Waiting for foreclosure

[LeslieDet]

I believe the distinction is that the OP (nor anyone) id disputing the foreclosure....the dispute/fear is a judgement and or attempt to collect on said judgement. Speaking with an attorney that specializes in debt collection in your state provides you with valid legal information one can use to choose their next course of action.

in many cases the risk of judgement (or efforts to collect said judgement across state lines) is minimal at best even if the foreclosure happens as it wouldnt even be contested by the owner and Ive truly never heard of any situation where a timeshare foreclosure resulted in any monetary judgement against an owner (though im sure if someone dug hard enough they could find something somewhere), heck its even rare for a resort to go thru the foreclosure process at all in cases like this vs just threatening to do so as part of the normal default/delinquent policy. more often than not the resort simply reaches out to the owner to negotiate a voluntary surrender to avoid that added cost and time.

I also doubt that the HOA pursues a deficiency after foreclosure; but the lien foreclosure is still a hit on the credit report for 7 years. Which is why I believe it’s important to not simply ignore and to try to resolve the matter.

 

[TUGBrian]

agreed! its an important distinction for sure! I just feel more people are scared of the terms "foreclosure" and "lien" because they think someone is going to take their home or garnish their wages....vs just a hit to their credit as the more likely outcome.

 

[NicW]

I believe the distinction is that the OP (nor anyone) id disputing the foreclosure....the dispute/fear is a judgement and or attempt to collect on said judgement. Speaking with an attorney that specializes in debt collection in your state provides you with valid legal information one can use to choose their next course of action.

in many cases the risk of judgement (or efforts to collect said judgement across state lines) is minimal at best even if the foreclosure happens as it wouldnt even be contested by the owner and Ive truly never heard of any situation where a timeshare foreclosure resulted in any monetary judgement against an owner (though im sure if someone dug hard enough they could find something somewhere), heck its even rare for a resort to go thru the foreclosure process at all in cases like this vs just threatening to do so as part of the normal default/delinquent policy. more often than not the resort simply reaches out to the owner to negotiate a voluntary surrender to avoid that added cost and time.

Thank you for this. Would you expect they would call us to negotiate a voluntary surrender or more likely to come via mail? I’m thinking that we should not ignore their phone calls at this stage. We’re just trying to make the best of a bad situation and don’t want to screw it up!

 

[LeslieDet]

Thank you for this. Would you expect they would call us to negotiate a voluntary surrender or more likely to come via mail? I’m thinking that we should not ignore their phone calls at this stage. We’re just trying to make the best of a bad situation and don’t want to screw it up!

The ball is in your court. It’s up to you to reach out to see if you can come to an agreement. You admitted you were ignoring calls and bills, thus the legal process was commenced. They’re not going to now call you to discuss. You are the one who needs to reach out. Perhaps you can reach an agreement that doesn’t negatively impact your H’s credit. Good luck.

 

[DrQ]

Thank you for this. Would you expect they would call us to negotiate a voluntary surrender or more likely to come via mail? I’m thinking that we should not ignore their phone calls at this stage. We’re just trying to make the best of a bad situation and don’t want to screw it up!

I would not answer their calls, they are being recorded and any acknowledgment of a debt can be used against you in court. Remember, it is their case to prove, don't give them ammunition. When it comes to negotiation, I would leave it to my lawyer.

 

[LeslieDet]

I would not answer their calls, they are being recorded and any acknowledgment of a debt can be used against you in court. Remember, it is their case to prove, don't give them ammunition. When it comes to negotiation, I would leave it to my lawyer.

You’re completely ignoring that this is a lien foreclosure. You might want to understand the difference. But heck, you’re suggesting they go ahead and hire a lawyer, spend $10k to tell the HOA to go ahead and foreclose, all the while ensuring there’s a foreclosure on H’s credit history.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Be very careful not to object to foreclosure. In Florida it could lead to deficiency judgement. Whereas non-objection or inaction will protect you your assets. See below link from the TUG TS license law sticky. (But still may affect your credit score). You might want to approach them and say "I do NOT object to foreclosure but would you be willing to accept deed in lieu and remove any credit report to save money in court and legal fees?"

