Temporary 50% reduction in the Hilton Honors Points conversion ratios [REDUCTION LIFTED A/O JAN 1, 2021] [MERGED]

[Nomad420]

From what is stated above in theory they could completely eliminate the conversion to HH points. Again, never told of this obviously. I submitted my documents to my attorney yesterday to look at. I purchase in 2015. I am not the only person who he (my attorney) is looking into this for. Seems like I am always learning something negative about HGVC and this property that I purchased. Oh well live and learn.

 

[CanuckTravlr]

If the purchase were between 2015-9, does any one have access to rules in those years. Changing the rules may be fraudulent

Attached please find the 2016 rules brochure. I have, for your convenience, highlighted the section dealing with the Hilton Honors conversion rate on page 7.

It clearly states the conversion rate can be changed without notice, just as everyone has been telling you, even if you don't want to hear it. Quite frankly, your time might be better spent learning how to actually use your points. It would be far less stressful, costly, and more beneficial, than tilting at windmills with lawsuits.

I currently have an offer from Hilton to purchase up to 160,000 Honors Points at $10 USD per thousand and they will match them 100%. That is 320,000 Hilton Honors Points for $1,600 USD. If you are primarily interested in Hilton Honors Points, that is a better deal and lower cost than converting either 12,800 Club Points at 25:1 (or even 6,400 Club Points at the regular Elite conversion rate of 50:1), IMO.

Most of us here are experienced owners. We are trying to help you with advice on how best to use what you have purchased. The contract is what it is. The first step is to park your outrage. It is totally unproductive. The second step is to spend some time reading and learning.

 

[Tamaradarann]

From what is stated above in theory they could completely eliminate the conversion to HH points. Again, never told of this obviously. I submitted my documents to my attorney yesterday to look at. I purchase in 2015. I am not the only person who he (my attorney) is looking into this for. Seems like I am always learning something negative about HGVC and this property that I purchased. Oh well live and learn.

I am sure you know that HGVC was part of Hilton Worldwide. A few years ago it was broken away to be a separate corporation. Therefore, since Hilton Hotels is a separate corporation from HGVC the agreement/contract to allow conversions between the 2 corporations could be ended or changed by either side. In that same vain the timeshare you bought is a contract that gives you the right to occupy that unit for one week each year during the season that you purchased. The exchange and deposit privileges that we all enjoy are benefits to joining the HGV CLUB. The rules of the CLUB could be changed at any time.

Finally, let me ask why do you want to deposit your valuable week into Hilton Honors? I understand not vacationing right now, we have cancelled all our plans for the rest of 2020. However, 2021 is a new year and hopefully new vacation opportunities to use the timeshares we own.

 

[Nomad420]

I am sure you know that HGVC was part of Hilton Worldwide. A few years ago it was broken away to be a separate corporation. Therefore, since Hilton Hotels is a separate corporation from HGVC the agreement/contract to allow conversions between the 2 corporations could be ended or changed by either side. In that same vain the timeshare you bought is a contract that gives you the right to occupy that unit for one week each year during the season that you purchased. The exchange and deposit privileges that we all enjoy are benefits to joining the HGV CLUB. The rules of the CLUB could be changed at any time.

Finally, let me ask why do you want to deposit your valuable week into Hilton Honors? I understand not vacationing right now, we have cancelled all our plans for the rest of 2020. However, 2021 is a new year and hopefully new vacation opportunities to use the timeshares we own.

To the last part of your question I will NOT be trading my points into HH obviously given the "temporary" deal.
I am aware of the split of HH and HGVC, that occurred after my purchase. I tried to contact my initial sales rep who stated that the conversion was "fixed" and never mentioned that this could be eliminated all together (stated numerous times in above posts) but... surprise! He no longer works with HGVC. For me it is a principle issue. Did I read page 20 of the literally three ring folder of papers submitted to me, the answer is no. Did I ask, yes, and was not told it could be reduced and certainly not eliminated all together. Obviously this reduce the value of my purchase. FWIW I am not the only one who contacted my attorney about this specific issue.

 

[Tamaradarann]

To the last part of your question I will NOT be trading my points into HH obviously given the "temporary" deal.
I am aware of the split of HH and HGVC, that occurred after my purchase. I tried to contact my initial sales rep who stated that the conversion was "fixed" and never mentioned that this could be eliminated all together (stated numerous times in above posts) but... surprise! He no longer works with HGVC. For me it is a principle issue. Did I read page 20 of the literally three ring folder of papers submitted to me, the answer is no. Did I ask, yes, and was not told it could be reduced and certainly not eliminated all together. Obviously this reduce the value of my purchase. FWIW I am not the only one who contacted my attorney about this specific issue.

