hotel rooms

 

[Tamaradarann]

At some point it might make sense to ease the conversion to reduce the points overload from people not being able to use their points, and take advantage of greater availability for empty hotel rooms

The overload will always be on the most sought after resorts. Hawaii, NYC, Miami South Beach, Utah and Colorado in the winter etc. With the overabundance of Las Vegas and Orlando availability all the resorts will never be overloaded except during very special periods, some may. Therefore, you will be able to use your points but there will be limits to where you can use them. After the Virus starts to slow down more there will be plenty of time before everyone will be comfortable vacationing again so the increase will not be as drastic as one might think.

 

[bogey21]

Allowing HGVC members to save points to a future year furthers this endeavor.

Isn't the risk in doing this is that in future years there will be too many Points chasing limited availability...

George

 

[Tamaradarann]

Isn't the risk in doing this is that in future years there will be too many Points chasing limited availability...

George

This is not a positive thing from a member perspective, it is HGVC trying to regain the occupancy traffic that it has had at its resorts. As I mentioned in a subsequent post, certain locations and resorts will fill up first, however, the less sought after locations and resorts need volume to stay viable so at this time and in the foreseeable future so they need members to start to travel and fill up all of the resorts to try to get back to some type of normalcy.

 

[Tamaradarann]

This is not a positive thing from a member perspective, it is HGVC trying to regain the occupancy traffic that it has had at its resorts. As I mentioned in a subsequent post, certain locations and resorts will fill up first, however, the less sought after locations and resorts need volume to stay viable so at this time and in the foreseeable future so they need members to start to travel and fill up all of the resorts to try to get back to some type of normalcy.

I would add, that yes if and when HGVC sees all of its resorts getting really full again they will be urging members to use their points for HH conversions and other points partners like they did before. I wish that was in a few month, or like the beginning of 2021, but It may not be for years.

 

[pianodinosaur]

Cruises Only offers HGVC bonus points when you purchase a cruise via our HHONORS credit cards directly rather than through an HGVC redemption. Cruises Only offers BONVOY multiple points Bonuses if you purchase the cruise using a Bonvoy credit card. HHONORS points and BONVOY points are not identical. I have cruised on multiple occasions via HGVC redemptions because I could only take so much time off from work. Now that I am retired, it appears that the most economical use of HGVC points is for timesharing rather than for cruising as it always has been. We enjoy both cruising and timesharing.

We had planned a Greek Island Cruise out of Rome that we should have been on right now were it not for COVID-19 . This was paid via an HGVC redemption in order to celebrate my retirement and our anniversary. We had also booked a 5 day stay at the Hilton Rome Cavalieri via a HHONORS redemption. Royal Caribbean is suppose to give me a 125% Cruise credit for a Holy land cruise next year. There have been no problems with HHONORS regarding cancellation and the rescheduling.

Given the current circumstances it seems that our future Cruise plans may be booked via BONVOY using a Bonvoy credit card rather than HHONORS using a HHONORS credit card. Family circumstances, health, and future point devaluations may change all that. I remain a happy HGVC member though I am disappointed in the conversion devaluation. I have only converted HGVC points to HHONORS points once in 20 years due to family health circumstances.

 

[Shmiddy]

Not mentioned in the OP is that HGVC is carrying over 2020 unused points into 2021 for free. (I didn't want to wade through the 50+ responses so don't slam me if this has already been pointed out)
Today, I'm happy to share that the end of this year, we will automatically save any remaining 2020 ClubPoints into 2021 at no cost to you. This will continue to provide you with the flexibility to decide when travel is right for you. If you are ready to book a 2021 reservation now using your 2020 Points, you can visit the website and save your Points at no cost. If you already paid to save your 2020 Points into 2021, you will receive a refund of the amount paid. As a reminder, your account must be in good standing to use your Points and to check-in at a resort.
Obviously, they want to prevent folks from gaming the system and just converting all their 2020 points into HHonors and flooding the system. If converting is so important to you, wait till next year and just convert your 2021 points - if you're like most of us, you weren't able to use your 2020 points so you will have double your allotment next year.

 

[traveling]

