Living thru Hell Week Aruba right now

[Weimaraner]

Finally talked to a Marriott rep. There are two weeks in January to avoid. One is the Regents, the other is the religious group. They are very well aware of the problems with kids running unsupervised but they are owner families. I don't think Marriott would be surprised by any photos or videos. Personally I do not think the video thing is as easy as you think. For example we rode back from Stellaris on a golf cart with three unsupervised boys about 8-9 years old at night. While the cart was moving, one jumped off the right side and the other jumped in front of a moving car which was thankfully able to stop. This type of nonsense behavior is random. I've avoided this property at all costs since Tuesday's pool debacle and really don't feel like walking around with my ipad all day recording other people's kids. Maybe a hidden camera, but I wouldn't want to antagonize these bullies. I already got an earful for going to security. There are plenty of eyewitness accounts. I'm trying to salvage the rest of my vacation here before going back to freezing temps.

 

[chris5]

A lot you are missing the point.

As I said earlier, all that Marriott cares about is money. This group has a lot of it and doesn't care to flaunt it.

I agree that many miss the point. I don't think, however, that this guy at Marriott is solely concerned about money. http://www.blogs.marriott.com/.
He has a rich family legacy and if you can get to him about this situation, I don't think he'd be tone-deaf about a situation that appears to be tarnishing his family brand.

I think people need to better communicate their legitimate concerns to Marriott. Venting and ranting on blogs or internet bulletin boards doesn't seem to accomplish anything, especially when tinged with offensive remarks or anti-semitic observations about the group.

Also, I doubt this group has a lot of money. If they did, they'd rent out an entire resort and spare little expense to obtain the specific services they need. I doubt that each of the families involved in this week are all 1%ers. Sounds to me like they are making due with fractional timeshare interests in a creative manner.

It would really help me to understand this situation from the standpoint of this group. Maybe they've worked something out with Marriott and we're all clueless about it. We only hear one side of this situation. One might wonder what they would say about their use of the resort -- maybe they think others are interfering with their quiet enjoyment at a resort that they've paid good money to use.

Just saying . . .

Ok I'm really done with posting here.

 

[davidvel]

The great thing about TUG is that is unlike any other "board" out there, the general philosophy, the specific rules, and the moderators make it so. Most of us really want to speak our mind, or give our personal feelings on issues, but when they even remotely infringe on issues of religion/politics/social issues/sensitivities, there is no going back.

TUG's core purpose is to inform, educate, and help timeshare owners/users/noobies. TUG has steadfastly worked to enforce its hardline rule that the line not even be approached, and that's why TUG works.

If anyone does a little research on this topic you will understand the issues involved are complex and any commentary, in good faith or not, would cross the aforementioned line. Any discussion of the why is it happening, as opposed to simply what is happening, delves into those complex sensitive issues.

I think we all can agree that the behaviors are unacceptable, and Marriott must do more to deal with them, but beyond this any debate or discussion as to how or why, is simply impossible within the contraints of this great place.

 

[Beefnot]

The great thing about TUG is that is unlike any other "board" out there, the general philosophy, the specific rules, and the moderators make it so. Most of us really want to speak our mind, or give our personal feelings on issues, but when they even remotely infringe on issues of religion/politics/social issues/sensitivities, there is no going back.

TUG's core purpose is to inform, educate, and help timeshare owners/users/noobies. TUG has steadfastly worked to enforce its hardline rule that the line not even be approached, and that's why TUG works.

If anyone does a little research on this topic you will understand the issues involved are complex and any commentary, in good faith or not, would cross the aforementioned line. Any discussion of the why is it happening, as opposed to simply what is happening, delves into those complex sensitive issues.

I think we all can agree that the behaviors are unacceptable, and Marriott must do more to deal with them, but beyond this any debate or discussion as to how or why, is simply impossible within the contraints of this great place.

I can agree with that.

 

[piper_chuck]

That said I still think any large group that all know each other will end with the same bad behavior reports. When we vacation at a resort we are used to other families. We are not used to a convention setting where our vacation style is the minority. Pick any of a thousand groups taking over a resort and you are going to have the same issues.

