WorldMark - Wyndham Club Pass

[slabeaume]

I just checked the Wyndham site and this is all it says when I click on the Seaside resort,

"This Resort is Moving to WYNDHAM Club PassSM!
The WorldMark® resort you selected was formerly an associate property, and is now moving to WYNDHAM Club Pass, Wyndham Vacation Resorts and WorldMark by Wyndham's new internal exchange program.

WYNDHAM Club Pass is a simple way to give our CLUB WYNDHAM® owners the freedom to move outside of the Club, expanding your access to unique destinations found across the country!

More information will be shared in coming months — stay tuned!"

 

[lcml11]

Here's an update with some info from the minutes of the September 23, 2013 WorldMark Board of Directors meeting. The minutes finally showed up on the WorldMark web site today, 4 1/2 months after the meeting.

"Wyndham Club Pass will allow all WorldMark owners who purchased prior to November 5, 2006, or who purchased from the developer on or alter November 5, 2006, to use their Vacation Credits to book reservations at other Wyndham resorts beginning nine months before check-in.

Wyndham Club Pass will nearly double the number of resorts that WorldMark owners will be able to reserve using their Vacation Credits. There will be a $99 transaction fee to book reservations through Wyndham Club Pass. Reservation bookings are expected to begin mid-summer, 2014."

Based on that excerpt those WorldMark owners with accounts purchased before Travelshare (like our account) who were grandfathered in to with access to the Wyndham resorts under the TEN agreement will be grandfathered in to Wyndham Club pass. If the availability under Wyndham Club Pass is similar to what it was up until now for WorldMark owners to access the Wyndham resorts, I wouldn't count on being able to book much with the new system.

What is the TEN agreement and is it continuing?

Found part of the answer:

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/education/pdfs/Exchange_Plus_Application.pdf

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/education/pdfs/TEN_Agreement.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hqdjxe3uyyovixx/vLCVOfSJCS/clubpass-1.pdf

The second link, this information is good at least as of November 1, 2013. Take note of the Wyndham Vacation Resorts locations that are listed (Exhibit F, eight resorts are on the list at this point) and the short discussion of Wyndham Club Pass. From this disclosure statement, it appears TEN is a continuing program.
______________________________________________________________________________
The below message appears for at least some of the locations that apparently had direct scheduling from WorldMark to Wyndham Club Plus Resorts: Wyndham Ocean Blvd., Wyndham Ocean Ridge, Wyndham Sea Gardens, Wyndham Plam-Aire, Wyndham Vacation Resorts Panama City Beach, Wyndham Nashville, Wyndham Smoky Mountain, Wyndham Resort at Fairfield Glade, Wyndham Kingsgate, Wyndham National Harbor, Wyndham Skyline Tower, Wyndham Bentley Brook, Wyndham La Cascada, Wyndham Durango, and Wyndham Pagosa.

This Resort is Moving to WYNDHAM Club PassSM

The CLUB WYNDHAM® resort you selected was formerly an affiliate property, and is now moving to WYNDHAM Club Pass, WorldMark by Wyndham and Wyndham Vacation Resort’s new internal exchange program.
WYNDHAM Club Pass is a simple way to give our WorldMark owners the freedom to move outside of the Club, expanding your access to unique destinations found across the country!
More information will be shared in coming months — stay tuned!

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/

h. Commercial Use of Accommodations Accommodations reserved through WYNDHAM Club Pass may not be used for commercial purposes, including, but not limited to, any illegal
activity or pattern of occupancy, rental, leasing, or use by a Member that WYNDHAM Club Pass, LLC, deems, in its sole discretion, could constitute a commercial use. Any reservations made by a Member deemed to be engaged in commercial use of Accommodations is subject to immediate cancellation and no Credits or Points utilized for such reservations shall be refunded to the Member. These restrictions do not apply to WYNDHAM Club Pass, LLC, or its affiliated entities.

It appears that Wyndham Affiliated Entities are free to rent at will.

The shift of former availability from both programs appears to be well under way.

 

[VacationDiva]

Is anyone else disappointed that only developer-purchased points will apparently be applicable to this program?

My immediate reaction is this will stick it to those of us who purchased after-market Wyndham or WorldMark contracts and make it even more difficult to book WorldMark properties (I am a Wyndham owner) and potentially the same situation for WorldMark owners who want to book Wyndham properties, but bought their contracts on the open market and not the developer.