Am I the only one that thinks HGV totally messed over their HGV owners by suddenly (in a very small Stan Soroka (HGV Executive VP and Chief Customer Officer) August 21 announcement) cutting their HH conversion rate in half for all HGV owners, without exception (even their highest tier Elite Premier members) and without detailed explanation or rationale? Normally I would have expected some consideration for their company's most loyal (highest paying) customers, at the very least, or perhaps. In this newsletter, he states the reason for cutting the conversation ratio is to pay for giving everyone free transfer of club points from 2020 to 2021 and because COVID-19 impact was hard. Interesting that nowhere on the shareholder calls nor anywhere else in their corporate documentation do they mention this conversion strategy as a corporate cost saving measure or what it is saving them. Then, as if that announcement was not enough of an insult, they add in their FAQ "Consideration was given to suspending the Hilton Honors Points conversion program entirely for the remainder of the year. However we instead decided to implement a 50% conversion ratio to continue providing this benefit to our Club Members." From that, I guess we are to walk away smiling because the great HGV wizards have only stolen half our points this year. Well, I am not amused! I have searched everything in my contract for the fine print that says HGV can eliminate all benefits (not just this one) they promised us at any time they want (forever if they choose) and that everything they promised us for the thousands of dollars we paid and continue to pay is merely a temporary "gift" that can be withdrawn forever if HGV management so chooses. Still, even with no HGV extras at all, the contract clearly offers no exceptions to the requirement for the owners to pay without fail or be subject to foreclosure. I believe HGV has just dealt themselves a fatal shot buy letting their most loyal owners (and all others considering buying into HGV) know that everything they were promised in the contract can be withdrawn on a moments notice without negotiation--and there is nothing the owners can do about it. I just learned that whatever you think is there today and what you think it may cost or convert for may not be there tomorrow or next year--its that simple. Personally, I'm hoping that HGV reconsiders the magnitude of this decision and the repercussions of what they have done. I would be interested to know how much of Stan Soroka's nearly $2 million in annual compensation is impacted by these cost-cutting measures or his boss's nearly $7 million in compensation, Mark Wang. Mr Wang noted on his shareholder's call, "we reduced salaries for all team members and management across all levels of the organization.", but we don't know if that included him or Mr Soroka. I hope that all concerned HGV owners will write to Mr Soroka and Wr Wang (as I am) to express your outrage and concerns over their overnight manipulation of your benefits that were promised for the exorbitant prices you continue to pay each year. I would ask very blatantly, just exactly what benefits that you are now paying for are guaranteed??? IS HGV management at liberty to take all of them away on a moment's notice?? Is that the message that they want us to take to our friends and family and any interested buyers in this forum--or the internet??

 

[Tamaradarann]

While this is not a positive thing from a member perspective, HGVC is trying everything to possible to keep occupancy traffic up and their resorts open and trying to open resorts that are closed. Running a resort with only a few occupants is horrible from a cost standpoint as well as an employee morale perspective (furloughed workers, low tips, empty resort blues, no sales teams). When members are going to vacation HGVC wants them to use their points at HGVC resorts so that HGVC resorts become full and viable again. That is not the case right now and in the forseeable future.

When HGVC sees all of its resorts getting reasonably full again they will be urging members to use their points for HH Conversions and other points partners like they did before since resorts will be sufficiently full and viable again. Furthermore, conversions allow HGVC to rent nights at the resort that are deposited for income right now there are so many vacancies and few travelers renting available nights is not a concern.

Most people on TUG agree that using points for HH Conversions and other points partners, while a benefit, is a poor use of points and should only be done when one cannot possibly use the points for an HGVC resort. Right now many members can't or won't use their points at HGVC resorts, therefore, HGVC is allowing points to be saved until next year without cost. That is a benefit that normally members don't get. However, perhaps in 2021 things will be better and everything will open up again. They then want members to use their points at HGVC resorts not Hilton Hotels.

 

[SmithOp]

@traveling apparently you are an Elite member that utilized this benefit, so I can understand your point of view.

There are also a lot of owners that do not use it so its no big deal, happy they found a way to save costs that didn’t affect me. I have only positive thoughts about how the pandemic response is being handled.

If Hilton still owned HGV things might have been different, now its a spun off public traded company there are investors to satisfy. The street is bearish on HGV stock right now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Tamaradarann]

@traveling apparently you are an Elite member that utilized this benefit, so I can understand your point of view.

There are also a lot of owners that do not use it so its no big deal, happy they found a way to save costs that didn’t affect me. I have only positive thoughts about how the pandemic response is being handled.

If Hilton still owned HGV things might have been different, now its a spun off public traded company there are investors to satisfy. The street is bearish on HGV stock right now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I don't necessarily agree that traveling is a "Elite Member". I am an Elite Member and have 34,600 points, however, I don't have that point of view nor do I think that converting points to Hilton Honors is a good move, since the conversion rate is never benefiical to HGVC owners. Members get many more nights using HGVC points at HGVC resorts than converting to Hilton Honors and using them for Hotels.

If going to Hilton Hotels is a priority getting the Aspire American Express card and charging your HGVC maintenance and many of your Hilton Hotel costs(14 points/$), airline travel costs, restaurants, and car rentals(7 points/$) is a way to acquire a bank of Hilton Honors Points.

If the locations of the HGVC resorts do not satisfy ones vacation needs perhaps owning HGVC was not the correct timeshare system choice.

 

[brp]

There are also a lot of owners that do not use it so its no big deal, happy they found a way to save costs that didn’t affect me. I have only positive thoughts about how the pandemic response is being handled.

