Westin Nanea Timeshare Purchase

[Retread6811]

We went to a presentation and got the following offer. We are new to timeshares and hoping you all can guide us.
We were offered 62,000 Staroptions deeded at Nanea annually, which they told us translated to 2,625 club (Abound?) points to be used elsewhere
MF is $1,140 (plus $200 club fee)

Addons:
Bonvoy Gold Status (meh)
124,000 Staroptions to use in next 18 months
4 certificates to buy 270,000 Bonvoy points for $1,875

$25,700 (plus $895 closing)

A few questions:
Is that conversion accurate?
Is being deeded at Nanea meaningful? We get access to reserve the rooms before others?
Are there other things we should consider?

Looking on TUG, there's little to no Nanea resales, so it's hard to gauge where this falls. I know the consensus is to never buy from the developer, but I'm not able to figure out how much it would cost me to buy a similar package (minus the value of the addons, of course). Any assistance/guidance is appreciated!!

 

[The Colorado Kid]

Did they estimate what size unit annually the 62K options would get you in Nanea?

 

[dioxide45]

A few questions:
Is that conversion accurate?

Yes, that is the correct conversion.

Is being deeded at Nanea meaningful? We get access to reserve the rooms before others?

You will be able to reserve Nanea from 12-8 months out from checkin as your home resort. Non Nanea owners can only reserve with StarOptions starting at 8 months from checkin

Are there other things we should consider?

One problem here is that 62,000 HomeOptions is not an even number to book 7 nights at Neana. A resort view 1BR for a week is 81,000 HomeOptions. You would probably also end up with points every year that can't be used. Though they can be banked, but once banked you can't use them for reservations inside the 12-8 month home resort booking window.

 

[DeniseM]

Here's the thing - You can buy exactly the same thing on the resale market for a fraction of the retail cost. There is a Tugger who is a reputable timeshare real estate agent in Lahaina, and if you are still on Maui, you should look him up: he has all of the details you are looking for:

Syed Sarmad -
808-268-3826
syed@advantagevacation.com

 

[DanCali]

It is rare that buying from the developer makes sense. It is almost never a good idea to do it as a first purchase. The main reason is that it is too expensive, and you never recover that "investment".

The conversion to 2625 seems accurate. And yes, you will be able to book Nanea at 12 months out.

The main thing to consider is what can you get with 62,000 Homeoptions/Staroptions or 2625 Abound points. You need 81,000 Staroptions to book a 1BR in Hawaii and 67,000 for a studio at the other Hawaii resorts. Those amounts are similar for places like Westin Kierland, St. John or Harborside in prime season. So the package you are buying is essentially a "starter" package that you will soon find out is not sufficient for your needs and you will need to spend a similar amount to get what you really need.

The 2625 points in Abound will have a similar problem. It won't get you much in prime season at most resorts but, because you have 60+ resorts in many locations, you can do some things with it in shoulder season. 2625 Abound points for $1140 in maintenance fees is actually not too bad, but it's just not enough to play with for most owners.

Take a look at the tables and decide for yourself.

 

[dioxide45]

Did they estimate what size unit annually the 62K options would get you in Nanea?

Most nights would be a Sun-Thur Resort View 1BR. (five nights)

 

[DanCali]

Here's the thing - You can buy exactly the same thing on the resale market for a fraction of the retail cost. There is a Tugger who is a reputable timeshare real estate agent in Lahaina, and if you are still on Maui, you should look him up: he has all of the details you are looking for:

Syed Sarmad -
808-268-3826
syed@advantagevacation.com

It is true that one can get better value on the resale market after doing research. But it is not "exactly the same thing". Buying Nanea on the resale market will not give the buyer Staroptions or Abound election options. And buying a mandatory resort will give the buyer Staroptions, but will still not provide access to Abound. Whether or not that matters is subjective.

 

[DeniseM]

IMNSHO - If you want Staroptions and Abound, Hawaii is not the place to buy. I would only buy in Hawaii, if I wanted to go to Hawaii every year, or every other year, and rent it the opposite years. I think Hawaii is too expensive to use for Abound and Staroptions trades. However, it's complicated, and that's why I recommend that he talks to Syed.

