You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

[emeryjre]

This thread has run far afield of EV lies

 

[Brett]

And:

“Now let’s analyze what the oil & gas sector pays in taxes. In 2012 the top two corporations paying federal taxes in the US were ExxonMobil and Chevron paying a combined total of $45.2 billion. On average, the industry pays a 45% tax rate when all state, federal, and foreign taxes are totaled up. By comparison the Healthcare Industry pays a total rate of 35% and the Pharmaceuticals pay an estimated rate of 21%. Based upon these numbers it’s hard to believe which business sector is criticized the most for “subsidies”.”

FORBES

LOL ....

maybe I spent way .. way too many years in corporate accounting ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_subsidies#:~:text=11 External links-,Definition,in a much larger total.
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/big-oils-misbegotten-tax-gusher/

 

[dagger1]

LOL ....

maybe I spent way .. way too many years in corporate accounting ....


View attachment 99456

View attachment 99457

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_subsidies#:~:text=11 External links-,Definition,in a much larger total.
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/big-oils-misbegotten-tax-gusher/

Didn’t read the Forbes article. Going with Wikipedia for some reason….
Yes, I guess you did.

 

[Brett]

Didn’t read the Forbes article. Going with Wikipedia for some reason….
Yes, I guess you did.

LOL
They buy oil from (and own!) the "independents" !!

https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2023/08/24/fossil-fuel-subsidies-surged-to-record-7-trillion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_subsidies

 

[dagger1]

LOL
They buy oil from (and own!) the "independents" !!


View attachment 99458
https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2023/08/24/fossil-fuel-subsidies-surged-to-record-7-trillion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_subsidies

Wow…. Still didn’t read the article….. And still posting the phony $7T subsidy number. Once again:

 

[Brett]

Wow…. Still didn’t read the article….. And still posting the phony $7T subsidy number. Once again:

Wow - read the article ......... and wikipedia !

https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2023/08/24/fossil-fuel-subsidies-surged-to-record-7-trillion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_subsidies#:~:text=11 External links-,Definition,in a much larger total.

 

[TUGBrian]

30 pages, anyone changed their minds yet?

 

[davidvel]

30 pages, anyone changed their minds yet?

Nope I still think the same people are . . .

 

[easyrider]

30 pages, anyone changed their minds yet?

I'm not sure that's the point of the thread. I think that this thread is interesting enough, has enough side trackery and drama , that it could go on for another 30 pages, lol.

Bill

 

[TolmiePeak]

30 pages, anyone changed their minds yet?

I wonder if anyone could get through all 30 pages during an owners update. Brian you should issue a challenge and give anyone who reads all 30 pages of nonsense here a free 1 years subscription.

 

[TolmiePeak]

I'm not sure that's the point of the thread. I think that this thread is interesting enough, has enough side trackery and drama , that it could go on for another 30 pages, lol.

Bill

Some people, myself included, just love to argue for argument sake.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

30 pages, anyone changed their minds yet?

But I never mind. . .

 

[PigsDad]

The thread is about " you're being lied to about electric cars". To me this means lies told in support of ev's so I think the claim of fud, considering the topic, is unwarranted. What does " you're being lied to about electric cars" you ?

This is the exact opposite of what this thread was originally about (go back and read the first post -- I started this mess... ).

Kurt

 

[easyrider]

This is the exact opposite of what this thread was originally about (go back and read the first post -- I started this mess... ).

Kurt

I did. This was part of my first post on this thread. I'm sticking with it. "Until technology makes these gains and implements them, ice has all of the advantages over ev's including the issues in the article you posted. It's going to happen sooner than any of us think but longer than some of wish, imo."

