What can I pre-do as Executor to make things easy?

[cooley]

It’s absolutely worth it to have a consultation with an estate attorney to discuss the particulars of your mother’s situation. Many offer a free initial consultation. The smallest detail can have big consequences. Someone on this thread said things can “go sideways“ quickly and I absolutely agree. One of the biggest shocks of my life was to learn that people I thought were completely trustworthy and fair turned out not to be so. Best to have all of your mother’s wishes laid out in advance in writing.

 

[cooley]

Here's a question. Are those of you serving as executor paying yourselves? There's a fair bit of time, effort, and responsibility involved, so are you compensated for that?

The estate attorney I'm working with brought this up when we were preparing my mom's will. He advised that I track my hours and out-of-pocket expenses, then compensate myself at an hourly rate and reimburse any expenses.

But that of course will raise another question. What's fair and reasonable compensation for an executor?

In California the fees paid to an executor are established by law. However, you are not required to take the fee. The fees are percentages of the estate. You can google it. Fees due to the estate attorney, if any, are the same. Expenses are a separate matter.

 

[PrairieGirl]

Sandi Bo,

Unless it is different state to state (you would need to check) where I live ALL FUNERAL EXPENSES are considered an expense of the estate and you can usually present the bills to the bank and they will pay them directly from the decedent's account to the supplier of said services. Even before the will is probated since that often takes some time. In any event, as executor, you need to pay all of the ESTATE'S outstanding bills BEFORE you distribute the remainder in accordance with the will.

I'm sure your Step-aunt's bank could tell you if they have experience doing this.

 

[rapmarks]

Ya'll are making me feel a little guilty... I did (and continue) to pay myself 1% of the value of my Dad's trust. I am the successor trustee. My accountant takes care of all that - but it is claimed as income (of that I am sure). I sold a few houses and cars, fixed a few after a hurricane, and the trust is written that it provides for the care of my stepmother - and I oversee that. So yeah.... I do pay myself (it is up to my discretion how much).

My Dad went to a great deal of work to put everything he had in a trust. Up until a few months before he passed, things were well taken care of. In the last 4-6 months before his passing he did some, oh shall we say, silly things. He had a brain tumor and was not functioning as well as we thought. He opened several accounts in his name only. He did a few quirky things and I was able to recover, if you will, before he passed. Literally, he was at a point where every question he answered was his birthday (he liked to say it just rolled off his tongue). So before he passed I called banks and credit cards and took care of things. It was nice to close credit cards I knew I'd have to close anyways. I "let him" carry one (that I had closed) so he felt he had something (and I still have it as a souvenir for myself). It's not a recommended path, but because most everything really was taken care of very well, it really wasn't too hard to take care of things.

There were some very nice benefits of the trust. We had to have the houses appraised for fair market value, and that became the cost basis for their sale. Something like that. I see why the rich keep getting richer. I really can't think of a downfall to a trust. I have to say I was slightly annoyed, but got over it, one of his bank accounts was POD. And I don't think it was what he wanted, I suspect it was one of those last month things that he did. When that happens, only the receiver knows, it didn't matter that I was executor and successor trustee, the bank would not give me any information. So had I not known the account ever existed - no trail, so to speak. But I guess that's what POD is for? I'm over it. (My goal was identifying and making sure everything was taken care of).

On a different front. I am the executor for my stepmother's sister. She's my step-aunt, I guess, but seems funny to call her as such (my Dad did not marry my stepmother until 6 weeks before he passed). I offered to be the step-aunt's executor because she has no one, and she was going to move to another state so her deceased husband's niece could care for her estate, etc. It made no sense - she doesn't have much, but has a strong community of friends and support. She lives in an over 50 apartment complex and is also active in her church. They do holiday dinners and bingo, etc. All self managed by the residents. It's very nice, she knows everyone she passes by - and they'll say 'we missed you at yoga this morning', etc. I have no doubt if she moved out of state, she would no longer drive, the niece lives out of town, so wouldn't even be close. So she's staying put and I'll take care of things for her. BUT, as we reviewed things, I realized she had left no money for her burial, etc. So my request of her was to leave me enough money to bury her and take care of things - the rest of her estate will go to her husband's nieces. I wonder how many people do that (don't leave money for their own burial). And I hope I don't run into any issues with these nieces (whom I've never met). BTW - in her closet are the ashes of her deceased husband, nephew, a cousin, and some dogs and cats. The cousin left her no money for the burial of her or her animals. So I hope she leaves me enough money to take care of them all!