Florida – FL, inaction or non-objection results in estate, anti-deficiency foreclosure, but objection leads to judicial, deficiency action: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0721/0721.html
https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ChapterHome.asp?Chapter=61B-37

 

[LeslieDet]

Be very careful not to object to foreclosure. In Florida it could lead to deficiency judgement. Whereas non-objection or inaction will protect you your assets. See below link from the TUG TS license law sticky. (But still may affect your credit score). You might want to approach them and say "I do NOT object to foreclosure but would you be willing to accept deed in lieu and remove any credit report to save money in court and legal fees?"

Florida – FL, inaction or non-objection results in estate, anti-deficiency foreclosure, but objection leads to judicial, deficiency action: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0721/0721.html
https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ChapterHome.asp?Chapter=61B-37

Which is yet another great reason to reach a compromise, if one is still possible. It seems the other commenter believes this isn’t a non-judicial foreclosure.

 

[DrQ]

You’re completely ignoring that this is a lien foreclosure. You might want to understand the difference. But heck, you’re suggesting they go ahead and hire a lawyer, spend $10k to tell the HOA to go ahead and foreclose, all the while ensuring there’s a foreclosure on H’s credit history.

Better than your approach of bringing a baseball bat to a gunfight. Don't object to the foreclosure, but make sure you understand that you avoid any monetary encumbrances.

BS artists on a forum have opinions, but I would get a PROFESSIONAL opinion on my options.

 

[LeslieDet]

Better than your approach of bringing a baseball bat to a gunfight. Don't object to the foreclosure, but make sure you understand that you avoid any monetary encumbrances.

BS artists on a forum have opinions, but I would get a PROFESSIONAL opinion on my options.

Sure. Let’s just ignore my 35 years of being a complex commercial litigator and dealing with millions of dollars of real property transactions.

 

[DrQ]

Sure. Let’s just ignore my 35 years of being a complex commercial litigator and dealing with millions of dollars of real property transactions.

Then YOU should know that to approach legal professionals pro se is stupid. You are not on equal footing. This is NOT a property deal at this point, it is a debt collection action.

The property is lost, the account is in collections, whether or not it is being reported to CRA at this point, they could.

Are YOU proposing to be her advocate and negotiate this deal for her husband and his mother? Are you familiar with Florida timeshare RE law? Are you familiar with NY debt collection laws?

 

[LeslieDet]

Then YOU should know that to approach legal professionals pro se is stupid. You are not on equal footing. This is NOT a property deal at this point, it is a debt collection action.

The property is lost, the account is in collections, whether or not it is being reported to CRA at this point, they could.

Are YOU proposing to be her advocate and negotiate this deal for her husband and his mother? Are you familiar with Florida timeshare RE law? Are you familiar with NY debt collection laws?

Please stop. You might want to go back and read what the OP posted. The foreclosure hasn’t happened yet. You’re reacting as if it’s a debt collector pursuing them post foreclosure.

 

[DrQ]

Please stop. You might want to go back and read what the OP posted. The foreclosure hasn’t happened yet. You’re reacting as if it’s a debt collector pursuing them post foreclosure.

So if a car mechanic places a lien on your automobile for nonpayment of a repair bill, that's not a debt collection action?

 

[DrQ]

Please stop. You might want to go back and read what the OP posted. The foreclosure hasn’t happened yet. You’re reacting as if it’s a debt collector pursuing them post foreclosure.

Here is the letter that another user received from the HOA in the same circumstance:

Notice of Intent to File Lien - Does this Mean It Will Be Judicial?

Hey all. Long story short, my parents (in their 70s) can't afford their timeshare maintenance fees anymore and hired a scam lawyer a few years ago. They haven't paid their maintenance fees for the past few years based on his advice. They ditched the lawyer. HICV is not willing to give them...

tugbbs.com

@NicW I bet that your letter has the same verbiage.

NOTICE TO THE CONSUMER PURSUANT TO THE FAIR DEBT COLLECTION ACT

As I, not a lawyer, say: This is a debt collection problem. That notice gives you rights and you need to determine how those rights are upheld both federally and in NY State. When you talk to a lawyer who knows debt collection laws, you could unwittingly surrender some of those rights. As I said, don't bring a baseball bat to a gunfight.

