Westin St John [Master Thread] - Part 2 (June 2014 and forward)

[okwiater]

I agree with this concept, but I cannot see how the MF are so high. If my BV MF is $2300 for a 3 br, and they are charging $6,000 for high season in CV for a similarly (actually, smaller) sized unit with similar amenities, I would expect that low season MF would be much lower than $2300, but I do not believe that to be the case.

As OKI pointed out, it's a higher buy-in and higher MF, but we are also seeing *wood set the new MF's higher, overall, for these new units, and it seems like they're being artificially inflated from the beginning, especially when you compare them to the carrying costs of similar resorts in the same area. I forget what Nanea is, but I think I recall a 2br being around $4k/year in MF? Or, nearly $1200 more per unit with smaller kitchen, etc. These new amounts just seem off compared to what is already out there (and being maintained well, I might add!).

You're right. If a 3-bedroom at WSJ-BV is $2300, then even in the extreme hypothetical example of a 3-bedroom at WSJ-CV being $0 during low season, $2300 during mid season, and $4600 during high season, it is STILL less than the actual MF. I wonder why?

 

[GrayFal]

I agree with this concept, but I cannot see how the MF are so high. If my BV MF is $2300 for a 3 br, and they are charging $6,000 for high season in CV for a similarly (actually, smaller) sized unit with similar amenities, I would expect that low season MF would be much lower than $2300, but I do not believe that to be the case. ).

MF for 2BR Resort (low) season is $1889 + SVN fee = 2BR 34-50

Currently the fee is as follows for 95,700 Resort Season (May-December) cost approx 26K
"2015 base fee" $787.52
"2015 points assessment" $1,102.02

Originally Posted by carpie99
STJ Coral Vista

148,100 Trust Options (1 Week 2 Bedroom May - Dec) wk 18/19-33

$38,100 ... $2450 MF

So there is two seasons sold, Resort and Diamond, but three sets of point requirements.

 

[czar]

So if I am reading this correctly, there are really two Resort seasons, which align with the weeks for Platinum and Gold Plus in BV. So the equivalent MF for a 2br Gold Plus week is about $1900 for a 2br, which is what I believe a 2br BV unit MF is, and then an equivalent Platinum MF would be $2450.

Is that correct?

MF for 2BR Resort (low) season is $1889 + SVN fee = 2BR 34-50

Currently the fee is as follows for 95,700 Resort Season (May-December) cost approx 26K
"2015 base fee" $787.52
"2015 points assessment" $1,102.02




So there is two seasons sold, Resort and Diamond, but three sets of point requirements.

 

[GrayFal]

So if I am reading this correctly, there are really two Resort seasons, which align with the weeks for Platinum and Gold Plus in BV. So the equivalent MF for a 2br Gold Plus week is about $1900 for a 2br, which is what I believe a 2br BV unit MF is, and then an equivalent Platinum MF would be $2450.

Is that correct?

Yes, that is correct

BV and CV follow the same calendar
51,52,1-18
19-33
34-50

Only in CV, 51,52,1-18 is called Diamond Season and 19-50 is Resort Season.
Using HOs, at 12-8 months owners in Resort season can reserve any size unit, length of stay they want as long as they have the HOs. At 8 months using HOs, you can reserve in any season regardless of season owned.


And I believe the 3BR units are so costly to buy because you are actually not buying a three bedroom unit. You have to buy a 2BR and a studio VOI and since each VOI has a base fee (see breakdown above) this makes it super expensive.

From the StarOption Chart
"Three bedroom lock off villas are only available for reservations and may not be purchased as part of a VOI"
And there are only 6 3BR L/O in this phase.

 

[czar]

Yes, that is correct

From the StarOption Chart
"Three bedroom lock off villas are only available for reservations and may not be purchased as part of a VOI"
And there are only 6 3BR L/O in this phase.

Wow that's a bit tricky then. I guess best option for me is to wait and see if a BV resale 3br pops up at some point. Or if sales has a unit that I can trade in for.

Thanks.

 

[okwiater]

"Three bedroom lock off villas are only available for reservations and may not be purchased as part of a VOI"

Isn't that technically the same as any other unit in Coral Vista? You buy Home Options in a particular season, but no VOI specifies a right to use any certain unit type.

 

[bobpark56]

WSJ Tax Payment Problem Solved

Hi Bob,

The control number is on the payment coupon on the bottom of the back side of the two-sided 2014 tax bill. Does that help? If not, PM me and I can scan you a copy of what mine looks like.