Are you saying the house was appraised as to date of trust creation or as to date of death?

 

[heitmullerj02]

I have a family revocable trust, when my husband died, not even a ripple, I was able to just continue on. I asked my Attorney about my son stepping up as a second active trustee, instead of successor, he said NO. If my son got into any legal trouble they can attach my assets. A trust is the way to go, I’m a 45 year banker, and have seen a lot of estate problems, ie deceased beneficiaries, ex spouse, children on drugs, what a mess. Everything, cars, timeshares, real estate, bank accounts should be in your trust If you have one.

 

[rapmarks]

It’s absolutely worth it to have a consultation with an estate attorney to discuss the particulars of your mother’s situation. Many offer a free initial consultation. The smallest detail can have big consequences. Someone on this thread said things can “go sideways“ quickly and I absolutely agree. One of the biggest shocks of my life was to learn that people I thought were completely trustworthy and fair turned out not to be so. Best to have all of your mother’s wishes laid out in advance in writing.

We had lots of problems because trust attorney was willing to change terms of mother in laws trust at bequest of her stepson. Had to hire another lawyer to stop him

 

[Arusso]

If you have an estate worth more than a few thousand dollars (i.e. a house + some investment accounts) do yourself a favor and to consult a trust & estate attorney before doing anything. There could be some tax saving opportunities available and doing things the wrong way can ultimately cost you some money. There are no do-overs here. The laws vary from state to state so while someone's advice could be correct in their state, it could be very incorrect in your state. This is not the time to try to be thrifty.

Completely agree.......Not everyone needs a Trust, but everyone should have a basic Will, Advanced Directive for Medical Care and Durable Power of Attorney if there are adult heirs. The POA is triggered in the case of "lack of capacity" or being declared "incompetent" Both are determinations of cognitive impairment but they are determined differently. I believe a declaration of incompetency can only be made by a judge whereas capacity can be determined by a licensed physician after subjecting a patient to a simple bedside test. Certainly, if there are assets beyond some cash, especially property, cash value life insurance policies, securities, collectables etc, etc. All of this needs to be sorted out. In this case, on-line generic boiler-plate documents are probably not the way to go.

Regrettably, federal and state governments sequester millions each year in taxes because estates were not protected adequately. Lastly, the family dynamics absolutely determine what and how all of this is done. If there is a special assets such as a TS property (deeded or otherwise), I have read that it is recommended that a the desire to will this "asset" to someone also be specified - but only if the heir understands what acceptance of the inherited TS entails and ACCEPTS. If not, it can be willed back to the developer........

Great post !

 

[Sandi Bo]

Are you saying the house was appraised as to date of trust creation or as to date of death?

At the date of his death. In Florida (if that makes a difference).

 

[Sandi Bo]

Sandi Bo,

Unless it is different state to state (you would need to check) where I live ALL FUNERAL EXPENSES are considered an expense of the estate and you can usually present the bills to the bank and they will pay them directly from the decedent's account to the supplier of said services. Even before the will is probated since that often takes some time. In any event, as executor, you need to pay all of the ESTATE'S outstanding bills BEFORE you distribute the remainder in accordance with the will.

I'm sure your Step-aunt's bank could tell you if they have experience doing this.

I will follow-up. When we reviewed things, it felt like there wasn't an account i could 'draw from'. Her sister or her nieces are beneficiaries. Thus to me it looked like there wasn't an account I could take money for expenses from. She was going to make an account with enough to cover expenses, available to me. I need to circle back with her.

 

[Icc5]

I have not read every post above, but I do know trusts, estates and ownerships.
1) talk to an estate attorney
2) Any account that is in trust name will follow what the trust says and will be paid out by the trustee according to the terms.
3) You cannot put your name on an account in the trusts name unless you are a co-trustee
4) If you are not currently a co-trustee you could ask your mom to change the trust to make you co-trustee, or you could ask her to name you as trustee if she becomes incapacitated.
5) You might currently be named trustee upon her death in the trust document. If so, you would do the paying out of the trust assets.
6) As executor of her estate, you would only deal with assets that are not in the trust, unless the trust dumps everything into her estate (not likely)

The ideal for you would be to help her prepare a list of all her assets, where they are and in what name they are listed. Then speak with an attorney, ideally your mom's, but if you have the asset list and a copy of the trust you could go to any estate attorney and ask them to help you understand how the assets will flow.

