• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Westin St. John [Master Thread]

Status
Not open for further replies.

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,840
Reaction score
2,246
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
Last edited:

klatkiew

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Location
Ashburn, VA
WSJ - 2006 Taxes?

I was told at the owners meeting in early Jan that 2006 taxes had finally been sent out to WSJ owners. I have not received the 06' tax bills for either of my units so before i start calling Starwood - can any WSJ owners tell me what's going on?

I understand the remainder of the taxes are expected to be billed about every 6 months until they catch up.

Thanks!
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
58,351
Reaction score
10,052
Location
Northern, CA
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim) NEW: 2 Lawa'i Beach Resort!
There is a big thread about this on the Marriott Board.
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,840
Reaction score
2,246
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
ahem - this is discussed in our own WSJ thread - 2006 taxes are past due - get your property info - and contact WSJ Tax collection office (be patient - you are dealing with island folk...) and find out how to pay your 2006 taxes ASAP (and get your address updated) - interest on these monies started in Oct10. I understand your pain of not being aware (mistakes for this could be on multiple levels), but the Owner is responsible to know about the property taxes. WSJ did send out notice - and the USVI sent out bills.

One of my bills went to the previous owner - luckily they forwarded to me, but I was aware already that they were due because I follow this topic and report in the WSJ thread.

http://virginislandsdailynews.com/news/judge-lifts-freeze-on-v-i-property-taxes-1.1093906
 
Last edited:

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
58,351
Reaction score
10,052
Location
Northern, CA
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim) NEW: 2 Lawa'i Beach Resort!
Oh, yeah, yeah....that's what I meant - see the Starwood WSJ master thread.... Dave has some great insight to this situation... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 

klatkiew

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Location
Ashburn, VA
Couldn't get an answer from Starwood on where my 2006 tax bill was so i called the USVI tax dept directly. My 2006 taxes are showing completely paid. mystery. I never received a bill and I definitely didn't make any payments. ( 3 bedroom pool villa was $408.75 )

She also told me the 2007 bills were going out in early February - fyi.
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,840
Reaction score
2,246
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
Couldn't get an answer from Starwood on where my 2006 tax bill was so i called the USVI tax dept directly. My 2006 taxes are showing completely paid. mystery. I never received a bill and I definitely didn't make any payments. ( 3 bedroom pool villa was $408.75 )

She also told me the 2007 bills were going out in early February - fyi.

If this is truly the case - knowing a bit of how things work (or don't work...) in the USVI - my worries would that payment was intended for another week/villa that got mistakenly credited to your account.

I would call them back and politely (and clearly) state that you did not pay these taxes - that you have no record of paying it. Therefore, there must be a mistake - and that you are worried that once the mistake is found - you will be on the hook for penalities.

Carefeul using logic with them - it can annoy them...

Or... you can blow it off - and wait to fight that battle if/when it arises.

Did you request an address check of your property tax? If it is Virgin Grand villas address (in STJ) - get them to change it to your address (there is a place on the tax bill for this. My week 23 was wrong in the USVI database. I attempted to correct - I guess I will find out in Feb. My bet is that that the previous owners will get the bill.

Also - is this a resale? If so, the bill may have gone to the previous owners and they paid because it was their usage year (?).
 

klatkiew

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Location
Ashburn, VA
It wasn't a resale. I called back and had them double check. She said it was paid by Starwood directly. hhhmmm.
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,840
Reaction score
2,246
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
It wasn't a resale. I called back and had them double check. She said it was paid by Starwood directly. hhhmmm.

[deleted - I see that you own VG phase...]

If WSJ-VG HOA actually did pay (strange) - I would attempt to get to the bottom of it. You could try and email Phil or Bob (WSJ-VG HOA BOD members) - or the WSJ-VG HOA Treasurer and ask. WSJ-VG owners are responsible for their property tax bills (we paid our 2006 bill in Sept 2010) - unless you have special caveat for your ownership that they paid for you - and then billed you???? weird...
 
Last edited:

NerdAlert

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
90
Reaction score
9
Location
Florida
Klat, may be a dumb question, but did you have title to your weeks in 2006? If not, Starwood was probably responsible for the taxes. Happened to us soon after we bought (in 2005) but never got the usage (until 2006), got a nice tax bill (2005) so I kindly mailed it to Starwood. They paid it. Bam.
 

klatkiew

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Location
Ashburn, VA
We did own that unit in 2006 (puchased from developer in 2002) however, we switched units in January 2007 as part of a deal we made with our additional purchase in 2007. In other words - in 2006 we owned week 2/unit 4115 and in 2007 we owned week 2/4413 instead of 4115. So Starwood got unit 4115 back in early 2007.

