Temporary 50% reduction in the Hilton Honors Points conversion ratios [REDUCTION LIFTED A/O JAN 1, 2021] [MERGED]

[ljmiii]

DO NOT BUY HGVC

I don't know when you bought HGVC and I don't want to beat a dead horse. But I do want one thing to be clear - Of the three systems (HGVC, DVC, MVCI) I own, HGVC has treated its owners best over the past decade and a half. And by far, treated its owners best through the disruptions caused by COVID-19.

If someone is thinking about timesharing in general and can accept the locations offered by HGVC, HGVC is indeed the one to buy.

(Of course, the future is uncertain and you could argue that in the case of an acquisition HGVC has the farthest to fall. But for now HGVC is a great choice).

 

[Wright17s]

HGVC uses the 50:1 ratio to entice and convince consumers to buy into the over priced units.
HGVC represents that the 50:1 conversion is a material value of the purchase
This is likely illegal as it is not in the terms
DO NOT BUY HGVC

The HGVC Club Rules have always said the "perks" such as RCI exchange, Hilton Honors program, reservation windows, etc. are subject to change without notice. This has been the case for as long as I've been an owner... you can't get mad at HGVC for executing what they have the right to do as specified in their terms & conditions just because you didn't read them before you purchased. All the more reason to be a TUG member and spend months researching before you jump in, you'll be happier in the long run.

Personally, I think HGVC has done an excellent job navigating the current environment... keep in mind all of us "owners" pay for all of the benefits in one way or another as HGVC has no other source of income other than what we pay for with sales, various club fees, etc. so if they weren't financially smart it would be passed on to us in the future.

This is a snippet from the HGVC 2020 Club Rules:

 

[Sebastiantheibis]

I guess you're right, it would be better to go bankrupt and everyone lose their investment than to cut a "perk" during this time when hotels and businesses are closing left and right. I think you should demand HGVC plays strictly by the rules, 2019 points are to be used in 2019, or they go poof, 2020 points are to be used in 2020 or they go poof. Everyone has an opportunity to use their points, places are open for business, so stick by the rules !!!

HGVC is not getting any sympathy from me
I think they are manipulating a national tragedy into an opportunity for more profits, and us owners are not their concern...

 

[Sebastiantheibis]

Thank you
Do you have a copy of said rules from 2006?
Timeshare operations are marginal at best, and very close to Pay Dsy loan operations...

The HGVC Club Rules have always said the "perks" such as RCI exchange, Hilton Honors program, reservation windows, etc. are subject to change without notice. This has been the case for as long as I've been an owner... you can't get mad at HGVC for executing what they have the right to do as specified in their terms & conditions just because you didn't read them before you purchased. All the more reason to be a TUG member and spend months researching before you jump in, you'll be happier in the long run.

Personally, I think HGVC has done an excellent job navigating the current environment... keep in mind all of us "owners" pay for all of the benefits in one way or another as HGVC has no other source of income other than what we pay for with sales, various club fees, etc. so if they weren't financially smart it would be passed on to us in the future.

This is a snippet from the HGVC 2020 Club Rules:

View attachment 25264

 

[Wright17s]

Thank you
Do you have a copy of said rules from 2006?
Timeshare operations are marginal at best, and very close to Pay Dsy loan operations...

I don't have a copy of the 2006 club rules, but 2018 and 2019 had the exact same verbiage.

 

[Ckhawaii]

HGVC is not getting any sympathy from me
I think they are manipulating a national tragedy into an opportunity for more profits, and us owners are not their concern...

wrong. Go read the HGV Q2 report. They are not making any type of profit. If the ship sinks, us owners go down with it.

 

[Sebastiantheibis]

I don't know when you bought HGVC and I don't want to beat a dead horse. But I do want one thing to be clear - Of the three systems (HGVC, DVC, MVCI) I own, HGVC has treated its owners best over the past decade and a half. And by far, treated its owners best through the disruptions caused by COVID-19.

If someone is thinking about timesharing in general and can accept the locations offered by HGVC, HGVC is indeed the one to buy.

(Of course, the future is uncertain and you could argue that in the case of an acquisition HGVC has the farthest to fall. But for now HGVC is a great choice).

Thank you

I don't have a copy of the 2006 club rules, but 2018 and 2019 had the exact same verbiage.

Thank you. I appreciate your input. I just regret ever getting into the timeshare conundrum. Poor me. Stupid me. My stupid decision. But it is a worthless and frivolous spend: I Don know of any more convoluted consumer product. Even if you bought a car worth $10K, it would be very unlikely in 5 years, that it would be worth $1.00. Friends don’t let friends buy timeshares....

 

[brp]

Friends don’t let friends buy timeshares....