Right now with many the Hilton Hawaiian Village Resorts in Honolulu closed it has reduced the value of those that purchased timeshares in those resorts. They can't go to the resort they bourght. If a company that you buy stock in goes out of business the value of your purchase goes down. Many businesses have lost value and money and are going out of business due to the Coronavirus. While unlikely, there is always the possibility that HGVC could go out of business and all you will have is the unit you bought in your purchase with no exchange system and perhaps no management company to maintain your unit and building.

This is a major World Crisis and many people have been hurt physically, finacially and emotionally by this virus. While I do miss my vacationing in Honolulu this coming year I am happy my family and I are well, we have been only hurt a small amount financially, and we have been able to stay emotionally sound. I am hopeful that things get back to normal in the next year or so.

 

[MPrince]

To the last part of your question I will NOT be trading my points into HH obviously given the "temporary" deal.
I am aware of the split of HH and HGVC, that occurred after my purchase. I tried to contact my initial sales rep who stated that the conversion was "fixed" and never mentioned that this could be eliminated all together (stated numerous times in above posts) but... surprise! He no longer works with HGVC. For me it is a principle issue. Did I read page 20 of the literally three ring folder of papers submitted to me, the answer is no. Did I ask, yes, and was not told it could be reduced and certainly not eliminated all together. Obviously this reduce the value of my purchase. FWIW I am not the only one who contacted my attorney about this specific issue.

It doesn't matter what a salesman told you. His words are not part of the contract. What matters is the content of the contract you signed. You acknowledge you didn't read the contract in its entirety. You had the right to do so before signing, and chose not to do so. That's not HGVC/Hilton's fault, that's on you. Take responsibility for it, learn from it, and in the future read contracts and question anything you don't understand before signing.

 

[Nomad420]

It doesn't matter what a salesman told you. His words are not part of the contract. What matters is the content of the contract you signed. You acknowledge you didn't read the contract in its entirety. You had the right to do so before signing, and chose not to do so. That's not HGVC/Hilton's fault, that's on you. Take responsibility for it, learn from it, and in the future read contracts and question anything you don't understand before signing.

Thanks, but I'll let my attorney deal with the legal issue at hand here. FWIW the the sales rep statements were witnessed. However, in the end you may very well be correct or, more likely, it would cost me more to pursue what I feel is fraudulent representation of contract on my own. IF a class action law suite does arise out of this I will participate in it.

This is a major World Crisis and many people have been hurt physically, finacially and emotionally by this virus. While I do miss my vacationing in Honolulu this coming year I am happy my family and I are well, we have been only hurt a small amount financially, and we have been able to stay emotionally sound. I am hopeful that things get back to normal in the next year or so.
[/QUOTE]
I own at HCNY and because it is in the Hilton Hotel the property has been shut down for months as well. I believe it is opening back up sometime in Dec but I don't plan on returning any time soon. This property was significantly impacted by its location in the hotel which HGVC has said prolonged its closure. Obviously at this point I have no plans to sell my property at this location and eventually hope to return.
Again, to me this is more of a principle issue. I have been an honest business man all of my life. My word is paramount, I don't say what I don't mean. Perhaps that's just me and now the world has changed.....sadly.

 

[GT75]

I have been an honest business man all of my life. My word is paramount, I don't say what I don't mean. Perhaps that's just me and now the world has changed.....sadly.

I am sorry to inform you that TS salespeople don't live by that code. If they did, there would be no (or almost no) sales.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Thanks, but I'll let my attorney deal with the legal issue at hand here. FWIW the the sales rep statements were witnessed. However, in the end you may very well be correct or, more likely, it would cost me more to pursue what I feel is fraudulent representation of contract on my own. IF a class action law suite does arise out of this I will participate in it.

This is a major World Crisis and many people have been hurt physically, finacially and emotionally by this virus. While I do miss my vacationing in Honolulu this coming year I am happy my family and I are well, we have been only hurt a small amount financially, and we have been able to stay emotionally sound. I am hopeful that things get back to normal in the next year or so.