I'm thinking i'll call back tomorrow and see if unit 4413 is paid for 2006 just to make sure i covered everything.
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,840
Reaction score
2,246
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
I think you are getting to the crux of the issue (more info is always better) - looks like WSJ/SVO likely paid the taxes for 2006. sweet...
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,840
Reaction score
2,246
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
If you have a USVI property tax bill - the assessed value (1998) is listed on the bill.
The tax bill has assessed land and assessed improvement (= assessed total) on the tax bill. The assessed land is zero - so the assessment is all improvment and you are taxed on that rate.

I imagine if the assessed improvement is more than current resale values (listed with Assessors office) - you could appeal when they hike up the taxes for 2010 - due after 2007-2009 tax bills that is taxed at the 1998 rate.
 

scooter

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
107
Reaction score
0
Location
NY
Maybe I missed it, but is there a map of the resort showing the building/unit numbers? We're thinking of buying in the secondary market. Anyone know if 3321 is oceanview? Thanks!
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,840
Reaction score
2,246
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
There is a map in Resources stickie at top of page - it won't help with the OV question - but 3321 (1 Bd, upper floor of B33) does have an OV.
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,840
Reaction score
2,246
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
Property Tax Update (from STJ Tradewinds)

Judge Gomez Tosses Out V.I. Unity Day Group’s Property Tax Law Suit
Written by Jaime Elliott
Monday, 07 February 2011 06:00

The V.I. Unity Day Group will not have its day in court on Monday, February 7, just as members had feared.

District Judge Curtis Gomez threw out the group’s lawsuit against the V.I. government on Monday, January 31. Unity Day Group members filed the suit in April 2008 on grounds that property revaluations conducted on the island were based on flawed data.

In his opinion, Gomez ruled that future tax bills might not be based on that data since the V.I. Code stipulates that all properties must be assessed every five years and the data in question began being collected six years ago.

“Given the assessment scheme set forth in the Code, it is not pre-ordained that the plaintiffs will receive tax bills using the BearingPoint assessment system that is challenged in their complaint,” Gomez wrote in his opinion, as quoted in the V.I. Daily News.

While the government is in a new revaluation cycle, however, the data BearingPoint collected — which the V.I. Unity Day Group alleges is seriously flawed — will be the base of future revaluations, according to the group’s attorney James Derr.

“I think the judge’s error is in confusing the collection of the data and the creation of the database with the analysis of the data,” said Derr.

Although Gomez ruled that the group’s case was moot because BearingPoint’s data is not likely to be used for the required revaluations in the future without being altered, Derr maintained that the data needs to be thrown out.

“Gomez’s opinion states there is no likelihood of BearingPoint’s data being used in the new revaluation cycle, but he’s wrong because the data collected is still in the database,” said Derr. “The Tax Assessor has stated that she intends to use that data the next time she issues tax bills at the new rates.”

“The contract between BearingPoint and the government about cyclical reinspection said 10 percent of all existing properties per year should be revisited and corrected,” Derr said. “Using the 2006 base year, that means some of that data, which we say is wrong, could be used as late as 2016.”

Unity Day Group planned to file a motion for reconsideration requesting Gomez to amend his ruling and allow the case to go forward on the basis of that flawed data, Derr explained.

“The argument we’ll make is that part of the case should be allowed to go forward and we should be allowed to challenge the accuracy of the data that was collected,” he said.

“We will be pointing out that there are two things — the data itself and then what you do with that data,” said Derr. “What you do with that data is moot now, but we still contend that the government should not be allowed to use that underlying data.”

The Unity Day Group had 14 days from January 31 to file the motion for reconsideration. Once filed, Gomez will rule whether to amend his opinion or deny the motion. If the motion is denied, Derr planned to file an appeal with the 3rd Circuit, he explained.

Controversy over property taxes in the Virgin Islands has been swirling since 2000, when a group of property owners filed suit against the government alleging the system it was using was unfair.

Following several years of inaction, the court issued an injunction freezing property taxes at 1998 rates, determined to be the last year tax rates were accurate.

The court also required the government to conduct a territory-wide property revaluation and create a viable Board of Tax Review.

The government contracted BearingPoint, which began revaluating properties across the Virgin Islands in June 2004. BearingPoint wrapped up the revaluations in 2008, but many property owners on St. John found errors in those revaluations, which prompted the Unity Day Group’s lawsuit.