 

[Retread6811]

Thank you for the quick replies, I really appreciate the feedback. The consensus seems to be that 62,000 isn't enough and, at some point, we'll wish we'd bought more? Unfortunately, due to our circumstances, we can't really book something a year out . . . and, I think, we're done with Maui for the time being. So, having "first dibs" at Nanea probably doesn't matter for us . . . but might be nice to have down the road. If we buy more points on the resale market, could those be combined with the existing to use the 12-8 window to book for a week?

Denise, we are still on Maui, so I may reach out to Syed, as you recommended. Thanks, again, for the quick responses . . . I did not expect that as I try to navigate this whole new world.

 

[rickandcindy23]

It is true that one can get better value on the resale market after doing research. But it is not "exactly the same thing". Buying Nanea on the resale market will not give the buyer Staroptions or Abound election options. And buying a mandatory resort will give the buyer Staroptions, but will still not provide access to Abound. Whether or not that matters is subjective.

Having Abound points sure doesn't matter to me, and that's speaking as a person who is Chairman's Level of Marriott through our Westin Ka'anapali resale weeks we bought through Syed. I will never use those options for anything but Maui, which is why we bought in the first place. I can see us eventually using our studios and our one bedrooms in succession, just for the two of us and having the oceanfront view.

I see nothing in Marriott that I cannot get via exchange that I want. I even grabbed a Ko Olina 2 bedroom with a platinum studio at Willow Ridge. A 2 bedroom for a studio with upgrade fees and exchange fee? It's such a bargain, if you know what you are doing.

Well, our daughter-in-law wants to go to Costca Rica, but she will have to pay rack rate for that because I cannot guarantee we can get it.

I don't love the Abound system and would have to sit with a really good salesperson to tell me how even using what we own in Abound that would be worth more than what we already get with our Westin. I like the titanium level with our credit card, but it went on Rick's old credit card, the old Starwood Amex that gives him a 35K room. I need to look into the other benefits. I am the one with the Brilliant Amex. Maybe I will switch his to the same Amex I have. We would love another 85,000 point room. But we did book a $300 room at the Seattle airport with that 35K credit. Nice surprise. But I could have used 35K points for that.

 

[sponger76]

If we buy more points on the resale market, could those be combined with the existing to use the 12-8 window to book for a week?

That should be possible, assuming two ifs:
If #1: the resale is for the same Home Resort, in your example Nanea
If #2: you can get Vistana to combine them in the same account. Right now they are giving people a hard time combining resales with existing retail accounts. It didn't use to be an issue.

 

[DanCali]

I don't love the Abound system and would have to sit with a really good salesperson to tell me how even using what we own in Abound that would be worth more than what we already get with our Westin.

You will not get that from a MVC salesperson. They will be more focused on getting you to buy than telling you how to use your ownership.

Give Abound some time to grow on you. We have a couple of pre-2010 MVC weeks that we could have enrolled in Abound in 2010 and didn't do it until around 2015 and even that was a bit "under duress" (they were going to raise the points for Executive from 6500 to 7000 and we wanted to get grandfathered with our two weeks worth less than 7000). After we enrolled the weeks we dipped our toes by renting points and really liked the flexibility of combining trips like Princeville/Poipu, STT/STJ, and booking short super-cheap "staycations" at resorts in our area in the off-season. We now own more MVC weeks that got enrolled via developer purchase and which have better value in Abound (MF of $0.35-$0.40 per point), and some of those I'm happy to convert to points annually.

The value you get in Abound for your WKORV OF (8325?) is fantastic. Just renting out the points on vacationpointexchange at the going rate of around $0.70 is worth around $5700-$5800. I doubt you get much more in rental value for the week itself? 8300 points can get you a lot in Abound, especially outside of Hawaii. At Chairman level, if you elected points for a given year you have 3 years to use them (just don't miss the Oct 31 banking deadline). Try and once and figure things out over 2-3 years... worst case is that it was a bad use of MFs spread over 3 years.

