Why Buy Points?

[vacationtime1]

I see a lot of TUG/expert hacks here about how to use points effectively -- five day reservations, twelve day reservations, off season reservations, electing points, renting points, etc. Here at TUG, we are quite good at taking advantage of wrinkles in the system. But these are wrinkles in the system -- most owners are unaware of them and don't use them.

For the typical new purchaser, these hacks are unknown. A retail purchaser pays $17+/point and $0.81 in MF's. If they own those points for ten years, their cost is an additional $1.70/point/year, making their total cost $2.51/point. Absurd. Even if they are educated enough to buy resale points @$6.50, their cost is $1.46/point ($0.65 for the amortized purchase price + the $0.81 MF). Still absurd.

The bottom line is that for most new purchasers -- I would estimate 90% -- owning points is a financial cesspool.

(Yes, I play the game also. I rent points, reserve a four day stay at Timber Lodge in a one bedroom unit Mon - Thurs, and have a ski in / ski out condo for about $220/night. But I know how to do this only because I spend far too much time here.)

 

[JIMinNC]

While many people are comfortable with Redweek person-to-person rentals, comparing them to a timeshare stay booked with your own points is not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. When you book with your owned week, with your owned Abound points, or with rented Abound points deposited into your own Abound account, YOU control your own reservation. With a Redweek rental the renting owner still controls the reservation, you are just their guest. If the renting owner makes a mistake in how they set you up as the guest, you might have an issue at check-in. Note I'm not just talking about fraud here, but also honest mistakes by an owner who is not a hospitality professional.

I always prefer to control my own reservations, even if it costs more. That's why I only compare MVC weeks or points bookings to rentals on Marriott.com -- when using cash for any travel, I always book direct with the provider, never through a broker or other middleman. Over the years, I've been in line quite a few times at hotels, rental car counters, etc. listening to someone in front of me dealing with an issue with a reservation booked through an intermediary. The desk clerk's answer is always, "We can't help you, you need to take that up with (name of middleman)." Booking through Redweek, I would worry about having that happen to me at check-in. Booking direct through MVC or with cash direct with Marriott International offers much greater peace of mind.

 

[Red elephant]

Redweek is certainly not cheaper for the vast majority of in demand reservations. Especially with all the additional fees they are forcing on people now since they have eliminated DIY rentals.

The discussion was about it being cheaper to rent from redweek than buying the points and making a reservation.

 

[Red elephant]

How do you think those Redweek listings get there? Someone made those reservations using weeks or points, typically paying less on MFs than what they're asking for those in-demand stays.

So if someone else wants to book those stays to actually use themselves via weeks/points, it is possible as long as they do the work to reserve as soon as it's available. And they'd pay less than what Redweek would cost them. Yes, weeks would be cheaper than points, but points can be cheaper than Redweek, at least on a MF basis. Purchase price is something else entirely.

As I just said the discussion I believe the OP was discussing is renting from redweek vs buying points to make the reservation yourself. It’s obvious how the listings were made.

 

[Red elephant]

While many people are comfortable with Redweek person-to-person rentals, comparing them to a timeshare stay booked with your own points is not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. When you book with your owned week, with your owned Abound points, or with rented Abound points deposited into your own Abound account, YOU control your own reservation. With a Redweek rental the renting owner still controls the reservation, you are just their guest. If the renting owner makes a mistake in how they set you up as the guest, you might have an issue at check-in. Note I'm not just talking about fraud here, but also honest mistakes by an owner who is not a hospitality professional.

I always prefer to control my own reservations, even if it costs more. That's why I only compare MVC weeks or points bookings to rentals on Marriott.com -- when using cash for any travel, I always book direct with the provider, never through a broker or other middleman. Over the years, I've been in line quite a few times at hotels, rental car counters, etc. listening to someone in front of me dealing with an issue with a reservation booked through an intermediary. The desk clerk's answer is always, "We can't help you, you need to take that up with (name of middleman)." Booking through Redweek, I would worry about having that happen to me at check-in. Booking direct through MVC or with cash direct with Marriott International offers much greater peace of mind.

I am on the same boat with you on this one. However buying now to do the same thing is just too expensive for most (not us here) which is what I believe the OP is trying to say.

 

[jp10558]

I am on the same boat with you on this one. However buying now to do the same thing is just too expensive for most (not us here) which is what I believe the OP is trying to say.