In the current system, I have had some success in booking WorldMark properties- we had a marvelous week at Seaside, OR in October- so am wondering if this will make our membership less valuable as I fear it will restrict our access to these properties. Am I understanding/interpreting this correctly? I'd appreciate others' thoughts on this.

 

[lcml11]

... as I fear it will restrict our access to these properties. Am I understanding/interpreting this correctly? I'd appreciate others' thoughts on this.

There is a chance this could be what is emerging. If I understand the disclosures correctly, both clubs are providing inventory that belongs to the owners of the Club to Club Wyndham Pass. Re-Sale owners do not have access to Club Wyndham Pass. Therefore, they loss the ability to get the timeshare periods that go to the Pass System, leaving them to compete against each other, their Club's VIP programs, etc.

Once a timeshare period is in the Wyndham Club Pass system, it appears there are two primary methods of it going out. The first to owners of the other club. Second to authorized groups that are permitted to rent the inventory (apparently Wyndham Club Pass related groups of some sort).

If it goes to owners of the other club, then points in that club would then be given back to Club Wyndham pass to repeat the cycle. The big winners may well be the groups that can rent the inventory.

If those posters that believe that it will just be exchanges from one system owner to another, maybe they can expand on that rational.

 

[rhonda]

Is anyone else disappointed that only developer-purchased points will apparently be applicable to this program?

Yeah, sorta. As a WM owner, I was successful booking Wyndham Pagosa routinely. I fretted for a bit then threw a few dollars at the problem to create a bandaid. In my case, I joined WinPointVIP to provide access to booking Wyndham w/out the (prior) limited inventory restrictions and (future) $99 fee and source-of-points restriction.

I'm thinking going forward ... the best answer is to have points in both systems.

 

[ronparise]

There is a chance this could be what is emerging. If I understand the disclosures correctly, both clubs are providing inventory that belongs to the owners of the Club to Club Wyndham Pass. Re-Sale owners do not have access to Club Wyndham Pass. Therefore, they loss the ability to get the timeshare periods that go to the Pass System, leaving them to compete against each other, their Club's VIP programs, etc.

Once a timeshare period is in the Wyndham Club Pass system, it appears there are two primary methods of it going out. The first to owners of the other club. Second to authorized groups that are permitted to rent the inventory (apparently Wyndham Club Pass related groups of some sort).

If it goes to owners of the other club, then points in that club would then be given back to Club Wyndham pass to repeat the cycle. The big winners may well be the groups that can rent the inventory.

If those posters that believe that it will just be exchanges from one system owner to another, maybe they can expand on that rational.

At first blush it my seem that since some club Wyndham inventory is going to Worldmark owners that will leave less inventory available to us. But you have to remember that this is a two way street, for every Worldmark owner taking some club Wyndham inventory, there will be a Wyndham owner going over to the other club,,,we dont have to compete with him. So while it may be true that there is less inventory, there are also less Wyndham owners owners competing for that inventory

I guess what Im saying is: what difference does it make? 500000 wyndham owners competing for whats available at 9 months, or 499000 Wyndham owners and 1000 worldmark owners competing. Either way, 500000 owners and the same inventory

 

[ronparise]

Is anyone else disappointed that only developer-purchased points will apparently be applicable to this program?

My immediate reaction is this will stick it to those of us who purchased after-market Wyndham or WorldMark contracts and make it even more difficult to book WorldMark properties (I am a Wyndham owner) and potentially the same situation for WorldMark owners who want to book Wyndham properties, but bought their contracts on the open market and not the developer.

In the current system, I have had some success in booking WorldMark properties- we had a marvelous week at Seaside, OR in October- so am wondering if this will make our membership less valuable as I fear it will restrict our access to these properties. Am I understanding/interpreting this correctly? I'd appreciate others' thoughts on this.

I think you see it exactly right. resale owners have lost the ability to go after the 2 units made available to us in some of the Worldmark resorts.

There are other ways to get there though. You could find a Worldmark owner (resale) that feels the same way and do a direct exchange. You provide them with a, lets say, ...Washington DC vacation and they provide you with a Seaside vacation. Or visit Craigs list...there is a big business done in Seaside rentals.