 

[rcv82]

As someone who bought 148,100 Nanea HomeOptions from the developer about 8 years ago before finding TUG, I have a couple more observations beyond the high developer cost:
- The big problem with Nanea is that it is mostly 2 bedroom units that do not lock off. This is fine if you usually want a two bedroom, but if you only need a 1 bedroom it kind of sucks for a couple reasons: (1) The one bedrooms are hard to book. You better be right on the ball at 12 months out and even then it is not certain. (2) The 1 bedroom units are like a 2 bedroom minus the master bedroom. So you just get the secondary bedroom/bathroom which is ok but not nearly as nice as the master side. The plus side with the 148,100 HomeOption contract is that it was possible to book a 13 night stay at 12 months out, which you cannot do with a deeded week at weeks-based ownership (like WKORV/WKORVN)
- As others have pointed out, Nanea is a relatively good value in Abound, which would probably be the best way to use a small Nanea contract. As it is worth more as club points than StarOptions.
- For me, the one-bedroom issue was a deal breaker, and when I figured this out it was a year-in to ownership so recission was not an option. Via the developer, I exchanged my Nanea to Westin Flex HomeOptions which is much more flexible. I can use it just as easily at Nanea as with the Nanea HomeOptions, but also I have not had issue using it at WKORV or WKORVN and even there it has the added benefit of being able to book any night of week and for up to 14 nights at 12 months out. The downside is that the maintenance fees are slightly higher than Nanea and it doesn't convert to as many Abound points. While I'm not saying this is better than a deeded week, it does have its advantages.
- I separately bought resale WKORV oceanfront through "Timeshare Resales Hawaii" (they did a good job), which was by far the best move. The only downsides is that it is very competitive to book the most popular weeks at 12 months out and it is limited to Saturday-to-Saturday week at a time booking. (I guess there are a few Sunday-Sunday units, but nothing else.)

So yes, rescinding and buying resale is a good decision. The best reason for a developer purchase it to requalify a resale property into Abound (and VSN if voluntary).

 

[celica7101]

We went to a presentation and got the following offer. We are new to timeshares and hoping you all can guide us.
We were offered 62,000 Staroptions deeded at Nanea annually, which they told us translated to 2,625 club (Abound?) points to be used elsewhere
MF is $1,140 (plus $200 club fee)

Addons:
Bonvoy Gold Status (meh)
124,000 Staroptions to use in next 18 months
4 certificates to buy 270,000 Bonvoy points for $1,875

$25,700 (plus $895 closing)

A few questions:
Is that conversion accurate?
Is being deeded at Nanea meaningful? We get access to reserve the rooms before others?
Are there other things we should consider?

Looking on TUG, there's little to no Nanea resales, so it's hard to gauge where this falls. I know the consensus is to never buy from the developer, but I'm not able to figure out how much it would cost me to buy a similar package (minus the value of the addons, of course). Any assistance/guidance is appreciated!!

I just bought a resale EOY Nanea (first use in 2024) for $10000.

148100 homeoptions.

Resales are available but you may need to use a broker to find them


Sent from my SM-X200 using Tapatalk

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

I just bought a resale EOY Nanea (first use in 2024) for $10000.

148100 homeoptions.

Resales are available but you may need to use a broker to find them


Sent from my SM-X200 using Tapatalk

That's a bargain considering what the OP paid but it's still much more than I'd say it's worth compared to other options available within Vistana.

 

[celica7101]

That's a bargain considering what the OP paid but it's still much more than I'd say it's worth compared to other options available within Vistana.

Yeah. I could have gotten something for a bit cheaper at WKORV/N, but I already have a week there. I was looking to be able to book at Nanea 12 mo. out, and it was part of a plan to flip it via retro, which is in progress right now.

 

[DanCali]

That's a bargain considering what the OP paid but it's still much more than I'd say it's worth compared to other options available within Vistana.