They have a debt of $7K and a vested interest in keeping you "on the hook". Even if you have to pay some money, you want to come out of this without that Orange Lake property.

 

[DrQ]

DH and I have always had outstanding credit and are very financially responsible. So the idea of just letting something go unpaid and it impacting our credit goes against everything we do. My MIL inquired about getting out the timeshare before she stopped paying a few years ago. I now know that at that time they had a FREE give back program we could have used, but no one told her about that when she inquired. As I recall, it is now thousands of dollars to just give the property back, but you have to be current with your fees. We were NOT going to give them approx $10,000 to take back the property and get nothing in return. Especially when it would have been free if they were upfront about it when she first asked!

So many folks on TUG always say “just let them foreclose”. Well, that’s the process. This is what happens. So, instead of wasting money trying to find a way to avoid the legal process, why not simply use that money towards reducing the debt? The HOA doesn’t create the laws. It just has to follow them. The HOA isn’t the “bad guy” here. The last thing the HOA wants to do is spend money foreclosing. Because that only results in all owners having higher maintenance fees to cover the legal costs required when other owners fail to pay the maintenance fees.

I am not an advocate of "just let them foreclose". Through education, I do know of the program to return my deeds if my maintenance fees are current. That is one thing that we try to do here. The "Just let them foreclose" is the mantra of the Timeshare Relief scam industry that take victims money for a second time and do just that. Hopefully @NicW, that was not the case. This is also the case with the Debt Relief industry too, where they sign up victims on a payment plan for a "program" to deal with their creditors, when in fact they are just taking the money and stiffing the creditors and letting the victims clean up the mess.

There have been times, when somebody has signed a stupidly expensive contract and then lost a job. In another case, a timeshare sold a contract to an 82 year old woman who might have been a victim of elder abuse. In those cases, the advice probably was to walk away.

Most of us have said, "we all bought retail at sometime, you learn to make the most of your purchase."

The problem is that many come here after they are "in the soup". My position is that you should have an advocate in your corner, familiar with the law, and aware of your goal when negotiating with the debtor. This is always going to be an adversarial relationship.

 

[Snazzylass]

The ball is in your court. It’s up to you to reach out to see if you can come to an agreement. You admitted you were ignoring calls and bills, thus the legal process was commenced. They’re not going to now call you to discuss. You are the one who needs to reach out. Perhaps you can reach an agreement that doesn’t negatively impact your H’s credit. Good luck.

No, they are not going to call you. Surely you have obtained copies of all 3 reports, right? For hubs? Experian, trans union and Equifax? They are free. Just go online if you haven't already done so. Step 1 is to determine if this is reported. Frankly, I highly doubt it.

Finding someone with a law degree? Easy! Finding a lawyer who knows this specific situation? meh.

From what you have posted, the T/S is owned Free & clear, as there is no mortgage. Your more recent post explaining that it is the HOA who is contacting you is extremely helpful! It says the maintenance fees & property taxes haven't been paid. People who no longer want their T/S are told on TUG all the time to just stop paying their maintenance fees. It sounds like you don't want it, right? Or cannot afford to bring these fees current?

The HOA is required to notify you, or your husband more correctly, which is what they are doing. Keep reading all their correspondence carefully. Honestly, I'd be tempted to call them and ask. This is all a formality. If you take no action, you will lose the T/S and they will take it back to satisfy the debt. Make sense?

I'm not a lawyer and you want to double-check on all this. Good luck!

 

[DrQ]

Be very careful not to object to foreclosure. In Florida it could lead to deficiency judgement. Whereas non-objection or inaction will protect you your assets. See below link from the TUG TS license law sticky. (But still may affect your credit score). You might want to approach them and say "I do NOT object to foreclosure but would you be willing to accept deed in lieu and remove any credit report to save money in court and legal fees?"