 

[comicbookman]

Once a timeshare period is in the Wyndham Club Pass system, it appears there are two primary methods of it going out. The first to owners of the other club. Second to authorized groups that are permitted to rent the inventory (apparently Wyndham Club Pass related groups of some sort).

QUOTE]

do you deliberately misstate things or are you just careless? Inventory does not go "into" the club pass system, it is made available to club pass members In ADDITION to being available to the same people as before. No wyndham or worldmark owners lose the ability to reserve within their system, regardless of whether they own resale or developer. What resale only owners "lose" is the ability, as Ron said , to have a shot at the very limited number of units made available when the affected properties were considered affiliates. Affiliates have historically come and they have gone. So for the vast majority of owners, nothing has changed and for the developer point owners, we now have the option of spending $99 to reserve units in the other club. Not that different from what we have with RCI or II (although for now a little cheaper). You are doing the sales weasels job for them by spreading fear and implying that resale points are being crippled.

 

[lcml11]

Once a timeshare period is in the Wyndham Club Pass system, it appears there are two primary methods of it going out. The first to owners of the other club. Second to authorized groups that are permitted to rent the inventory (apparently Wyndham Club Pass related groups of some sort).

QUOTE]

do you deliberately misstate things or are you just careless? Inventory does not go "into" the club pass system, it is made available to club pass members In ADDITION to being available to the same people as before. No wyndham or worldmark owners lose the ability to reserve within their system, regardless of whether they own resale or developer. What resale only owners "lose" is the ability, as Ron said , to have a shot at the very limited number of units made available when the affected properties were considered affiliates. Affiliates have historically come and they have gone. So for the vast majority of owners, nothing has changed and for the developer point owners, we now have the option of spending $99 to reserve units in the other club. Not that different from what we have with RCI or II (although for now a little cheaper). You are doing the sales weasels job for them by spreading fear and implying that resale points are being crippled.

The number of units initially involved are shown in the disclosure statement for Club Wyndham Pass. Check out the third place link in the list of links above. Everyone to their own reading of the Wyndham Words of Wisdom. For what it is worth, I would take them at their word for the status as of the date of the disclosure.

In reading the disclosure for Club Wyndham Pass, if I read it right, reservations can be made only in the systems that you are not a member of. For example, since I am with Club Wyndham Plus I cannot get the Club Wyndham Plus reservations but I can get TEN ones. If I were WorldMark, I could not get the TEN ones but could get the Club Wyndham Pass ones.

Your reading of this does not appear to be the same as mine. Just a case in point, different people can read the same thing and come away with different meanings.

 

[cotraveller]

[deleted by cotraveller]

 

[lcml11]

[deleted by cotraveller]

In response to your now deleted comments, you may want to consult the links provided above. Of particular interest would be the resorts that WorldMark owners can get reservations at through the TEN system. I would like to observe that they are many many many resorts available through this system then just the WorldMark and Wyndham Club Plus systems.

I would also like to observe that you might want to also look at the disclosure for the Wyndham Club Pass system and take note that Wyndham's Words of Wisdom specifically address the criteria used in selecting which TEN resorts are being permitted to be a part of the Wyndham Club Pass System

Just a pop quiz to see who has read the disclosures: Which of the Wyndham Legal entities owns the name Wyndham Club Pass?

 

[VacationDiva]

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts, expertise, and wisdom. I love vacationing with Wyndham, but have a deep mistrust of the management and that goes double for the sales people. I really hope that this new program is an improvement for everyone, but at least a net neutral for us. My past experience makes me suspicious. We have been lied to so many times and their business practices are so opaque. We will be hyper-vigilant as this new program is implemented. And, I will be skeptical until proved otherwise. Fool me once, shame on Wyndham. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[lcml11]

The answer to the pop quiz is the Hotel Group.

 

[cotraveller]

In reading the disclosure for Club Wyndham Pass, if I read it right, reservations can be made only in the systems that you are not a member of. . . . If I were WorldMark, I could not get the TEN ones but could get the Club Wyndham Pass ones.

This is the statement I referred to as gibberish in the comments I deleted. I stand by that. From the WorldMark TEN agreement:

Affiliate Resorts: Timeshare programs or Resorts for which Accommodations have been submitted to TEN.