It's not really an apples to apples comparison. It's more than double Homeoptions for 40% of the price, so certainly more cost effective, but:

Resale Nanea = No VSN access
Resale Nanea = No Abound access

These are not trivial things like Bonvoy point conversion or using the ownership for cruises, which provide terrible value.

To get full "functionality" in VSN and Abound, it requires a retro, which is still a developer purchase.

 

[celica7101]

Thank you for the quick replies, I really appreciate the feedback. The consensus seems to be that 62,000 isn't enough and, at some point, we'll wish we'd bought more? Unfortunately, due to our circumstances, we can't really book something a year out . . . and, I think, we're done with Maui for the time being. So, having "first dibs" at Nanea probably doesn't matter for us . . . but might be nice to have down the road. If we buy more points on the resale market, could those be combined with the existing to use the 12-8 window to book for a week?

Denise, we are still on Maui, so I may reach out to Syed, as you recommended. Thanks, again, for the quick responses . . . I did not expect that as I try to navigate this whole new world.

If you can't book something a year out, timeshares may turn out to be a tricky thing to realize the full value from. Most of the best stays are when you can plan a year out, since the good weeks get snapped up pretty quickly (people will stay up until midnight EST / 9pm PDT here) right as the next week becomes available, 365 days out. Then 15 minutes later they're gone.

Most of the advice here is likely to suggest renting first and seeing what properties make the most sense. Note also that for the most part, you should try and buy where you would like to return.

 

[grrrah]

I think you will find a consensus here to rescind, then research, then figure out what works best for you.

If I had to do it over again, I'd recommend resale at KOR or KORN if Maui is your primary goal.

As someone who bought 148,100 Nanea HomeOptions from the developer about 8 years ago before finding TUG, I have a couple more observations beyond the high developer cost:
- The big problem with Nanea is that it is mostly 2 bedroom units that do not lock off. This is fine if you usually want a two bedroom, but if you only need a 1 bedroom it kind of sucks for a couple reasons: (1) The one bedrooms are hard to book. You better be right on the ball at 12 months out and even then it is not certain. (2) The 1 bedroom units are like a 2 bedroom minus the master bedroom. So you just get the secondary bedroom/bathroom which is ok but not nearly as nice as the master side. The plus side with the 148,100 HomeOption contract is that it was possible to book a 13 night stay at 12 months out, which you cannot do with a deeded week at weeks-based ownership (like WKORV/WKORVN)
- As others have pointed out, Nanea is a relatively good value in Abound, which would probably be the best way to use a small Nanea contract. As it is worth more as club points than StarOptions.
- For me, the one-bedroom issue was a deal breaker, and when I figured this out it was a year-in to ownership so recission was not an option. Via the developer, I exchanged my Nanea to Westin Flex HomeOptions which is much more flexible. I can use it just as easily at Nanea as with the Nanea HomeOptions, but also I have not had issue using it at WKORV or WKORVN and even there it has the added benefit of being able to book any night of week and for up to 14 nights at 12 months out. The downside is that the maintenance fees are slightly higher than Nanea and it doesn't convert to as many Abound points. While I'm not saying this is better than a deeded week, it does have its advantages.
- I separately bought resale WKORV oceanfront through "Timeshare Resales Hawaii" (they did a good job), which was by far the best move. The only downsides is that it is very competitive to book the most popular weeks at 12 months out and it is limited to Saturday-to-Saturday week at a time booking. (I guess there are a few Sunday-Sunday units, but nothing else.)

So yes, rescinding and buying resale is a good decision. The best reason for a developer purchase it to requalify a resale property into Abound (and VSN if voluntary).

I'm in the same boat that you were, just that I am still on the Nanea boat and didn't change to flex. All correct, except that surprisingly finding that 1-bedroom has been relatively okay, 12 months out and not on president's day week or 4th of July. Having KOR and KORN as backups for 1-bed/studios with the SOs has worked well for us.

