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Why Buy Points?

We currently own 4,000 annual trust points per year and have an extremely difficult time getting a reservation (or never) where we want to go. After an initial purchase of 3,000 points we were sales-talked into another 1,000 to bring us to Select level and no benefit per se in that. Hoping to sell off our entire 4,000 points (of source at a very low return) in the near future. Not happy with the entire Marriott system.
I suspect if you learn the system and plan 12-13 months out you will be able to get reasonable value from those points. Unfortunately the return on selling 4000 points will be a drop in the bucket compared to the purchase price. That is if you can find a buyer at $2-3 PP or less.
 
Only my opinion.....

Full disclosure - Why doesn't Marriott Vacation Club require sales personnel to disclose the following: 1) that you need 5,000 points to do much of anything in the way of a 1-week decent vacation; and, 2) that you have little assurance that you can get the reservation you want because of the absence of available points inventory. By the way, one will spend $68,000 to get those 5,000 points at the full list price after a likely 20% discount.

How can MVC solve this problem??
1. They need to figure how to add real value to the Trust points. Starting by discouraging third party point sales that are 60% less than purchasing direct from MVC.
2. Increase inventory at high demand properties
3. Add real value to owner levels. Examples....Higher levels should receive better villa locations and 13 month+ bookings for Chairman.
4. Negotiate better deals with third party suppliers (cruises, tours and etc.). This would encourage more owners to use these services thus increasing the inventory.

Just a start....
 
3. Add real value to owner levels. Examples....Higher levels should receive better villa locations
Its my understanding that owner status does play into unit location, within the unit type reserved. Some resorts have their own way of managing prioritisation, but at a system level Status does (I believe) impact unit allocation when you reserve via Abound using club points.
 
Delaying new property additions - I was told in a presentation that new property additions would be delayed about 3 years due to an excess of available inventory coming in from other sources including buybacks. Savanah and Charleston were mentioned and one other.

VAC stock is pretty low - is something else going on?
 
We currently own 4,000 annual trust points per year and have an extremely difficult time getting a reservation (or never) where we want to go. After an initial purchase of 3,000 points we were sales-talked into another 1,000 to bring us to Select level and no benefit per se in that. Hoping to sell off our entire 4,000 points (of source at a very low return) in the near future. Not happy with the entire Marriott system.

Only my opinion.....

Full disclosure - Why doesn't Marriott Vacation Club require sales personnel to disclose the following: 1) that you need 5,000 points to do much of anything in the way of a 1-week decent vacation; and, 2) that you have little assurance that you can get the reservation you want because of the absence of available points inventory. By the way, one will spend $68,000 to get those 5,000 points at the full list price after a likely 20% discount.

How can MVC solve this problem??

If the two of you are having problems booking what you want, when are your trying to book? - You should be booking tough-to-get points reservations right at the 13-month and/or 12-month release date. That's what we do, and in 11 years of MVC ownership, we have never failed to get our first-choice points booking on our first try. That includes multiple years in OF/OV units at Maui Ocean Club in the new towers during winter whale season, March in Aruba, Palm Desert in the fall and in March, Newport Coast in the fall, Crystal Shores on Marco Island in November, Ocean Pointe on Singer Island in March, and back before we bought our own condo on Hilton Head, multiple stays on HHI at Grande Ocean and Barony in April/May/September. Admittedly, we almost always try to avoid traveling to family vacation destinations when school is out (we have to deal with that chaos enough when we are at our HHI condo in the summer!), but winter in Maui and March in Palm Desert and Aruba are very high demand too, and there were no issues when booking at release date.
 
Delaying new property additions - I was told in a presentation that new property additions would be delayed about 3 years due to an excess of available inventory coming in from other sources including buybacks. Savanah and Charleston were mentioned and one other.

VAC stock is pretty low - is something else going on?
Charleston and Savannah have indeed been delayed. In the Q1 2025 investor presentation that was released today, those are now showing as 2028 opening. I believe originally they were shown as 2026 or 2027. I do suspect that the slow rezoning/approval process in those cities' historic districts probably has played some role in the delay, but it would not surprise me if they haven't been pushing all that hard on those since the last couple of years they have seen slower sales/earnings growth and have failed in a couple of quarters at least to meet analysts expectations. That's a big reason the stock price is depressed. It would appear, though, that this morning's earnings call was well received as VAC stock is up 12-13% to around $65/share. It's still well below the all time high of around $175 in early 2021 at the start of the Covid "revenge travel" bubble in travel stocks.