I own at HCNY and because it is in the Hilton Hotel the property has been shut down for months as well. I believe it is opening back up sometime in Dec but I don't plan on returning any time soon. This property was significantly impacted by its location in the hotel which HGVC has said prolonged its closure. Obviously at this point I have no plans to sell my property at this location and eventually hope to return.
Again, to me this is more of a principle issue. I have been an honest business man all of my life. My word is paramount, I don't say what I don't mean. Perhaps that's just me and now the world has changed.....sadly.
[/QUOTE]

I can understand your feelings about honest business and your word being paramount. I have the same life ethic. Many people in business don't have that ethic and use the laws and high priced Attorneys and Accountants to get out of paying people that work for them and taxes that they should be paying. However, even if what you say the timeshare salesman said was on videotape so it could be presented in court as evidence that you heard him say ""it can't happen" and that something to the fact it was in the contract/agreement", the the relationship between Hilton Hotels and HGVC is different than it was when you bought. That could be one of the reasons that the reduction in deposits of HGVC points into HH points has changed. If it is costing you nothing to pursue it go for it, however, if the attorney is charging you a retainer or charging you by the hour you may be spending money that could be used to pay for your timeshare maintenance and perhaps you should be planning your next vacation.

 

[SmithOp]

Wish I had a nickel for every time someone posted on TUG “but the salesman said XYZ”.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[jabberwocky]

Wish I had a nickel for every time someone posted on TUG “but the salesman said XYZ”.

And a nickel for everyone that said they are starting a class action lawsuit.

 

[Talent312]

For those who rely on salesmen statements: Parol evidence rule.
Look it up.

Rescission terms give peep time to learn what they've signed,
w/o the sales weasels running interference.

.

 

[GrampaTim]

On the rare occaision I've taken a "tour" with a salesperson, except for our original purchase, the reps started with false information very early in the presentation. ( With our initial purchase, and later upgrade, the reps and company were "over the top honest" ). Of course, if the beginning of the pitch is flawed, then it's clear nothing that will be said thereafter will be trustable. Before you sign anything, you absolutely have to study, and understand, the actual written agreement. Don't be surprised if it's a mismatch with what you were "told" you were signing. Timeshares can be quite enjoyable, but know exactly what you are getting upfront, and then actually use it.

 

[NOLA47]

WOW!! I had not seen this reduction notice. Thanks so much for the heads up. I have always felt that it was not a good deal too. However, with carrying Over this year’s point to 2021, I was planning to do it with my 2021 points. I have two conferences at hilton hotels with pricey rates that I planned to use Hilton honors points to reserve. By using Hilton honors points I could reserve five days and pay for four. Doing this for my two conferences would save me a lot of out of pocket funds and I would be able to stay in the host hotel - thus justifying converting this year. I doubt that I will do it with this big reduction in points. I’m so glad I saw your post. Thanks!!

 

[MPrince]

According to the Cornell Law School Legal Information Institute a majority of states no longer use the parol evidence rule. However, many contracts now include a parol evidence clause in which both parties acknowledge that the written document along with other documents incorporated by reference constitutes the entire agreement between the parties and that no verbal or other statements can be relied upon.

When I entered into my contract with HGVC, among the documents included in the agreement was a document called "Statement of Understanding" which included 16 sections, each of which had to be initialed. One of the sections covered Hilton Honors conversion, and specifically states that Honors benefits and point conversions are subject to change. Another section states that the Purchase Agreement along with governing documents contain all the terms and conditions of ownership and that you should not rely upon any oral representations as the basis for purchase.

 

[MPrince]

Thanks, but I'll let my attorney deal with the legal issue at hand here. FWIW the the sales rep statements were witnessed. However, in the end you may very well be correct or, more likely, it would cost me more to pursue what I feel is fraudulent representation of contract on my own. IF a class action law suite does arise out of this I will participate in it.

Have you gotten around to reading the contract you signed yet? If not, look for a three page document called "Statement of Understanding". If yours is the same as mine, you'll see all this talk of lawsuits is a waste of time and money. Your signature will be proof that no fraudulent representation occurred.

 

[semicycler]

Good news! Just got an email from HGVC. The conversion ratio reduction will be lifted on Jan 1, 2021.

"In my previous email, I shared with you our decision to temporarily reduce the conversion ratio for Hilton Honors Points. Starting on January 1, 2021, the Hilton Honors Points conversion ratio reduction will be lifted. We implemented this temporary reduction because the conversion of ClubPoints to Hilton Honors Points comes at a cost to HGV and, most important, we lose the opportunity to welcome you to an HGV resort. Now that most of our properties are accepting guests, our Team Members depend on you coming back to see us more than ever. Using your Points to book a stay at an HGV property will always be the most effective use of your Points. I thank you for your understanding with this temporary change and hope that you continue to turn to our resorts as your No. 1 vacation destination."

 

[Sandy VDH]

[MERGED]

October 12, 2020

Dear Club Members,

With each decision we've made this year, we've kept you at the heart of everything we do. As travel restrictions took hold, we waived our reservation cancellation policy through the end of the year and refunded transaction fees for reservations that were impacted by property closures. We also extended expiring Bonus Points and previously Saved Points. And on December 31, 2020, we will start the process of saving all unused 2020 ClubPoints into 2021 at no cost to you.

