Wyndham Privileges: new Wyndham VIP Levels starting late 2020 [Merged]

[HitchHiker71]

Ok, I am going to call it a good night! But before I do, let me make a few things clear.
I have the highest regard for @HitchHiker71 and his level-headed thinking.
I love @Jan M.'s posts and look forward to them.
I like @Braindead's take-no-prisoners blunt talk. He knows the system.
I like @Grammarhero and his upright attitude, He's a real-life Don Quixote or Zorro depending on your hero preference.
I like @dgalati while I disagree with his schemes. He means well and he has his perspective and he should be allowed to have it.
@Richelle talks seldom but when she does, she knows what she's talking about.
@paxsarah is brief and to the point and hits the nail on the head.
In my sojourn here, believe me, I know a lot about who's who.
I like so many others here and I am disturbed by a few, no big deal.
But we're all in it together. Can't we all get along? As St. Rodney famously pleaded.
Discuss 'WHAT's said' and not 'WHO said it'. That will make us a perfect Bobsled Team winning the Gold Medal in Olympics.

I will join in the Kumbaya moment and say a HUGE "thank you" to everyone for their contributions. We can at times agree to disagree and that's perfectly acceptable. This forum is a microcosm to me of our macro societal environment - which appears to be very divided at present - especially within the political spectrum. The fact that we can remain civil here, is to be commended.

 

[CO skier]

I cannot find any verbiage that exists for resale points with respect to VIP in the current members directory.

The current guidelines still make a distinction between developer purchases and resale purchases for VIP eligibility. It is inconsistent that the distinction was not and is not enforced, and that the distinction is footnoted for some benefits and not others; but hey, it’s Wyndham. The website programming may never catch-up to the rules.


From page 241 of the Directory

Eligibility Requirements

• Only CLUB WYNDHAM Plus points associated with ownership interests purchased directly through Wyndham Vacation Resorts or its affiliates, ownership interests acquired by will or intestate succession, ownership interests acquired by “Immediate Relative” of members, or through PIC enrollments count toward VIP status. “Immediate Relative” currently includes parents, spouses, domestic partners, siblings, children and grandchildren.
• Purchases of ownership interests made from private individuals or resale companies will not count toward the total points required for VIP eligibility.

From page 242 of the Directory (footnote to Platinum VIP Guest Confirmations)

4 Eligible points are points associated with ownership interests purchased directly through Wyndham Vacation Resorts or its affiliates, Bonus Points and PIC Points (see Eligibility Requirements above).

 

[HitchHiker71]

The current guidelines still make a distinction between developer purchases and resale purchases for VIP eligibility. It is inconsistent that the distinction was not and is not enforced, and that the distinction is footnoted for some benefits and not others; but hey, it’s Wyndham. The website programming may never catch-up to the rules.


From page 241 of the Directory

Eligibility Requirements

• Only CLUB WYNDHAM Plus points associated with ownership interests purchased directly through Wyndham Vacation Resorts or its affiliates, ownership interests acquired by will or intestate succession, ownership interests acquired by “Immediate Relative” of members, or through PIC enrollments count toward VIP status. “Immediate Relative” currently includes parents, spouses, domestic partners, siblings, children and grandchildren.
• Purchases of ownership interests made from private individuals or resale companies will not count toward the total points required for VIP eligibility.

From page 242 of the Directory (footnote to Platinum VIP Guest Confirmations)

4 Eligible points are points associated with ownership interests purchased directly through Wyndham Vacation Resorts or its affiliates, Bonus Points and PIC Points (see Eligibility Requirements above).

Agreed, however the verbiage that some here are hanging their hats on with respect to resale points not being eligible for VIP benefits has in fact been removed. VIP eligibility verbiage is still there, but VIP benefits for resale points is not.

 

[CO skier]

Agreed, however the verbiage that some here are hanging their hats on with respect to resale points not being eligible for VIP benefits has in fact been removed.

Lots of guesses as to why this might be. Maybe Wyndham did not want to advertise the resale market anymore than they have to.

Why have a VIP program if resale points are "as good as VIP" under some conditions? That seems to be the intent of the Eligibility Requirements. The intent is, for some reason, not implemented. As many point out, that may or may not change in the future. Until or unless something changes in this regard, it is all just idle guesswork.

 

[Eric B]

The way I read the statement is that retail points count towards what status you have as an owner while resale points do not. Once you have that status, it doesn’t really matter where the points came from. That’s also how it’s implemented. Could change in the future, of course, but that’s how it works now.

If they were to change it, presumably they would also have to stop charging the extra 2 cents for the program fee for resale points, i.e., the differential for Plus Partners, which they do charge for mixed accounts.

