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Westin St John [Master Thread] - Part 2 (June 2014 and forward)

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taffy19

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These stories make you realize how bad and scary this hurricane really was plus the damage that it did to the homes of the many people who live there.

I agree with lizap now that it will take a very long time before everything is back to normal if it is even possible with the loss of the mature trees, the beautiful shrubs, flowers or even the reef? The structures will be rebuilt one day but that is not the reason why people come to visit this island for. Really sad for everyone. :bawl:
 

dioxide45

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But let's think about that deposit for a second. Vistana is allowing a deposit of an uninhabitable unit because they can substitute the actual deposit with another unit so there is not a like for like there due to exceptional circumstances.

Being as a wsj > ii would always be a bad trade and they are pulling the inventory they are depositing to ii from somewhere ( lots of mud season ski or shoulder in the Carolinas?) then why can't they create a similar imbalance on the SO system.

Bank and borrow also creates a Theta based imbalance.
II has a huge imbalance of inventory already. They get a lot of bulk deposits. I think it is easier for them to fill the demand in II than they can in VSN. If they do offer an II deposit, it will probably be some type of substitute supplemental deposit of some other Vistana week instead of the actual week that the owner has.
 

dewdrops

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Thank you for following this incident and posting an update. The Port rules may also have come about due terrorism/homeland security, an unfortunate consequence.

As we see, all too often, many jump on the bandwagon, whether social media or news media, and blame the "big bad corporation".
****************************************************************
From Eskingill:
From the New York Daily News:
U.S. Virgin Island officials have since confirmed dock security prevented those left behind from boarding the boat.

"What occurred with non-Mariott guests was a necessity, that is normal, legal protocol," U.S. Virign Islands Department of Tourism commissioner Beverly Nicholas-Doty told NBC.
 
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dioxide45

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Thank you for following this incident and posting an update. The Port rules may also have come about due terrorism/homeland security, an unfortunate consequence.

As we see, all too often, many jump on the bandwagon, whether social media or news media, and blame the "big bad corporation".
****************************************************************
From Eskingill:
From the New York Daily News:
U.S. Virgin Island officials have since confirmed dock security prevented those left behind from boarding the boat.

"What occurred with non-Mariott guests was a necessity, that is normal, legal protocol," U.S. Virign Islands Department of Tourism commissioner Beverly Nicholas-Doty told NBC.
This was previously reported in post #1988
 

okwiater

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But let's think about that deposit for a second. Vistana is allowing a deposit of an uninhabitable unit because they can substitute the actual deposit with another unit so there is not a like for like there due to exceptional circumstances.

Being as a wsj > ii would always be a bad trade and they are pulling the inventory they are depositing to ii from somewhere ( lots of mud season ski or shoulder in the Carolinas?) then why can't they create a similar imbalance on the SO system.

Bank and borrow also creates a Theta based imbalance.

Yes but VSN members pay annual fees to be able to use the network. Voluntary owners do not. Why should Vistana provide an accommodation to voluntary resale owners at the expense of paid VSN members?
 

letsgomets

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I own BV xmas week. Bought it through a resale about 8 years ago. Had a renter this year and gave them an immediate refund the moment Vistana announced the cancellation on Thursday. I think that anything else would have been reprehensible, frankly. How can someone put the burden on the renter? You own the property and aren't delivering your half of the bargain. While you can say they should have gotten travel insurance, even if it's in the contract, I don't think the owner would have a leg to stand on as the owner unless your contract says that they owe you the money even if you don't deliver the unit to them. But regardless of what I could or could not have done legally, I couldn't sleep at night if I kept any portion my renter's money, even for MF.

It seems I am getting screwed both ways though. I've given a refund because it's not my renter's fault. But as a resale buyer, Vistana is only offering me the option of an II exchange which, as best as I could tell is virtually worthless and will probably cause me more aggravation and stress trying to find a match to a desired property the next two years. It would be nice to have the StarOptions option. Yes, a prior poster said "but you haven't paid fees to Vistana" and "you knew there are hurricanes in the Caribbean." True statements, but I think everyone should pause and be a little accommodating in a real once-in-a-lifetime disaster. There are Caribbean hurricanes, but not one that really hit St. John for more than two decades. And I haven't paid fees to Vistana, but I think that it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to say, "therefore you cannot exchange under any circumstance other than a resort closure." Does FEMA not help people in Houston rebuild who could have bought insurance instead? But Vistana is corporation and can decide whether to extend good will or not and has no legal obligation if it doesn't want to.