Florida – FL, inaction or non-objection results in estate, anti-deficiency foreclosure, but objection leads to judicial, deficiency action: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0721/0721.html
https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ChapterHome.asp?Chapter=61B-37

Here is the operative clause:

If a timeshare owner fails to make timely payments of timeshare plan common expenses, ad valorem taxes, or special assessments, an assessment lien against the timeshare owner’s timeshare interest may be foreclosed in accordance with a judicial foreclosure procedure or a trustee foreclosure procedure, either of which may result in the loss of the timeshare owner’s timeshare interest. If the managing entity initiates a trustee foreclosure procedure, the timeshare owner shall have the option to object pursuant to Florida law, and in such event the managing entity may thereafter proceed only by filing a judicial foreclosure action.​

The BIG question here, is the Orange Lake HOA going to pursue a trustee foreclosure procedure or a judicial foreclosure procedure? IDK how to tell the difference. You are correct, if it is a trustee foreclosure, but it appears that they have the choice and that they CAN choose the judicial foreclosure option from the start. That's why I suggested hiring a lawyer to figure it out so that you can make an informed decision. If the HOA decides to jump directly to the judicial foreclosure, then I would want a counselor to help negotiate a settlement.

In the letter I saw from another post, the text read:
"... you can still avoid a foreclosure lawsuit by making payment ...

This might just be tough wording to evoke fear, but it is factual. We don't know what they actually do. Right now, they are trying to get payment.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

No objection to hiring a lawyer.

The takeaway from the lawyer who posted this was to NOT object per Florida law. If you object it will definitely end up with a judicial foreclosure and they may find anti-deficiency ruling in addition to giving back the timeshare i.e. if it is not judicial all the developer can do is foreclose and and take back the timeshare. IMHO most companies won't bother with judicial because the cost of lawyers and court fees will exceed any recovery. They would rather take back the timeshare and avoid court - which is what you want. But if you object then it forces it into a judicial proceeding.

 

[DrQ]

.... IMHO most companies won't bother with judicial because the cost of lawyers and court fees will exceed any recovery. They would rather take back the timeshare and avoid court - which is what you want. But if you object then it forces it into a judicial proceeding.

Yeah, the wrinkle in the other thread was that the Orange Lake HOA president of that association was a lawyer, so they had in-house counsel. I suspect that the same goes for here too.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

All the developers have in-house counsel. I cannot speak to Orange Lake but, historically hotel developers want to take back the timeshare and move on. It still takes time and energy.

 

[LeslieDet]

No, they are not going to call you. Surely you have obtained copies of all 3 reports, right? For hubs? Experian, trans union and Equifax? They are free. Just go online if you haven't already done so. Step 1 is to determine if this is reported. Frankly, I highly doubt it.

Finding someone with a law degree? Easy! Finding a lawyer who knows this specific situation? meh.

From what you have posted, the T/S is owned Free & clear, as there is no mortgage. Your more recent post explaining that it is the HOA who is contacting you is extremely helpful! It says the maintenance fees & property taxes haven't been paid. People who no longer want their T/S are told on TUG all the time to just stop paying their maintenance fees. It sounds like you don't want it, right? Or cannot afford to bring these fees current?

The HOA is required to notify you, or your husband more correctly, which is what they are doing. Keep reading all their correspondence carefully. Honestly, I'd be tempted to call them and ask. This is all a formality. If you take no action, you will lose the T/S and they will take it back to satisfy the debt. Make sense?

I'm not a lawyer and you want to double-check on all this. Good luck!

Idk why you’re responding to me. I suggested the OP reach out to see if the HOA would take a deed in lieu at the beginning of her post.

I also indicated that the HOA isn’t now going to call the OP and see if they can amicably resolve. It’s a notice of foreclosure lien that was sent. The HOA is simply jumping through the legal hoops it must in order to pursue the unpaid MFs.

 

[LeslieDet]

The problem is that many come here after they are "in the soup". My position is that you should have an advocate in your corner, familiar with the law, and aware of your goal when negotiating with the debtor

Having legal representation is obviously a good thing. Put some perspective on this scenario. You’re advising the OP to fight like hell and retain counsel to do so. It’s a $7k debt. Given your approach, the OP could easily spend twice that on legal counsel and still have the lien foreclosure for unpaid MFs.

Having an advocate in your corner is one thing, burying your head in the sand is another. I never would advise anyone to bury their head in the sand and hope that it all goes away.