They do appear to be prioritizing expansion in Asia/Pacific (which is not that surprising since that is a rapidly emerging part of the world), but the Hyatt Orlando and the the MVC Nashville locations (which were announced after CHS/SAV) appear to have leapfrogged Charleston and Savannah. That would make me think that there may be something more to the CHS/SAV delays than just excess inventory, and leads some credence to the theory that zoning/approvals are playing at least some role in the delay. Here is their timeline from the Q1 2025 presentation:

Marriott Vacations Worldwide 1st Quarter 2025 Presentation (dragged) copy.jpg
 
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If the two of you are having problems booking what you want, when are your trying to book? - You should be booking tough-to-get points reservations right at the 13-month and/or 12-month release date. That's what we do, and in 11 years of MVC ownership, we have never failed to get our first-choice points booking on our first try. That includes multiple years in OF/OV units at Maui Ocean Club in the new towers during winter whale season, March in Aruba, Palm Desert in the fall and in March, Newport Coast in the fall, Crystal Shores on Marco Island in November, Ocean Pointe on Singer Island in March, and back before we bought our own condo on Hilton Head, multiple stays on HHI at Grande Ocean and Barony in April/May/September. Admittedly, we almost always try to avoid traveling to family vacation destinations when school is out (we have to deal with that chaos enough when we are at our HHI condo in the summer!), but winter in Maui and March in Palm Desert and Aruba are very high demand too, and there were no issues when booking at release date.
I respect your views from your previous writings. We are Chairman's Club level, make our reservations 13+ months in advance and get our reservations for our owned weeks. The problem is with the points as this does not work very well. For example, I needed 4 OceanWatch concurrent summer weeks or even 5-6 days, plenty of points, and got 1 last year at 13 months and none subsequently at 12 months and closer in. This may help you to understand why we buy weeks at high demand resorts - as it is the only way to ensure we can get our reservations where we want them. Marriott's excuse is that my fellow owners are not depositing their good weeks for points and suggest I use our points for their "other" stuff.

I can get what we need, but what about the poor owner who buys points with the expectation that he/she can succeed in the competition for points reservations. Why buy a restricted currency with a probable bad outcome? Do they really think we are stupid enough to use the points for overpriced outsourced other stuff or to buy insurance for 800 points that we can buy for $189.

I'm confident that many other owners are focusing their attention on how to make the system work for "them." MVC also does this.
 
Its my understanding that owner status does play into unit location, within the unit type reserved. Some resorts have their own way of managing prioritisation, but at a system level Status does (I believe) impact unit allocation when you reserve via Abound using club points.
There are a few locations that give points owners a leg up above exchangers and others that treat them the same as any other exchanger. Few give any lip service to any type of status for unit assignments officially and even if they say they do, I doubt they actually even look at it.
 
I respect your views from your previous writings. We are Chairman's Club level, make our reservations 13+ months in advance and get our reservations for our owned weeks. The problem is with the points as this does not work very well. For example, I needed 4 OceanWatch concurrent summer weeks or even 5-6 days, plenty of points, and got 1 last year at 13 months and none subsequently at 12 months and closer in. This may help you to understand why we buy weeks at high demand resorts - as it is the only way to ensure we can get our reservations where we want them. Marriott's excuse is that my fellow owners are not depositing their good weeks for points and suggest I use our points for their "other" stuff.

I can get what we need, but what about the poor owner who buys points with the expectation that he/she can succeed in the competition for points reservations. Why buy a restricted currency with a probable bad outcome? Do they really think we are stupid enough to use the points for overpriced outsourced other stuff or to buy insurance for 800 points that we can buy for $189.

I'm confident that many other owners are focusing their attention on how to make the system work for "them." MVC also does this.
There is no question that for your usage needs - requiring multiple units at the same resort in high demand seasons - owning weeks at that resort is the, by far, better choice. Points excel in facilitating an easy way to go to different locations from trip-to-trip or year-to-year. Points would be an expensive way to go to the same place every year. That's why we own weeks on Maui and Kauai that we never convert to points. They are enrolled, so if we can't go there one year, we can convert them to points and use them in other ways, but we have yet to need to do that. We use our other points for flexible travel and they work well for us, but our acquisition cost was well below what we would have to pay today.
 
There are a few locations that give points owners a leg up above exchangers and others that treat them the same as any other exchanger. Few give any lip service to any type of status for unit assignments officially and even if they say they do, I doubt they actually even look at it.
I think it depends on where you stay. At the MVC locations I own and use (Waiohai and MOC) the room control office 'officially' puts Abound points reservations above II exchangers and uses MVC status as a 'tie breaker' within each category. And I've been greeted at Ko Olina, Waikoloa, Boston, DC, SF, SD, and South Beach with a phrase along the lines of, 'Thank you for being Chairman's Club...we've been able to place you in a very nice villa', and they weren't lying.
 
