Why Buy Points?

[jellen613]

Because it is the easiest way to overcome the "I already have enough points to cover my vacation needs" objection.

Also, in our most recent presentation in Fort Lauderdale, with the addition of the Vistana and Westin owners, the sales woman was stressing that we should buy points to get us to Executive, as with more owners, to keep Executive and levels above more exclusive (25% of the total owners) the number of points to get to executive level will be going up. We would be grandfathered in to Executive if we purchase now. We have been hearing this for awhile (bought in 2019 to get to executive, then rescinded). Given how we travel and the size of our family (small), our vacation needs are currently met between our deeded week and our additional points purchased.

They also wanted to sell us points to get a higher level in order to get platinum elite. I am already lifetime platinum elite, so don't need more MVC points to achieve that level.

MVC wants to be the sole provider of travel needs, however the value for MVC points for anything but stays is not worth it. During covid when I had some points I couldn't bank or use, I did get a couple of the rental car certificates, and some United airline miles. Otherwise, we use our week and points for stays, and have not lost any points due to lack of usage. We are fortunate to be in Philly, so there are driveable vs train MVCs within 1-6 hours (Fairway Villas, Mayflower, Pulse NYC, Ford's Colony, Custom House).

 

[jellen613]

So now instead of buying for use you buy expensive points to rent! How does that make sense? That sales strategy is not long lasting.

Sadly I think many people have bought with that in mind, that they will cover MFs with rentals. Six years since we first heard this sales strategy. When asked why I don't want to buy more, I say I don't want to pay any more in maintenance fees, and that sales strategy is what I have heard every time.
In DC and Fort Lauderdale my husband said to both sales people, "I want to enjoy my vacations, I don't want to be in the business of renting out part of my vacation portfolio." There is this false equivalency of condo and vacation home owners who rent out their vacation homes to help cover their costs. Renting my points or MVC timeshare is not the same as renting a condo or vacation home that I own.

 

[bnoble]

I was surprised when he said that he regularly emailed his clients

Well, he probably does regularly email them, but mostly to ask if they want to buy more points.

That sales strategy is not long lasting.

Then why does it keep being used over, and over, and over, and ....

Hint: Because it works.

 

[JIMinNC]

Don’t understand how MVC can try to push something that is outrageously expensive and has no comparison to trading weeks at Interval.

Totally agree on the very high cost of points today, and I do question their value at those prices, but I would rather use points for bookings than Interval trades any day.

The problem with Interval is you have to put in a request and then wait, wait, wait and hope you get a match. With points, you just go online at the release date and book what unit size and view you want. We hate the waiting and uncertainty of Interval trading and haven’t traded through Interval since 2016 or 2017.

I would have great difficulty justifying today’s cost of points bought direct from MVC, but if Interval trading was the only other option, we would not be MVC owners. We hate trading. Thankfully we acquired our points at a better price than what is offered today, so the program has worked well for us.

 

[Red elephant]

Well, he probably does regularly email them, but mostly to ask if they want to buy more points.


Then why does it keep being used over, and over, and over, and ....

Hint: Because it works.

In the past it may have but it's not long lasting. Weeks are now sitting on redweek and not being rented.

 

[Red elephant]

Totally agree on the very high cost of points today, and I do question their value at those prices, but I would rather use points for bookings than Interval trades any day.

The problem with Interval is you have to put in a request and then wait, wait, wait and hope you get a match. With points, you just go online at the release date and book what unit size and view you want. We hate the waiting and uncertainty of Interval trading and haven’t traded through Interval since 2016 or 2017.

I would have great difficulty justifying today’s cost of points bought direct from MVC, but if Interval trading was the only other option, we would not be MVC owners. We hate trading. Thankfully we acquired our points at a better price than what is offered today, so the program has worked well for us.

I am 75/25 as my studios from my lockoff as well as small bedroom at SDO have been great bargains on interval.