In my previous email, I shared with you our decision to temporarily reduce the conversion ratio for Hilton Honors Points. Starting on January 1, 2021, the Hilton Honors Points conversion ratio reduction will be lifted. We implemented this temporary reduction because the conversion of ClubPoints to Hilton Honors Points comes at a cost to HGV and, most important, we lose the opportunity to welcome you to an HGV resort. Now that most of our properties are accepting guests, our Team Members depend on you coming back to see us more than ever. Using your Points to book a stay at an HGV property will always be the most effective use of your Points. I thank you for your understanding with this temporary change and hope that you continue to turn to our resorts as your No. 1 vacation destination.

In the few cities where our properties remain closed, we've gone over in great detail all of our re-opening options. Some of these extended closures are due to restrictions impacting ease of travel or a resort's location within a larger hotel campus. Where travel restrictions have eased, we've re-opened most properties. And where we are part of a larger hotel campus, we've remained in constant communication with our partners so that our Team Members are ready for your arrival the moment a re-opening date is announced.

I remain optimistic about what lies ahead. Positive news continues to arrive out of our U.S. markets, with many now easing restrictions and entering new phases of re-opening, such as certain locations in Hawaii and the entire state of Florida. Information on many of these locations can be found by visiting our Travel Updates page. Looking forward, we have several exciting new resorts scheduled to open in 2021, including Liberty Place Charleston by Hilton Club and La Pacifica Los Cabos by Hilton Club, with even more openings in 2022 and beyond, such as The Beach Resort Sesoko by Hilton Club and Maui Bay Villas by Hilton Club.

The return of fall traditions symbolizes entry into a new season, both literally and figuratively, as we each adapt to the "new normal." Please join me in looking forward to all that is new.

Best wishes,

Stan Soroka
Chief Customer Officer
Hilton Grand Vacations

 

[traveling]

-- In my first post I was criticized for writing too much. This will be shorter.
-- The stated rationale for changing the HH conversion was less than truthful and/or incomplete. It was to force people to stay in their HGV units-- not because saving points "increased challenges" or to "mitigate some of the impact". If so, more explanation should have been given. The FAQ explaining basically we were lucky to get any conversion at all was a flippant, non-caring answer. As owners, we deserve more.
-- Yes, I read the whole Contract and the fine print.
-- To those who say so what, I say speak up when the erosion starts, to help those that need your support, like I did, or wait till its to late and all your benefits are gone. Read the rest of the "fine print". HGV can take all the benefits away whenever they choose, and they do not have to say why, and raise your maintenance fees as high as they like. Does anything in the contract matter to you? HGV has numerous safeguards to protect what matters to them--getting your money. What are our safeguards? Our collective voices, resales, recommendations here, social media, etc.
-- When will you decide to speak up??
-- Yes, I just read they have given the correct conversion rate back for 2021 (for now)--but we know HGV can remove/change anything with an email -- with no-notice and with flimsy rationale.

 

[KathyA]

Good news! Just got an email from HGVC. The conversion ratio reduction will be lifted on Jan 1, 2021.

"In my previous email, I shared with you our decision to temporarily reduce the conversion ratio for Hilton Honors Points. Starting on January 1, 2021, the Hilton Honors Points conversion ratio reduction will be lifted. We implemented this temporary reduction because the conversion of ClubPoints to Hilton Honors Points comes at a cost to HGV and, most important, we lose the opportunity to welcome you to an HGV resort. Now that most of our properties are accepting guests, our Team Members depend on you coming back to see us more than ever. Using your Points to book a stay at an HGV property will always be the most effective use of your Points. I thank you for your understanding with this temporary change and hope that you continue to turn to our resorts as your No. 1 vacation destination."

This does no good for 2020 or 2021 points, since next year's points (2021) must be converted to HHonors points by December 31, 2020. This has always been their policy. So when the policy reverts on January 1, you will be able to convert any or all of your 2022 points--at a fee-- into Hilton Honors for their "full value".

 

[traveling]

This does no good for 2020 or 2021 points, since next year's points (2021) must be converted to HHonors points by December 31, 2020. This has always been their policy. So when the policy reverts on January 1, you will be able to convert any or all of your 2022 points--at a fee-- into Hilton Honors for their "full value".

