Westin vistana membership

[Krrishv]

What is the difference in cost of acquisition (capital cost) between Mandatory SVV option and WKV?

We all understand there is a much lower MF to Star Options price Ratio at WKV.

How many years before the additional capital cost represents real out of pocket savings? I always start with an assumption that the initial capital cost with any timeshare is a sunk cost. How long am I really going to own this? If it takes me more than 5 years MF savings to cover the additional capital cost, I lean to the SVV purchase.

How am I going to unload this at some future date? You need an exit plan. Given it's present resale value, and my sunk cost assumption above, the WKV will be easier to unload.

Lastly on the real cost issue: Am I somewhat realistically confident that WKV will hold some of its value 5 to 8 years out? Where does that land me on the decision?

This is the way I think about timeshare purchases.

My ultimate timeshare exit strategy is somewhat easier. I am Canadian (non-resident in the USA is the key). I can walk away and not worry about a mark, or even shadow, on my credit rating. This is a last resort nuclear option, but it is an option. I couldn't ever trigger this without assuming I am walking away from all my Vistana and Marriott units. This is in my estate planning notes to my family. Cut them loose.

If you mean by Weston Kierland villa (WKV) that is a mandatory resort as well right? I am not able to understand your comparison

 

[dioxide45]

The 148100 Star options is a 2 bedroom platinum plus. The 2 bedroom can be locked off into 2 different 1 bedrooms. You can now use each of the 1 bedrooms to exchange in II for 1 week each. So you end up with two weeks. When exchanging, you can exchange into any resort system you find in II such as Marriott, etc.
II charges an annual fee ($99, you get a discount of you sign up for multiple years) plus an exchange fee ($219, I don't remember if there is lower price when exchanging into a Marriott).
If you buy in Kierland, you may want to just use the VSN network and use your star options exchange for now and then maybe sign up for II later.
As for reserving and renting using your star options, I will let those that own there chime on on the restrictions. However, keep in mind the gold season at Kierland is hot (Phoenix, AZ). I am not sure how marketable those weeks will be.

The additional capital outlay shouldn’t matter considering it won’t lose 100% of the resale value.

 

[Ski-Dad]

I was comparing mandatory Westin Kierland Villas ("WKV") with the specific mandatory Sheraton Vistana Villages ("SVV") units.

WKV MF per Star Options are known to be perhaps the lowest MF $ per Star Option ratio in the Vistana system, but it also has a much higher cost of entry.

The mandatory units at SVV, being Bella and Key West, have a materially lower cost of acquisition, but the MF to Start Options expense ratio is higher.

How many years to the crossover or break even point? Consider the capital cost at sunk as a starting point.

The Star Options crowd here will know the math inputs better than I.

 

[dioxide45]

I was comparing mandatory Westin Kierland Villas ("WKV") with the specific mandatory Sheraton Vistana Villages ("SVV") units.

WKV MF per Star Options are known to be perhaps the lowest MF $ per Star Option ratio in the Vistana system, but it also has a much higher cost of entry.

The mandatory units at SVV, being Bella and Key West, have a materially lower cost of acquisition, but the MF to Start Options expense ratio is higher.

How many years to the crossover or break even point? Consider the capital cost at sunk as a starting point.

The Star Options crowd here will know the math inputs better than I.

There isn’t anything to recoup if you are later able to resell the WKV week for what you bought it for resale.

 

[Ski-Dad]

There isn’t anything to recoup if you are later able to resell the WKV week for what you bought it for resale.

The key words are: if you are later able to resell

As I noted above, it will likely be easier to unload the WKV later than an SVV. I also believe it is likely that WKV will hold some value; however, my starting point on any timeshare acquisition is to consider the capital cost as sunk. Most Tuggers would agree that to be true for the vast majority of timeshares. It may not be true for WKV, but that's my starting point. I may take a chance otherwise, but I start there.

​

 

[daviator]

What is the difference in cost of acquisition (capital cost) between Mandatory SVV option and WKV?

We all understand there is a much lower MF to Star Options price Ratio at WKV.

How many years before the additional capital cost represents real out of pocket savings? I always start with an assumption that the initial capital cost with any timeshare is a sunk cost. How long am I really going to own this? If it takes me more than 5 years MF savings to cover the additional capital cost, I lean to the SVV purchase.

