WSJ - Coral Vista Villas phase

[DavidnRobin]

.

What do you mean by "network max"? My Platinum WSJ Studio is worth 44,000 Staroptions. A studio at WKORVN is worth 67,100 My WSJ Platinum Premium 1 bedroom townhouse is only worth 51,700 Staroptions. This compares to the 1 bedroom at WKORVN worth 81,000

The high season (Plat+) for VGV studios is 67.1K SOs - would you suggest that this be 81K SOs - and on par with a 1Bd in HI?

Plat+ season for 3Bd VGV and 3Bd BV villas are already 196K SOs (and HRA 3Bd in Plat+ is 196K SOs as well) - would you suggest that they also be higher?

The problem is that you are equating a Plat in HI (highest level) to a Plat at WSJ (2nd level) .

I agree - no way are they going to shift the SOs for VGV anymore (or BV) - the SOs for the new phase is going to be aligned with those (like for like within that region).

The 2Bd Plat+ in the new Coral Vista (CV) phase will almost assuredly be 148.1K SOs, and Plat+ CV studios will be 67.1K SOs (in line with BV and VGV) - and then down from there.

But... why the heck not? Raise VGV up!
If wishes were fishes - I would throw nets.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Is this because these units are even closer? I'm assuming that these are the ones slightly lower and to the right if BV as you look up the hill?

I wonder if hear will be flex season like BV. How does the number of these units compare to BV?

I'm curious because I was planning to buy a BV summer float week but now I'm thinking it might be better to wait...although BV barely had a view so this section will probably have even less if a view.

The villas are closer to the water and pool, and lower down the hill by one level (not unsteep) - the view may not be as expansive as VGV, but it will be a closer view of the water (and resort). Not for me, but others may prefer.

I would assume that they will follow BV in regards to float and fixed - as well as seasons, MFs, and SOs.

 

[Cornhusker]

Very interesting. The sales people were quite tight lipped about the renovations at my owners update there a few weeks ago. They were really pushing the BV 3BD and 2BD Lofts in Gold season, where most of their inventory remains. They treated VG like a separate entity of militant separatists. I will admit the 2 BD Lofts are pretty nice.

I guessed the sudden Sgt Schultz syndrome about the upcoming renovations were aimed at selling the "dwindling" VOI remaining in BV. That being said, the owners update at WSJ was pleasant compared to all the other resorts I have visited to date.

 

[czar]

Very interesting. The sales people were quite tight lipped about the renovations at my owners update there a few weeks ago. They were really pushing the BV 3BD and 2BD Lofts in Gold season, where most of their inventory remains. They treated VG like a separate entity of militant separatists. I will admit the 2 BD Lofts are pretty nice.

I guessed the sudden Sgt Schultz syndrome about the upcoming renovations were aimed at selling the "dwindling" VOI remaining in BV. That being said, the owners update at WSJ was pleasant compared to all the other resorts I have visited to date.

In mid-August they went as far as telling me that this project was not
approved and no funding was in place so it would not happen in the near future. Hmmm...a lot has changed in 6 weeks.

 

[Cornhusker]

In mid-August they went as far as telling me that this project was not
approved and no funding was in place so it would not happen in the near future. Hmmm...a lot has changed in 6 weeks.

Yes it has, comrade czar. I had read a lot about the rumors but did not press them in the update. I pressed more for VG inventory and played the mandatory card instead. The conversations, as always, lead to enlightenment eventually.

I think we will be quite interested in a VOI at WSJ because we just loved the island and want to return again and again. Just want to make the correct decisions.

 

[tomandrobin]

I think we will be quite interested in a VOI at WSJ because we just loved the island and want to return again and again. Just want to make the correct decisions.

Welcome to the St John Lovers Club! We'll be waiting for you.

 

[SMHarman]

.

What do you mean by "network max"? My Platinum WSJ Studio is worth 44,000 Staroptions. A studio at WKORVN is worth 67,100 My WSJ Platinum Premium 1 bedroom townhouse is only worth 51,700 Staroptions. This compares to the 1 bedroom at WKORVN worth 81,000

What do you mean by "network max"?
You have to compare apples to Apples here.
http://www.tug2.net/advice/svn_valuechart.pdf
So first acknowledge that SVO has put all of HI as Platinum+ weeks and that there are Hurricane weeks in WSJ that are not Plat+ but Gold+ I've never been there but I read on the WSJ thread that the island kinda shuts down in September / October.