I do not agree with this assertion. Large groups of families vacationing together will only degenerate into what is described in this thread if the parents have raised their children with a sense of superiority and entitlement that makes them think they can do whatever they want.

I assert that in fact most groups would not end up like this because most of us parents have instilled sufficient ethics and manners in our children to allow them to know right from wrong even when we're not watching. This doesn't mean they're not going to occasionally get rowdy while playing together, but not the extreme behavior described in this thread.

 

[piper_chuck]

Management said 2 of them are owners and we cannot force them to behave well.

Management is responsible for enforcing a set of rules. If the managers at this resort are saying they are not willing to enforce those rules then the owners should take action to find managers who will.

 

[csxjohn]

Let me come to Marriott's defense here though I'm probably in the minority of views here. I think Marriott should respect the ownership rights of all owners. Marriott can't simply go around and start kicking out owners who are not responsibly parenting their children, which appears to be the case during the so-called Hell Week. Unfortunately, as owners in a fractional share piece of real estate, all of us are stuck with each other -- and we don't have a choice in our timeshare ownership neighbors. Sometimes we get lucky and meet people we really like who are courteous and respectful -- from my personal observations, I've many encountered many more decent people than "jerks" in the resorts I've stayed over the years. I would not want Marriott to start acting as the manners and parenting police; that's not their job.

Moreover, for this particular situation, Marriott probably does not want to get the push-back it might receive from taking strong aggressive action against an organization that might claim that its being unfairly targeted for rude and offensive behavior. Just think about it for a moment. Here, in TUG, it took the intervention of the Tug Administrator to identify the group by its own name because of the apparent sensitivity others might have over naming that group/organization, and yet we implore Marriott to be aggressive against this group and incur potential backlash and push-back from those who might exhibit equal sensitivity towards this organization!

Unless this group is causing property damage to the resort or engaging in illegal conduct, which might be grounds for Marriott to terminate ownership, I'm afraid other owners of Hell Week are stuck with this group. (And we don't know if this "group" owns timeshare interests in group name or individual members of the group own the timeshare interest; in each case, there might be differing legal implications). However, the fact that Marriott is now requiring a Surety Bond with this group is a very good sign that Marriott is laying the foundation for taking appropriate action if the group starts vandalizing or damaging resort property.

For me, I still believe the leadership of the organization needs to held accountable. I just can't fathom the idea that it condones this behavior. I'd shame it relentlessly over this. And ensure Marriott knows about it too because this is actually damaging to the Marriott brand and timeshares in general! I'd call up the major newspapers in major media markets about this situation and suggest that they send one of their reporters to Aruba in January to investigate Hell Week -- I'm sure someone sees value in such a story.

Or better yet, next time, next year, get the cameras out and show the rude behavior -- this could go viral on YouTube! I bet you'll get someone's attention over this.

You must have missed post #95 which points out in part

"Look through the governing docs for your resorts. There are myriad sections detailing what actions Marriott can take if the various common courtesy rules are not followed. There IS language which supports Marriott not allowing owners the use of their ownership if any owners/guests are negatively affected by others. In drastic cases there are allowances for suspending ownership."

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I don't think it's money with the MVCI resorts. Marriott that manages the MVCI resorts is not the same as the Marriott making money off the hotel and conference rooms. The management at the resorts are not getting anything from this group. One could take heat from the other but technically they are not related.

 

[psguru]

Let me clear a few things up for everyone. This group has more than enough money. Money isn't the issue. As for having someone push the buttons on the elevator for them; that's a religious issue. I have no problem with that.

I think you have to get a better understanding of their culture. And before anyone accuses me of anti-semitism, I'm Jewish. My family has dealt with this group on personal and business levels for decades. We have some great friends that are part of this group but even they will tell us never go on a vacation where they're going to be.

There's a sense of entitlement, a general feeling that anyone not part of their group is beneath them. This is taught from an early age. Everyone else is a second class citizen. There is no respect, no manners, no supervision.

I can't even begin to tell you how many run-ins I've had with them since I started going to Aruba in 1998. I used to have to take off the week they did because of my kids' school schedules but never again will I.