• Participating Affiliate Resorts are Resorts made available to Members

WYNDHAM Club Pass - an exchange program operated by VVYNDHAM Club Pass, LLC. Membership and access to available Accommodations in WYNDHAM Club Pass is included with TEN membership for TEN members

That says that as a member of TEN I am automatically a member of Wyndham Club Pass and I can book all of those resorts, not just one group of the other.

 

[lcml11]

This is the statement I referred to as gibberish in the comments I deleted. I stand by that. From the WorldMark TEN agreement:

Affiliate Resorts: Timeshare programs or Resorts for which Accommodations have been submitted to TEN.

• Participating Affiliate Resorts are Resorts made available to Members

WYNDHAM Club Pass - an exchange program operated by VVYNDHAM Club Pass, LLC. Membership and access to available Accommodations in WYNDHAM Club Pass is included with TEN membership for TEN members

That says that as a member of TEN I am automatically a member of Wyndham Club Pass and I can book all of those resorts, not just one group of the other.

Time will tell, in light of what had happened to WorldMark availability over the court suit with Wyndham, I am guessing the words in the Wyndham Club Pass System will prevail. The Wyndham Club Pass LLC is owned by Wyndham Vacation Ownership which also controls Club Wyndham Plus. The use of the name is by agreement between the LLC and the Hotel Group. Post lawsuit, I am not sure if Wyndham Vacation Ownership still controls WorkMark by Wyndham or not, but I believe they do. I have seen it said that Wyndham voted for the two independent elected Board seats that had something to do with the lawsuit.

 

[cotraveller]

Time will tell, in light of what had happened to WorldMark availability over the court suit with Wyndham, I am guessing the words in the Wyndham Club Pass System will prevail. The Wyndham Club Pass LLC is owned by Wyndham Vacation Ownership which also controls Club Wyndham Plus. The use of the name is by agreement between the LLC and the Hotel Group. Post lawsuit, I am not sure if Wyndham Vacation Ownership still controls WorkMark by Wyndham or not, but I believe they do. I have seen it said that Wyndham voted for the two independent elected Board seats that had something to do with the lawsuit.

You are digging your hole deeper and deeper. WorldMark, the Club is a nonprofit California corporation. WorldMark, the Club owns the WorldMark resorts free and clear. Wyndham is a different for-profit corporation and is the developer and manager for WorldMark. Legally they do not control WorldMark. They do control the WorldMark Board of Directors so in that sense they are in control.

I know WorldMark and how it works. I don't know Wyndham or how it works and for that reason I do not offer opinions on the Wyndham system. Perhaps you should follow that lead and restrict your posts to the systems you know, if any.

 

[comicbookman]

In reading the disclosure for Club Wyndham Pass, if I read it right, reservations can be made only in the systems that you are not a member of. For example, since I am with Club Wyndham Plus I cannot get the Club Wyndham Plus reservations but I can get TEN ones. If I were WorldMark, I could not get the TEN ones but could get the Club Wyndham Pass ones.

Your reading of this does not appear to be the same as mine. Just a case in point, different people can read the same thing and come away with different meanings.

Again you take quotes out of context and then make fear inducing pronouncements. Of course someone using club pass cannot use club pass to make reservations in their own system. Once again I have to ask, are you a poor reader or do you deliberately misstate things to confuse people?
from your comments above, I believe your misrepresentations in this and many other threads are deliberate. In my mind that makes you no better than the sales weasels.

 

[CO skier]

... Legally they [Wyndham Vacation Ownership] do not control WorldMark. They do control the WorldMark Board of Directors so in that sense they are in control.

In practice, there is no difference. Wyndham created the Wyndham Club Pass to distinguish developer sales from re-sales. The WorldMark Board just danced to the Wyndham tune in approving the program.

 

[benyu2010]

In practice, there is no difference. Wyndham created the Wyndham Club Pass to distinguish developer sales from re-sales. The WorldMark Board just danced to the Wyndham tune in approving the program.

It presents value-added benefits to majority of ownership base either through direct purchase or grandfathered-in...Should BoD have any reason to disapprove it?

