Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[paxsarah]

Ok, apparently this is for a "voluntary contribution" to ARDA-ROC (American Resort Development Association - Resort Owners' Coalition), not an actual payment to/for Wyndham. I guess that means it won't interfere with my soon-to-end ownership, right?

Correct. It looks like you don’t have autopay set up for it (good!) so it will just sit there indefinitely taking up space, in my experience.

 

[Aicken]

Interwebs???

 

[TUGBrian]

Ok, apparently this is for a "voluntary contribution" to ARDA-ROC (American Resort Development Association - Resort Owners' Coalition), not an actual payment to/for Wyndham. I guess that means it won't interfere with my soon-to-end ownership, right?

its wild how that voluntary donation appears to be mandatory time after time!

 

[shawnee83]

I predict that the shopping center across from the check-in and activities building on Buttermilk will most likely close up.

I think the Thai restaurant will keep going, but that pizza place will definitely take a hit. Keep in mind, occupancy at Shawnee Village is not what it used to be and hasn't been for some time now.

 

[Rolltydr]

Interwebs???

 

[seascapemvy]

I just called the front desk at Shawnee and they are still open and checking in guests.

 

[Floridaman76]

RE: Shawnee, most of the resort is closed though right? My understanding is they were only keeping the 2 sections open which have not voted yet, or did I misunderstand that?

Kind of like Edisto, there they were only closing Sea Oaks and Sea Palms, my understanding is that at Shawnee they were closing everything but 2 sections and those go POOF in March

 

[shawnee83]

That is for Shawnee, where the resort is not closing until march.

Two of the HOAs are still open, but I just checked a couple websites where we have purchased extra weeks in the past, and there is ZERO availability at any location, including Ridge Top and Fairway. So it looks like only owners can use any weeks they've already booked.

 

[donno]

My sister has two contracts (her only ones with Wyndham) at Fairfield Bay and the program fee (not the mf) for those points was deducted from her bank account for Jan on the 1st.

 

[CO skier]

Sure, but one would think that this property would be more attractive to a prospective buyer (IE: maximize profit at sale) if it was a contiguous block of properties, not a handful of holdouts potentially messing up their plans.

I think it's short sighted. I'm sure you will find a way to criticize my take.

Of course. Think about it for even just a minute. What will a week be worth when/if/eventually the property sells -- $500? certainly not $1,000. You think any whole owner would take $25,000 - 50,000 for their condo now or ever? Of course not. You think Wyndham would pay even that much? Of course not.

 

[schreff]

There is no hard boiled truth. There is much disagreement about corporate decisions and their result. I doubt there is an impending catastrophe in the supply and demand for reservations. Maybe a ripple but no catastrophe. Most likely, the reduction in units available (supply) will correspond to the reduction in owners (demand). Clearly, some resorts will be more affected than others.

The principal actors in these actions are the HOAs. There can be no legal actions against the HOAs while the resort is in Chapter 11. One of the features of Chapter 11 is that legal actions are stayed.

Official offer? How can there be an official offer when it is not known when or if the resort will be sold, sale price (if any), and expenses incurred until closing?

Unquestionably, there are a number of owners or former owner who are unhappy about the proceedings. It is impossible to please everyone.

You use the words most likely for which I disagree. My statement about the hard boiled truth relates to the a horrendous corporate Wyndham decision which you first attribute to a Wyndham corporate decision but immediately afterward state it was a HOA decision. Sorry you can't have it both ways.

Concerning supply and demand, if the news were good on the lost supply versus an even or less demand surely Wyndham would have released the projected figures. Why haven't Wyndham owners been told how many units were lost after the closures? Also, the definition of a ripple verses a wave is unknown until after the fact. Seeing the errors Wyndham has already made I would prefer wave especially considering all the cancellations during the summer which now have to be filled.

The principal actors are the HOAs yes but the writer of the big picture script is Wyndham who controls the HOAs and BODs.It isn't just a coincidence that 14 resorts are using the same legal and real estate groups to effectuate their plans? Wyndham controls all the HOA BODs and is the manager of all or most of the resorts. You must know I am not talking about actions against the HOA. I am talking about Wyndham possible conflicts and fiduciary responsibilities of the BODs.

You are also incorrect about the offer I refer to. The offer I refer to is for the conversion of points in lieu of waiting for the sale price and the crumbs left after all the bankruptcy costs are deducted.

The strips of the Wyndham zebra are black and those who try to say they are white depend on the definition of what IS a stripe? Is the Zebra's stripe black or white? .