The OP has stated the MFs weren’t paid and they were willing to risk the foreclosure. Ok. Now that process has commenced. Of course any wording on notices will say it’s an attempt to collect a debt. That’s mandatory wording under the FDCPA. That doesn’t mean that some resolution cannot still be made. When you push to “fight like hell” and “make them jump through every hoop”, you’re driving up the attorney fees incurred by the HOA. Those costs will be shifted to the debtor when possible. Why advocate for increasing the debt? There is absolutely nothing wrong with attempting to resolve the matter. No rights are lost.

 

[DrQ]

Having legal representation is obviously a good thing. Put some perspective on this scenario. You’re advising the OP to fight like hell and retain counsel to do so. It’s a $7k debt. Given your approach, the OP could easily spend twice that on legal counsel and still have the lien foreclosure for unpaid MFs.

Having an advocate in your corner is one thing, burying your head in the sand is another. I never would advise anyone to bury their head in the sand and hope that it all goes away.

The OP has stated the MFs weren’t paid and they were willing to risk the foreclosure. Ok. Now that process has commenced. Of course any wording on notices will say it’s an attempt to collect a debt. That’s mandatory wording under the FDCPA. That doesn’t mean that some resolution cannot still be made. When you push to “fight like hell” and “make them jump through every hoop”, you’re driving up the attorney fees incurred by the HOA. Those costs will be shifted to the debtor when possible. Why advocate for increasing the debt? There is absolutely nothing wrong with attempting to resolve the matter. No rights are lost.

What I originally said:

I am not a lawyer, nor am I giving legal advice, but if it were me, I would contact my family lawyer to recommend a consumer debt attorney to protect me from a judgment. If they just take the deed, that is a win.

Take that as: Negotiated "Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure" and avoid a judgment (protect) as once a judgment is granted, then it can be monetized through a debtor review. I would reach an out of court settlement rather than have a judgment against me.

You took that as a knock down court fight. That could not be more wrong. In this case, they would lose in court. What I would want to do (IF the HOA was determined to pursue a judicial foreclosure) is to negotiate the best deal for me which includes getting rid of the deed.

In that light, "I would MAKE them jump through EVERY hoop, DOT every i and CROSS every t. That is my legal right. I don't have to make it easy for them." to avoid a judgment. That is why I would hire a professional to advise me. In my experience, you usually get a better deal when you are a porcupine rather than a fluffy bunny.

Here is the big unknown:

The BIG question here, is the Orange Lake HOA going to pursue a trustee foreclosure procedure or a judicial foreclosure procedure? IDK how to tell the difference. You are correct, if it is a trustee foreclosure, but it appears that they have the choice and that they CAN choose the judicial foreclosure option from the start. That's why I suggested hiring a lawyer to figure it out so that you can make an informed decision. If the HOA decides to jump directly to the judicial foreclosure, then I would want a counselor to help negotiate a settlement.

This is the waiting game.

If there is a trustee foreclosure, then the matter is done. There may be a hit on the credit report and possibly a 1099 on the debt.

If there is a judicial foreclosure with damages, then that's when the negotiations begin.

 

[Snazzylass]

Idk why you’re responding to me. I suggested the OP reach out to see if the HOA would take a deed in lieu at the beginning of her post.

I also indicated that the HOA isn’t now going to call the OP and see if they can amicably resolve. It’s a notice of foreclosure lien that was sent. The HOA is simply jumping through the legal hoops it must in order to pursue the unpaid MFs.

My apologies! Certainly not my intension

 

[LeslieDet]

My apologies! Certainly not my intension

No apologies needed. Just wanted you to know I’m not the OP.

It seems others on this feed do not grasp the non-payment has led to a lien notice and the intent to foreclose on that lien. The credit score isn’t going to be hit until the non-judicial foreclosure proceeds. Once it’s a done deal, the impact will then be known.

As I’ve said, folks on TUG seem to routinely give the advice to just let the HOA foreclose when the owner doesn’t want to pay the MFs. That’s what this HOA is doing. There are always consequences of taking that approach. The OP said they were willing to risk the foreclosure, so they need to be willing to accept the consequences of that decision.