I think the other big difference is points / weeks don't make a lot of difference most of the time for some people (like me) who have very little reason to book 3 or 4 days somewhere. I'm almost always booking in week increments using points. I can mix and match any kind of booking this way reasonably easily as long as I'm not travelling too far between locations such that I can't get all the travel done in one day. Not saying I don't like points or anything, but that I can't personally see paying extra for them like in MVC.

 

[Red elephant]

I think the other big difference is points / weeks don't make a lot of difference most of the time for some people (like me) who have very little reason to book 3 or 4 days somewhere. I'm almost always booking in week increments using points. I can mix and match any kind of booking this way reasonably easily as long as I'm not travelling too far between locations such that I can't get all the travel done in one day. Not saying I don't like points or anything, but that I can't personally see paying extra for them like in MVC.

I am with you on that one. If I am leaving my house for vacation it’s going to be 7 or more nights.

 

[JIMinNC]

I am on the same boat with you on this one. However buying now to do the same thing is just too expensive for most (not us here) which is what I believe the OP is trying to say.

Perhaps it is. Since we now have all of the weeks/points we need to meet our travel needs, I really haven't done a full cost-benefit compare of ownership in general in about 5 years.

I do keep track of our maintenance fee costs and while they have risen faster in recent years, as someone who also books a lot of Marriott-branded hotels, I can say authoritatively that the costs of the best hotels have also risen far faster than the overall inflation rate over the same time period. Looking at our per night cost for our MVC points and weeks bookings, and comparing that to what we have paid in the last few years for some hotels in resort areas/cities without an MVC presence, my sense is that our personal economic case for ownership is still largely intact.

Having said that, our overall average upfront cost per Abound point (trust + enrolled) is only $6.24/point. All points were bought direct, but as part of a bundle or enrollment offer, so that quoted cost includes the cost of the enrolled weeks, plus the cost of the purchased trust points. Just looking at the direct trust points by themselves, our average cost is still only about $11.30/point. I'm pretty sure we would not pay the current price of $17/point for what we own.

 

[jp10558]

I do keep track of our maintenance fee costs and while they have risen faster in recent years, as someone who also books a lot of Marriott-branded hotels, I can say authoritatively that the costs of the best hotels have also risen far faster than the overall inflation rate over the same time period.

I think till very recently I would have agreed with you for ANY hotels. Now I've seen prices drop back down on the lower tiers.

Looking at our per night cost for our MVC points and weeks bookings, and comparing that to what we have paid in the last few years for some hotels in resort areas/cities without an MVC presence, my sense is that our personal economic case for ownership is still largely intact.

I would also bet this is true - even mid range hotels (Doubletree) in places like Long Beach CA on the water run $400+ a night per room.

Having said that, our overall average upfront cost per Abound point (trust + enrolled) is only $6.24/point. All points were bought direct, but as part of a bundle or enrollment offer, so that quoted cost includes the cost of the enrolled weeks, plus the cost of the purchased trust points. Just looking at the direct trust points by themselves, our average cost is still only about $11.30/point. I'm pretty sure we would not pay the current price of $17/point for what we own.

I'm sure this is true - I'm also guessing that people are comparing differently - look above in the thread - to redweek rental rates. I have my quibbles with comparing to Redweek listings too. However, if you're just starting out, I think MVC points lose to competitor systems for price/value in a lot of cases. Certainly not all, but MVC points need you to want the top end of the TS range and be willing to pay for it in resale. More than HGVC, Wyndham, Worldmark etc. IDK about retail though.

 

[davidvel]

While many people are comfortable with Redweek person-to-person rentals, comparing them to a timeshare stay booked with your own points is not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. When you book with your owned week, with your owned Abound points, or with rented Abound points deposited into your own Abound account, YOU control your own reservation. With a Redweek rental the renting owner still controls the reservation, you are just their guest. If the renting owner makes a mistake in how they set you up as the guest, you might have an issue at check-in. Note I'm not just talking about fraud here, but also honest mistakes by an owner who is not a hospitality professional.

I always prefer to control my own reservations, even if it costs more. That's why I only compare MVC weeks or points bookings to rentals on Marriott.com -- when using cash for any travel, I always book direct with the provider, never through a broker or other middleman. Over the years, I've been in line quite a few times at hotels, rental car counters, etc. listening to someone in front of me dealing with an issue with a reservation booked through an intermediary. The desk clerk's answer is always, "We can't help you, you need to take that up with (name of middleman)." Booking through Redweek, I would worry about having that happen to me at check-in. Booking direct through MVC or with cash direct with Marriott International offers much greater peace of mind.