 

[Aicken]

I assume the process will follow the prescribed legal process. We are all unhappy that the resorts failed in the marketplace but the HOA’s have voted consistent with the bylaws we all signed on to when we purchased properties. Hopefully the disengagement process unfolds quickly and with much more communications than we all have seen so far from Wyndham.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Correct. It looks like you don’t have autopay set up for it (good!) so it will just sit there indefinitely taking up space, in my experience.

I just have to say kudos to you, and anyone else, that is able to make sense of that Paymentus system. I do my best to do nothing in there (and even so ended up with mess (on their part) a year or so ago that has since been cleared up.

 

[chapjim]

You use the words most likely for which I disagree. My statement about the hard boiled truth relates to the a horrendous corporate Wyndham decision which you first attribute to a Wyndham corporate decision but immediately afterward state it was a HOA decision. Sorry you can't have it both ways.

Concerning supply and demand, if the news were good on the lost supply versus an even or less demand surely Wyndham would have released the projected figures. Why haven't Wyndham owners been told how many units were lost after the closures? Also, the definition of a ripple verses a wave is unknown until after the fact. Seeing the errors Wyndham has already made I would prefer wave especially considering all the cancellations during the summer which now have to be filled.

The principal actors are the HOAs yes but the writer of the big picture script is Wyndham who controls the HOAs and BODs.It isn't just a coincidence that 14 resorts are using the same legal and real estate groups to effectuate their plans? Wyndham controls all the HOA BODs and is the manager of all or most of the resorts. You must know I am not talking about actions against the HOA. I am talking about Wyndham possible conflicts and fiduciary responsibilities of the BODs.

You are also incorrect about the offer I refer to. The offer I refer to is for the conversion of points in lieu of waiting for the sale price and the crumbs left after all the bankruptcy costs are deducted.

The strips of the Wyndham zebra are black and those who try to say they are white depend of the definition of what IS a strip and is it black or white.

You made a prediction -- catastrophe. I made a prediction -- ripple. Clearly, we won't know which is closer to reality until things happen. We agree on this.

Legally, the HOAs are the actors. They are the entities that filed Chapter 11. True it is that Wyndham has controlling votes on the HOAs, all of them so far as we know. No dispute there. Who's driving the bus? Wyndham corporate, as a majority owner on the HOAs. Hilco and K&L Gates have been retained by the HOAs, undoubtedly at Wyndham corporate's direction in its role as majority owners on the HOAs. Since the fourteen resorts have common situations, I think that makes more sense than engaging fourteen different real estate firms and fourteen different legal firms.

Official offer: So far as I know, official offers have been made but with some exceptions. Swap to CWA or hold on and take your share of the residuals, if any. I don't know why I would have thought that was the official offer you say hasn't been made.

Zebras? Be serious!

 

[Jan M.]

The oldest Directory I have is from 2013-2014. Oh, how I wish I'd kept a copy of every Directory over the 23 years we've owned! In the old, old Directories, did they show the number of units at the resorts? Not that those figures would be accurate now. It's just bugging me trying to remember.

Has anyone figured out how many units there are at each of the 10 resorts and sections at the other 4 resorts? If someone wanted to take the time to call each resort they could get that info. Another way to get that information would be to start a thread asking owners at the resorts being dropped to look at their resort or association budget reports and post the number of units.

 

[nibble4bits]

Of course. Think about it for even just a minute. What will a week be worth when/if/eventually the property sells -- $500? certainly not $1,000. You think any whole owner would take $25,000 - 50,000 for their condo now or ever? Of course not. You think Wyndham would pay even that much? Of course not.

That's a very optimistic figure too. Everyone involved is going to have priorities to be paid first before the actual owners... from the skeleton crews, the lawyers and courts, realty agents, utility companies minimum billings, title companies...

 

[Arimaas]

I didn't go all the way through with it, but I was able to get up to the "reserve" page on Expedia for Skyline Tower in march It only gave me a non refundable reservation for like $80 a night, so I obviously wasn't going to do it, but interesting that third party sites are still taking reservations.

 

[Arimaas]

I didn't go all the way through with it, but I was able to get up to the "reserve" page on Expedia for Skyline Tower in march It only gave me a non refundable reservation for like $80 a night, so I obviously wasn't going to do it, but interesting that third party sites are still taking reservations.

Seems like we missed this news article?

Philly ABC affiliate picking it up is kinda of a big deal. Bigger than some local Pocono paper. Although the piece doesn't say much.