 

[Braindead]

Agreed, however the verbiage that some here are hanging their hats on with respect to resale points not being eligible for VIP benefits has in fact been removed. VIP eligibility verbiage is still there, but VIP benefits for resale points is not.

I just can’t get over that none of us noticed this before.
You made me get the directory out & read it again, wow it’s not there. I would’ve swore it was the same verbiage as the prior directory.

Now in essence some are advocating VIPs with resale points lose yet another benefit.

 

[CO skier]

Now in essence some are advocating VIPs with resale points lose yet another benefit.

“There you go again.”

VIPs thought cancel/rebook of any reservation for a VIP 25%, 35%, 50% discount was a “benefit”; it was not, because it was not written in any Directory.

Piggybacking resale points for VIP benefits is not written in any Directory (quite the opposite is), so it is not a VIP “benefit.” It is something Wyndham allows, for now. If it ever goes away, it is not a "lost benefit.”

 

[ecwinch]

The way I read the statement is that retail points count towards what status you have as an owner while resale points do not. Once you have that status, it doesn’t really matter where the points came from. That’s also how it’s implemented. Could change in the future, of course, but that’s how it works now.

If they were to change it, presumably they would also have to stop charging the extra 2 cents for the program fee for resale points, i.e., the differential for Plus Partners, which they do charge for mixed accounts.

That is a the balanced perspective.... that it is the "account" that achieves VIP status, and then the account is entitled to the VIP Benefits - without regard to the nature of the points that are in the account.

 

[SNA27]

Scheme? I believe that term is incorrect. I use my ownership to maximize the $/1000. To be clear I break no rules in owner directory nor do I skirt a rule Wyndham is not enforcing. Ovations is good for Wyndham and any owner that uses it can use current use year points according to Wyndham rules. No rule against trading of deeds also - Wyndham does it every day like I stated in past posts they bought 4 of my deeds last year after I used current use year points. Wyndham was happy to pay me 3.50/1000 for something they could sell for 200/1000. I was happy to cover my sunk cost and use all current use year points. I consider it a Win for both parties.

Ron Parise was completely transparent and made full disclosure to his buyers. His buyers were willing to buy FUTURE contracts while paying current MF. It all balances out.
Did you make such full disclosure to Ovations? If you had made full disclosure and they were still willing buyers, then I guess there's no issue. But the difference is an individual buyer has skin in the game and makes rational decisions based on self-interest, but an Ovation employee has no skin in the game and is simply following some directives from the bureaucrats up above. You could argue that it's a distinction without a difference and that it's on Wyndham. If Wyndham is a willing buyer with the benefit of full disclosure, I am out of credible arguments. Moral posturing is not an argument in the real world governed by amoral rules. Keep doing what you're doing until it comes to its inevitable end.

 

[SNA27]

VIPs are not on a level playing field. The entire purpose of the VIP program is to grant greater amounts of benefits based upon a tiered system - which by definition means the playing field is not level - it is tiered. I'm VIPP - I in fact have better benefits than someone who is VIPG or VIPS. That's the reality. I'm sorry, but I disagree with your assessment. There are not rules agreed to by all parties within the member directory, as the directory clearly indicates: VIP Program benefits are subject to change or elimination without notice. Wyndham alone can change or eliminate the entire program - and members have zero say in their decision - again not a level playing field. The only thing "all parties have agreed to" here is that Wyndham has complete discretionary control over the playing field. Go look at the other programs listed in the member directory - they all have similar verbiage. Subject to change.

The real "rules" that everyone has agreed to are not in the members directory, they are in the signed contractual documents. The legal trust documents and the contracts based upon the trust documents that we have all signed contain the real rules for the playing field, not the members directory. The members directory outlines various programs that Wyndham manages - most of which are subject to change and/or termination at any time.

Having progressed from Silver to Gold to Platinum and recently to the promised land of the Founders, I am well aware of the VIP levels. I was alluding to a level playing field between VIP Retail only and VIP with resale and the latter's 'ill-gotten' benefits as per the directive that the resale points do not qualify for VIP benefits. Perhaps, it's moot since you have discovered that Wyndham omitted that verbiage in the latest directory.

As for the rules: when I signed up with Wyndham, I gave them a carte blanche to make rules and agreed to abide them. So, I implicitly gave consent to and agreed to abide by any rule they make as long as they don't contravene local, state and federal laws.
It's no different from vesting the power to legislate in the representative you elect. It scarcely matters whether you agree with the laws they enact but you're bound to abide by them.

 

[CO skier]

That is a the balanced perspective.... that it is the "account" that achieves VIP status, and then the account is entitled to the VIP Benefits - without regard to the nature of the points that are in the account.

