[Closed - new thread started] Will Hawaii Open by [OCTOBER???] [Please use this thread for all Hawaii Coronavirus discussions]

[csodjd]

Here we go... back to the economic necessity of reopening. We all know these arguments. Give it a rest.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Last I checked, I didn't have to get your approval to make a comment. If you have nothing to say, perhaps consider saying nothing.

It begs the question, at what point does a Governor say, this appears to be the best it's going to be, so we either find a way to open up or decide to never open up? Newest research suggests that that antibodies aren't lasting (my sister's are now gone), raising doubts about whether a lasting vaccine can be developed.

Covid-19 immunity from antibodies may last only months, UK study suggests | CNN

After people are infected with the novel coronavirus, their natural immunity to the virus could decline within months, a new pre-print paper suggests.

www.cnn.com

At some point it ceases to be a health "emergency," and becomes just the way it is. Perhaps Hawaii (and others) may have to consider a different approach. If the cases can't be lowered to a level the health care system can handle, then maybe the health care system is going to have to be enlarged to handle the cases. It's not just a Hawaii issue, of course. Today the CA governor closed again all indoor restaurants, gyms, wineries, hear salons, etc. Understandable. But the same questions remain. Can we ever get to a point that those are safe -- 2019 safe -- again? If not, we either find a way to deal, or we eliminate indoor dining and hair salons forever.

 

[slip]

Of course he can. I just think it’s superfluous. It’s been mentioned countless times already. What’s the point? We all know it.


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That’s all these threads are, people repeating themselves.

 

[Luanne]

That’s all these threads are, people repeating themselves.

At this point I don't remember what I've posted where. I don't even remember which site, let alone which thread. So I know I'm repeating myself.

 

[Ken555]

That’s all these threads are, people repeating themselves.

For myself, the posts I find valuable are those with current information. Long-term analysis discussions are no longer of interest to me...I was very interested in those in March and April and maybe May, but now not so much. Perhaps that will change next month.

 

[csodjd]

For myself, the posts I find valuable are those with current information. Long-term analysis discussions are no longer of interest to me...I was very interested in those in March and April and maybe May, but now not so much. Perhaps that will change next month.

Certainly understandable and your right. So, stop reading. Nobody makes you read it, and certainly nobody makes you respond to it. Perhaps there is somebody that's reading it for the first time. Odd as it may seem, some posts aren't written to or for you. You have the choice and power to not read discussions that are no longer of interest to you.

That said, the facts today are not the same as they were 2 months ago. The situation is not the same. The ISSUE is not the same. The context is different. Today we have increasing cases, we have a CHANGE in plans after announced opening, we have the expected requirements to travel to Hawaii, we have new treatments and new information on possible immunity (or lack thereof). It's an evolving situation. The considerations in March/April are different in July/August.

 

[Ken555]

That said, the facts today are not the same as they were 2 months ago. The situation is not the same. The ISSUE is not the same. The context is different. Today we have increasing cases, we have a CHANGE in plans after announced opening, we have the expected requirements to travel to Hawaii, we have new treatments and new information on possible immunity (or lack thereof). It's an evolving situation. The considerations in March/April are different in July/August.

Yet your responses are the same. Focus on the economy. Why is that?

 

[Tamaradarann]

Last I checked, I didn't have to get your approval to make a comment. If you have nothing to say, perhaps consider saying nothing.

It begs the question, at what point does a Governor say, this appears to be the best it's going to be, so we either find a way to open up or decide to never open up? Newest research suggests that that antibodies aren't lasting (my sister's are now gone), raising doubts about whether a lasting vaccine can be developed.

Covid-19 immunity from antibodies may last only months, UK study suggests | CNN

After people are infected with the novel coronavirus, their natural immunity to the virus could decline within months, a new pre-print paper suggests.

www.cnn.com

At some point it ceases to be a health "emergency," and becomes just the way it is. Perhaps Hawaii (and others) may have to consider a different approach. If the cases can't be lowered to a level the health care system can handle, then maybe the health care system is going to have to be enlarged to handle the cases. It's not just a Hawaii issue, of course. Today the CA governor closed again all indoor restaurants, gyms, wineries, hear salons, etc. Understandable. But the same questions remain. Can we ever get to a point that those are save -- 2019 safe -- again? If not, we either find a way to deal, or we eliminate indoor dining and hair salons forever.

I'm not a big hair salon person so if they never opened it wouldn't matter to me. As far as restauants, in Hawaii, where the weather is pretty nice all year round, I can see eliminating indoor dining and getting by. However, in the colder climates and in the unbearably hot places like Las Vegas outdoor dining won't bring customers much of the year. Take out brings in some money but drinks are the big money maker in most restaurants, so take out really doesn't cut it financially for the long haul.

 

[controller1]

With the high unemployment rate in Hawaii, I feel extremely sorry for those who will lose that $600/week additional unemployment payment beginning August 1 with no known date on the horizon on when they will be able to work again. Of course, that also goes for locales other than just Hawaii.

 

[luv_maui]

With the high unemployment rate in Hawaii, I feel extremely sorry for those who will lose that $600/week additional unemployment payment beginning August 1 with no known date on the horizon on when they will be able to work again. Of course, that also goes for locales other than just Hawaii.