More than 100 workers at Atlantic City resort bracing for layoffs as business prepares to shut down

The Club Wyndham Skyline Tower is set to close at the end of the year, because its owners voted to cease operations and sell the property.

6abc.com

 

[shawnee83]

Has anyone figured out how many units there are at each of the 10 resorts and sections at the other 4 resorts?

The bankruptcy presentations include some info on this. The real estate company (Hillco?) included a detailed breakdown in the presentation I attended for our Shawnee HOA. That's a long way from tallying all the units at all the resorts, but it is one source of data.

 

[Double U]

The oldest Directory I have is from 2013-2014. Oh, how I wish I'd kept a copy of every Directory over the 23 years we've owned! In the old, old Directories, did they show the number of units at the resorts? Not that those figures would be accurate now. It's just bugging me trying to remember.

Has anyone figured out how many units there are at each of the 10 resorts and sections at the other 4 resorts? If someone wanted to take the time to call each resort they could get that info. Another way to get that information would be to start a thread asking owners at the resorts being dropped to look at their resort or association budget reports and post the number of units.

I'd have to look, but I don't remember they gave the number of units, but they did list the year it was built. Just going off memory.

There may have been a chart on the old atozed board?

 

[Double U]

A few resorts are closing. There will still be 60-70 resorts available, a few in the same vicinities as those that are closing. So, the pissed owners can still have their points, if they so choose, and have plenty of locations to choose from by swapping to CWA. Or, they can give up their contracts and vacation some other way. It’s completely their choice.

Thank you for your forthright opinion. Personally, I found it misleading and incomplete. Choice????

There are no swaps as promised. That's what I'm reading all over the place. And confusion between the bankruptcy papers, scams, and swaps feeds into the Wyndham way of daze and confusion. No one, even Wyndham seems to know what is going on. This is what we pay them for. To manage details for us.

I personally felt it represents disingenuous dissemination of information. How can someone make a choice when they are having to wait until February (as is being reported) to even speak to someone about what is going on. And what kind of lump sum are they going to owe when it finally gets resolved and those fees are deducted to get the account current? When does the term gross mismanagement become warranted?

Look at me. You are correct I have a choice. Apples to apples, CWA is 19.76% higher for me. Add to that the 6.78% (not sure exactly percent) increase this year to CWA and you are correct. You are absolutely correct, that I do in fact have a choice. Swap and continue on seamlessly, you will just pay us 26.5% more. Can I ask you an honest question. Am I wrong to consider terms like extortion or at the least, exploitation? I'm being sincere and welcome your response. Thanks.

 

[CO skier]

Seems like we missed this news article?

Philly ABC affiliate picking it up is kinda of a big deal. Bigger than some local Pocono paper. Although the piece doesn't say much.

You posted about this last October. The article then provided more details.

Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

...most of the units are 50 years old now, and they really weren’t built to last. While they have been updating the exteriors and some interiors over the past few years, you can still feel the floorboards in the older units flexing way more than they should, you can feel divots in the floors...

tugbbs.com

https://archive.is/UcIAK

 

[comicbookman]

Thank you for your forthright opinion. Personally, I found it misleading and incomplete. Choice????

There are no swaps as promised. That's what I'm reading all over the place. And confusion between the bankruptcy papers, scams, and swaps feeds into the Wyndham way of daze and confusion. No one, even Wyndham seems to know what is going on. This is what we pay them for. To manage details for us.

I personally felt it represents disingenuous dissemination of information. How can someone make a choice when they are having to wait until February (as is being reported) to even speak to someone about what is going on. And what kind of lump sum are they going to owe when it finally gets resolved and those fees are deducted to get the account current? When does the term gross mismanagement become warranted?

Look at me. You are correct I have a choice. Apples to apples, CWA is 19.76% higher for me. Add to that the 6.78% (not sure exactly percent) increase this year to CWA and you are correct. You are absolutely correct, that I do in fact have a choice. Swap and continue on seamlessly, you will just pay us 26.5% more. Can I ask you an honest question. Am I wrong to consider terms like extortion or at the least, exploitation? I'm being sincere and welcome your response. Thanks.

Yes, you are wrong to consider those terms incompetence is more appropriate. The swap offer is not something Wyndham is required to do. It is advantages to Wyndham and to some owners. ( For me it will result in lower maintenance fees), but obviously not for you and many others. That being said, I believe the early communication issues were dictated by legal concerns, but since the HOA votes, Wyndham has done a miserable job of communication and execution. ( Not really a surprise, although we all hoped for better). Resorts close, that has always been a reality of the industry. It never seems to go smoothly.