...nor do I think that converting points to Hilton Honors is a good move, since the conversion rate is never benefiical to HGVC owners. Members get many more nights using HGVC points at HGVC resorts than converting to Hilton Honors and using them for Hotels.

Pretty much. For those that don't consider this a good use of MF dollars, this is a non-issue. And, while there are exceptions, I think the majority opinion here is that this conversion is a bad idea under normal terms. That's why it appears that, on the whole, we don't care much about this...because we don't.

Cheers.

 

[PigsDad]

Still, even with no HGV extras at all, the contract clearly offers no exceptions to the requirement for the owners to pay without fail or be subject to foreclosure. I believe HGV has just dealt themselves a fatal shot buy letting their most loyal owners (and all others considering buying into HGV) know that everything they were promised in the contract can be withdrawn on a moments notice without negotiation--and there is nothing the owners can do about it.

I think you will find that most owners on this forum realize that what you own and what is specified in your purchase contract is a deeded week at one of HGV's resorts. That is, and always has been, clearly stated. The "club" membership is something that is available, but has never been guaranteed. I believe you will find that almost all timeshares follow this model.

Now with that said, this HGV to Honors conversion reduction is temporary, and given the strange times we find ourselves in, I am OK with that. I've been an owner for 15 years, and although HGV has the right to change or completely eliminate "club" benefits at any time, IMO they have been a great company, and have generally focused on giving their customers value for their club membership.

So no, I don't agree that HGV has "dealt themselves a fatal shot". I think most owners 1) know what they bought (a deed property, not a promise of benefits that could never change), and 2) realize this is a temporary change during these extraordinary times.

Kurt

P.S. A friendly suggestion: you might try to include some paragraph breaks in your posts -- it is extremely hard on the eyes to try to read a huge blob of text.

 

[Pathways]

Am I the only one that thinks HGV totally messed over their HGV owners by suddenly (in a very small Stan Soroka (HGV Executive VP and Chief Customer Officer) August 21 announcement) cutting their HH conversion rate in half for all HGV owners, without exception (even their highest tier Elite Premier members) and without detailed explanation or rationale? Normally I would have expected some consideration for their company's most loyal (highest paying) customers, at the very least, or perhaps. In this newsletter, he states the reason for cutting the conversation ratio is to pay for giving everyone free transfer of club points from 2020 to 2021 and because COVID-19 impact was hard. Interesting that nowhere on the shareholder calls nor anywhere else in their corporate documentation do they mention this conversion strategy as a corporate cost saving measure or what it is saving them. Then, as if that announcement was not enough of an insult, they add in their FAQ "Consideration was given to suspending the Hilton Honors Points conversion program entirely for the remainder of the year. However we instead decided to implement a 50% conversion ratio to continue providing this benefit to our Club Members." From that, I guess we are to walk away smiling because the great HGV wizards have only stolen half our points this year. Well, I am not amused! I have searched everything in my contract for the fine print that says HGV can eliminate all benefits (not just this one) they promised us at any time they want (forever if they choose) and that everything they promised us for the thousands of dollars we paid and continue to pay is merely a temporary "gift" that can be withdrawn forever if HGV management so chooses. Still, even with no HGV extras at all, the contract clearly offers no exceptions to the requirement for the owners to pay without fail or be subject to foreclosure. I believe HGV has just dealt themselves a fatal shot buy letting their most loyal owners (and all others considering buying into HGV) know that everything they were promised in the contract can be withdrawn on a moments notice without negotiation--and there is nothing the owners can do about it. I just learned that whatever you think is there today and what you think it may cost or convert for may not be there tomorrow or next year--its that simple. Personally, I'm hoping that HGV reconsiders the magnitude of this decision and the repercussions of what they have done. I would be interested to know how much of Stan Soroka's nearly $2 million in annual compensation is impacted by these cost-cutting measures or his boss's nearly $7 million in compensation, Mark Wang. Mr Wang noted on his shareholder's call, "we reduced salaries for all team members and management across all levels of the organization.", but we don't know if that included him or Mr Soroka. I hope that all concerned HGV owners will write to Mr Soroka and Wr Wang (as I am) to express your outrage and concerns over their overnight manipulation of your benefits that were promised for the exorbitant prices you continue to pay each year. I would ask very blatantly, just exactly what benefits that you are now paying for are guaranteed??? IS HGV management at liberty to take all of them away on a moment's notice?? Is that the message that they want us to take to our friends and family and any interested buyers in this forum--or the internet??

So to answer, I am sure you are not the only one, but appear to be quite the minority.

 

[Talent312]

Am I the only one that thinks...