And no, do not put everything in all the kids names. Use your mom's existing trust and will to make sure everything follows her wishes.

We had to petition a judge to let us put some items into the trust. My brother had just started putting accounts into the trust and had told the attorney that he was doing it. The judge let us do it. We are in California and I don't know how any of this is dealt with somewhere else. Myself and my youngest brother had a hard time convincing my brother to get a trust. Took us 20 years to convince him. He was cash and stock rich but owned very little property but in California a little property is still worth several hundred thousand.

 

[rapmarks]

At the date of his death. In Florida (if that makes a difference).

You don’t need a trust to get new cost basis on death

 

[Brett]

You don’t need a trust to get new cost basis on death

yes
and named beneficiaries for assets instead of a trust may be better for estate planning

 

[rapmarks]

yes
and named beneficiaries for assets instead of a trust may be better for estate planning

It’s all in the titling. I had an experience this summer Relating to titling of my second home and lot. When we set up our trust in 1997, the lawyer prepared unrecorded deeds for them. This summer, I went to the recorders office with the unrecorded deeds and the death certificate , but they said they no longer take them, has to be done online. So I hired a local lawyer to handle it for me. I wanted these last assets to be in the trust. He called last week to say that this would be easy as I had deeds with both our signatures. I told him they wouldn’t take them at the courthouse, but in two days, the new deeds came in the mail, the same deeds they refused to record for me, signed and dated in1997.
if everything is titled with beneficiaries and transfer on death, there will be no problems settling an estate.
if everything is titled in a trust, shouldn’t be any problems.
we had a marital trust,also called an a/b trust. Half of assets were transferred to b trust on first death, b trust is irrevocable. If estate tax laws are changed in the coming years, those assets are protected from estate tax Limits. Extra work of filing as a trust each year.
everyone mentions a lawyer after death. Actually needed a lawyer very little, need an accountant and a good financial advisor.

 

[Patri]

So Faith, how are you doing with all this advice?

 

[clifffaith]

So Faith, how are you doing with all this advice?

I think I believe I can not be added to a checking account that is in the trust (which was updated about nine months ago). It would have been nice for the bank to say so instead of stringing Mom along and then just fading away. It would have been nice for Mom to have asked the trust lawyer this, since it has been something I’ve been asking about for four years. I expect that this same bank will be slow to give me access to the account. Even one month slow means money will need to come from me to pay gardeners, credit card bills and landline (gas and electricity are autopay).

I fully expect Mom will die, Cliff will have a health crisis and my sister will refuse to vacate the house, all at the same time. If one of those things doesn’t happen I will consider myself fortunate.

 

[rapmarks]

I think I believe I can not be added to a checking account that is in the trust (which was updated about nine months ago). It would have been nice for the bank to say so instead of stringing Mom along and then just fading away. It would have been nice for Mom to have asked the trust lawyer this, since it has been something I’ve been asking about for four years. I expect that this same bank will be slow to give me access to the account. Even one month slow means money will need to come from me to pay gardeners, credit card bills and landline (gas and electricity are autopay).

I fully expect Mom will die, Cliff will have a health crisis and my sister will refuse to vacate the house, all at the same time. If one of those things doesn’t happen I will consider myself fortunate.

Sign your mother up online for her banking account, establish bill pay. A person with good intentions can handle paying the bills through that account
before my aunt died, Bank of America would not recognize my power of attorney. The $55000 in that account, went to her sister, deep in vascular dementia. This is well past the statute of limitations. Chase banker helped me set up online account with BoA, showed me how to pay the Nursing home and pharmacy bills online. I was able to cover about six months of fees with that money. Just keep account open and pay her bills for her.

 

[clifffaith]

Sign your mother up online for her banking account, establish bill pay. A person with good intentions can handle paying the bills through that account
before my aunt died, Bank of America would not recognize my power of attorney. The $55000 in that account, went to her sister, deep in vascular dementia. This is well past the statute of limitations. Chase banker helped me set up online account with BoA, showed me how to pay the Nursing home and pharmacy bills online. I was able to cover about six months of fees with that money. Just keep account open and pay her bills for her.