Bill

 

[emeryjre]

MSN

www.msn.com

The story under the MSN banner talks about the ICE cars being made in China and sold in the United States

Also talks about the CEO of Ford taking a drive in a Chinese Made EV

 

[HitchHiker71]

Sigh. You viewpoint is using a car for a daily commuter vehicle. To me, that is a unwanted straightjacket. As a Texan, I am used to "going yonder" when and if I feel like it. (and yonder can be a far ways away, indeed. As a travel oriented site, getting the "wild hare" and boogieing should not be an alien concept.). With an ICE, this is no problem, there are a wide variety of refueling stations, everywhere; and almost always with no waiting (and less than 5 minutes to fuel). Despite the growth of charging station, I have no confidence I can do that without lots of extra time and effort, in advance (where is the charging station? I've never been to that area, where's the map? Is there a line? Do the chargers work there? Ect.)

I am not an urbanite, both by culture and preference.

This is where real world experience comes into play. Anyone who has actually driven a Tesla already knows that there’s no need to know where the charging station is, do they work, is there a line, etc., because a SDV tells you all of this in advance, plans the route from beginning to end. It’s literally point and click are you are done.

That said, I take your point that in remote areas it’s likely that BEVs are not as practical.

We have gone as far as 600 miles one way in our BEV and spent no more time in transit than in our ICE pickup truck that can theoretically go that entire distance without any refill. Nine hours each way is the best time in either vehicle to date.


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[HitchHiker71]

I doubt that real world experience matters regarding Tesla's because even though a Tesla is a nice car, it's still only a car. A car that depreciates quickly. The sedan market is about dead because no one really wants them. Making an expensive EV sedan doesn't really change the sentiment. It's still a sedan.

Like I said earlier, if your happy with it I'm happy for you. What others like regarding vehicles is their choice.

The thread is about " you're being lied to about electric cars". To me this means lies told in support of ev's so I think the claim of fud, considering the topic, is unwarranted. What does " you're being lied to about electric cars" you ?

Bill

Last I checked the Tesla MY was the best selling CUV in the world in 2023 - and trending for the same in 2024. It’s not a sedan, and neither are the MX or the Cybertruck - which is already the best selling vehicle over $100k for the past three months. The data doesn’t support your conclusions is what I’m saying.

Regarding battery life - which is another FUD topic often discussed:

https://insideevs.com/news/733987/ev-batteries-outlast-vehicle-degradation-study/

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[HitchHiker71]

30 pages, anyone changed their minds yet?

Four people so far have DM’d me about possible Tesla BEV purchases for themselves and/or family members with questions. Two of the four followed through on either used or new Tesla purchases to date. IDK if I’d state that anyone changed their minds, but some people are listening and keeping open minds and once they actually drive the BEVs and experience them firsthand, they sell themselves really - at least Tesla vehicles given they are true SDVs.


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[ScoopKona]

Four people so far have DM’d me about possible Tesla BEV purchases for themselves and/or family members with questions.

It always depresses me that people feel they have to ask privately rather than be subjected to the conspiracy woo-woo brigade.

 

[easyrider]

Last I checked the Tesla MY was the best selling CUV in the world in 2023 - and trending for the same in 2024. It’s not a sedan, and neither are the MX or the Cybertruck - which is already the best selling vehicle over $100k for the past three months. The data doesn’t support your conclusions is what I’m saying.

Regarding battery life - which is another FUD topic often discussed:

https://insideevs.com/news/733987/ev-batteries-outlast-vehicle-degradation-study/

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The Tesla model y is considered a luxury suv or cuv depending on features. To me it is a hatchback and hasn't the true features of an suv but maybe it could be a cuv.

This is a true luxury SUV.

Do you see the difference ?

Bill

 

[HitchHiker71]

The Tesla model y is considered a luxury suv or cuv depending on features. To me it is a hatchback and hasn't the true features of an suv but maybe it could be a cuv.

View attachment 99513

This is a true luxury SUV.

View attachment 99514

Do you see the difference ?