Sorry, but I don't know what you think becuz I won't read such a huge, one-paragraph post.
Please break-up your writing into two-three sentence paragraphs with white-space between.
,

 

[PigsDad]

Sorry, but I don't know what you think becuz I won't read such a huge, one-paragraph post.
Please break-up your writing into two-three sentence paragraphs with white-space between.

Hey, at least they used punctuation and capitalized the first word of each sentence. There are some that don't do either, and it is almost impossible to read. Makes me wonder about the education system sometimes.

Kurt

 

[Tamaradarann]

I think you will find that most owners on this forum realize that what you own and what is specified in your purchase contract is a deeded week at one of HGV's resorts. That is, and always has been, clearly stated. The "club" membership is something that is available, but has never been guaranteed. I believe you will find that almost all timeshares follow this model.

Now with that said, this HGV to Honors conversion reduction is temporary, and given the strange times we find ourselves in, I am OK with that. I've been an owner for 15 years, and although HGV has the right to change or completely eliminate "club" benefits at any time, IMO they have been a great company, and have generally focused on giving their customers value for their club membership.

So no, I don't agree that HGV has "dealt themselves a fatal shot". I think most owners 1) know what they bought (a deed property, not a promise of benefits that could never change), and 2) realize this is a temporary change during these extraordinary times.

Kurt

P.S. A friendly suggestion: you might try to include some paragraph breaks in your posts -- it is extremely hard on the eyes to try to read a huge blob of text.

I agree with you that the club benefits are not "guaranteed" only the occupation of the timeshare unit that is purchased during the season that is purchased. However, the exchange benefits to other resorts in the HGVC system are very fair and favorable for members and it is what makes the timeshare purchase valuable and why we bought. Without it I would never have bought into the system. While the conversion of HGVC points to Hilton Honors points is a benefit that is offered, it is offered with a conversion rate which favors HGVC not the member. Therefore, while it can be done, it certainly is not what makes the timeshare purchase valuable.

 

[codyrainbow]

BAIT AND SWITCH
AS A W57th OWNER, 50% Redction in HH points is not what I agreed to when purchasing in NEW YORK with its higher price and maintenance fees.
HGVC is using the pandemic as an a excuse to RIP OFF WEST 57th owners.
Time for a class action against HGVC.

I agree entirely. Actually we are getting 25% reduction and I am calling them tomorrow. I can't believe this.

 

[Pathways]

I agree entirely. Actually we are getting 25% reduction and I am calling them tomorrow. I can't believe this.

Might I suggest to help the recipient of your call that you have your contract in hand so you can site the exact wording where that stipulation is spelled out.

 

[Talent312]

This is likely illegal as it is not in the terms.

I suggest you actually read the Rules:

"Club program use options, fees and rules, including but not limited to, the RCI Exchange Program, special exchanges, nightly point values, reservation windows, the Hilton Honors program, saving, RCI depositing, borrowing, converting, and ClubPartner Perks that may be offered from time to time, are subject to change, adjustment, suspension or discontinuation without notice." (emphasis added)

-- From "Club Reference 2020" (page 20)

IOW, it's likely quite legal.
,



.
,
.

 

[Nomad420]

BAIT AND SWITCH
AS A W57th OWNER, 50% Redction in HH points is not what I agreed to when purchasing in NEW YORK with its higher price and maintenance fees.
HGVC is using the pandemic as an a excuse to RIP OFF WEST 57th owners.
Time for a class action against HGVC.

Already spoken to owner at 57th and HCNY who are discussing the same thing. Didn't read the fine print but I remember asking this exact question at purchase and was told "it can't happen" and that something to the fact it was in the contract/agreement. NOT HAPPY!

 

[Nomad420]

-- From "Club Reference 2020" (page 20)

LOL need I say more, of course buried in the multipage contract. Have already spoken to attorney and am looking into what if any action can be taken. The fact is, as others have stated, it was an implied benefit of ownership. I suspect attorneys can make are argument for anything but it was a pretty low move in my opinion.

 

[Sebastiantheibis]

I suggest you actually read the Rules:

"Club program use options, fees and rules, including but not limited to, the RCI Exchange Program, special exchanges, nightly point values, reservation windows, the Hilton Honors program, saving, RCI depositing, borrowing, converting, and ClubPartner Perks that may be offered from time to time, are subject to change, adjustment, suspension or discontinuation without notice." (emphasis added)

-- From "Club Reference 2020" (page 20)

IOW, it's likely quite legal.
,
If the purchase were between 2015-9, does any one have access to rules in those years. Changing the rules may be fraudulent


.
,
.

 

[MPrince]

Already spoken to owner at 57th and HCNY who are discussing the same thing. Didn't read the fine print but I remember asking this exact question at purchase and was told "it can't happen" and that something to the fact it was in the contract/agreement. NOT HAPPY!

Were you not given the opportunity to read the contract documents before entering into the contract?

I was, and read every word before I signed.