Vistana Now Part of Marriott Vacations Worldwide

[DannyTS]

Marriott for years has owned property in Cancun. The vacant land beside Live Aqua (which is beside Lagunamar) was slated for a MVCI property that never saw the light of day. Not sure what will happen with that land, they have been trying to sell it for many years, perhaps a decade now. I suspect that is still the plan.

The only real way that they have to integrate the Mexico properties (and Aventuras) in to the DC program is through the DC exchange program. Perhaps they will offer some method to enroll those weeks or Flex points in to the DC program. We will have to wait and see.

Concerning the land that MVC owns in Cancun, you seem to suggest that it was not developed because they were no longer interested in the location.


That may be the case or it may be because of rules and regulations or it may be the economics of that spot. When i look at the lot that MVC owns (the reddish area below), it seems pretty small in comparison with Lagunamar (blueish) , maybe one third of the square footage or less.


People with knowledge about TS sales can give a better opinion than me, but I suspect that setting up a sales force for just a relatively small place down in Mexico might have not been the most economical route for MVC. Size matters, developers add properties in the same places even if it may not be preferred by owners who may want to travel to different locations.


Building something from scratch and integrating a gorgeous resort like Lagunamar are 2 very different stories.

 

[okwiater]

^^ Man, Lagunamar just looks awesome, even from a satellite.

 

[blondietink]

That lot there is just a great big hole in the ground now and has been for several years.
I received the email detailing the MVC access for us Vistana members and clicked on the link in my Dashboard, but all that it lists are Sheraton and Westin properties. There is no listing on Marriott Vacation clubs that will be giving the discount. I have tried to find out where the MVC's are located, but cannot come up with anything on the Marriott site. How exactly do I access the MVC resorts?

 

[dioxide45]

Concerning the land that MVC owns in Cancun, you seem to suggest that it was not developed because they were no longer interested in the location.


That may be the case or it may be because of rules and regulations or it may be the economics of that spot. When i look at the lot that MVC owns (the reddish area below), it seems pretty small in comparison with Lagunamar (blueish) , maybe one third of the square footage or less.


People with knowledge about TS sales can give a better opinion than me, but I suspect that setting up a sales force for just a relatively small place down in Mexico might have not been the most economical route for MVC. Size matters, developers add properties in the same places even if it may not be preferred by owners who may want to travel to different locations.


Building something from scratch and integrating a gorgeous resort like Lagunamar are 2 very different stories.






View attachment 8121

I suspect there were many factors that led to the land in Cancun not being developed. THe first probably being the big market crash in 2008. As you said, it likely wasn't cost effective to build there and stand up a sales force. However, they did have a small sales office at either Casa Magna or the JW Marriott. You could take timeshare presentations there, perhaps you still can. The land is small, but not much smaller than the land that Live Aqua sits on. I agree though, it is far easier to integrate an existing property in to the system than build from the ground up.

 

[Helios]

All I can say, is Marriott better not mess with the beds at Vistana timeshares. We are staying at the Aruba Surf Club right now and the beds are so hard, they are horrible. We stayed a night at Vistana Villages before this and they were great. The hardness of the new beds is one reason we would stop going to Marriott timeshares, and if that happens it means it would be time to sell.

Interesting. YMMV. I have a Sleep Number Bed with adjustable positions and my number is 100. My wife does not get me. Her number is 45, I think.

 

[DannyTS]

out of curiosity, i used the google map feature to measure the area:
237000 sqf lot MVC
347000 sqf Live Aqua
800100 sqf Westin Lagunamar
Of course this is not very accurate but it gives a good indication. The MVC land is less than 70% of the Live Aqua hotel and less than 30% of the land Lagunamar sits on. Depending on the regulations (say distance from the road, parking, access etc) you may end up with less than 50% useful area to build.
In any case, IMO the Mexican resorts including Westin Lagunamar are a great complement to the MVC portfolio.

 

[dioxide45]

out of curiosity, i used the google map feature to measure the area:
237000 sqf lot MVC
347000 sqf Live Aqua
800100 sqf Westin Lagunamar
Of course this is not very accurate but it gives a good indication. The MVC land is less than 70% of the Live Aqua hotel and less than 30% of the land Lagunamar sits on. Depending on the regulations (say distance from the road, parking, access etc) you may end up with less than 50% useful area to build.
In any case, IMO the Mexican resorts including Westin Lagunamar are a great complement to the MVC portfolio.

Could very well be the reason and also a big reason they seem to be having so much trouble selling it.

 

[pacman777]

i am not sure that this is the slideshow mentioned by the CEO, slide 9 refers to new destinations for MVC owners and not to cost synergies. I am interested in that slide because i own at Westin Lagunamar in Cancun and the MVC leadership seems to be particularly interested in the Mexican Vistana resorts. Common sense tells me that if they were to make a selective offer to Vistana owners, places where MVC does not have presence would be included.