Bill

You are comparing apples and oranges. The MY is a CUV - the MX is a SUV (real three row seating). The MY is not a luxury anything really (I should know, since I own one). It's a mass market computer on wheels (hence it's a SDV). Can your ICE vehicle literally drive itself for 590 out of 600 miles on a road trip? Mine can and did when road tripping from our home to Myrtle Beach earlier this year, both ways. Last year, our MY couldn't do that, but thanks to OTA software updates using the SDV model, this year it could. Talk to me when your luxury ICE big SUV can do that, i.e. actually get better over time with 100% OTA software updates that are constantly making the vehicle more useful.

Also, that's a Yukon Denali XL Ultimate - that's a $100k truck new. The MY LR is $48k new (not including the $7500 POS instant tax rebate). Literally less than 1/2 the price of the large SUV you chose to share. Even the MX LR with the seven seat configuration is "only" $83.5k new in comparison - yet still quite a bit smaller than a large SUV gas guzzler. You are comparing two entirely differente vehicles at drastically different price points, i.e. apples and oranges, so I'm not sure what point you're really trying to make.

 

[easyrider]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The MY is a CUV - the MX is a SUV (real three row seating). The MY is not a luxury anything really (I should know, since I own one). It's a mass market computer on wheels (hence it's a SDV). Can your ICE vehicle literally drive itself for 590 out of 600 miles on a road trip? Mine can and did when road tripping from our home to Myrtle Beach earlier this year, both ways. Last year, our MY couldn't do that, but thanks to OTA software updates using the SDV model, this year it could. Talk to me when your luxury ICE big SUV can do that, i.e. actually get better over time with 100% OTA software updates that are constantly making the vehicle more useful.

Also, that's a Yukon Denali XL Ultimate - that's a $100k truck new. The MY LR is $48k new (not including the $7500 POS instant tax rebate). Literally less than 1/2 the price of the large SUV you chose to share. Even the MX LR with the seven seat configuration is "only" $83.5k new in comparison - yet still quite a bit smaller than a large SUV gas guzzler. You are comparing two entirely differente vehicles at drastically different price points, i.e. apples and oranges, so I'm not sure what point you're really trying to make.

I'm not the one that considers a Tesla a luxury suv or cuv. The info is from Tesla. To me, a better comparison of your self driving Tesla might be a Subaru hatchback. They are in the same price range and about the same size even though the Tesla weighs far more with less ground clearance.

To me, there is no such thing as a mini-suv. SUV's should be built on a truck frame.

Bill

 

[dagger1]

Wow - read the article ......... and wikipedia !


View attachment 99460

View attachment 99461

https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2023/08/24/fossil-fuel-subsidies-surged-to-record-7-trillion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_subsidies#:~:text=11 External links-,Definition,in a much larger total.

Aaah. That explains your confusion. And still posting the obviously false $7T subsidies to oil/gas/coal companies.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

30 pages, anyone changed their minds yet?

Hi Brian,

I have partially changed my mind and have acquired a bunch of valuable info from this thread. We have 2 ICE vehicles, both of which are relatively new. We use both mostly for around town but typically take four vacations a year that encompass driving 350 to 500 miles - - a bit of a stretch for BEVs.

But I'd probably be okay with a hybrid. And as battery technology, range and safety improves, maybe I'll switch over to either a hybrid or EV. As my wife and I get older, we'll be moving into a CCRC (old folks home) so maybe we'll be traveling less or not as far. But, at that point I won't be able to charge at lower home rates. But I live in California and even home rates are fairly expensive (like $ 0.30 to $ 0.35 per KWh. So, maybe in 5 years the technology will have continued to improve and the number of charging stations increased.

 

[Ken555]

It always depresses me that people feel they have to ask privately rather than be subjected to the conspiracy woo-woo brigade.

You’re making erroneous assumptions again, and reaching incorrect conclusions. I was one of those people, as I helped a family member buy a Tesla and sent private messages to HitchHiker since the questions were tangential and not directly on point of this thread. And I’ve already posted in this thread my favorable opinion of EVs, so I’m definitely not hiding.

Apology accepted, Captain Coffee.