I booked a 13-night stay 1-bed as you described, but ended up cancelling right at 8 months and booking 6 nights at an oceanfront KORN, then rebooking the second half of the 1-bedroom (since we were at 8 mos + 1 week, still only available as homeoptions). The flexibility to book 1 to 13 nights 12 months out, checking in any day has been a silver lining to the high developer cost we lost.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Buying a luxury item like a TS without proper research (and basing it on what Sales tells you…) is a serious mistake no matter what - or how it is justified.
Rescind.

1Bd villas at Nanea are limited.

If you want Nanea - then buy resale Nanea

If you want Maui - buy resale WKORV/N.

If you want StarOptions that can be used for VSN (including Maui) then buy resale WKV P+ or Mandatory SVV.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Retread6811]

We aren't planning to come back to Maui (near future), so we want flexibility which is why the Abound option seems valuable to us. We want to be able to go to different properties for short stays (less than a week, generally). Granted 2,625 Abound points will inherently limit us to a small room or a short stay at most locations (looking through the point guide). Based on the feedback, it sounds like using Abound points is not possible via resale . . . is that a correct statement? If we wanted to go to the same place every year for a week and could plan 12 months in advance, then a resale would absolutely make the most sense. But since we want flexibility and the option to rent for less than a week, is that possible to find on resale? I feel like our request is rather unique and that is why I've had trouble really nailing down the best way for us to "timeshare" . . . but maybe I've just not found the right chats/posts to guide me. So, again, thank you for your feedback. I had a few more questions:

1.) StarOptions vs Abound . . . StarOptions can only be used a limited number of locations, while Abound is more locations?
2.) How does cancellation work with Abound? If I reserve something, I can cancel anytime and get my points back . . . or there's a cutoff?
3.) On the point chart . . . it's per night, right? I shows Sun-Thu or Fri-Sat . . . so, if I wanted to stay "mid-week", I could arrive on Sunday and leave on Friday and use the mid-week point values?
4.) If I can buy an "Abound" timeshare on resale . . . where do I find that?
5.) For Abound . . . if I'm booking mid-week, offseason . . . is that something I'm likely to find available within 1-2 months of use?

 

[grrrah]

We aren't planning to come back to Maui (near future), so we want flexibility which is why the Abound option seems valuable to us. We want to be able to go to different properties for short stays (less than a week, generally). Granted 2,625 Abound points will inherently limit us to a small room or a short stay at most locations (looking through the point guide). Based on the feedback, it sounds like using Abound points is not possible via resale . . . is that a correct statement? If we wanted to go to the same place every year for a week and could plan 12 months in advance, then a resale would absolutely make the most sense. But since we want flexibility and the option to rent for less than a week, is that possible to find on resale? I feel like our request is rather unique and that is why I've had trouble really nailing down the best way for us to "timeshare" . . . but maybe I've just not found the right chats/posts to guide me. So, again, thank you for your feedback. I had a few more questions:

1.) StarOptions vs Abound . . . StarOptions can only be used a limited number of locations, while Abound is more locations?
2.) How does cancellation work with Abound? If I reserve something, I can cancel anytime and get my points back . . . or there's a cutoff?
3.) On the point chart . . . it's per night, right? I shows Sun-Thu or Fri-Sat . . . so, if I wanted to stay "mid-week", I could arrive on Sunday and leave on Friday and use the mid-week point values?
4.) If I can buy an "Abound" timeshare on resale . . . where do I find that?
5.) For Abound . . . if I'm booking mid-week, offseason . . . is that something I'm likely to find available within 1-2 months of use?

Correct, you won't have access to Abound points with a resale VSN purchase. You can buy resale Abound points, which after an added fee, comes out to about $7 / point ($16 when buying from the developer). So 2,625 points would be about $18,4375 (still less than the 27k you spent). The annual maintenance fee will be higher than VSN maintenance fees. You would technically have access to the VSN resorts, but Maui Westins will be very difficult to get. Abound is still new enough that we aren't sure how easily it will be to book the other VSN resorts. The SVV resale options referred to by others will cost about $2-3k for 81-97k staroptions, fyi.

You are on the Vistana forum, so there is probably bias here that the Vistana resorts are of better quality than the Marriott resorts.