My understanding is that the exact language is that the extra $600/week stops the week prior to the week ending 7/31/2020 so the last extra $600, unless congress extends, will be 7/24 or 7/25/2020. Many will be surprised it’s NOT in the end of July paycheck.

Extra $600 in pandemic unemployment aid may end a week early for some

CARES Act directs money to run through July 31. But the fine print says some states will cut it off a week earlier.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[jabberwocky]

Yet your responses are the same. Focus on the economy. Why is that?

Because not everyone is lucky enough to be retired with a reliable pension check coming in every month. Some still have to work for a living. I’m fortunate enough to be able to work from home largely - but I know a number of families that are worried about putting food on the table or losing their jobs once government stimulus ends.

 

[Ken555]

Because not everyone is lucky enough to be retired with a reliable pension check coming in every month. Some still have to work for a living. I’m fortunate enough to be able to work from home largely - but I know a number of families that are worried about putting food on the table or losing their jobs once government stimulus ends.

I have that concern. I'm not retired. My business has been impacted in a huge way by this mess. I have no idea how it's going to turn out. But I don't think that's the root reason for the earlier post. Anyway, moving on.

 

[csodjd]

I'm not a big hair salon person so if they never opened it wouldn't matter to me. As far as restauants, in Hawaii, where the weather is pretty nice all year round, I can see eliminating indoor dining and getting by. However, in the colder climates and in the unbearably hot places like Las Vegas outdoor dining won't bring customers much of the year. Take out brings in some money but drinks are the big money maker in most restaurants, so take out really doesn't cut it financially for the long haul.

However, even in Hawaii, which is about as nice as America gets, there are times and/or places where you're glad to be indoors. Whether it's high up visiting the volcano on the Big Island, or during a storm. And consider the space requirements if ALL the indoor dining is forever to be outdoors. That leaves a lot of square feet being paid for that collects dust, and a need to rent a lot of outdoor space.

 

[csodjd]

Yet your responses are the same. Focus on the economy. Why is that?

If the economy and financial impact were no issue at all, it would all be pretty simple. Everyone shut down every business until the virus is eradicated. No film production. No sports. No retail sales. No restaurants or bars. No Home Depot. No malls. No clothing stores. Just essentials like grocery stores and hospitals. Total home confinement. Easy.

It is the economic impact on the Country and the individual that creates the TOUGH decisions, the hard choices, the compromises. If you open your eyes you may observe that the entire country is consumed with debate, battle, disagreement, division, political and apolitical, over the correct balance between protecting health and protecting the economy.

However, you'll not find one post of mine, anywhere, ever, in any forum, that says it's all about or just about the money, the money comes first, etc. My view is that health must be protected first and foremost, and the economy allowed to operate as much as possible within those confines, not the other way around. So my focus is not "on the economy," it is on how much business can be done while ensuring that health is being protected fully. The goal is maximum protection of health, with smallest possible economic impact.

However, like stock options, there is a time value. If the virus cannot be eradicated, if a vaccine is not on the horizon, if there is no light at the end of that tunnel, a time does come, like it or not, when we have to make the necessary changes to allow life to continue. I have a daughter almost 19, and another 29. They'd really like to go on a date again in their lives, and maybe hang out with friends. So, eventually we're going to need to go to Home Depot and buy clothes. So we may need to figure out how to do it safely. Not risk free, but with minimum risk. That includes vacationing, going to church, dating, and doing the things that PEOPLE DO. Otherwise the virus wins, and humans lose.

 

[easyrider]

Hawaii is not reopened until Sept 1. They don't like the surge on the mainland. I bet Sept 1 isn't happening either.

Bill

Ige delays plan to reopen tourism until Sept. 1 amid COVID-19 surge on the mainland

“This was not an easy decision to make. It really was a choice between two difficult options."

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

 

[Tamaradarann]

If the economy and financial impact were no issue at all, it would all be pretty simple. Everyone shut down every business until the virus is eradicated. No film production. No sports. No retail sales. No restaurants or bars. No Home Depot. No malls. No clothing stores. Just essentials like grocery stores and hospitals. Total home confinement. Easy.

It is the economic impact on the Country and the individual that creates the TOUGH decisions, the hard choices, the compromises. If you open your eyes you may observe that the entire country is consumed with debate, battle, disagreement, division, political and apolitical, over the correct balance between protecting health and protecting the economy.

However, you'll not find one post of mine, anywhere, ever, in any forum, that says it's all about or just about the money, the money comes first, etc. My view is that health must be protected first and foremost, and the economy allowed to operate as much as possible within those confines, not the other way around. So my focus is not "on the economy," it is on how much business can be done while ensuring that health is being protected fully. The goal is maximum protection of health, with smallest possible economic impact.