A Hillside Studio in 51-15 weeks is 67,100 points
A Hillside 1Br Prem (51-15) is 81,000
A Hillside 2Br not LO (51-15) is 148,100. Compare to say the Lakeside Terrace 2Br non LO or HRA non LO 2BR you are doing better here, at Lakside and HRA that is only 129,800 SO. Same for Bay Vista (but that is 51-18)
3 Bedrooms are also 196,900 this compares to the HRA 3 bedrooms, but those are also LO, not pure 3BR. This also compares to the Steamboats 3Br units in ski season (48-15). I'm pretty sure the MF on those is also similarly high.

But to compare to the Steamboat 3Br which is 196,900 in ski season you can get the same unit for 57,700 in mud season which 'Silver'. Your WSJ unit even with Windstorms bearing down on it is Gold+.

The WSJ and the HRA points charts are pretty much identical, especially on Hillside. HRA gets a bump on the Thanksgiving week from Gold+ to Platinum and the switchover weeks move a week or so here and ther but that is about the only difference.

How would you propose that the WSJ points chart is revised? If you gave everyone platinum (like HI) then who would be happy when they found the only week they could book was week 40? It's already a problem with HI that owners get shut out of summer weeks at 9:05 on a Saturday morning 12 months out.

My Platinum WSJ Studio is worth 44,000 Staroptions. A studio at WKORVN is worth 67,100 My WSJ Platinum Premium 1 bedroom townhouse is only worth 51,700 Staroptions. This compares to the 1 bedroom at WKORVN worth 81,000

Lets rewrite that correctly.

My Platinum WSJ Studio is worth 44,000 Staroptions.
A Platinum PLUS studio at WKORVN is worth 67,100
My WSJ Platinum X-P-r-e-m-i-u-m-X 1 bedroom townhouse is only worth 51,700 Staroptions.
This compares to the 1 bedroom Platinum PLUS at WKORVN worth 81,000

If you bought a 51-15 week at WSJ Hillside or 51-18 week at Bay Vista then would have the same StarOptions as a HI purchase.

 

[LisaRex]

First of all, a link to the WSJ map which will help everyone picture where the new timeshares will be located. (Which makes me wonder if these were just regular hotel rooms before this?)

http://www.omvillasstjohn.com/images/westin_map.gif

Anyway, I've stayed in bldg 24 before, and the walk to the main resort isn't bad at all. The main downside, IMO, is the parking issue. Having to walk up the hill at the end of a long day snorkeling is a minor PITA. You can hail a golf cart (what do they call these things?), but sometimes it's a long wait. The new phase will have the same issue.

 

[LisaRex]

Now re SOs, which probably should have its own (civil!) discussion:

I have a few beefs with the SOs, the main being that I think they should be tied with MFs. Ha! But I realize that that ship has sailed and there's no going back unless Starwood does what Marriott has done, and gets into the business of selling SOs outright. Which I definitely don't want them to do! Marriott's system is now so convoluted that I wouldn't consider buying there anymore.

However, assuming we keep the same multi-tiered structure, IMO, there are a few oddities in the system.

1) WLR - most of us know what happened here, but for those who don't, when WLR was first marketed, the SOs were much lower, more in line with SVV IIRC. It made sense because Cancun lodging is so much cheaper than US properties. But they weren't selling well. So they upped the SOs, and put it on par with Hawaii -- a 2 bdrm in Hawaii during platinum plus season is the same SOs as a 2 bdrm platinum plus season in Cancun.

End result is that it's great for WLR owners who bought from the developer, but out of alignment with reality. In reality, I can rent a great 2 bdrm in Cancun for about $1000. Hawaii is double or triple that. No way would I spend 148,100 SOs to get in. Instead, I'd use II or rent directly from an owner.

There's no way to realign them lower at this point, however, so WLR will probably always remain an outlier

2) HRA/WSJ Summer season = platinum season - This, IMO, is the biggest miss. The bean counters didn't do their due diligence or they'd realize that even though summer in the Caribbean doesn't sound as attractive as winter in the Caribbean, it is absolutely as in demand. Families love to flock to beaches in the summer, be it to Florida or Hilton Head or the Caribbean. And even though this would hurt me as a mandatory owner, I think the SO valuation should be increased so that summer months are coded as platinum plus, at least the weeks before hurricane season starts.

I booked a 3 bdrm at HRA for 125k SOs. I could have gotten a 2 bdrm for 95.7k SOs. For the same week in Hawaii, a 2 bdrm would have cost me 148.1k SOs. Sorry, but that's out of whack.

 

[alexadeparis]

If I had to guess at what size the studios seem to be based on the size of the 2 bedroom, I would say about 900 square feet or so.

 

[SMHarman]

Now re SOs, which probably should have its own (civil!) discussion:

I have a few beefs with the SOs, the main being that I think they should be tied with MFs. Ha! But I realize that that ship has sailed and there's no going back unless Starwood does what Marriott has done, and gets into the business of selling SOs outright. Which I definitely don't want them to do! Marriott's system is now so convoluted that I wouldn't consider buying there anymore.