So other than buying up resale Westin Lagunamar resale units as quick as possible, any other speculation or hypotheses on how we may be able to take advantage of all the upcoming change that may be coming for us Vistana timeshare owners? Wonder if resale owners of other VOLUNTARY resorts will be able to benefit by buying into the Club points program at a nominal fee.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

So other than buying up resale Westin Lagunamar resale units as quick as possible, any other speculation or hypotheses on how we may be able to take advantage of all the upcoming change that may be coming for us Vistana timeshare owners? Wonder if resale owners of other VOLUNTARY resorts will be able to benefit by buying into the Club points program at a nominal fee.

I dont think it will be a nominal fee. We were told that they dont want to anger current Marriott owners by offering us better deals than Marriott owners especially in regards to resale and the 2010 cut off date. But you never know.

 

[DannyTS]

I dont think it will be a nominal fee. We were told that they dont want to anger current Marriott owners by offering us better deals than Marriott owners especially in regards to resale and the 2010 cut off date. But you never know.

The statement sounds more like what the sales person wanted to believe rather than what a multi billion dollar company would do for a fast integration. Marriott has much more to gain from doing this fast rather than at a snail pace through the retail sales department.

 

[dioxide45]

The statement sounds more like what the sales person wanted to believe rather than what a multi billion dollar company would do for a fast integration. Marriott has much more to gain from doing this fast rather than at a snail pace through the retail sales department.

I guess the question is, what is a "nominal" fee? For us back in 2010, that nominal fee was $1495/$1995 for external buyers or $595/$695 internal. Today I think that fee to enroll is $2295. I wouldn't expect the nominal fee to be any less than it was back in 2010.

 

[mjm1]

I guess the question is what is a "nominal" fee. For us back in 2010, that nominal fee was $1495/$1995 for external buyers or $595/$695 internal. Today I think that fee to enroll is $2295. I wouldn't expect the nominal fee to be any less than it was back in 2010.

I agree with dioxide45. This would be a reasonable approach. Marriott should want as much access to new customers to buy DC points. A relatively small fee like this would get them enrolled, give them access to the system, and then try to sell points to them. However, One nice feature of the Marriott system is that an enrolled owner can transfer/rent points to/from other enrolled owners, one doesn’t have to buy more points.

Best regards.

Mike

 

[SeattleJohn2]

So other than buying up resale Westin Lagunamar resale units as quick as possible, any other speculation or hypotheses on how we may be able to take advantage of all the upcoming change that may be coming for us Vistana timeshare owners? Wonder if resale owners of other VOLUNTARY resorts will be able to benefit by buying into the Club points program at a nominal fee.

Interestingly when we did our owner's update last week at SVV they offered to buy our 67k studio for what we paid for it if we bought into the Flex program. We bought it retail so we could pull our resale 148k Kierland into the system. They had zero interest in making an offer for our Kierland property.

We are not interested in the Flex program so politely declined. Maybe just a coincidence.

 

[DannyTS]

I agree with dioxide45. This would be a reasonable approach. Marriott should want as much access to new customers to buy DC points. A relatively small fee like this would get them enrolled, give them access to the system, and then try to sell points to them. However, One nice feature of the Marriott system is that an enrolled owner can transfer/rent points to/from other enrolled owners, one doesn’t have to buy more points.

Best regards.

Mike

My bet is that MVC will try to get as many enrollments as possible. There are 250,000 Vistana and Hyatt owners, a $2,295 enrollment fee means a $562,500,000 potential revenue for Marriott. If they allow post 2010 Marriott owners as well for a limited time, it could mean more than 1 billion in potential revenue. This is not pocket change. You have to add that Marriott makes a lot of money annually through "skimming" and club fees (that the voluntary Vistana owners are currently not paying) so they have all the reasons to have as many people as possible in the club.


Sorry for the sales people, they may have to swallow and move on. It is not going to be bad for them though, they will be able to sell a program with 150 high end resorts (would you rather sell that or Flex?). Also, since these enrollments would be limited in time, the sales teams will be able to go back to normal sales and re-conversion after a while.

 

[Maui_ed]

My bet is that MVC will try to get as many enrollments as possible. There are 250,000 Vistana and Hyatt owners, a $2,295 enrollment fee means a $562,500,000 potential revenue for Marriott. If they allow post 2010 Marriott owners as well for a limited time, it could mean more than 1 billion in potential revenue. This is not pocket change. You have to add that Marriott makes a lot of money annually through "skimming" and club fees (that the voluntary Vistana owners are currently not paying) so they have all the reasons to have as many people as possible in the club.


Sorry for the sales people, they may have to swallow and move on. It is not going to be bad for them though, they will be able to sell a program with 150 high end resorts (would you rather sell that or Flex?). Also, since these enrollments would be limited in time, the sales teams will be able to go back to normal sales and re-conversion after a while.