Finally, a little perspective is needed. I lose out on nearly $6000 my renter had agreed to pay (half of which she already paid). Nearly everyone who owns a timeshare at WSJ can afford it. The people who live in the USVI lost a lot more and can't.
 
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tomandrobin

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While watching the morning news, there was a story on St John. During the segment, they interviewed a women who said she worked at the Westin. She mentioned that she was now unemployed because the Westin was heavily damaged and would be closed for a year or more. I am hoping that was just a "guess".........time will tell.
 

sachia007

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Random weird insurance question - if a few buildings in VG have damage, do only those who have timeshares in those buildings have to pay any future special assessment, or will all VG owners have to pay? Likewise, VG owners wouldn't have to pay for special assessment down at the other 2-3 phases on WSJ property, if deemed necessary, do they?
 

letsgomets

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Random weird insurance question - if a few buildings in VG have damage, do only those who have timeshares in those buildings have to pay any future special assessment, or will all VG owners have to pay? Likewise, VG owners wouldn't have to pay for special assessment down at the other 2-3 phases on WSJ property, if deemed necessary, do they?

I think that all of VG is "one" legal unit, as is each of BV, CV and Sunset (so four legal units in total). So each one collectively has to pay (to the extent insurance doesn't cover) for damage to any of the buildings in its division. But the most significant damage outside of Sunset (which doesn't have so many owners) seems to be to the common areas like the lobby building, pool, etc. and that is presumably shared by all owners and Vistana according to a pre-existing formula.
 

remowidget

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Yes but VSN members pay annual fees to be able to use the network. Voluntary owners do not. Why should Vistana provide an accommodation to voluntary resale owners at the expense of paid VSN members?
Actually, I think that Voluntary owners pay the same fees that VSN owners pay. Note: I am a VSN Owner. I personally think Vistana should offer a direct approach to bringing resales into VSN, but they do not. It can be done though. A few weeks ago, I was told if I purchased an additional $30k contract, I could bring a resale property into VSN. I have read on Tug that someone else was offered to to bring their property in for buying a $24k contract.

So resale owners can become VSN owners if they choose to do so, just not for free.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk
 

LisaRex

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While watching the morning news, there was a story on St John. During the segment, they interviewed a women who said she worked at the Westin. She mentioned that she was now unemployed because the Westin was heavily damaged and would be closed for a year or more. I am hoping that was just a "guess".........time will tell.

I saw the same report on MSNBC. She said that the resort was completely destroyed. She is out of a job now. Another resident showed his destroyed home. He, too, is out of work. 60% of their GDP is tourism related. I just hope they have Unemployment insurance or FEMA aid. I cannot imagine their distress.

I really hope that their rebuilding efforts include building new strictures that can withstand stronger hurricane winds, if such a thing is possible.

I wonder if there is any chance of owners claiming this loss on their income taxes...
 
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okwiater

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I own BV xmas week. Bought it through a resale about 8 years ago. Had a renter this year and gave them an immediate refund the moment Vistana announced the cancellation on Thursday. I think that anything else would have been reprehensible, frankly. How can someone put the burden on the renter? You own the property and aren't delivering your half of the bargain. While you can say they should have gotten travel insurance, even if it's in the contract, I don't think the owner would have a leg to stand on as the owner unless your contract says that they owe you the money even if you don't deliver the unit to them. But regardless of what I could or could not have done legally, I couldn't sleep at night if I kept any portion my renter's money, even for MF.

It seems I am getting screwed both ways though. I've given a refund because it's not my renter's fault. But as a resale buyer, Vistana is only offering me the option of an II exchange which, as best as I could tell is virtually worthless and will probably cause me more aggravation and stress trying to find a match to a desired property the next two years. It would be nice to have the StarOptions option. Yes, a prior poster said "but you haven't paid fees to Vistana" and "you knew there are hurricanes in the Caribbean." True statements, but I think everyone should pause and be a little accommodating in a real once-in-a-lifetime disaster. There are Caribbean hurricanes, but not one that really hit St. John for more than two decades. And I haven't paid fees to Vistana, but I think that it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to say, "therefore you cannot exchange under any circumstance other than a resort closure." Does FEMA not help people in Houston rebuild who could have bought insurance instead? But Vistana is corporation and can decide whether to extend good will or not and has no legal obligation if it doesn't want to.

Finally, a little perspective is needed. I lose out on nearly $6000 my renter had agreed to pay (half of which she already paid). Nearly everyone who owns a timeshare at WSJ can afford it. The people who live in the USVI lost a lot more and can't.