In January, Gomez lifted the injunction ruling that the Board of Tax Review was functioning properly and the mandated revaluations were complete. V.I. Unity Day Group members, however, did not settle with the government and instead walked out of mediation.

“Unity Day Group left mediation because the government would not deal with the fact that the data itself is bad and Bearing Point’s ways and methods did not work,” Unity Day Group Property Tax Committee member Pam Gaffin previously told St. John Tradewinds. “We want to say that what Bearing Point did on St. John was incorrect. The results did not meet standards and we need to start from scratch.”

Unity Day Group members pointed to the hundreds of complaints St. John property owners had with their revaluations.

“Out of 1,700 houses, there were 700 informal appeals filed on St. John saying something was wrong with their assessments,” Gaffin said.

Under Gomez’s ruling, the government will issue 2007 tax bills, at the 1998 level, in February. The 2008 bills, also at the 1998 rate, will be issued this summer.

The 2009 bills, the last bills which will reflect the 1998 rates, and 2010 bills, which will reflect newly assessed rates, will both be issued in 2012.
 

GeneNWendy

unconfirmed
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
Question for owners at other resorts than St. John

Hi all,

I'm trying to determine who the auditors are of the various Starwood timeshare resorts. I know that the auditors for Virgin Grand Villas are: MYERS, BRETTHOLTZ & COMPANY, PA. Their address is: 12671 Whitehall Drive Fort Myers, Florida 33907-3626 I know that they also audit Scottsdale Sonoran Villas. If they audit all of the Westin Timeshare villas, something very fishy might be taking place.

Gene
 

Fredm

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
Messages
1,782
Reaction score
8
Location
Palm Desert, CA

Starwood takes 10% off the top.
It is taken on everything. Reserves, taxes, etc.
So, if property taxes increase the management fees increase.
This is not specific to St. John. Nor is it peculiar to Starwood.

Fair? That's another matter. But, all the hospitality company OM contracts are much the same in this regard.
 
Last edited:

GeneNWendy

unconfirmed
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
Not accurate

Starwood takes 10% off the top.
It is taken on everything. Reserves, taxes, etc.
So, if property taxes increase the management fees increase.
This is not specific to St. John. Nor is it peculiar to Starwood.

Fair? That's another matter. But, all the hospitality company OM contracts are much the same in this regard.

As I explained in detail, in 2008, they did not take 10% off of the total. They backed out the million in reserves before taking it. However, they did not back it out in 2009 and probably not in 2010 (still awaiting the financials) when the reserves were in the millions because of the refurbishments. Additionally, Starwood does not take 10% off of the property tax. The taxes for our individual weeks get billed to us directly from the USVI Tax Assessor's office. They might give the invoices to Starwood to mail to us (another waste on Starwood's part), but that has nothing to do with financials.
 

Fredm

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
Messages
1,782
Reaction score
8
Location
Palm Desert, CA
As I explained in detail, in 2008, they did not take 10% off of the total. They backed out the million in reserves before taking it. However, they did not back it out in 2009 and probably not in 2010 (still awaiting the financials) when the reserves were in the millions because of the refurbishments. Additionally, Starwood does not take 10% off of the property tax. The taxes for our individual weeks get billed to us directly from the USVI Tax Assessor's office. They might give the invoices to Starwood to mail to us (another waste on Starwood's part), but that has nothing to do with financials.

If property taxes are not included in the m/f's then they do not take the 10% of the property taxes.
They take 10% of whatever is included in the m/f's.
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,840
Reaction score
2,246
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
Gene - thanks for posting your link here - as many WSJ Owners (and others) read this thread - as observed by the # of views (>46000, #1 thread on SVO TUG). Perhaps I am slow (or too busy), but the letter is difficult for me to follow. However, why don't you email Bob and/or Phil and ask the question?
 
Last edited:

GeneNWendy

unconfirmed
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
Notified both Bob and Phil

Dave,

I am in the process of e-mailing everyone in our voluntary list that link. I can't do it all at once, because GMail only lets me send out one given e-mail to 500 recipients in any 24-hour period. I guess that's their way of preventing SPAM from going out.

In any case, I did in fact e-mail both Bob and Phil.

Regards,
Gene
 
Last edited:

GeneNWendy

unconfirmed
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
Do the math

If property taxes are not included in the m/f's then they do not take the 10% of the property taxes.
They take 10% of whatever is included in the m/f's.

You are clearly not looking at the 2008 column. In 2008, they did not take 10% of the approx $1 million in reserves. Do the math!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top