A combined pool of properties would be great, but that is all speculation. I look forward to the date when Marriott announces exactly what that will look like.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

My bet is that MVC will try to get as many enrollments as possible. There are 250,000 Vistana and Hyatt owners, a $2,295 enrollment fee means a $562,500,000 potential revenue for Marriott. If they allow post 2010 Marriott owners as well for a limited time, it could mean more than 1 billion in potential revenue. This is not pocket change. You have to add that Marriott makes a lot of money annually through "skimming" and club fees (that the voluntary Vistana owners are currently not paying) so they have all the reasons to have as many people as possible in the club.

A fraction will enroll at $2,295; they will have to lower the price significantly to attract more. The people who will pay will be the mid-level traders (low-end too cheap) and not the premium owners who they want to attract to the trust. Premium property owners buy to use their property or will rent. When they do exchange they can already exchange to other Vistana with staroptions, and use II getaways and exchanges. Sure it would be nice to get access to Marriott and Hyatt but it would have to be free or low cost to participate because they already can trade in these resorts via II or they can rent it out and use the money to rent elsewhere. If the benefit can be passed on to resale buyers of the property, then they would be more likely to bite because that would add value.

 

[dioxide45]

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A fraction will enroll at $2,295; they will have to lower the price to attract more. The people who will pay will be the mid-level traders (low-end too cheap) and not the premium owners who they want to attract to the trust. Premium property owners buy to use their property or will rent. When they do exchange they can already exchange to other Vistana with staroptions, and use II getaways and exchanges. Sure it would be nice but it would have to be free or low cost to participate. If the benefit can be passed on to resale buyers of the property, then they would be more likely to bite.

Correct, they won't get anywhere close to 100% enrollment. Probably less than 30% in the first year.

 

[DannyTS]

A fraction will enroll at $2,295; they will have to lower the price significantly to attract more. The people who will pay will be the mid-level traders (low-end too cheap) and not the premium owners who they want to attract to the trust. Premium property owners buy to use their property or will rent. When they do exchange they can already exchange to other Vistana with staroptions, and use II getaways and exchanges. Sure it would be nice to get access to Marriott and Hyatt but it would have to be free or low cost to participate because they already can trade in these resorts via II or they can rent it out and use the money to rent elsewhere. If the benefit can be passed on to resale buyers of the property, then they would be more likely to bite because that would add value.

you are making an excellent point

 

[pacman777]

Any Marriott owners that went through the open enrollment option period when it was offered know if there was a maximum enrollment fee (cap) to enroll existing owned units. For example if I own 20 units were all of them subject to an enrollment fee or would they cap it and let you still enroll everything you owned. Also assuming that enrolling your unit in DC has no increase in value if you decide to sell it later on since it wouldn’t transfer to a resale buyer?

 

[dioxide45]

Any Marriott owners that went through the open enrollment option period when it was offered know if there was a maximum enrollment fee (cap) to enroll existing owned units. For example if I own 20 units were all of them subject to an enrollment fee or would they cap it and let you still enroll everything you owned. Also assuming that enrolling your unit in DC has no increase in value if you decide to sell it later on since it wouldn’t transfer to a resale buyer?

Two or more weeks had the higher fee. There was no cap as long as the weeks were eligible.

 

[controller1]

Two or more weeks had the higher fee. There was no cap as long as the weeks were eligible.

So the higher fee would cover all eligible weeks for the owner with no additional fee per week?

 

[dioxide45]

So the higher fee would cover all eligible weeks for the owner with no additional fee per week?

Correct, no additional fee per week. The fees were as follows;

Internal Purchase
1 Week - $595
2 or more weeks - $695

External Purchase (Resale)
1 Week - $1,495
2 or more weeks - $1,995

The new fee I think is $2,295 for one or more weeks. Others have reported that when they brought in the European and Asian weeks, that they were able to enroll those for no additional costs as long as they had already paid the maximum fee for two or more weeks. So if they ever allow enrollment of Westin and Sheraton weeks, it is possible that Marriott owners could enroll them for no additional cost.

 

[pacman777]

Based on your example from the past, an owner with 20 resale weeks would pay a flat $1,995 to enroll all 20 weeks? It is not $1,995 per week ownership?

 

[dioxide45]

Based on your example from the past, an owner with 20 resale weeks would pay a flat $1,995 to enroll all 20 weeks? It is not $1,995 per week ownership?

Correct, $1995 for all the weeks, not for each week.

 

[dsmrp]

Correct, no additional fee per week.
...

The new fee I think is $2,295 for one or more weeks. Others have reported that when they brought in the European and Asian weeks, that they were able to enroll those for no additional costs as long as they had already paid the maximum fee for two or more weeks. So if they ever allow enrollment of Westin and Sheraton weeks, it is possible that Marriott owners could enroll them for no additional cost.

Hmm, I wonder what Marriott would do for those who have both Vistana(Westin & Sheraton) and Hyatt weeks ??
Hopefully by the time they got around to potentially integrating Hyatt, treat the Hyatt week the same as Marriott + Westin, Sheraton weeks.