I think that instead of simply ignoring a channel (Redweek) out of hand, the best strategy would be to compare the relative price of all the channels, then decide if the price difference is worth the risk, convenience, other attributes of each channel. That way you have a realistic comparison of how much more you may be paying given the way you book

 

[ljmiii]

#1 - Points are rarely a deal at City Collection. They are just there to make the portfolio look good.

I have found the opposite to be true. While we also use our Abound Points for stays at 'traditional' MVC resorts (particularly for stays shorter than 7 nights), some of the best directly comparable values can be found at City Collection locations.

Generally speaking, the Abound prices for City Collection (formerly Pulse) locations range from good to amazing...particularly for 1BR or 2BR villas. The only real exception to this is are the NYC and SF locations which only offer guestrooms and have high weekend rates (when hotel rates are usually lower). The prices for a weekday and weekend stay at a medium villa on good but not peak dates are presented below in rough order of appearance in the MVC DP/Abound program using the 2025 Abound Point MFs of $0.81480/point.

Boston Pulse 300/700 (1BR) - $244.44/$570.36
Washington DC - 350/475 (King or Double Studio) - $285.18/$387.03
Washington DC - 450/625 (1BR) - $366.66/$509.25
South Beach - 350/450 (Guestroom) - $285.18/$366.66
South Beach - 825/1075 (2BR) - $672.21/$875.91
NYC 525/725 (King Guestroom) - $427.77/$590.73
San Diego - 225/325 (1BR King) - $183.33/$264.81
San Francisco - 350/575 (Urban view Guestroom) - $285.18/$468.51
SF RCC - 450/750 (1BR) - $366.66/$611.10 (technically not MVC)
Waikiki - 375/525 (Studio) - $305.55/$427.77
Waikiki - 525/750 (1BR) - $427.77/$611.10

We stay at the Mayflower, Custom House, and SF RCC relatively frequently and have stayed at the SF, SD, and South Beach City Collection locations as well. I always check Abound Points vs cash vs Bonvoy Points prices and more than 3/4ths of the time Abound is cheapest...sometimes significantly so. We just had a last minute stay at the SF Pulse earlier this month - 245 Points ($199.63) per night per room while SF hotel prices were about double that (or more).

Looking forward, we have an upcoming stay in July at the SF RCC in a 2BR for 675 points ($549.99). At the SF RC a 1BR is $1,289 and a 2BR is $2,072 while at the St Francis a 1BR is $789 and a 2BR is $4,992.

In September we have a weekend stay at the MVC Mayflower. 1700 points ($1385.16) for a 1BR for us and 1300 ($1059.24) for a double for our kids. No cash availability on the MVC side and on the hotel side the Mayflower rooms are $1,805 and $1,261.

And in October we have a tentative weekday stay in a 1BR at the Custom House in Boston for 650 points ($529.62). As opposed to $1,372 for a cash reservation or at the Marriott Long Wharf a basic room is $1,581 and a 1BR is $3,183.

 

[ljmiii]

I think that instead of simply ignoring a channel (Redweek) out of hand, the best strategy would be to compare the relative price of all the channels, then decide if the price difference is worth the risk, convenience, other attributes of each channel. That way you have a realistic comparison of how much more you may be paying given the way you book

Yes and no. Like @JIMinNC I simply ignore the prices on some travel sites because after one too many bad experiences I consider the risk factor to be 100%. For me it's Airbnb and Expedia not Redweek, but I simply don't care if the Expedia price is 90%, 50%, or 10% of what I'm seeing elsewhere because in almost all circumstances I'm not OK with my reservation not actually getting me a room.

And I don't want the next thing I hear after, "I'm sorry sir but I don't have a room for you" be "Because you booked through BlahTravelCo I can't do anything for you. You'll have to contact BlahTravelCo's customer support staff directly."

 

[rthib]

I have found the opposite to be true. While we also use our Abound Points for stays at 'traditional' MVC resorts (particularly for stays shorter than 7 nights), some of the best directly comparable values can be found at City Collection locations.

I have found that my Corporate rate at a Marriott Hotel is usually cheaper than the Point cost at the City Collection.
However small sample size since I usually only looked at NY, SF, San Diego and Waikiki.
Glad it is working for you. My point was only that I would not use City as way to benchmark the program and also would not plan on just using those as the value is not as great.
I have gotten great deals on escapes to San Diego and the SF RCC.

 

[ljmiii]

I have gotten great deals on escapes to San Diego and the SF RCC.

Cool! I’ve never seen the SF RCC appear on MVC’s Destination Escapes list…but will look for it more often.