How am I going to unload this at some future date? You need an exit plan. Given it's present resale value, and my sunk cost assumption above, the WKV will be easier to unload.

Lastly on the real cost issue: Am I somewhat realistically confident that WKV will hold some of its value 5 to 8 years out? Where does that land me on the decision?

This is the way I think about timeshare purchases.

My ultimate timeshare exit strategy is somewhat easier. I am Canadian (non-resident in the USA is the key). I can walk away and not worry about a mark, or even shadow, on my credit rating. This is a last resort nuclear option, but it is an option. I couldn't ever trigger this without assuming I am walking away from all my Vistana and Marriott units. This is in my estate planning notes to my family. Cut them loose.

If you're buying resale, I think it's reasonable to assume that what you buy will have similar value in five or ten years, probably a bit more as a result of inflation. The big depreciation from the developer purchase price has already occurred and isn't going to happen again. The only thing that might change that is if MVC manages to somehow gut the VSN program and make it less valuable. Even if that happens I think it will take decades.

 

[Eric B]

There isn’t anything to recoup if you are later able to resell the WKV week for what you bought it for resale.

Reasonable minds may disagree on this. If I bought a WKV week for $10,000 20 years ago and sold it for $10,000 this year, I would have lost the use of that $10K for 20 years. If that use included 5% simple interest compounded annually, it would be worth ~$16,500 in today's dollars. I may feel better about it because "I have my $10K back" but that $10K is really worth somewhat less this year than it was in 2004.

On the other hand, if I get a mandatory SVV week for free, the differential cost is spread out over the 20 years and it could be a lower total cost even if I just have to give it away or default and lose to foreclosure. The math winds up being a bit different for converting the stream of costs than just comparing the lost time value of the capital investment. It might be simplest to compare a 2 BR Bella or Key West 81K with a 1 BR WKV 81K if anyone really wants to do the math.

There can be other considerations like rental value of a WKV week booked there as compared to SVV but I didn't pick mine up to rent out as a general rule. There's also no real guarantee that VSN will continue to exist in 20 years or that the market will value WKV as highly. I kind of like the low capital investment route and do still see the occasional mandatory SVV week show up on Timeshare Nation for free - if I were in the market for more StarOptions that's where I would go but for the number I already have and the additional VSN dues for a non-Abound ownership.

Perhaps the best strategy would be to pick up a mandatory SVV week for free when the opportunity presents itself and immediately list it for sale for a high reasonable price then use it until someone else wants it enough to pay that price. By "high reasonable price," I mean a price that someone might actually pay for it that would cover the transfer costs but it might take a while for the buyer to appear.

 

[dioxide45]

Reasonable minds may disagree on this. If I bought a WKV week for $10,000 20 years ago and sold it for $10,000 this year, I would have lost the use of that $10K for 20 years. If that use included 5% simple interest compounded annually, it would be worth ~$16,500 in today's dollars. I may feel better about it because "I have my $10K back" but that $10K is really worth somewhat less this year than it was in 2004.

That's just it. There are so many variables that change the equation depending on how you look at it. Yes, there is also opportunity costs involved. There are also unknowns of how much will MFs increase over time at the two resorts. One being in Florida may see bigger increases due to the condo environment there. If the poster is also expecting a 100% depreciation on the WKV purchase, not only do they have the 100% capital loss, they also have the possible 5% interest loss over time. I suspect all the variables may be why no one has come forward with the numbers that the poster is looking for.

 

[YYJMSP]

It's all fuzzy math, you can twist the numbers to support any argument.

As a Canadian, another significant thing to take into account is fluctuating forex. Some years it was more significant than the actual change in MFs

Bottom line is always buy where you want to go, be happy you can exchange to somewhere else, and enjoy your vacation

 

[Ken555]

Regardless of your perspective, if you're contemplating WKV or SVV resale, you're already in a stronger position than many buyers in the timeshare market.

Reflecting on my experience with my WKV 148k week, which I've held since 2006 when the maintenance fee was around $950, I believe it was one of my better decisions. While I have some concerns about the changes Marriott has made regarding the brand, service quality, and customer policies, I still find great enjoyment in my trips and genuinely look forward to visiting the resorts. If I had to make the decision again today, I would likely choose the same week, provided I felt that investing in a Marriott-managed system was worthwhile.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

If you're buying resale, I think it's reasonable to assume that what you buy will have similar value in five or ten years, probably a bit more as a result of inflation. The big depreciation from the developer purchase price has already occurred and isn't going to happen again. The only thing that might change that is if MVC manages to somehow gut the VSN program and make it less valuable. Even if that happens I think it will take decades.