That would be ideal, EXCEPT the closest she has ever come to using a computer is sitting next to Dad, pre-pandemic, and ordering groceries online when Vons did the deliver themselves. Computer was given to goodwill after Dad died two years ago. I will see if I can get her to allow me to set her up for bill pay on her/my phone, then I can access her account. Great idea! I have no problem paying her bills from my checking account if necessary. However I am loathe to commingle funds and then having to explain to my sister “you see this $100 I paid the gardener? I need to get that back and THEN we split the assets”. She has no effing clue about anything to do with money, unless it is how to work the disability system.

And my darling father saw fit about five years ago to tell me “your sister doesn’t trust you?” WHAT??!! As we were downsizing, I can’t tell you the number of family heirlooms that I had because she had no interest, that when I sold them on eBay, Nextdoor or to the local watch/jewelry guy I gave her half the money when she had no memory I had these items and no knowledge that I was selling them. BS about not trusting me. Mom has a good realtor, and now his son as well, who has been “farming her” for decades. He is a great help with painters, termite guys and general worker bees, and I know he will be a big help selling her house. I have no doubt that he will know the steps to take if my sister refuses to vacate, as will our longtime accountant and Mom’s trust attorney. I am hoping that the fact that my sister suggested the attorney (friend or relative of friend from church), and took Mom to appts with him, gives her some confidence in him, if not me.

 

[rapmarks]

That would be ideal, EXCEPT the closest she has ever come to using a computer is sitting next to Dad, pre-pandemic, and ordering groceries online when Vons did the deliver themselves. Computer was given to goodwill after Dad died two years ago. I will see if I can get her to allow me to set her up for bill pay on her/my phone, then I can access her account. Great idea! I have no problem paying her bills from my checking account if necessary. However I am loathe to commingle funds and then having to explain to my sister “you see this $100 I paid the gardener? I need to get that back and THEN we split the assets”. She has no effing clue about anything to do with money, unless it is how to work the disability system.

And my darling father saw fit about five years ago to tell me “your sister doesn’t trust you?” WHAT??!! As we were downsizing, I can’t tell you the number of family heirlooms that I had because she had no interest, that when I sold them on eBay, Nextdoor or to the local watch/jewelry guy I gave her half the money when she had no memory I had these items and no knowledge that I was selling them. BS about not trusting me. Mom has a good realtor, and now his son as well, who has been “farming her” for decades. He is a great help with painters, termite guys and general worker bees, and I know he will be a big help selling her house. I have no doubt that he will know the steps to take if my sister refuses to vacate, as will our longtime accountant and Mom’s trust attorney. I am hoping that the fact that my sister suggested the attorney (friend or relative of friend from church), and took Mom to appts with him, gives her some confidence in him, if not me.

She doesn’t need to be near a computer. You are near the computer. You know her information. When she is unable to write checks, you can help her.
Do not commingle funds! Not with that sister.
You can open an email account for her too in case of two factor ID

I have given my son my sign in information in case he needs access. They won’t let him on checking account because it is in trust, but he is successor trustee.

 

[Talent312]

I assume my DW's identity online for most medical +financial purposes.
That includes medical portals, pharmacies, banks and brokerages.
But only becuz her Parkinson's makes it impossible for her to it herself.

 

[rapmarks]

I assume my DW's identity online for most medical +financial purposes.
That includes medical portals, pharmacies, banks and brokerages.
But only becuz her Parkinson's makes it impossible for her to it herself.

You said it better than i

 

[LeslieDet]

I am Executor of my 89 year old mother’s estate. She has been busily doing maintenance on her home and decluttering to make things “easier” for me when she dies.

For several years, back before my father died, I have been agitating to be added to her checkbook. To me that would make it “easy” to keep the gardeners, utilities and misc bills paid, and allow for some breathing space before showing up at her bank and Charles Schwab to close accounts. Last December she went in to her bank, after being unable to speak with anyone at the local branch on the phone, to set a date for an appt where I would accompany her to do whatever was necessary to get my signature on her account. They told her they needed to review her trust documents. She brings those to them and then for the next two months she got the runaround about who was reviewing the documents and they’d get back to her. She probably followed up three times before moving on to other projects. I said screw that, let’s close the account and open one somewhere else with both our names on it. She didn’t want to do that “yet”, so here we are with nothing done.