However, like stock options, there is a time value. If the virus cannot be eradicated, if a vaccine is not on the horizon, if there is no light at the end of that tunnel, a time does come, like it or not, when we have to make the necessary changes to allow life to continue. I have a daughter almost 19, and another 29. They'd really like to go on a date again in their lives, and maybe hang out with friends. So, eventually we're going to need to go to Home Depot and buy clothes. So we may need to figure out how to do it safely. Not risk free, but with minimum risk. That includes vacationing, going to church, dating, and doing the things that PEOPLE DO. Otherwise the virus wins, and humans lose.

I agree with you here and the post of my thoughts about hair salons and indoor dining in Hawaii were aligned with your sentiment. Your response to that post correctly pointed out that sometimes, even in Hawaii, you want to dine indoors; but not being able to go to a restauant on the top of the volcano or during a storm would not be the end of the world so restricting that would be an example of a compromise). The point of my post was that while in Hawaii you could feasibly make make that hard choice to restrict restaurant dining to outdoors only, that would not be feasible in the majority of the country due to the inclement weather.

Your point about the space indoors that is being paid for collecting dust brings to light the issue of all indoor commercial and office space that is excess and may not be needed since people are working and shopping from home. I am intentionally NOT investing in REITs that own that type of space right now since I believe that the ownership of that type of space is an endangered endeavor in the future.

 

[Fredm]

This the first realistic Hawaii related travel news I have seen.

Waikiki's Halekulani Hotel announces closure until mid-2021.

Although it cites repairs they will make while closed, a longer reading makes clear the projected ongoing lack of business is the real reason.
I know this is a hotel and not a timeshare, but it does not bode well for the "rubber meets the road" tourist outlook. It just rings true.

I fondly remember the famed old Halekulani. I was among the last guests to occupy the bungalows spread out on the beach.
The only thing that was saved from the bulldozer was the House Without a Key dining room.
The closing show featured Don Ho, who then commenced to insult us all with how we came and ruined the place. Some laughed at his smiling, but not me.
I remember to this day the thin veneer that covers some native Hawaiian's disdain (not undeserved) for mainlanders.

 

[nerodog]

Hawaii delays reopening tourism until Sept. 1

Travelers must be patient before visiting paradise.

www.foxnews.com

 

[csodjd]

This the first realistic Hawaii related travel news I have seen.

Waikiki's Halekulani Hotel announces closure until mid-2021.

Although it cites repairs they will make while closed, a longer reading makes clear the projected ongoing lack of business is the real reason.
I know this is a hotel and not a timeshare, but it does not bode well for the "rubber meets the road" tourist outlook. It just rings true.

I fondly remember the famed old Halekulani. I was among the last guests to occupy the bungalows spread out on the beach.
The only thing that was saved from the bulldozer was the House Without a Key dining room.
The closing show featured Don Ho, who then commenced to insult us all with how we came and ruined the place. Some laughed at his smiling, but not me.
I remember to this day the thin veneer that covers some native Hawaiian's disdain (not undeserved) for mainlanders.

I believe Ochids restaurant is there - one of our favorite dining spots. I was disappointed to read about the closure. Hope it reopens.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Maui ain’t happening easily anytime soon.

Just cancelled our 1Bd OFD WKORV for Sept19-26
and a 1Bd WKORV (SOs) for Sept26-Oct3.
With our cancellation of 2-weeks at WSJ in June, this leaves 340K SOs to bank by Oct (a 3* benefit I thought I’d ever use), and use in 2021-22 along with our existing usage in those years. Yikes!
Ouch!



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[csodjd]

We're still holding onto hope for our Oct 26 - Nov 9 in Oahu and Maui, but I told my wife if we don't know 30 days before, we'll have to cancel.

 

[yeereid]

I'm seriously considering moving our Nov 5 trip to April 2021.

 

[MommaBear]

I think the title of this thread should be amended to change August to September.

 

[PigsDad]

I think the title of this thread should be amended to change August to September.

I wouldn't take that bet...

Kurt

 

[Tamaradarann]

I'm seriously considering moving our Nov 5 trip to April 2021.

I had reservations for September that I already moved to November, now I think I will cancel those completely and let the points be moved to 2021. In 2021 I have reservations for Janauary which I probably won't be using and will eventually move to later in 2021. I believe that for us the 2020/2021 Fall,winter,spring seasons will be a travelling zero. We will start to forcus on summer, fall 2021.

 

[csodjd]

I wouldn't take that bet...

Kurt

I wouldn’t bet... but I predict that Hawaii doesn’t extend beyond the Sept. 1 date. For one thing, it was probably not an easy decision for them to make to extend from Aug 1. Doubt they want to deal with that conflict again. Second, hopefully (optimistically) I think the “wave” now occurring will subside over the next four weeks if for no other reason than closing down some of the hot spots of transmission (bars, etc) and hopefully a renewal of mask use, especially in younger people. Recognizing the 14 or so day lag to see the change, I think by the end of July we’ll see new cases dropping.

That said, it also would not surprise me if Hawaii decides they need to get a bit selective and follow the lead of other states by restricting access and not allowing those whose trip originates in areas where infection rates are at 10% or more. Since everyone comes by air, that’s a relatively easy tool for them to use and gets away from the all-or-nothing of their current proposal. There’s quite a different risk today between a traveler from New York vs. one from Florida, and it would be quite easy for them to recognize that and allow for it.