2. Increase inventory at high demand properties
I've often wondered why they don't create a 'Rest of the world Trust' along the lines of the Abound and various Asia trusts (Asia Pacific, Australia, Bali Gardens, and Bali Terrace Points). And put at least some MVC and Vistana Caribbean and Mexican deeds in it. Of course that would undoubtedly cost more money than it would make since in a sales presentation all those locations can be easily booked with Abound Points.

3. Add real value to owner levels. Examples....Higher levels should receive better villa locations and 13 month+ bookings for Chairman.
They do...at least that's been my experience. Though you do have to keep in mind that 'real' owners get priority over those exchanging in using Abound Points at weeks based resorts.

4. Negotiate better deals with third party suppliers (cruises, tours and etc.). This would encourage more owners to use these services thus increasing the inventory.
Again...it would cost MVC money with no real benefit to them. Potential buyers are happy to learn that they can take cruises and tours and don't inquire about the cost.

The one addition that they keep promising and for the life of me I can't figure out why they haven't delivered yet is 'on demand' conversion from Abound Points to Bonvoy Points so any Marriott hotel room with Bonvoy availability would automatically be able to be booked with Abound Points. I expect the Abound to Bonvoy conversion cost will be ruinous...but no worse than any of the other 'cash' options.
 
2. Increase inventory at high demand properties
Very difficult for MVC to do as all the most desirable inventory has been sold and not much was left to convey to the points trust. To add that desirable inventory MVC would have to buy that it back, and most of it sells at prices that MVC doesn't feel it makes financial sense to do so.
 
I think it depends on where you stay. At the MVC locations I own and use (Waiohai and MOC) the room control office 'officially' puts Abound points reservations above II exchangers and uses MVC status as a 'tie breaker' within each category. And I've been greeted at Ko Olina, Waikoloa, Boston, DC, SF, SD, and South Beach with a phrase along the lines of, 'Thank you for being Chairman's Club...we've been able to place you in a very nice villa', and they weren't lying.
Exactly. lip service but status not truly applicable. HI and a couple of other places do tend to micromanage unit assignments more than most. I know that MGO and Surfwatch stated it didn't matter and you'd get what was reserved low floor. They do give priority to multiple units though.
 
Delaying new property additions - I was told in a presentation that new property additions would be delayed about 3 years due to an excess of available inventory coming in from other sources including buybacks. Savanah and Charleston were mentioned and one other.

VAC stock is pretty low - is something else going on?
The general issue around the economy is likely impacting VAC stock.
I've often wondered why they don't create a 'Rest of the world Trust' along the lines of the Abound and various Asia trusts (Asia Pacific, Australia, Bali Gardens, and Bali Terrace Points). And put at least some MVC and Vistana Caribbean and Mexican deeds in it. Of course that would undoubtedly cost more money than it would make since in a sales presentation all those locations can be easily booked with Abound Points.
When they opened Costa Rica, they started selling weeks there. Bali is sold as pure points from the Bali points program. With the MVC Exchange Company, they don't really need to create some kind of international trust. The points from all the systems and elected weeks works the same. They can, and do, already tout in sales presentations how a point is a point and how easy it is.
 
The general issue around the economy is likely impacting VAC stock.

When they opened Costa Rica, they started selling weeks there. Bali is sold as pure points from the Bali points program. With the MVC Exchange Company, they don't really need to create some kind of international trust. The points from all the systems and elected weeks works the same. They can, and do, already tout in sales presentations how a point is a point and how easy it is.
Unless of course you only have legacy elected points. In that case you must fork over thousands to buy trust points and supercharge yours.
 
Very difficult for MVC to do as all the most desirable inventory has been sold and not much was left to convey to the points trust. To add that desirable inventory MVC would have to buy that it back, and most of it sells at prices that MVC doesn't feel it makes financial sense to do so.
They are sitting on a bunch of inventory they have already acquired at RCC SF (highly desirable inventory). Ask yourselves why they have not conveyed it to the MVC Trust (points). Use your collective sleuthing skills to figure out what is going on and bonus points for connecting theories to price of VAC.
 
My weeks broke even from a value perspective in 7-10 years. That seems to have been pretty standard. My points break even was calculated at 20 years. There is a lot less value in the current points system, but having some makes things run smoother overall. I have easier access to points bargains - go to HHI every February at Sunset Pointe for ~ $70 a night - and can make 13 month reservations when only trust inventory is available.

Exchanges to non resort options will always be terrible. MVW has to pay cash and these options are how they recycle the 1,000s of trash weeks in the system that were sold as platinum, but are not truly platinum. The value of those weeks is just not there, so they can't give an even exchange.

I would not conflate the company with the stock VAC. The stock fluctuates in the short run, but long run earnings and dividend are solid and fluctuate based on the general travel ecosystem.
 
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