Most here would agree that the savings from resale purchases outweigh the benefits of both VSN and Abound you get from a direct purchase. A common idea is to purchase resale, then in the future, purchase a small amount of Abound points to requalify the resale purchase so it has all the benefits returned to it.

 

[celica7101]

We aren't planning to come back to Maui (near future), so we want flexibility which is why the Abound option seems valuable to us. We want to be able to go to different properties for short stays (less than a week, generally). Granted 2,625 Abound points will inherently limit us to a small room or a short stay at most locations (looking through the point guide). Based on the feedback, it sounds like using Abound points is not possible via resale . . . is that a correct statement? If we wanted to go to the same place every year for a week and could plan 12 months in advance, then a resale would absolutely make the most sense. But since we want flexibility and the option to rent for less than a week, is that possible to find on resale? I feel like our request is rather unique and that is why I've had trouble really nailing down the best way for us to "timeshare" . . . but maybe I've just not found the right chats/posts to guide me. So, again, thank you for your feedback. I had a few more questions:

1.) StarOptions vs Abound . . . StarOptions can only be used a limited number of locations, while Abound is more locations?
2.) How does cancellation work with Abound? If I reserve something, I can cancel anytime and get my points back . . . or there's a cutoff?
3.) On the point chart . . . it's per night, right? I shows Sun-Thu or Fri-Sat . . . so, if I wanted to stay "mid-week", I could arrive on Sunday and leave on Friday and use the mid-week point values?
4.) If I can buy an "Abound" timeshare on resale . . . where do I find that?
5.) For Abound . . . if I'm booking mid-week, offseason . . . is that something I'm likely to find available within 1-2 months of use?

1) If you have an ownership that has star options (so one of the "mandatory" resorts or you bought something from the developer), then yes, there are numerically fewer Vistana properties to trade into than the Marriott set. Both can be traded via Interval International.

2) Cancelation - if you cancel greater than 60 days out you should get all your points back. If you cancel within 60 days the points are returned but they can only be use for last minute stays (i.e. those within 60 days)

3) Point chart is per-night but ONLY when used as HomeOptions or StarOptions. For example, a week is a week is a week if you are using your "home ownership" at westin kaanapali. However Nanea is a HomeOption resort so you are not limited to only booking 1 week at a time, you can do slightly longer or shorter stays.

4) See other posts on Abound resale. you can buy the points resale, but you will need to pay Marriott the "junk fees" in order to use them.

5) Midweek, offseason is likely that you will find something on the last minute scale.

 

[THSMTHS]

Correct, you won't have access to Abound points with a resale VSN purchase. You can buy resale Abound points, which after an added fee, comes out to about $7 / point ($16 when buying from the developer). So 2,625 points would be about $18,4375 (still less than the 27k you spent). The annual maintenance fee will be higher than VSN maintenance fees. You would technically have access to the VSN resorts, but Maui Westins will be very difficult to get. Abound is still new enough that we aren't sure how easily it will be to book the other VSN resorts. The SVV resale options referred to by others will cost about $2-3k for 81-97k staroptions, fyi.

You are on the Vistana forum, so there is probably bias here that the Vistana resorts are of better quality than the Marriott resorts.

Most here would agree that the savings from resale purchases outweigh the benefits of both VSN and Abound you get from a direct purchase. A common idea is to purchase resale, then in the future, purchase a small amount of Abound points to requalify the resale purchase so it has all the benefits returned to it.

We have both Marriott and Vistana. We like Vistana's point system better. There is no loss of value, for trading for other resorts in the system, like there is for Marriott. Vistana has also done a better job of usability of their lockoffs. The smaller unit at many of their resorts is very livable. Separate sleeping area, washer/drier and a more serviceable kitchenette.

 

[rickandcindy23]

You would be way better off buying a mandatory Westin Ka'anapali island view in either of the older resorts. Syed can help you with a purchase. He has listings for ocean view, which you can buy for less than $21,000 resale and have 148,000 Staroptions every year. Resales maintain value, developer purchases lose most of the value.

This an older thread, just realized.