That is not the way it works in WorldMark ...

...just sayin'.

 

[Eric B]

That is not the way it works in WorldMark ...

...just sayin'.

The differences between the two systems are part of the reason why I recently agreed to acquire a small WorldMark contract. This way I’ll have a different set of rules to work with that provides for different methods and abilities to use resale contracts that I believe will be beneficial in my circumstances. I did my research to learn how they work first this time and recognize they don’t work the same; if they did, I don’t think I would have done that, but more likely would have added some resale points to my Wyndham VIPG account. It is most definitely not an apples to apples comparison between the two.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Scheme? I believe that term is incorrect. I use my ownership to maximize the $/1000. To be clear I break no rules in owner directory nor do I skirt a rule Wyndham is not enforcing. Ovations is good for Wyndham and any owner that ......

Scheme -
Perhaps the term was written to imply the British version of usage .
I believe in UK / British English the term “scheme “ basically means program or plan ,
sometimes as an offering by businesses to potential customers.
(ie) “Wyndham’s newest scheme will be called Privileges “

The UK tabloids are probably writing that Megxit is a scheme .
but if I understand the UK word usage correctly that is not a perjorative term .
The tabloids will use other terms for the trash talking .

 

[dgalati]

VIPs thought cancel/rebook of any reservation for a VIP 25%, 35%, 50% discount was a “benefit”; it was not, because it was not written in any Directory.

Piggybacking resale points for VIP benefits is not written in any Directory (quite the opposite is), so it is not a VIP “benefit.” It is something Wyndham allows, for now. If it ever goes away, it is not a "lost benefit.”

After all the many posts I have come to the conclusion It can be justified depending on what side of the fence you are standing. I think my question has been answered that it is not a defined benefit in owners directory and Wyndham is turning a blind eye to it as they did with cancel and rebook. Thanks to @Richelle for the insight that Wyndham has it on their radar and this (((loophole))) will not be changed at any time soon. Many owners have a better understanding of this thanks for everyone's input. @Richelle or @HitchHiker71 someone asked in a post from last week of page 345 "was it inadvertently omitted by error or was it done intentionally". We all know Wyndham can change the rules at any time until then learn the system enjoy the special times vacationing with family and make it work $/1000 for your situation.

 

[dgalati]

Scheme -
Perhaps the term was written to imply the British version of usage .
I believe in UK / British English the term “scheme “ basically means program or plan .

If it a scheme then to "plan" a vacation then I am guilty of this. LOL

 

[CCdad]

After all the many posts I have come to the conclusion It can be justified depending on what side of the fence you are standing. I think my question has been answered that it is not a defined benefit in owners directory and Wyndham is turning a blind eye to it as they did with cancel and rebook. Thanks to @Richelle for the insight that Wyndham has it on their radar and this (((loophole))) will not be changed at any time soon. Many owners have a better understanding of this thanks for everyone's input. @Richelle or @HitchHiker71 someone asked in a post from last week of page 345 "was it inadvertently omitted by error or was it done intentionally". We all know Wyndham can change the rules at any time until then learn the system enjoy the special times vacationing with family and make it work $/1000 for your situation.

@Eric B made a great point that both VIP and Plus Partners (PP) are set up today as an account level attribute.

The potential annual lost program fee revenue if eligible PP account owners relinquished that attribute is significant, even at just .02 per 1K points.

At some Wyndham locations, a single building can generate 2Bn in annual billable points (BC, Grand Desert, Canterbury, Hawaii resorts, beach locations). It wouldn’t surprise me if there were in excess of 200Bn annual billable points system wide, excluding both PIC & bonus points. At .62 / .64 / .70 program fee per 1K (depending on your account attributes), that’s a lot of money to support the call center staff, Owner Care, IT improvements, etc.

Unfortunately many owners are either unaware of or use the PP benefits, or understand that they can relinquish PP to reduce their program fees.


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[Rolltydr]

@Eric B made a great point that both VIP and Plus Partners (PP) are set up today as an account level attribute.
...
Unfortunately many owners are either unaware of or use the PP benefits, or understand that they can relinquish PP to reduce their program fees.


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I am apparently one of the unfortunate owners who is unaware of this. Can you enlighten me, please? I don’t really use PP so how would I get out of that program?

 

[paxsarah]

Unfortunately many owners are either unaware of or use the PP benefits, or understand that they can relinquish PP to reduce their program fees.