 

[JIMinNC]

I am 75/25 as my studios from my lockoff as well as small bedroom at SDO have been great bargains on interval.

For us it’s not about the value or getting a good bargain. Those can certainly be had with trading more so than points. We just detest the trading process itself.

 

[dioxide45]

Totally agree on the very high cost of points today, and I do question their value at those prices, but I would rather use points for bookings than Interval trades any day.

The problem with Interval is you have to put in a request and then wait, wait, wait and hope you get a match. With points, you just go online at the release date and book what unit size and view you want. We hate the waiting and uncertainty of Interval trading and haven’t traded through Interval since 2016 or 2017.

I would have great difficulty justifying today’s cost of points bought direct from MVC, but if Interval trading was the only other option, we would not be MVC owners. We hate trading. Thankfully we acquired our points at a better price than what is offered today, so the program has worked well for us.

I guess Interval works better for some than others. We rarely put in a request and wait. we did it recently for Hawaii, but we didn’t wait long. We also aren’t concerned about booking a certain unit size because are often able to trade up in unit size to something that is big enough or bigger than what we actually need. It does take a time commitment of searching II for trades, but the savings is significant over using points.

 

[Red elephant]

For us it’s not about the value or getting a good bargain. Those can certainly be had with trading more so than points. We just detest the trading process itself.

Yeah it’s a pain waiting but for my studios it’s the way to go. They give me extra trips within the year as I am flexible. For important trips I use my weeks and book with points.

 

[davidvel]

For us it’s not about the value or getting a good bargain. Those can certainly be had with trading more so than points. We just detest the trading process itself.

If you are not concerned about the cost, then you are not concerned. For us, getting a winter or spring break 2BR ski week every year for about $150-250 a night (depending on the lock off we use) is worth the minimum "hassle." Or a 2BR at Maui Ocean Club or Waiohai. The money matters to us because it just means more travel or dining or activities.

I cannot stand paying more for the same thing than I need to. If we have to wait it is not a problem because we get these trades consistently every year.

 

[bnoble]

In the past it may have but it's not long lasting. Weeks are now sitting on redweek and not being rented.

When I said "it works", I did not mean that owners would recoup costs by renting weeks.

When I said "it works", I meant: It is a sales tactic that convinces people to buy more points. And, it must, or it would not be a strategy that pretty much every developer uses in their sales presentation.

 

[JIMinNC]

If you are not concerned about the cost, then you are not concerned. For us, getting a winter or spring break 2BR ski week every year for about $150-250 a night (depending on the lock off we use) is worth the minimum "hassle." Or a 2BR at Maui Ocean Club or Waiohai. The money matters to us because it just means more travel or dining or activities.

I cannot stand paying more for the same thing than I need to. If we have to wait it is not a problem because we get these trades consistently every year.

I guess I should have said for us it’s not about getting the “best” value or the “lowest” cost. We don’t want to pay more than we have too either, but ease of booking is worth a premium for the convenience. Back when we tried trading for a few years, we never could find what we wanted/needed just sitting in II inventory waiting to be booked. We always had to initiate a search. We always eventually got a match, but the wait was annoying. With points, we just book it and we are done.

The last straw for us was when we had an II exchange cancelled in Hilton Head after a hurricane that took some of Grande Ocean’s inventory out due to water intrusion. Owned reservations and points reservations were honored. We realized then that II bookings were lowest priority. That was our last II deposit.

 

[davidvel]

I guess I should have said for us it’s not about getting the “best” value or the “lowest” cost. We don’t want to pay more than we have too either, but ease of booking is worth a premium for the convenience. Back when we tried trading for a few years, we never could find what we wanted/needed just sitting in II inventory waiting to be booked. We always had to initiate a search. We always eventually got a match, but the wait was annoying. With points, we just book it and we are done.

90% of our trades are not through searches. We still love our trades and salespeople don't believe it.

 

[JIMinNC]

90% of our trades are not through searches. We still love our trades and salespeople don't believe it.