-tim

Thanks. Our problem is now solved. I sent a brief email note to Ira Mills, Tax Assessor (ira.mills@lgo.vi.gov) requesting our control number. He replied promptly with the information we needed to pay our taxes online. We got to the tax payment page by starting with the tax lookup address supplied by Grayfal (https://propertytax.vi.gov/Lookup/TaxBillLookup.aspx).
--bp

 

[GrayFal]

Isn't that technically the same as any other unit in Coral Vista? You buy Home Options in a particular season, but no VOI specifies a right to use any certain unit type.

Not really, you buy a certain number of HOs in a particular season for a particular unit size.
But you can't buy the number of HOs needed for a 3bedroom in a season as one contract.
You have to buy a 2BR 95.7K and a studio 44K to get enough SOs for a 3BR in that season.

You can't buy 66K HOs or 125 HOs.

In other words, unlike Marriott DC Points which can be bought in any amount in 250 increments, such as 1500 or 2750. And the MFs are based on points owned.....everyone pays the same MF per point.

Edit- I asked the person I am buying my CV ownership from to ask SVN if I purchased a 44K studio ownership if I would have to pay the base fee twice or just the additional points fee...we have not heard back yet.

 

[GrayFal]

Thanks. Our problem is now solved. I sent a brief email note to Ira Mills, Tax Assessor (ira.mills@lgo.vi.gov) requesting our control number. He replied promptly with the information we needed to pay our taxes online. We got to the tax payment page by starting with the tax lookup address supplied by Grayfal (https://propertytax.vi.gov/Lookup/TaxBillLookup.aspx).
--bp

Thanks for the update. I hope next year they correct this on the website look up screen.

 

[okwiater]

Not really, you buy a certain number of HOs in a particular season for a particular unit size.
But you can't buy the number of HOs needed for a 3bedroom in a season as one contract.
You have to buy a 2BR 95.7K and a studio 44K to get enough SOs for a 3BR in that season.

You can't buy 66K HOs or 125 HOs.

In other words, unlike Marriott DC Points which can be bought in any amount in 250 increments, such as 1500 or 2750. And the MFs are based on points owned.....everyone pays the same MF per point.

OK, I see what you're saying. Simply stated, there is no points package offered that provides enough points to stay in a 3-bedroom lockoff for a week.

However, I would still argue that there is no real difference from a reservations standpoint. After all, you can book any number of nights starting at 12 months out, so a single points package will still let you stay for, say, 3 or 4 nights.

 

[okwiater]

Edit- I asked the person I am buying my CV ownership from to ask SVN if I purchased a 44K studio ownership if I would have to pay the base fee twice or just the additional points fee...we have not heard back yet.

Based on everything I've been told by multiple sales people, you pay more than one base fee if you own more than one ownership. It simply doesn't make sense from an accounting standpoint otherwise.

 

[czar]

Based on everything I've been told by multiple sales people, you pay more than one base fee if you own more than one ownership. It simply doesn't make sense from an accounting standpoint otherwise.

This is how it was explained to me, too, when I wanted to buy a specific amount of points for a 2br unit, and because it was unavailable at that time, they offered to sell me two point packages together to make a 2br in the season I wanted, but the MF was much higher than the "sold-out" 2br points package.

 

[GrayFal]

Based on everything I've been told by multiple sales people, you pay more than one base fee if you own more than one ownership. It simply doesn't make sense from an accounting standpoint otherwise.

Yes, but bad for owners.

This is how it was explained to me, too, when I wanted to buy a specific amount of points for a 2br unit, and because it was unavailable at that time, they offered to sell me two point packages together to make a 2br in the season I wanted, but the MF was much higher than the "sold-out" 2br points package.

Yes, but bad for owners.


I also own with Blugreen Vacation Club (La Cabana Aruba)
You pay one base fee of $335 plus club dues of $129 and then a per point fee of $0.0504.

Hoping Starwood would rethink their policy.

 

[LisaRex]

I think that this illustrates what a smart move it was for SVO to replace MFs with HOs. Here's why:

1) Legally, MFs have to be charged equally to owners based on unit size, not season or view.

2) MFs realistically cannot exceed current rental rates or they risk owners walking way.

3) Because of #1 and #2, Starwood is (economically) prevented from charging any owner more in MFs than the rental rate of the lowest season/worst view unit in the place.

If you think about it, #1 makes perfect sense. A housekeeper takes just as long to clean in the winter than in the summer. OF owners don't use the pool and lounge chairs more than IV owners. A family of 4 doesn't cause more wear and tear on a villa if they stay in July vs. May. Legislators either realized this, or were pressured by consumer groups to acknowledge this.