Very interesting viewpoint. But I agree that timeshares are not for everyone. For those that can make it work to our advantage it is a great purchase. But, again, not for everyone.

Cheers.

 

[dayooper]

HGVC is not getting any sympathy from me
I think they are manipulating a national tragedy into an opportunity for more profits, and us owners are not their concern...

wrong. Go read the HGV Q2 report. They are not making any type of profit. If the ship sinks, us owners go down with it.

Here is the link to the discussion from earlier this summer. There’s a link to the Motley Fool transcript from the investor call.

I empathize with your situation. You bought into a system under false pretenses. The value has dropped. I agree, the sales department is deplorable. With that being said, the actual vacation portion of the system is very good. We have enjoyed our vacations immensely with HGVC and look forward to many more.

You mentioned you own at W57th. Do you owe anything on it? These deeds are usually worth more than $1. If you do a little research, you might find out it’s worth more than you think. Still a fraction of what you paid, but not $1. I’m sure if wanted to rid your self, you could find a buyer.

 

[dayooper]

Friends don’t let friends buy timeshares....

(FIFY) Friends don’t let friends buy from the developer.

 

[Wright17s]

Thank you. I appreciate your input. I just regret ever getting into the timeshare conundrum. Poor me. Stupid me. My stupid decision. But it is a worthless and frivolous spend: I Don know of any more convoluted consumer product. Even if you bought a car worth $10K, it would be very unlikely in 5 years, that it would be worth $1.00. Friends don’t let friends buy timeshares....

I'm sending good vacation vibes your way for 2021 @Sebastiantheibis!

 

[2Times]

Thank you

Thank you. I appreciate your input. I just regret ever getting into the timeshare conundrum. Poor me. Stupid me. My stupid decision. But it is a worthless and frivolous spend: I Don know of any more convoluted consumer product. Even if you bought a car worth $10K, it would be very unlikely in 5 years, that it would be worth $1.00. Friends don’t let friends buy timeshares....


I also own at W57th and bought the property unseen just a few months before it officially opened. I was comfortable with the sales pitch I received and had owned timeshares since the mid 80' so I got the gist of it. A glorified time-share. Okay, a nice time-share built by a classy Hotel group, in New York City. I get it. We have actually only used West 57th two times over the last 10-11 years since we prefer converting to HH Points. At 50:1 how could I not. Guess things have changed. New York isn't currently the adult playground it once was. That's life, for all of us. Don't get me wrong, I agree with much of what you have written. I too am not happy with the
decision that HGVC has come to.

I have always thought of Hilton Brand Hotels as upper tier hotel products. This is a move I would have expected from a lower tier Hotel family. My thoughts are that if HGVC is devaluing our point value by 50% due to current economic situations, it will prove to be a short sighted decision. I would have accepted and even agreed with a year to year decision about point values, but apparently they feel that a long term decision will best serve their interests. Loyal owners will have to "take what they get", and wait to see if it improves. Hmmm, does that sound dire? Do I sound bitter?

I leave you with this. We will all have to wait and see what evolves in the future, post covid, but, and its a big but - as a "Loyal" HGVC owner, who intends to keep his standing by honoring our contract, I feel my loyalty here is being taken for granted. Loyalty, once lost, like a reputation, may be lost forever.

 

[Pathways]

ll

Did I miss what you had to say?

 

[PigsDad]

Note to @Pathways -- you can see form the original quote that @2Times words were everything after the first major paragraph

I also own at W57th and bought the property unseen just a few months before it officially opened. I was comfortable with the sales pitch I received and had owned timeshares since the mid 80' so I got the gist of it. A glorified time-share. Okay, a nice time-share built by a classy Hotel group, in New York City. I get it. We have actually only used West 57th two times over the last 10-11 years since we prefer converting to HH Points. At 50:1 how could I not.

Can you give us examples of how Honors point conversion, even at 50:1, is a good deal? Most people say it is not. Add up all your MFs, dues and fees, then divide that by the number of Honors points you get, and then show how many Honors points it takes for your Hilton Hotels reservations and what the best cash price would have been for those same reservation. I'm honestly curious how that calculation works out for you.

I have always thought of Hilton Brand Hotels as upper tier hotel products. This is a move I would have expected from a lower tier Hotel family. My thoughts are that if HGVC is devaluing our point value by 50% due to current economic situations, it will prove to be a short sighted decision. I would have accepted and even agreed with a year to year decision about point values, but apparently they feel that a long term decision will best serve their interests. Loyal owners will have to "take what they get", and wait to see if it improves. Hmmm, does that sound dire? Do I sound bitter?

As was stated in the announcement, this Honors point conversion reduction is temporary. I'm not seeing it as a "long term decision" as you seem to be doing. I'm confused by your statement here.