 

[paxsarah]

Yes, you are wrong to consider those terms incompetence is more appropriate. The swap offer is not something Wyndham is required to do. It is advantages to Wyndham and to some owners. ( For me it will result in lower maintenance fees), but obviously not for you and many others. That being said, I believe the early communication issues were dictated by legal concerns, but since the HOA votes, Wyndham has done a miserable job of communication and execution. ( Not really a surprise, although we all hoped for better). Resorts close, that has always been a reality of the industry. It never seems to go smoothly.

I wonder (only half jokingly) whether there are folks at Wyndham who wish they'd stuck with just the one contractually required option for owners at these resorts - that they lose their points when the resort ends its operation as a timeshare and they get whatever percentage of the sale proceeds they're entitled to, period - given the negative reaction of many owners to the CWA swap. I've seen it here and on Facebook. Don't take it, then. I think it's fair that Wyndham is offering one alternate option, and that option is a CWA swap. I think it's unreasonable to expect a bespoke option for each owner, like a deeded contract somewhere with comparable fees to what is being given up. Is it disappointing for some? Yes. Do we have to make "least bad" decisions sometimes in life? Yes. (And on a personal level, it's one more validation of why I've only sunk resale money into this thing, because sinking real $$ into it will only result in unmet expectations and a smaller bank account.)

I also think that Wyndham's execution and communication have been bad and are getting worse. It's kind of chaos out there, based on what I see on Facebook. Rumors, misconceptions, and conspiracy theories still abound. Phone staff are only equipped to help with very narrow aspects of the swap and aren't much help with any question wider than that. Owners are being told that they'll get next steps about the swap process sometime in February. Owners who aren't planning to take the swap still have 2026 points in their accounts. Owners are receiving bankruptcy form 410 for creditors with no instructions on how to determine if they're a creditor. (And if that form is safe to ignore for most owners, how are they to know moving forward what mailings are safe to ignore and what paperwork is essential to moving the process forward?)

I wonder if Wyndham had started this process 6-12 months earlier than they did with the same goal date of 12/31/2026, they might have been able to see it through smoothly - but we'll never know. It would still have required a level of communication that I'm not sure Wyndham can pull off.

 

[Double U]

I wonder (only half jokingly) whether there are folks at Wyndham who wish they'd stuck with just the one contractually required option for owners at these resorts - that they lose their points when the resort ends its operation as a timeshare and they get whatever percentage of the sale proceeds they're entitled to, period - given the negative reaction of many owners to the CWA swap. I've seen it here and on Facebook. Don't take it, then. I think it's fair that Wyndham is offering one alternate option, and that option is a CWA swap. I think it's unreasonable to expect a bespoke option for each owner, like a deeded contract somewhere with comparable fees to what is being given up. Is it disappointing for some? Yes. Do we have to make "least bad" decisions sometimes in life? Yes. (And on a personal level, it's one more validation of why I've only sunk resale money into this thing, because sinking real $$ into it will only result in unmet expectations and a smaller bank account.)

I also think that Wyndham's execution and communication have been bad and are getting worse. It's kind of chaos out there, based on what I see on Facebook. Rumors, misconceptions, and conspiracy theories still abound. Phone staff are only equipped to help with very narrow aspects of the swap and aren't much help with any question wider than that. Owners are being told that they'll get next steps about the swap process sometime in February. Owners who aren't planning to take the swap still have 2026 points in their accounts. Owners are receiving bankruptcy form 410 for creditors with no instructions on how to determine if they're a creditor. (And if that form is safe to ignore for most owners, how are they to know moving forward what mailings are safe to ignore and what paperwork is essential to moving the process forward?)

I wonder if Wyndham had started this process 6-12 months earlier than they did with the same goal date of 12/31/2026, they might have been able to see it through smoothly - but we'll never know. It would still have required a level of communication that I'm not sure Wyndham can pull off.

Other than contractual obligations, it is correct, they don't need to offer anything. But isn't that why we deal with a large corporation like Wyndham instead of other options? We pay more for it. To protect us and handle all the details for us?

No, they don't have to offer a swap. But actually they have no choice. It would be a losing battle for them to remove contracts that were sold to get people to a certain VIP level. People have documentation of the upsells, and would have no problem proving the reason to upsell. Taking that away could be an uphill battle, and just the Public Relations issues alone may be an unacceptable risk. So it's true they don't have to offer anything, but it is more from the pocketbook than from the heart. Don't be fooled they are doing this out of kindness, they're doing it because they have no choice. IMO. Thanks for your comments. Awesome!