But even though it makes sense to charge owners based on unit SIZE and nothing else, and despite the fact that Starwood charged a HUGE premium to owners to buy higher season and/or upgraded views, they weren't content. No, they want the people who paid more upfront to also pay more ongoing.

How do they do that when both the government and economics are getting in their way? By dispensing with the "maintenance fee" model. With "points," there is no barrier to charging OF owners more to use a villa of the exact same size as an owner who doesn't get a glimpse of the ocean.

With points, instead of the lowest season, worst view being the MAXIMUM they can charge, it'll be the MINIMUM that they'll charge.

No thank you.

 

[czar]

If you think about it, #1 makes perfect sense. A housekeeper takes just as long to clean in the winter than in the summer. OF owners don't use the pool and lounge chairs more than IV owners. A family of 4 doesn't cause more wear and tear on a villa if they stay in July vs. May. Legislators either realized this, or were pressured by consumer groups to acknowledge this.

It does make perfect sense; one issue is that TS salespeople prey on those who can least afford these things. So, in essence, you had people who might or could afford high-season buy-ins and then some people who wanted those seasons but could not afford them and instead ere offered off-peak seasons. Those people cannot afford the mortgage payments or MF, and they bail, leaving the higher-season people, typically, footing the bill even more.

I agree that with the current implementation of HO and the related MF, this new policy does not make sense; however, I also think that the "value" of the resort is less in the late summer and fall, and I'd rather have someone paying something for the unit during that time, even if it's somewhat "inequitable."

My biggest gripe is the starting MF. If a BV 3br total MF for the year is 52*$2300, I would expect a 3br CV to have a similar MF, but it doesn't. I wonder why?

If we broke BV into MF-based seasons, it might look something like this:

Plat Plus: $3450 (20 weeks = $69k)
Plat: $2100 (14 weeks = $29.4k)
Gold Plus: $1200 (18 weeks = $21.6k)

But I believe therein lies the problem - "valuing" a WSJ 3br week for $1200. My suspicion is that they feel the need to level-set the Gold Plus weeks to what BV pays, thereby artificially increasing the MF. For those of you who are familiar with the Aulani issue, they artificially deflated the initial MF projections to drive sales. Perhaps the opposite is true in this case, and it can be justified given the rates we see charged for weekly rentals at resorts in WSJ in peak seasons.

It will be interesting to see the yearly budget and expenses for CV if people have not dissected them already.

I agree - the higher buy-in for that season coupled with the significantly higher MF is not in my playbook. At the same time, perhaps they've offset that a bit by changing a "less" outrageous initial buy-in cost.

 

[GrayFal]

Our 2014 tax bill shows neither a control number nor an invoice number....only a parcel number. How are you folks handling this?

Hi Bob,

The control number is on the payment coupon on the bottom of the back side of the two-sided 2014 tax bill. Does that help? If not, PM me and I can scan you a copy of what mine looks like.

-tim

Thanks. Unfortunately, I sent that payment coupon in with my 2014 payment.

Thanks Tim, I don't have the control number, but once I get the invoice I'll give the online payment a try. It beats a few months of wondering if the check hasn't been cashed because they didn't get it or if they just haven't opened the envelope yet. My town charges us a surcharge if we pay our tax bills online so I am in the habit of writing checks for taxes.

Kathy

Has anyone gotten their paper tax bill in the mail from SVO?
The email was dated 9/1/15.

 

[ekinggill]

Tortola Car Rental

Howdy all. Planning our 2016 trip...going a few days early and contemplating staying on Tortola.

Does anyone have any experience on staying on Tortola? What about renting cars. I see there is both Hertz and Avis along with a ton of small companies.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

[GrayFal]

Howdy all. Planning our 2016 trip...going a few days early and contemplating staying on Tortola.

Does anyone have any experience on staying on Tortola? What about renting cars. I see there is both Hertz and Avis along with a ton of small companies.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

I stayed last year at Long Bay Resort and loved it. It is small but every unit is directly on the water.

That being said, it is really helpful to have a car. If you can drive on STJ, you can drive here but if you can't, you can't !!!

I have also stayed at the Marriott Autograph Scrub Island Resort which is very very very nice but isolated. Because it is on its own island you would have to ferry back and forth to do anything. But for three days of relaxation, it would be great. Again, all units directly on the water. They are two bedroom lock off units. The one bedroom side is spectacular. It has a large marina and many people bare boating stop here overnight. We met many fascinating boaters from all over the world. Restaurant was first rate but I understand there is a new chef now.