I tend to agree although you never know? Anyone who bought Maui resale 5-10 years ago would probably be looking at taking a loss with today's depressed prices, especially in the non-OF categories. The fire has definitely spurned a high volume of resales which in turn have prices well below 50% of where they were just over a year ago.

 

[Ken555]

I tend to agree although you never know? Anyone who bought Maui resale 5-10 years ago would probably be looking at taking a loss with today's depressed prices, especially in the non-OF categories. The fire has definitely spurned a high volume of resales, which in turn have prices well below 50% of where they were just over a year ago

You can buy an annual WKORV OV 2-bed for ~$6k?

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

You can buy an annual WKORV OV 2-bed for ~$6k?

Looks like about $10K is the going price for those but I don't know what they were in the past. WKORV-N 2BR IV EOY that were selling for ~$8K in 2016 (I turned down offers) and were still ~7.5K last year are currently selling for <$4K.

 

[Ken555]

Looks like about $10K is the going price for those but I don't know what they were in the past. WKORV-N 2BR IV EOY that were selling for ~$8K in 2016 (I turned down offers) and were still ~7.5K last year are currently selling for &lt;$4K.

EOY IV was not ~$7.5k last year. WKORV prices have been low for years.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

EOY IV was not ~$7.5k last year. WKORV prices have been low for years.

Do you have proof of that? I monitor the price of WKORV-N EOY IV pretty closely (as I have 2 of them) and at the time of the fire and right up to the end of 2023 the Redweek 'average' was around 7.5K, it dipped to around 5K at the turn of the year and has dropped again to around 4K or less at present (those are the prices they are actually being marked as 'Sold' at, not the prices sellers are asking).

 

[Ken555]

Do you have proof of that? I monitor the price of WKORV-N EOY IV pretty closely (as I have 2 of them) and at the time of the fire and right up to the end of 2023 the Redweek 'average' was around 7.5K, it dipped to around 5K at the turn of the year and has dropped again to around 4K or less at present (those are the prices they are actually being marked as 'Sold' at, not the prices sellers are asking).

I watch the prices, but don't track it closely. In my experience, Redweek is a good approximation of the higher end of resale value. We have had multiple threads on this topic, especially during the early years of Covid when prices fell. Perhaps I'm remembering the outlier sales, but I know I saw some at about this price more than a year ago.

 

[daviator]

I’m going to sound a lot like a timeshare salesman when I say this, but I looked at my initial timeshare investments as “investments in vacations.” I bought from the developer so I probably overpaid for those vacations, but the fact is that my ownerships have forced us to take more vacations, more regularly, than we would have otherwise, and while that’s sometimes an annoyance in some ways, overall it’s the ROI I was hoping for. You can’t put a price on that.

It’s certainly not wrong to look at things from only a financial perspective, but for many of us with busy lives and lots of demands on our time, financial return isn’t necessarily the only metric or even the best metric to use.

 

[Eric B]

I’m going to sound a lot like a timeshare salesman when I say this, but I looked at my initial timeshare investments as “investments in vacations.” I bought from the developer so I probably overpaid for those vacations, but the fact is that my ownerships have forced us to take more vacations, more regularly, than we would have otherwise, and while that’s sometimes an annoyance in some ways, overall it’s the ROI I was hoping for. You can’t put a price on that.

It’s certainly not wrong to look at things from only a financial perspective, but for many of us with busy lives and lots of demands on our time, financial return isn’t necessarily the only metric or even the best metric to use.

That's completely understandable. I own several fractionals that I use myself every year and spent way more on than I did my Vistana or Marriott ownerships. I consider that similarly to be ownership as an investment in vacations at that location and times of year. I do think about ownerships where the usage isn't at a fixed location and fixed time of year as being a lot more fungible; for those I view it as a conversion of my yearly vacation budget in dollars to points and seeking the greatest value for my dollar overall is more important to me. Of course, everyone's values will be different.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I’m going to sound a lot like a timeshare salesman when I say this, but I looked at my initial timeshare investments as “investments in vacations.” I bought from the developer so I probably overpaid for those vacations, but the fact is that my ownerships have forced us to take more vacations, more regularly, than we would have otherwise, and while that’s sometimes an annoyance in some ways, overall it’s the ROI I was hoping for. You can’t put a price on that.