The best way to deal with them is to push back. Their entire lives no one has ever said no to them. Not their parents, not the nannies, no one. If you push back, they won't know what to do.

A few years ago, a group of them kept walking through our area on the beach. Plenty of room to walk but they decided to keep walking through. The third time I stopped them. I asked them why they couldn't walk around like everyone else. They had no answer. My group and I started laughing. I asked them again. I even said that if it's for a good reason maybe I'd understand and apologize. Still no answer. They walked on and avoided us the rest of the week. Problem solved.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

We have some great friends that are part of this group...

There's a sense of entitlement, a general feeling that anyone not part of their group is beneath them. This is taught from an early age. Everyone else is a second class citizen. There is no respect, no manners, no supervision.

How can you have great friends that are part of the group if you firmly believe your statement? Are you saying that your "great" friends believe you to be beneath them and second class citizens?

 

[psguru]

We have great friends that are part of the group in general, not the group that comes down to aruba. I would say what group it is but apparently it wouldn't be PC.

 

[SueDonJ]

How can you have great friends that are part of the group if you firmly believe your statement? Are you saying that your "great" friends believe you to be beneath them and second class citizens?

I know I have dear friends who aren't in awe of every facet of my personality and the reverse is true as well.

Human nature is a funny thing. Human culture is a bewildering thing. I think Davidvel is correct, that it's probably not possible to explore this particular culture in detail without offending, possibly legitimately, someone's sensibilities.

We now can feel free to name the group when discussing this topic, which should stop 90% of the complaints/bickering that has taken place over the years. Let's not look to resume it just yet.

 

[Ridewithme38]

There's a sense of entitlement, a general feeling that anyone not part of their group is beneath them. This is taught from an early age. Everyone else is a second class citizen. There is no respect, no manners, no supervision.
.

This is completely incorrect, i have worked with people of the Orthodox religion also, and i can tell you they were nothing but respectful and helpful to me. Their children were fun and understanding.

I worked in the lowest possible profession too during college, vacuuming pools on their property. I can tell you dozens of stories of them coming out to help me when needed, coming out of pocket for tips with they saw i was working hard, even sitting around and 'keeping me company' while i worked with great conversations about anything and everything.

I have even dealt with many children who were swimming when i showed up and they immediately got out and played somewhere else when asked, i've found frogs and turtles in 'skimmer baskets' and brought the children over to show them and they watch and listened politely as i explained about the types of turtles and frogs in the area. Even the youngest children were 'gentle of hand' when dealing with these animals.

So i don't know WHO you've been dealing with psguru, but I think it maybe a case of 'pre-judging' instead of how they actually are.


Signed,
Seth from NY

 

[psguru]

Seth, i'm not referring to the Orthodox community whatsoever. It's the Sephardics I'm talking about. Completely different. Again, it's not a religious issue. It's an issue of respect for others.

 

[SueDonJ]

Okay, STOP!

We're not going to do this. We're not going to give each other a chance to find insult when none is intended.

Now focus. If you want to talk about what happens in Aruba in January at the Marriotts, knock yourself out. If you want to talk about the people who are involved, limit your comments to what they do while they're in Aruba that causes problems for anyone else.

Cripes. It's not even 24 hours that you've been given a victory with this topic. Don't push your luck.

 

[EKniager]

No the specific week is most definitely there. Look at the brochure.

http://sephardicaruba.com/downloads/sephardic_aruba_brochure.pdf

The brochure indicates the enormity of the group especially with scheduled fee camps for kids that are organized at the "Marriott Hotel Beach Area". I don't care who the group would be or how well behaved I would avoid something like this like the plague. Even if this was the most well behaved group on the planet a mass that size moving together would get in the way.

As Sue noted earlier, you might want to check the days and dates again. This brochure "most definitely" does not refer to 2014. Sunday the 18th? Friday dinners on the 16th and 23rd? Not this year.