Kurt

 

[tombanjo]

HH points are worth about .5 cents apiece. I can’t possibly see how they are any sort of value to convert to. With careful booking and planning, you can get some good deals occasionally, but mostly they come out to $50/$100/much more than booking normally. So many people have the credit cards that there are lots of points floating around and you get a free weekend too. With my bHC points I was booked for the Quin for opening and am very bummed NYC still has a 14 day quarantine and I had to cancel. Using W57th is a real bargain. The Conrad across from HCNY is $700+ a night in season. I paid for a Hilton garden inn in Times Square off season for like $150 which is pretty good deal, but points were far more than cash was.
Sorry it doesn’t fit you, but maybe you can find someone to trade off line for those sweet sweet points you crave. Your lose is their gain.

 

[BK2019]

(FIFY) Friends don’t let friends buy from the developer.

Any one who suggests buying a timeshare from a developer is not a friend. Though I would love to see those friends on Judge Judy.

 

[brp]

Any one who suggests buying a timeshare from a developer is not a friend. Though I would love to see those friends on Judge Judy.

Except from DVC where it can make sense since prices have actually gone up on resales and are competitive with Direct in a number of cases.

Cheers.

 

[Sandy VDH]

Out of all the timeshare point systems out there, I think that HGVC has been the earliest to act, have done the best they can to help owners with points, allowing already saved points to be saved another year (no charge), allowing reservations to be cancelled and all funds and points returned, are allowing us to save 2020 points into 2021 (no charge), allowed us to make free reservations for a period of time (no charge). All of these things I utilized this year.

It is a cash flow issue to minimize the flow of points in 2020 and 2021 into HH points. It costs them money to buy those points from Hilton. I don't begrudge the TEMPORARY nature of this issue to stop them from a large hemorrhage of cash. Now I don't care because I generally don't think this is a good use of points, and this was not a selling point for me in acquiring my HGVC points.

A lot of other timeshares operations have not been so good, so communicative, and for proactive doing something. I would rather give them kudos instead of vitriol. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[BK2019]

Except from DVC where it can make sense since prices have actually gone up on resales and are competitive with Direct in a number of cases.

Cheers.

Can’t argue with that I love my DVC contract and always bring it up to my fellow Disney junkies.

 

[BK2019]

I think Hilton has taken care of their customers the best through this crisis. They just have a lot of ill will due to their sales team.

 

[PigsDad]

I think Hilton has taken care of their customers the best through this crisis. They just have a lot of ill will due to their sales team.

I would agree. I separate the sales team from the rest of HGV. It's not hard to do, as you really have no need to ever interact with the sales team unless you choose to do so. Personally, I haven't attended a sales presentation in 15 years; it just makes vacationing so much better.

Kurt

 

[DazedandConfused]

Who else thinks this conversion will also apply to 2022 points???

 

[escanoe]

I don't think it will last beyond travel being significantly curtailed due to the pandemic-recession (I call it pancession). I know we all value different things from HGVC, but this is not a benefit that is of any concern to me.

Who else thinks this conversion will also apply to 2022 points???

 

[dayooper]

Who else thinks this conversion will also apply to 2022 points???

If travel is somewhat back to normal next year, no I don’t think it will be. If it’s still limited, then the lowered conversion ratio may still be in effect.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Out of all the timeshare point systems out there, I think that HGVC has been the earliest to act, have done the best they can to help owners with points, allowing already saved points to be saved another year (no charge), allowing reservations to be cancelled and all funds and points returned, are allowing us to save 2020 points into 2021 (no charge), allowed us to make free reservations for a period of time (no charge). All of these things I utilized this year.

It is a cash flow issue to minimize the flow of points in 2020 and 2021 into HH points. It costs them money to buy those points from Hilton. I don't begrudge the TEMPORARY nature of this issue to stop them from a large hemorrhage of cash. Now I don't care because I generally don't think this is a good use of points, and this was not a selling point for me in acquiring my HGVC points.

A lot of other timeshares operations have not been so good, so communicative, and for proactive doing something. I would rather give them kudos instead of vitriol. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I agree with the sentiment of your thinking here. I don't know if it actually costs them money to buy the HH points when there is a conversion or that they just give up a timeshare unit to HH in exchange. However, during this pandemic both Hilton Hotels and HGVC have a surplus of rooms with few customers or as in Hawaii are shutdown completely. Therefore, whenever the travel hiatus comes to an end HGVC wants members to have and use their points in HGVC resorts for the good of their resorts and resort staff who have been furloughed or underutilized. Allowing HGVC members to save points to a future year furthers this endeavor. Members converting their points to Hilton Honors does not.