Thus the reason for my strongly worded protest to HGV senior management. They have opened the door to removing our contractually obligated benefits and provided flimsy rationale for doing so. They are testing us to see if any owners will speak up. I speak up when it first begins. Others will choose to wait until it is too late to make a difference. In this case, announce the conversion change Aug 21 and quickly announce they are back less than 7 weeks later--but they are not, as Kathy points out. We lost our right to fully convert for the years 2020 and 2021. They found out what they already knew. They can slowly take away our benefits, partially restore them, take away even more the next time, and the masses will stay silent.

 

[DazedandConfused]

Dear Club Members,

With each decision we've made this year, we've kept you at the heart of everything we do. As travel restrictions took hold, we waived our reservation cancellation policy through the end of the year and refunded transaction fees for reservations that were impacted by property closures. We also extended expiring Bonus Points and previously Saved Points. And on December 31, 2020, we will start the process of saving all unused 2020 ClubPoints into 2021 at no cost to you.

In my previous email, I shared with you our decision to temporarily reduce the conversion ratio for Hilton Honors Points. Starting on January 1, 2021, the Hilton Honors Points conversion ratio reduction will be lifted. We implemented this temporary reduction because the conversion of ClubPoints to Hilton Honors Points comes at a cost to HGV and, most important, we lose the opportunity to welcome you to an HGV resort. Now that most of our properties are accepting guests, our Team Members depend on you coming back to see us more than ever. Using your Points to book a stay at an HGV property will always be the most effective use of your Points. I thank you for your understanding with this temporary change and hope that you continue to turn to our resorts as your No. 1 vacation destination.

In the few cities where our properties remain closed, we’ve gone over in great detail all of our re-opening options. Some of these extended closures are due to restrictions impacting ease of travel or a resort's location within a larger hotel campus. Where travel restrictions have eased, we've re-opened most properties. And where we are part of a larger hotel campus, we've remained in constant communication with our partners so that our Team Members are ready for your arrival the moment a re-opening date is announced.

I remain optimistic about what lies ahead. Positive news continues to arrive out of our U.S. markets, with many now easing restrictions and entering new phases of re-opening, such as certain locations in Hawaii and the entire state of Florida. Information on many of these locations can be found by visiting our Travel Updates page. Looking forward, we have several exciting new resorts scheduled to open in 2021, including Liberty Place Charleston by Hilton Club and La Pacifica Los Cabos by Hilton Club, with even more openings in 2022 and beyond, such as The Beach Resort Sesoko by Hilton Club and Maui Bay Villas by Hilton Club.

The return of fall traditions symbolizes entry into a new season, both literally and figuratively, as we each adapt to the "new normal." Please join me in looking forward to all that is new.

Best wishes,

Stan Soroka
Chief Customer Officer
Hilton Grand Vacations

 

[MPrince]

My contract specifically states that Honors benefits and point conversions are subject to change. Nothing in the contract says any rationale, flimsy or otherwise, need be provided.

Your contract probably says the same.

Speak up all you want, but you likely have no legal leg to stand on. You lost no right to "fully convert" your points because under the contract the conversion rate is subject to change.

Make sure you read and understand a contract before signing it. Doing so will save you a lot of grief.

No one forced you to buy an HGVC timeshare, and if you are unhappy then sell it. Life is too short to go around being unhappy all the time.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

-- In my first post I was criticized for writing too much. This will be shorter.
-- The stated rationale for changing the HH conversion was less than truthful and/or incomplete. It was to force people to stay in their HGV units-- not because saving points "increased challenges" or to "mitigate some of the impact". If so, more explanation should have been given. The FAQ explaining basically we were lucky to get any conversion at all was a flippant, non-caring answer. As owners, we deserve more.
-- Yes, I read the whole Contract and the fine print.
-- To those who say so what, I say speak up when the erosion starts, to help those that need your support, like I did, or wait till its to late and all your benefits are gone. Read the rest of the "fine print". HGV can take all the benefits away whenever they choose, and they do not have to say why, and raise your maintenance fees as high as they like. Does anything in the contract matter to you? HGV has numerous safeguards to protect what matters to them--getting your money. What are our safeguards? Our collective voices, resales, recommendations here, social media, etc.
-- When will you decide to speak up??
-- Yes, I just read they have given the correct conversion rate back for 2021 (for now)--but we know HGV can remove/change anything with an email -- with no-notice and with flimsy rationale.

So you are just figuring out now that contracts with large companies are designed by lawyers to slant in their favor? If you read the contracts with your medical provider, Internet provider or bank, there is no difference.

It's temporary. They are being restated. HGVC is good to their owners. Stop worrying.

 

[ljmiii]

This does no good for 2020 or 2021 points....

I think that is rather the point. Hopefully, by 2022 the excess HGVC points caused by COVID-19 closures will have been flushed out of the system.