It’s certainly not wrong to look at things from only a financial perspective, but for many of us with busy lives and lots of demands on our time, financial return isn’t necessarily the only metric or even the best metric to use.

I agree with this.

 

[Krrishv]

Thank you everyone, This was a great place to learn lot. If these forums are not there I would have bought the 18K thinking that is the best offer.

Currently without any membership, we are spending obviously more money each year for vacation. Also this membership is another way of making us commit to vacation so we can go to vacation every year. We are a family of 4 me, my wife with 2 kids. Some time my parents and in-laws join us, but not all the time. Considering that. What below would be best options. I just want to hear your options.

($13,000 (Maint. Fee: $2,063, 148.1k star options high season)

( $7,850 (Maint. Fee: $1,308, 81k star options high season)

I checked the options value chart most of the places I can get 1 bed premium for 81K star options.

What.i initially bought with Westin Lagunamar which I cancelled was 18K with 44K star options with 1300 maintenance fee which includes club fee, comparing to those, these are golden offers. Only thing I will be missing is abound points since this is a resale, but I can use ii for exchange.

 

[WorldT]

Depends on how many vacations you want to take and where you want to take them.
Let's assume you want to stay at your home resort during your allotted season (you are using weeks not points).
Option #1 is a 2 bedroom which can be split (locked off) into two weeks
Option #2 is a 1 bedroom.
Using that, you get more value if you are planning on staying two weeks consecutively or separately (or renting out one side to reduce the MF).

If you are planning on staying at other resorts in the VSN network, (or your resort using your star options) you can use the star options chart to map out how many weeks you can get depending on where you are heading and which seasons.

If you are staying outside the VSN network, then we go back to the first scenario (lock off capability ) because you will be exchanging weeks for weeks and not star options.

Keep in mind the prices you are looking are negotiable. At the current prices, the difference of 5k would be spread over how many weeks you can extract from your ownership.

 

[Krrishv]

Guys I came across two deals one for Harborside Atlantis for $1, the other for Westin kierland for $7800 . I want to compare and get your thoughts here on which is the best deal. Both sounds like annual deed 81K staroptions in high season. One has more maintenance fee and $0 cost and other has med maintenance fee but it costs 7k. Both I guess are mandatory resorts.

It sounds like whether I am paying the cost upfront for 7 years or pay in maintenance... Let me know your thoughts.

 

[dioxide45]

Guys I came across two deals one for Harborside Atlantis for $1, the other for Westin kierland for $7800 . I want to compare and get your thoughts here on which is the best deal. Both sounds like annual deed 81K staroptions in high season. One has more maintenance fee and $0 cost and other has med maintenance fee but it costs 7k. Both I guess are mandatory resorts.

It sounds like whether I am paying the cost upfront for 7 years or pay in maintenance... Let me know your thoughts.

There is a reason that Harborside is $0. You need to calculate the maintenance fee per StarOption. The problem with Harborside is that most of the weeks/units have very high fee per StarOption. No one wants them for that very reason. The reason the Kierland is $7800 is because it probably has a low maintenance fee per StarOption ratio. Of course it could be a case where someone has also overpriced their unit for sale. Only Platinum Plus weeks at Kierland are a good value. Gold and Silver do not have good maintenance fee to StarOption ratios.

 

[byeloe]

Guys I came across two deals one for Harborside Atlantis for $1, the other for Westin kierland for $7800 . I want to compare and get your thoughts here on which is the best deal. Both sounds like annual deed 81K staroptions in high season. One has more maintenance fee and $0 cost and other has med maintenance fee but it costs 7k. Both I guess are mandatory resorts.

It sounds like whether I am paying the cost upfront for 7 years or pay in maintenance... Let me know your thoughts.

Kierland should hold its value in the future so the $/staroption is the important deciding factor

 

[Eric B]

Another potential issue with Harborside is the high cost to transfer a deed in the Bahamas. I don't own there but understand it is much higher than elsewhere which would be a disincentive to being able to exit ownership there in the future.