 

[GrayFal]

Good news and bad....

http://newsofstjohn.com/2015/09/09/airport-change-may-lead-to-quicker-departure-times/

We’ve got some good news for those of you who are traveling off island via the airport … the hassle of filling out customs forms is gone!

We’ve had several friends travel off island over the past few days, and all have stated that the airport is no longer requiring US citizens to fill out a customs form prior to entering security. That means no more scurrying to get a form, no more waiting in long lines to actually obtain a form, and no more holdups due to the form being filled out incorrectly. Sounds like a win all around!

Passengers will still have to pass through customs, but rather than filling out the form, passengers are being verbally questioned instead. You will still have to show your boarding pass and identification.

We’re not sure how long this will last, but in the meantime, it’s a pretty nice change.

In the event that the rule reverts back to where we need to fill out the paper forms again, you can do so in advance using an editable form online. Here is a link to that form:

http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/CBP Form 6059B English (Fillable)_0.pdf





http://newsofstjohn.com/2015/09/22/more-time-at-the-airport-may-be-in-your-future/

For those of you traveling from the Cyril E. King Airport in the near future, we may have some bad news for you.

We received an email from a News of St. John reader last week alerting us of much longer “recommended” check in times at the airport. The email stated that American Airlines was now suggesting travelers arrive three hours prior to their flight … three hours?! That’s a long time at the airport.

We did a little research, and unfortunately, it is true. According to American Airlines’ website, travelers should arrive 180 minutes in advance when traveling from the St. Thomas airport. In addition, the check in counter will close 90 minutes prior to flight time. That means that if you need to check a bag or have a carry on but have not checked in prior to arriving at the airport, you will not be able to check in or check a bag.

 

[LisaRex]

We received an email from a News of St. John reader last week alerting us of much longer “recommended” check in times at the airport. The email stated that American Airlines was now suggesting travelers arrive three hours prior to their flight … three hours?! That’s a long time at the airport.

Yup. It seems that a great majority of flights back to the mainland all leave in the early afternoon, so a 15 minute span can mean the difference between a little wait and a 2 hour wait. We always travel with a deck of cards for passing the time in the holding pen.

The good news is that the airport restaurant, which seems like a conflated cafeteria, actually has pretty good local food at relatively decent prices.

 

[SandyPGravel]

Yup. It seems that a great majority of flights back to the mainland all leave in the early afternoon, so a 15 minute span can mean the difference between a little wait and a 2 hour wait. We always travel with a deck of cards for passing the time in the holding pen.

The good news is that the airport restaurant, which seems like a conflated cafeteria, actually has pretty good local food at relatively decent prices.

Wow!!! 2 pm flight means leaving the Westin at 10 am at the latest??? Last year we almost missed our Seaborne flight to San Juan because "they" decided to move us to a different flight (up more than an hour) because we were the only two booked on our flight. Had to "fly" through customs that day.

 

[LisaRex]

Wow!!! 2 pm flight means leaving the Westin at 10 am at the latest??? Last year we almost missed our Seaborne flight to San Juan because "they" decided to move us to a different flight (up more than an hour) because we were the only two booked on our flight. Had to "fly" through customs that day.

Yes. This is where renting the car on STT actually comes in handy because the car ferry leaves every half hour, where the Westin ferry has very limited times and trips.

 

[SandyPGravel]

Yes. This is where renting the car on STT actually comes in handy because the car ferry leaves every half hour, where the Westin ferry has very limited times and trips.

Totally agree. I will take the lower cost of the car ferry over the "convenience" of the Westin ferry any day! Even if you do have to back onto the ferry. (That was interesting the first time.)

 

[LisaH]

When we left STT in mid Aug, the wait was a lot longer than usual. On top of that, the air conditioning was broken. The whole process was almost unbearable. We will try to stay one extra day next time to avoid Sat madness...

 

[sachia007]

WSJ tax ?

We bought a timeshare resale, were paid 2015 taxes at our closing from the seller, and would like to pay. Starwood said they can't send us a bill as it was mailed to the previous owner. How can I get the control and invoice number to pay the bill online?

I have contacted the previous owner and asked for him to send it to us if he received it - he hasn't responded.

I can find the previous owners parcel and account # online under "search for a tax bill", but am not seeing the other numbers.

Also, I am an official member of TUG (paid my membership fee a few months ago), but I'm still listed as guest... any way to change that (not a biggie, but I thought I'd ask).