For those of you who have closed a parent’s estate, what should she/I be doing now to smooth the way? Of course the biggest question is will my sister actually move out of Mom’s house after the in-writing agreement that she has three months to find somewhere to go, or will I have to evict her so the house can be sold and proceeds split.

It sounds like your Mom's bank account was in the name of her trust, and if so, if she was trying to add you to the bank account as an authorized signer, don't blame the bank. The trust document controls. Your mom did not have the right to simply change that by going to the bank and asking you to be added. So, is her account in the name of her trust? If so, and if you are the successor trustee of the trust, then you already are going to be accessing the account if she resigns from the trust or passes away. You need to understand that if assets are in the name of the trust, you do not "add" someone to the account. You do not add someone to title. Know where the original trust documents are located. Also, make sure you have a durable power of attorney in place and that your mom has a healthcare power of attorney. If your mom is no longer able or happy managing her financial affairs, and if she has a trust in place, and if you are the successor trustee, then read the trust. Meet with the trust attorney if you are unsure. Your mom can resign from the trust and have the successor trustee step in to manage all of the assets of the trust. That would mean paying the bills of the trust (if her home is in it, as an example). IF she doesn't have her checking account under the name of her trust, then there would be absolutely no reason for the bank to review the trust in order to add you to the account. It is a simple form at the bank. That is why I would surmise that you are not understanding the difference between individual accounts held in the name of a person, and revocable (or perhaps if it was joint between your mom and dad, the trust is now irrevocable) living trust accounts at a bank.

 

[LeslieDet]

If your mother is sane, no memory issues (Dementia or Alzheimers), and has a firm grasp on reality, it may be easier to get a Will - and possibly a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate - to get things in order. When my wife died due to malpractice in 2021, Probate was a costly hassle, but it wasn't terrible. That way, when her day comes, family should know the Will is the final word. As others have said, make sure all her legal documents (accounts, life insurance, retirement, Will, etc) are in one place. The less work you need to do after her death, the better.

TS

It is not for the daughter to decide if her mother does or does not want a DNR. That is horrible advice.

 

[LeslieDet]

Get your name on her bank accounts as a joint owner. Not as an authorized user. My parents added me a few years before their health declined and everything was then so easy. I could get into their safe deposit box too. For something, we saw a lawyer. He talked to them privately to make sure they weren’t being co-erced. My folks were so wise and realistic, and settling their affairs was a breeze, even from a distance.

If the account is held by a trust, no one can be added to the account. Facts matter. If the daughter is a successor trustee of the trust, then the mom can resign from being the trustee and the daughter will step up and manage the accounts in the trust.

 

[LeslieDet]

I have not read every post above, but I do know trusts, estates and ownerships.
1) talk to an estate attorney
2) Any account that is in trust name will follow what the trust says and will be paid out by the trustee according to the terms.
3) You cannot put your name on an account in the trusts name unless you are a co-trustee
4) If you are not currently a co-trustee you could ask your mom to change the trust to make you co-trustee, or you could ask her to name you as trustee if she becomes incapacitated.
5) You might currently be named trustee upon her death in the trust document. If so, you would do the paying out of the trust assets.
6) As executor of her estate, you would only deal with assets that are not in the trust, unless the trust dumps everything into her estate (not likely)

The ideal for you would be to help her prepare a list of all her assets, where they are and in what name they are listed. Then speak with an attorney, ideally your mom's, but if you have the asset list and a copy of the trust you could go to any estate attorney and ask them to help you understand how the assets will flow.

And no, do not put everything in all the kids names. Use your mom's existing trust and will to make sure everything follows her wishes.

Your comment was the first one that provided anything useful to the OP. I'd simply add that with the father/husband having already passed, most likely the trust in place is irrevocable. Thus, the mom couldn't change it; and it would also explain why the bank needed to see the trust documents.

 

[LeslieDet]

One more thought that probably doesn't apply to the OP, but worth thinking about:
Check your state to see if TOD; transfer on death is an option for the home. A little bit of lawyer's time to prepare the deed and the transfer is easy and outside of probate. Add in pay on death bank accounts and it is very clear who is to get what. When I looked into it for my mother, it wasn't available in all states so you would need to check.

TODs work well for things like timeshares; but not for primary residences when there could be inheritance tax issues as well as stepped up basis issues for the recipient. Sometimes probate is worth it.