FWIW, I think it's very honorable of you to refund your renter's money. However, to say that abiding by the terms of a contract is "reprehensible" is a bit over the top. Travel insurance exists for a reason, and renters knowingly gamble with their payment if they choose not to buy it. Without it, the only remedy for being unable to stay in their rented unit during their rented time period is to be rebooked.

Same for your resale ownership. When you chose to save money by buying resale, you knew the only alternative to having use of your unit was to deposit it into II. I understand what you're saying about this being a once-in-a-lifetime catastrophic event, and I feel badly that no good options are available to you, but I also understand the flip side. I myself often choose to travel without insurance... and I understand and accept the risk of doing so.
 

letsgomets

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FWIW, I think it's very honorable of you to refund your renter's money. However, to say that abiding by the terms of a contract is "reprehensible" is a bit over the top. Travel insurance exists for a reason, and renters knowingly gamble with their payment if they choose not to buy it. Without it, the only remedy for being unable to stay in their rented unit during their rented time period is to be rebooked.

Same for your resale ownership. When you chose to save money by buying resale, you knew the only alternative to having use of your unit was to deposit it into II. I understand what you're saying about this being a once-in-a-lifetime catastrophic event, and I feel badly that no good options are available to you, but I also understand the flip side. I myself often choose to travel without insurance... and I understand and accept the risk of doing so.

That's an interesting perspective - "abiding by the terms of a contract." I actually litigate contracts cases for a living and unless your contract said "you owe me the money even if I don't deliver my half of the bargain" (which itself could be of questionable validity), I don't see how an owner is abiding by the terms of his or her contract by refusing a refund when the resort is closed. Advising a renter to get travel insurance doesn't cut it -- that's intended in the event I'm ready to perform but the renter can't or doesn't want to anymore (sickness, death in family, lost job, snowstorm cancels their flight, etc., or bankruptcy of the supplier). I would bet money that the travel insurer of your renter will not pay the claim and, if they do, they'd sue you for the money back because you are the party who didn't perform by delivering the villa in livable condition. Of course, you wouldn't be in breach for not performing - it is force majeure. But it doesn't mean you are entitled to the other side's performance without yours.

The Westin is no doubt refunding all payments of people who made non-refundable reservations directly with them. You think they'd have a leg to stand on if they told you that the reservation was non-refundable, so sorry that the hotel is closed but you should have taken out insurance? Why are you any different? What would the internet outrage look like if a hotel ever tried that (putting aside bankruptcy, of course, since there's a whole legal regime and rationale of equal treatment of creditors behind that)? Or when someone buys something on the internet that's "final sale" but then the store has a fire and the item is destroyed before it is even shipped to you -- do you think you still have a legal obligation to pay for the item because you knew it was final sale and delivery was irrelevant? I don't think this is even a close call legally.

But yes, even if you had a chance of winning versus your renter, I think that it would be reprehensible to stick it to the renter. They were willing to pay me $6,000 in return for xmas week at the villa. I should profit from this tragedy and, even worse, make someone pay $6,000 for a villa that I can't give them? Why is this any more morally acceptable than raising the price of gasoline when people are fleeing a storm (after all, what's wrong with free market supply and demand?)?

The only close call, in my opinion, would be what to do if the resort had reopened by xmas but the renter no longer wanted to come because the facilities were still under repair and the island needed rebuilding. I think a good argument could be made both ways in that circumstance, both legally and morally. The proposal I was in the process of making to my renter when we heard of the cancellation was that if they didn't want to stay there under those circumstances, we should donate the rental fee to the rebuilding effort.

As far as my disappointment in Vistana, I fully understand that's my bargain. They could generate good will by giving me an option, but as I said in my original post, that's entirely up to them and they have no obligation to do so. I suspect there are not a lot of people in my shoes actually given that VG is mandatory and BV, CV and Sunset are all new enough that there aren't that many third-party resales out there with reservations over the next x months. So the dollars and cents probably isn't so great for them. Some companies would do this without hesitation -- we'll see what Vistana decides to do. But I have no doubt that it is entirely their decision and don't begrudge them their rights.
 

DavidnRobin

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There is a $145 fee to be part of VSN. Voluntary resale owners don't pay this fee.

I believe... V Resort Owners (bought from SVO/VSE) do pay VSN fee if they want to use VSN. They can choose not to be in VSN. Thus... VSN Voluntary
vs. VSN Mandatory where it is required.

Glad VGV is an M Resort.
On FB - there seems to be vitriol against resale BV and CV Owners.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

dewdrops

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I believe... V Resort Owners (bought from SVO/VSE) do pay VSN fee if they want to use VSN. They can choose not to be in VSN. Thus... VSN Voluntary
vs. VSN Mandatory where it is required.