However, assuming we keep the same multi-tiered structure, IMO, there are a few oddities in the system.

1) WLR - most of us know what happened here, but for those who don't, when WLR was first marketed, the SOs were much lower, more in line with SVV IIRC. It made sense because Cancun lodging is so much cheaper than US properties. But they weren't selling well. So they upped the SOs, and put it on par with Hawaii -- a 2 bdrm in Hawaii during platinum plus season is the same SOs as a 2 bdrm platinum plus season in Cancun.

End result is that it's great for WLR owners who bought from the developer, but out of alignment with reality. In reality, I can rent a great 2 bdrm in Cancun for about $1000. Hawaii is double or triple that. No way would I spend 148,100 SOs to get in. Instead, I'd use II or rent directly from an owner.

There's no way to realign them lower at this point, however, so WLR will probably always remain an outlier

2) HRA/WSJ Summer season = platinum season - This, IMO, is the biggest miss. The bean counters didn't do their due diligence or they'd realize that even though summer in the Caribbean doesn't sound as attractive as winter in the Caribbean, it is absolutely as in demand. Families love to flock to beaches in the summer, be it to Florida or Hilton Head or the Caribbean. And even though this would hurt me as a mandatory owner, I think the SO valuation should be increased so that summer months are coded as platinum plus, at least the weeks before hurricane season starts.

I booked a 3 bdrm at HRA for 125k SOs. I could have gotten a 2 bdrm for 95.7k SOs. For the same week in Hawaii, a 2 bdrm would have cost me 148.1k SOs. Sorry, but that's out of whack.

1) Any system will have oddities, and tying SO to MF could easily create an arms race of MF to retail the value of the resort within the system, I concur that this should be rejected.

I'm not sure the analysis of WLR stands though. Aruba would have followed a similar model to WLR
https://www.mystarcentral.com/CMS/e...tions/staroptions_charts/svn_dailyoptions.pdf

While there are weeks you can rent a 2Br in WLR for $1,000 and some of them may be during the winter, it is also a massive resort so supply / demand pushes prices down. Also, even in winter, those weeks you could get a $1k week would be the Gold Plus weeks, though as you note, the summer 24-35 weeks are P+.

Even here where the prices are closest to market there are no $1k 2Brs
http://tug2.com/RnR/TabResortClassi...sortGUID=2d70b884-9304-4cf3-94a8-ccae41ee983d

2) I do think that Caribbean summer is less desirable than HI summer. East Coasters (and I am a transplant from a far damper climate) tend to stay more local during the summer. My Wife, a New Yorker would never dream of taking a Caribbean vacation during June-September, "Why travel when there is great weather at home, I'll save those travel $$ for when the weather is cold and dull", and we are heading to HRA in early February (and were at WLR last winter), which takes that statement full circle.

 

[Henry M.]

I bought a 2 BR BV unit this past April, direct from Starwood, despite all the advise against it. I wanted to have guaranteed availability at WSJ the times I wanted to go, after seeing how difficult it was to get so something there. I couldn't find any resale units there. Resales in VG were not that much cheaper, and I actually preferred BV after visiting there (different strokes for different folks - I can see why some would prefer VG, and would encourage them to buy there). I used a $0 resale price in my decision process, though I don't think it will go quite that low. We just liked St. John so much and wanted to be able to reserve when we wanted to. Platinum is fine for our travel arrangements, don't really want Platinum+, independent of cost. I was already 5* so that didn't matter either.

They did mention there might be a Coral Vista then (didn't have a name), but they said the renovations wouldn't be quite as extensive (read expensive) as BV. At BV, they tore down the buildings to the foundation. Apparently, they don't plan to go quite that far at CV. Of course, that remains to be seen. I hope the renovations are as nice as BV. I do like to be able to exchange to WSJ, as some years I might want more than one week there.

 

[LisaRex]

Even here where the prices are closest to market there are no $1k 2Brs
http://tug2.com/RnR/TabResortClassi...esortGUID=2d70b884-9304-4cf3-94a8-cca41ee983d

Well, your link doesn't provide much data to work with. For instance, there are no 2 bdrms for rent at WLR at all. Secondly, I was talking about Cancun overall, not just WLR. There are a ton of other highly rated resorts where you can book a 2 bdrm for $1200 in winter on Redweek. Remember that these are STARTING rates.