That’s interesting, and good for you. When we would look for exchanges all we could find in inventory was places we didn’t want to go.

 

[Dean]

I would say that 95% of my exchanges are through and OGS and the ones that are not are either VERY easy or retrades.

 

[davidvel]

That’s interesting, and good for you. When we would look for exchanges all we could find in inventory was places we didn’t want to go.

Yes, being on the west coast our favorite places are skiing at Timber Lodge or Mountainside, and Waiohai/MOC/Ko Olina. Most all of our trades are to these locations.

 

[Dean]

I've heard spiel's from sales staff about how they get the best weeks and rent them or how they "manage" their customer's portfolios. I think it very likely they are exaggerating at best, flat out lying more likely. If they were actually doing this I doubt they'd last a day and would be fired. Plus it's not feasible for them to do this on any scale, we all know how hard it is for the top options even for the most informed and motivated of us.

 

[jp10558]

Totally agree on the very high cost of points today, and I do question their value at those prices, but I would rather use points for bookings than Interval trades any day.

The problem with Interval is you have to put in a request and then wait, wait, wait and hope you get a match. With points, you just go online at the release date and book what unit size and view you want. We hate the waiting and uncertainty of Interval trading and haven’t traded through Interval since 2016 or 2017.

IDK about MVC, but I can say my Interval experience with a "great trader" (but not MVC) is a lot of "waiting to see if an OGS hits" so far, and one easy trade from "leftovers" (branson) and 3 getaways. I too prefer just going online and booking - this "forever uncertainty" on trying to find any MVC in Hawaii next year is kinda annoying. If it doesn't match anything by IDK October I'll probably give up on it matching and try and just book via HGVC and Wyndham on points, and maybe RCI Extra Vacations and/or a Getaway that at least is bookable.

IDK if I'd want to do it regularly for anything that wouldn't be a "jump in the car and drive on a lark", i.e. exactly the same thing I can do with RCI Last Calls for a lot less money. I'm just not sure the OGS actually matches, or again if the trading power is just so low on the one's I picked up that I might as well pass them along if I can. Because the only "I might want it" trade I've seen so far is Feb in HHI, but I can get that in a number of ways.

 

[jellen613]

Totally agree on the very high cost of points today, and I do question their value at those prices, but I would rather use points for bookings than Interval trades any day.

The problem with Interval is you have to put in a request and then wait, wait, wait and hope you get a match. With points, you just go online at the release date and book what unit size and view you want. We hate the waiting and uncertainty of Interval trading and haven’t traded through Interval since 2016 or 2017.

I would have great difficulty justifying today’s cost of points bought direct from MVC, but if Interval trading was the only other option, we would not be MVC owners. We hate trading. Thankfully we acquired our points at a better price than what is offered today, so the program has worked well for us.

I am in agreement with all of this. My deeded week is an ok trader, but not a great trader (gold season, HHI, 2 BR, no lockoff). We traded for the very first time this year. I booked a week that I think is desirable (1st week in September), however in looking at the TDI, I could have booked a better week for trading power. I work in healthcare, my schedule is not flexible. I need to know that I have accomodations arranged, I cannot depend on waiting to see if/when I get a match.

Maybe when I retire then I will trade more, we will see. We still really like our home resort, so we go every 2-3 years for sure.

 

[daviator]

I was surprised when he said that he regularly emailed his clients, and regularly helped them rent part of the ownership. He was surprised that my sales person didn't keep in touch with me regularly to provide such services. He also worded the whole sales pitch very strangely, stating that we wouldn't have to pay MFs for many years. I asked if MVC was going to pay my maintenance fees. That is when he drilled down to the details that we would earn enough on rentals to pay the MFs.

My original salesman from 2008, I have not seen or heard from since 2008. The salesman that I purschased points from in 2012, I have seen and he has done more sales presentations with myself and my husband, however he has never kept in touch otherwise.