This seems like a silly way to save a tiny amount of money. While at Wyndham’s level 2 cents per 1,000 can add up if you’re looking at at an entire resort, on the individual level it’s insignificant. On a million point account, that difference in program fee is $20 per year. Even as someone who only owns resale and has been perfectly happy without the Plus Partners benefits, if I already had it I’d happily pay $20/year to keep that program (although I’d only pay around $6 on my much smaller account).

 

[Eric B]

This seems like a silly way to save a tiny amount of money. While at Wyndham’s level 2 cents per 1,000 can add up if you’re looking at at an entire resort, on the individual level it’s insignificant. On a million point account, that difference in program fee is $20 per year. Even as someone who only owns resale and has been perfectly happy without the Plus Partners benefits, if I already had it I’d happily pay $20/year to keep that program (although I’d only pay around $6 on my much smaller account).

That’s the tragedy of the commons, taking just a small amount from everyone....

 

[Richelle]

This seems like a silly way to save a tiny amount of money. While at Wyndham’s level 2 cents per 1,000 can add up if you’re looking at at an entire resort, on the individual level it’s insignificant. On a million point account, that difference in program fee is $20 per year. Even as someone who only owns resale and has been perfectly happy without the Plus Partners benefits, if I already had it I’d happily pay $20/year to keep that program (although I’d only pay around $6 on my much smaller account).

The one and only benefit I might actually use with Plus Partners is RCI nightly stays. I have not used it yet, but it’s there if I want it. I’m happy to pay that small fee too.

 

[CCdad]

This seems like a silly way to save a tiny amount of money. While at Wyndham’s level 2 cents per 1,000 can add up if you’re looking at at an entire resort, on the individual level it’s insignificant. On a million point account, that difference in program fee is $20 per year. Even as someone who only owns resale and has been perfectly happy without the Plus Partners benefits, if I already had it I’d happily pay $20/year to keep that program (although I’d only pay around $6 on my much smaller account).

Whether it’s $2 - $20 per account, when it’s upwards of 300k -500k eligible accounts that’s nothing to sneeze at. Heck if they’d put a fraction of that money into fixing the many Voyager flaws or educating the VCs that’s a good start. It’s a million or more in the aggregate.

And let’s consider the $299 that Title & Deeding collects per deed transfer. For 10k deed transfers and retail purchases per year, it would bring in $2.99 Mn a year. More than enough to hire more lawyers and many others that perform that function, albeit very slow for resale deed transfers.


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[CCdad]

I am apparently one of the unfortunate owners who is unaware of this. Can you enlighten me, please? I don’t really use PP so how would I get out of that program?

I don’t think that it’s handled by either Title and Deeding or Financial Services.

I’d start with a call to a VC, then request they connect you to Owner Care for help.

I do have PP and occasionally use it for nightly stays, maybe once every other year.



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[HitchHiker71]

After all the many posts I have come to the conclusion It can be justified depending on what side of the fence you are standing. I think my question has been answered that it is not a defined benefit in owners directory and Wyndham is turning a blind eye to it as they did with cancel and rebook. Thanks to @Richelle for the insight that Wyndham has it on their radar and this (((loophole))) will not be changed at any time soon. Many owners have a better understanding of this thanks for everyone's input. @Richelle or @HitchHiker71 someone asked in a post from last week of page 345 "was it inadvertently omitted by error or was it done intentionally". We all know Wyndham can change the rules at any time until then learn the system enjoy the special times vacationing with family and make it work $/1000 for your situation.

Agree 100% it is not a stated benefit and therefore it is simply an unnamed “perk” that can be negated at any point in time by Wyndham for VIPs.

I’m in the camp that large corporations like Wyndham do not do anything by accident or via unintentional omission. Too many people have to review the content. I therefore feel it was intentionally omitted from the current directory - so as not to technically be in violation of their own stated program rules outlined in the member directory.


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[Jan M.]

Agree 100% it is not a stated benefit and therefore it is simply an unnamed “perk” that can be negated at any point in time by Wyndham for VIPs.

I’m in the camp that large corporations like Wyndham do not do anything by accident or via unintentional omission. Too many people have to review the content. I therefore feel it was intentionally omitted from the current directory - so as not to technically be in violation of their own stated program rules outlined in the member directory.


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I hadn't thought of it being intentionally omitted for that reason. It is more likely that you are correct than I was in saying it was simply an oversight.

 

[ecwinch]

That is not the way it works in WorldMark ...

...just sayin'.

“Just saying a non-sequitur” is what you might have posted. Especially given how the VIP benefits primarily under discussion here (VIP discount/unit upgrade) do not even exist in the Worldmark system.

And for the benefits that are common with the Worldmark VIP, they are similar. There might be one exception, but as they say... exceptio probat regulam in casibus non exceptis