 

[SueDonJ]

Weimaraner, and anyone else who has eyewitness knowledge of what happens in January in Aruba at the Marriotts, in my and many others' opinion you have good reason to escalate your concerns from the resort personnel (who don't appear to have control of the situation) to Marriott Vacations Worldwide. These few contacts may be able to help if you choose to take your concerns further:

Customer Care
PO Box 690549
Orlando, FL 32869-0549
800-860-9384
customer.care~AT~vacationclub.com

Public Relations
MVCICA~AT~vacationclub.com

Executive Leadership
6649 Westwood Blvd., Suite 500
Orlando, FL 32821
United States of America
P: 407-206-6000
(Here I think I would target Clifford M. Delorey, Executive Vice President & Chief Resort Experience Officer. An excerpt from his bio: "Delorey currently oversees the on-site management of Marriott Vacation Club and Grand Residences by Marriott properties around the globe, provides oversight and coordination of the on-site management company for The Ritz-Carlton Destination Club, and is responsible for the development and financial performance of resort-based ancillary businesses.")

(Change ~AT~ to @, of course.)

 

[Saintsfanfl]

As Sue noted earlier, you might want to check the days and dates again. This brochure "most definitely" does not refer to 2014. Sunday the 18th? Friday dinners on the 16th and 23rd? Not this year.

Either they already did the brochure for 2015 or they made a mistake on the dates. Sunday is the 18th for next year. Certainly the brochure isn't so old it refers to 2009??

 

[SueDonJ]

Either they already did the brochure for 2015 or they made a mistake on the dates. Sunday is the 18th for next year. Certainly the brochure isn't so old it refers to 2009??

That link is that old, and that website hasn't been updated in years (since negative reports all over the web included links to the site.) That's one reason why the NY Regents Exams schedule is usually linked in TUG threads, because we haven't had a means to officially verify dates but more often than not the dates coincide despite there being different groups.

Some here have said that it's possible to verify upcoming dates on the web. I didn't think it was still possible with that website being inactive and the school's website also not current to a year ahead, but if anyone wants to share an active site that works it would be appreciated.

 

[Sullco2]

a story

[You suspected correctly - this is not helpful.]

 

[csxjohn]

...They then decided that for the length of the 4+ hour flight they would not change any of their children's diapers (about 5 or 6 babies), to stink up the plane!

...

[deleted]

I'm glad this thread and others like it have made me aware of this situation. If I ever plan a trip to Aruba I'll be re-visiting this thread for dates and resorts.

 

[rpk113]

Knock yourselves out

[deleted - no need]

 

[billymach4]

Why is this year's thread permitted to languish and prosper for so long. We all get the drift here, but I am really perplexed as to why the mods continue to permit bashing of this particular group.

While I don't agree with the abuse that the guests have to endure. (BTW I own at this resort) there is blatant prejudice, and stereotyping in this thread.

This needs to stop now!

Especially from post #172 and the link.

By the way RPK113 you may live in Rockland, but this particular subgroup appears to be from Queens, or other parts of NYC.

I would venture to say they come from parts of Nassau County, like Great Neck and the South Shore including the 5 towns area rather than the Rockland sect.

 

[SueDonJ]

[Link disabled, post being reviewed.]

Is this school affiliated with the trip to Aruba? Did you mean to include this link as a way to verify the dates for upcoming years? Because I can't get the calendar to load past October 2014.

 

[infamazz]

Just to clarify - the brochure that's available for download on the website mentions Sunday, January 18th through Friday, January 23rd. Those days/dates do not correspond to the 2014 calendar, and in fact the website/brochure has not been updated since the first year that the activities were negatively described on the web. It's been quite a few years since the group has used the internet to organize this trip.

As far as trying to pin down whether it's Week 3 or 4, or tie it to the exact dates of NY Regents Exams schedules, we haven't been able to do it because it changes every year. Suffice it to say that if you don't want to be a part of it, you probably shouldn't risk a stay either week.

As the NYS Regents Week theory has now been discredited, it seems to me that the week usually coincides with MLK week. At least that's what it has coiincided with over the past several years from my readings on the topic. Sometimes MLK week falls on the 15th, sometimes on the 21st. That would explain the difference in Hell Week seemingly falling in the middle of the month sometimes rather than later.