I've been going to presentations for more than 20 years. I've had several sales people tell me about all of "their customers" who they help by managing their rentals, secure tough-to-get reservations, etc. I bought from a couple of those people and never heard from them again. Neither is still with the company.

I think it's all hogwash, although it's possible that some salespeople have a side business where they help owners rent their (probably) ill-informed purchases for a percentage of the rental income. But neither MVC nor Vistana has ever had "assigned salespeople" – if you do a sales presentation someplace you've done one previously, it's unlikely you'll get the same salesperson even if they still work there. So the idea that you have "your" salesperson is largely an illusion. Once the presentation ends, whether you bought or not, that person isn't assigned to you anymore.

I feel like Sales has long looked for claims they could make that were largely impossible or impractical to disprove, because those are low-risk ways to motivate buyers which aren't likely to come back and bite and salesperson. The "I provide amazing personal services to "my" clients" is just another one of those nonsense claims that you can't easily disprove but is almost certainly untrue.

 

[goodbadugly]

Exactl

Sadly I think many people have bought with that in mind, that they will cover MFs with rentals. Six years since we first heard this sales strategy. When asked why I don't want to buy more, I say I don't want to pay any more in maintenance fees, and that sales strategy is what I have heard every time.
In DC and Fort Lauderdale my husband said to both sales people, "I want to enjoy my vacations, I don't want to be in the business of renting out part of my vacation portfolio." There is this false equivalency of condo and vacation home owners who rent out their vacation homes to help cover their costs. Renting my points or MVC timeshare is not the same as renting a condo or vacation home that I own.

Exactly!! I don't want to be a travel agent to try to rent to cover my MF's!

 

[rickandcindy23]

"I am not a gambler." That is the easy out on the rental line.

It's just a lot of money Marriott is asking for Abound points. I was aghast when I saw how much our ownership at Westin would cost in Marriott Abound purchase dollars. It's nice to own those Abound points for the cheap price we paid. I have yet to use the points that way.

 

[chapmane1]

My Example #3 is not an extreme case. In fact, for high demand properties it is the rule! There are many ways to acquire points and MVC makes it extremely easy to do so. But it can be very difficult to use them. High demand properties are extremely difficult to book. Being a Chairman does not help! If you were starting out today would you just buy points... no deeds?

We currently own 4,000 annual trust points per year and have an extremely difficult time getting a reservation (or never) where we want to go. After an initial purchase of 3,000 points we were sales-talked into another 1,000 to bring us to Select level and no benefit per se in that. Hoping to sell off our entire 4,000 points (of source at a very low return) in the near future. Not happy with the entire Marriott system.

 

[DRH90277]

We currently own 4,000 annual trust points per year and have an extremely difficult time getting a reservation (or never) where we want to go. After an initial purchase of 3,000 points we were sales-talked into another 1,000 to bring us to Select level and no benefit per se in that. Hoping to sell off our entire 4,000 points (of source at a very low return) in the near future. Not happy with the entire Marriott system.

Only my opinion.....

Full disclosure - Why doesn't Marriott Vacation Club require sales personnel to disclose the following: 1) that you need 5,000 points to do much of anything in the way of a 1-week decent vacation; and, 2) that you have little assurance that you can get the reservation you want because of the absence of available points inventory. By the way, one will spend $68,000 to get those 5,000 points at the full list price after a likely 20% discount.

How can MVC solve this problem??

 

[davidvel]

Only my opinion.....

Full disclosure - Why doesn't Marriott Vacation Club require sales personnel to disclose the following: 1) that you need 5,000 points to do much of anything in the way of a 1-week decent vacation; and, 2) that you have little assurance that you can get the reservation you want because of the absence of available points inventory. By the way, one will spend $68,000 to get those 5,000 points at the full list price after a likely 20% discount.

How can MVC solve this problem??

Really? It is hard enough to sell these overpriced points as it is. You think MVC is going to make it harder for them to do so?