Glad VGV is an M Resort.
On FB - there seems to be vitriol against resale BV and CV Owners.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why is there vitriol against resale BV and CV owners? What did they do?
 

cubigbird

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According to the National Hurricane Center and the Weather Channel it looks like tropical storm Maria is slated to be a hurricane category 3+ forecasted to directly hit USVI and PR sometime late next week. Lets hope that the storm takes a turn and the area can see some relief and get a chance to breathe and continue recovery. The last thing the island needs is another nasty storm.
 
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dsmrp

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Thank you for following this incident and posting an update. The Port rules may also have come about due terrorism/homeland security, an unfortunate consequence.

As we see, all too often, many jump on the bandwagon, whether social media or news media, and blame the "big bad corporation".
****************************************************************
From Eskingill:
From the New York Daily News:
U.S. Virgin Island officials have since confirmed dock security prevented those left behind from boarding the boat.

"What occurred with non-Marriott guests was a necessity, that is normal, legal protocol," U.S. Virign Islands Department of Tourism commissioner Beverly Nicholas-Doty told NBC.

I think the VI Tourism commissioner of a territory dependent upon tourism, fell on her protocol sword. Would have been better to have f/u statement from the Port commissioner, who presumably has jurisdiction over the port rules and security staff. Commissioner Nicholas-Doty also spun it that the 35 people hadn't gone to a "24 hour visitor centers" to register for evacuation. Highly improbable those visitor centers were open on the day of the Marriott ferry, 2 days after Irma struck and knocked out 90% of the power grid and made those hilly narrow roads an obstacle endurance course.

Marriott's communications on the matter was incomplete. They explained only people on manifest could board, but they created the manifest. No explanation from them or VI officials of what attempts Marriott staff on the ground could or could not do to amend the manifest to include those 35 people.

It's commendable how Marriott took care of its guests. If they had been able to get those 35 people on board the ferry too, they would have had a great good-will story. As it is, their explanations were met with mixed reviews and criticism. Unfair or not, people do hold corporations to higher standards than individuals.

Other reports had relief and evacuation assistance coming to St Thomas & St John on Saturday, the day after the Marriott ferry left. Westin helped its guests evacuate on the Saturday too. The 35 non-Marriott guests on St Thomas were able to evacuate on cruise ships 3-4 days later.
 
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dsmrp

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According to the National Hurricane Center and the Weather Channel it looks like tropical storm Maria is slated to be a hurricane category 3+ forecasted to directly hit USVI and PR sometime late next week. Lets hope that the storm takes a turn and the area can see some relief and get a chance to breathe and continue recovery. The last thing the island needs is another nasty storm.

Would be a tragedy if USVI, BVI or PR got hit again :eek: Will pray for a course deviation.
 

Conan

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The Westin is no doubt refunding all payments of people who made non-refundable reservations directly with them. You think they'd have a leg to stand on if they told you that the reservation was non-refundable, so sorry that the hotel is closed but you should have taken out insurance?

The only close call, in my opinion, would be what to do if the resort had reopened by xmas but the renter no longer wanted to come because the facilities were still under repair and the island needed rebuilding.

I bought an Explorer package in 2016 that gave me two years, through 4/20/18, to make a return visit (5 nights) to the Westin St. John. I reserved it for November, 2017 and called Starwood about it yesterday. Of course they've cancelled the reservation, and they tell me I now have until December 15, 2019 to make my visit. They're not offering a refund. It seems to me a refund should be an option, if they can't offer occupancy between now and 4/20/18. If the shoe were on the other foot, would they have let me postpone my return visit beyond the 4/20/18 expiration date set out in our contract?

P.S. So far American Airlines isn't offering a refund either. Their best offer is I can apply what I paid for our tickets to travel someplace else, but only between now and a date in December 2017 which is the one-year anniversary of the day I bought my tickets to St. Thomas.
 

SandyPGravel

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tomandrobin

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Good article. Quotes from Westin general manager. Hopes to open by March. (My rez starts on Feb 23 to Mar 2. )

Http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/travel/2017/09/16/enormous-hurdles-ahead-for-virgin-islands-tourism-industry/Uh6dlhddeqahVAaFOY2xiP/story.html?s_campaign=bostonglobe:socialflow:facebook

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk[/QUOTE

Not sure how they can do $90 million in repairs and be open in six months. But otherwise a good article of the impact to tourism.
 
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SandyPGravel

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My take was going to try to open sections of the resort that had less damage. SB definetly not open by March. If they can open parts of the resort at least some employees could be working.


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