 

[vacationhopeful]

Again you take quotes out of context and then make fear inducing pronouncements. Of course someone using club pass cannot use club pass to make reservations in their own system. Once again I have to ask, are you a poor reader or do you deliberately misstate things to confuse people?
from your comments above, I believe your misrepresentations in this and many other threads are deliberate. In my mind that makes you no better than the sales weasels.

So much truth in this quote of yours, comicbookman!. Thank you.

Wyndham is making money for Wyndham - the HOAs must raise HOA fees and those fees cover ONLY the costs to provide the management, staff, housekeeping, lights, amenities on a COST PLUS basis - approval reviewed and passed by the Board of Directors of each HOA. (let us not start any other discussion on who is on the HOA's boards).

The Reservation system is another matter. Those fees go directly to Wyndham and are NOT controlled by the owners with interests in the actual timeshare properties. Where do you think those $99 Guest Certificate Fees go? Or the Reservation Transaction fees? Housekeeping Fees MAY go to the individual resorts - but Wyndham might get a "collection fee" percentage. And don't forget, EVERYONE pays either 56 or 58 cent per 1K of points owned as either CWA or CWP owners --- IF you have access to the online reservation system, you PAY a corporate fee to use it. (and remember, that minimum fee was raised UP again).

Club Wyndham Pass is definitely PART of the reservation system - and WHAT was once a small fee generator will now have a $99 reservation fee on it. For EVERYONE - VIP or not, one time user or weekly user - will pay for something that was FREE (to the end user). As for limiting it to developer purchase points, it is a "ploy" to SELL more points to people WHO perceive some value. That is a personal decision for each owner - as is which hotel room to rent and its location.

Corporate Wyndham CAN NOT INCREASE its bottom line without either charging more to its captive membership or creating new sources of revenue.

In my humble opinion, YOU and each of YOU, have to determine what parts of the system YOU want to use and recognize YOU will most likely pay a FEE to use that "new & improved feature".

And personally, these fees with continue to increase and NEW fees will be invented. And the new fees will be SOLD or marketed as a NEW GREAT FEATURE TO IMPROVE THE VARIOUS OWNERS VACATION EXPERIENCE.

 

[CO skier]

It presents value-added benefits to majority of ownership base either through direct purchase or grandfathered-in...Should BoD have any reason to disapprove it?

Wyndham Club Pass is relatively benign for most WorldMark owners.

The point is that whether the WM BOD had any reason to approve or disapprove based on the impact to owners does not enter their thought process. The WM BOD is just a nominal figurehead. Wyndham determines the direction for WorldMark the Club when it comes to major decisions such as new programs (TravelShare, Wyndham Club Pass), fee increases, new resorts.

Wyndham is not listed as the owner on the deeds to the WorldMark properties, and Wyndham is officially only the manager and developer for WorldMark, but for all practical purposes Wyndham Vacation Ownership owns WorldMark the Club.

 

[lcml11]

You are digging your hole deeper and deeper. WorldMark, the Club is a nonprofit California corporation. WorldMark, the Club owns the WorldMark resorts free and clear. Wyndham is a different for-profit corporation and is the developer and manager for WorldMark. Legally they do not control WorldMark. They do control the WorldMark Board of Directors so in that sense they are in control.

I know WorldMark and how it works. I don't know Wyndham or how it works and for that reason I do not offer opinions on the Wyndham system. Perhaps you should follow that lead and restrict your posts to the systems you know, if any.

That would be five systems and my comments center around two of the five. If owners in Shell, Wyndham Club Plus, and WorldMark that are interested in following their own club or clubs, then they may very well might want to follow closely what was referred to as "One Company" in a recent owners update. Topics discussed at the update was the emerging changes pertaining to availability pools, Shell Properties, the increased use of the the term Communities, and a new community being referred to as 55 plus 8, and Wyndham Club Pass. The two programs that primarily were mentioned were the old Fairfield properties and the existing Wyndham Club Plus/Access program.

 

[scootr5]

they may very well might want to follow closely what was referred to as "One Company" in a recent owners update.

Of course, many people don't believe much of what's spoken in an "owners update"/sales presentation.....

 

[Rent_Share]

If you are lcml11/rrlongwell you take it as written in stone . . . .

Of course, many people don't believe much of what's spoken in an "owners update"/sales presentation.....

 

[comicbookman]

If you are lcml11/rrlongwell you take it as written in stone . . . .

And then you agree with yourself