For instance, the Royal Sands is #21 on TripAdvisor (vs. #16 for WLR). Look at the rental rates:

http://www.redweek.com/resort/P316-the-royal-sands
http://www.tug2.com/RnR/TabResortCl...sortGUID=0f8d953d-eac9-4a4b-a6c9-accddacdf7f5

Now if you just look just at WLR, the prices are, indeed, higher. But only four have actually rented, and 3 of them were event weeks (Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's week). The other one was $1000 for a 1 bdrm.

http://www.redweek.com/resort/P5561...sort_sales=&sort_rentals=bedrooms&send=Submit

2) I do think that Caribbean summer is less desirable than HI summer.

Well, yes, but I think the data would suggest that beach locales are as popular in the summer as they are in the winter because the kids are out of school. I mean, why else would Hilton Head, SC be hopping busy in mid-July? It's hotter than hades and the humidity is through the roof. Yet...try to book an II exchange to HHI in the summer. Impossible. Ditto (apparently) for HRA and WSJ.

 

[LisaRex]

I bought a 2 BR BV unit this past April, direct from Starwood, despite all the advise against it.

I don't know why anyone would advise against owning something that is so difficult to exchange into, in order to guarantee that I could book the week I wanted. Those are two very sound reasons why I WOULD buy...though I'd definitely try to find it resale first.

Soooo, congratulations!

 

[DavidnRobin]

So... ironically WSJ VGV just had the SOs and SPs upped for 2015 - I do not have SPs since it is resale, but it use to be 22K SPs for my week (2Bd TH Gold+) and is now 51.6K SPs

And, importantly, the SOs have increased from 81K to 95.7K SOs

*****
More good news for Virgin Grand Villas Owners at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas. As a result of the extensive resort enhancements and renovations, your StarOptions® and Starpoints® conversion values will be increasing effective with your 2015 Use Year.
•More flexibility for longer stays at other resorts in our villa collection
•More opportunities to stay at Starwood hotels and resorts around the world
•Reserve a seven-night stay in all phases of your resort in the same villa type and season you own in Virgin Grand Villas
*****

looks like SVO is reading the TUG Starwood Forum {kidding}

 

[tomandrobin]

 

[tomandrobin]

Looks like all my WSJ units just became 148,100 SO units.

I just gained an additional 151,200 more SO in 2015 to use.

 

[rog2867]

I was unable to post the chart, thanks for doing that. How many units do you have? We have a two bedroom loft so the extra options are great as we have week 3 it says float but you never can exchange your week. I hope this might make it a little easier.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Tom you beat me to it... {wrong... I just saw yours was for BV} - here is VGV

 

[tomandrobin]

I was unable to post the chart, thanks for doing that. How many units do you have? We have a two bedroom loft so the extra options are great as we have week 3 it says float but you never can exchange your week. I hope this might make it a little easier.

Three EOY 2-bedroom units at WSJ. Two of them are lofts and the third unit is regular ultra 2-bedroom week. All three units are platinum weeks (summer).

 

[DavidnRobin]

So... over the last few years my VGV 2Bd TH (Gold+) has gone from 67.1K to 81K to 95.7K SOs - not sure what I would do with 14.7K extra SOs as I plan my vacations 1 year in advance - and woul duse in HI. I guess it opens me to more HRA usage.

I am sure the WSJ-VGV 'Coalition' will somehow find this to be a negative... {sarcasm alert}

 

[GregT]

I think Starwood is trying to entice the WSJ owner to not stay at WSJ, but to travel to other properties in the system.

Marriott did this by giving more points value to the Maui Ocean Club when they rolled out DClub, in the hopes that MOC owners would redeem for points and use them elsewhere in the system (my opinion).

From a SVN user's perspective (which I am), I think this is terrific. I'd be happy to pay more SO's if it increases my chances of actually getting the reservation. Banking certainly was introduced at a good time to facilitate this (and I'm sure that's not coincidental).

Interesting stuff....

Best,

Greg

 

[lizap]

Very likely with the recent announcement of VGV SO increase..

I am just hoping that with the building of the new studios, SVO will increase their Staroptions value. Considering that St. John is one of the most desired Caribbean islands AND the WSJ is a nearly impossible exchange, I would think their "value" would increase. And hopefully this would also prompt the 1 Bedrooms value in Staroptions to be increased also. I understand this happened when the 2 BR Bay Vista units were built. Therefore the 2 BR Hillside owners units also increased in Staroptions

 

[LisaRex]

Looks like all my WSJ units just became 148,100 SO units.

I just gained an additional 151,200 more SO in 2015 to use.

Woot!!!!!!!

 

[LisaRex]

So... over the last few years my VGV 2Bd TH (Gold+) has gone from 67.1K to 81K to 95.7K SOs - not sure what I would do with 14.7K extra SOs as I plan my vacations 1 year in advance - and would use in HI. I guess it opens me to more HRA usage.

Add an extra day! Remember that you can reserve periods of 7 days OR LONGER at 8 months out.