Vistana into Marriott II exchanges cost now $154

[remowidget]

I did not receive this email (or perhaps lost in the inbox mire). I own both Marriot (MCV) and Vistana (SDO) resale units. So wonder what my priority will be?

I have been trying to trade into a Palm Springs unit with a SDO large 1bdrm for spring break. The request has been ongoing for about 6 months and only one call about a studio (need 1 or 2 bdrm).

You can see the email and FAQ on your Vistana dashboard.

It's my understanding, if you are trading VSE to VSE, the only people in front of you are other VSE owners that requested before you. Same with Marriott. If you are trading VSE to Marriott, Mariott owners have first priority ahead of VSE and vice versa.

I think the wrench in the works if a Marriott or VSE owner manually searches for your week before II searches, you'll miss out.

If anyone sees an error in my understanding, please let me know. I'm really trying to learn.

 

[remowidget]

I could always Exchange my Marriott-Units to other Marriott-Units for $0
I can now Exchange my Marriott-Units TO Vistana-Units for $0
However, as a Vistana-Owner I have to pay $154 to exchange into other Vistana-Units.

Yesterday, II introduced 50%-Off Platinum-Membership for Marriott-Owners but not for Vistana-Owners. I hope this will change over time.

Are you sure Marriot to VSE is free? I've heard others say it is $154 as well. From what I can tell, Marriott to Marriott is free through II, because that is how they have to trade to other Marriott properties. With VSE, we simply book through VSE for whatever VSE property we want.

I just logged into my II account and it says Platinum ii is 50% off for me as a VSE owner for $139 a year.

 

[DannyTS]

Yesterday, II introduced 50%-Off Platinum-Membership for Marriott-Owners but not for Vistana-Owners. I hope this will change over time.

Is the 50% off for all the Marriott owners or just for the MVC members?

 

[dioxide45]

Are you sure Marriot to VSE is free? I've heard others say it is $154 as well. From what I can tell, Marriott to Marriott is free through II, because that is how they have to trade to other Marriott properties. With VSE, we simply book through VSE for whatever VSE property we want.

I just logged into my II account and it says Platinum ii is 50% off for me as a VSE owner for $139 a year.

I have done trade tests and I can confirm that Marriott to Vistana is exchange fee is $0 for Marriott enrolled owners.

Per the Marriott announcement;

Resorts for Less

With an Interval International® Internal Exchange, you can now stay at available Westin® Vacation Club and Sheraton®Vacation Club resorts (which previously required an External Exchange fee) and save. That gives you 75+ distinctive vacation resorts to choose from — all using what you already own and covered in your Club Dues.

MORE SAVINGS

Through Interval International, you can enjoy US$209* exchange fee savings for exchanges to Westin Vacation Club and Sheraton Vacation Club resorts.

I don't know now how much the Marriott to Marriott exchange fee is for non-enrolled Marriott owners. Not sure if unenrolled owners received a similar announcement? Can they now trade Marriott to Vistana for the same discounted fee that they can trade Marriott to Marriott?

Enrolled owners have always had a $0 Marriott to Marriott exhcnage fee. For Vistana, owners in VSN have always had a discounted exchange fee. The annual VSN fee has never included free II exchanges, but rather just discounted fee. Kind of like unenrolled Marriott owners. Marriott here is just extending already existing benefits to exchanges in to the other resorts under the Marriott, Sheraton and Vistana brand.

 

[MICROZE]

Are you sure Marriot to VSE is free? I've heard others say it is $154 as well. From what I can tell, Marriott to Marriott is free through II, because that is how they have to trade to other Marriott properties. With VSE, we simply book through VSE for whatever VSE property we want.

I just logged into my II account and it says Platinum ii is 50% off for me as a VSE owner for $139 a year.

Reconfirming. After multiple tests.
My Marriott-Account [DCP-ENROLLED] shows $0 for M-M AND $0 for M-V.
My Vistana-Account shows $154 for V-M AND $154 for V-V.

I believe Marriott [NON DCP-ENROLLED] paid $154 for M-M AND now pay $154 for M-V identical to Vistana-Owners fees.

We always Lock-Off and deposit our 2BR-LO as Studio + 1BR and pay for E-Plus + Size-Upgrade fees to vacation in 2BR-Units getting us 2 x 2BR-Weeks for 1 x 2BR-Week.
Given the high-fees to exchange via II using my Vistana-Account I choose to not deposit my Vistana-Weeks with II and only use II for my Marriott-Weeks.

Based on below comparisons
My $1600-MF Marriott incurs a 15.41% [$246] II-Overhead.
My $1500-MF Vistana incurs a 52.87% [$793] II-Overhead.

The Vistana overhead is very high especially since this is a Low-MF resort.
For owners with other resorts, that have lower MF [e.g. $800/Year] this II-Overhead will be 100% or double their cost.

See comparisons below.

 

[remowidget]

Reconfirming. After multiple tests.
My Marriott-Account [DCP-ENROLLED] shows $0 for M-M AND $0 for M-V.
My Vistana-Account shows $154 for V-M AND $154 for V-V.

I believe Marriott [NON DCP-ENROLLED] paid $154 for M-M AND now pay $154 for M-V identical to Vistana-Owners fees.

We always Lock-Off and deposit our 2BR-LO as Studio + 1BR and pay for E-Plus + Size-Upgrade fees to vacation in 2BR-Units getting us 2 x 2BR-Weeks for 1 x 2BR-Week.
Given the high-fees to exchange via II using my Vistana-Account I choose to not deposit my Vistana-Weeks with II and only use II for my Marriott-Weeks.

Based on below comparisons
My $1600-MF Marriott incurs a 15.41% [$246] II-Overhead.
My $1500-MF Vistana incurs a 56.80% [$852] II-Overhead.

The Vistana overhead is very high especially since this is a Low-MF resort.
For owners with other resorts, that have lower MF [e.g. $800/Year] this II-Overhead will be 100% or double their cost.

See comparisons below.
View attachment 17027View attachment 17028

I really appreciate your breakdown. I think some of your chart is outdated, maybe nitpicky as the gist is awesome. However, I am really trying to understand for my situation as a Westin Lagunamar owner.

You included the Platinum Upgrade fees for this. I dont see the advantage to upgrading to platinum just to trade. Is there an advantage, or is this just an optional expense if I was only trading VSE to MVC? Does being II Platinum change my numbers below?

In my tests, II has a 2 bedroom upgrade fee of $99 for both a studio and a 1 bedroom.

What I see for a trade from one of my studios to a 2 bedroom MVC:
$675 Maintenance ( using your number)
$0 Platinum upgrade as I just have the standard membership
$154 exchange Fee
$99 room size Fee
$59 II plus fee
‐------
$987 Total for a Two bedroom MVC or $141 a night.

For me though, we rarely pay dollars for a hotel or villa, as we get quite a few Bonvoy points from our credit cards and have three platinum weeks in VSE. So I look at it more like just the trade fees as the cost of staying in MVC rather than staying with our VSE resorts. Thinking this way, it will cost us $312/week or $44.57/night to choose to stay in a two bedroom MVC rather than our studio in VSE.

Please let me know where I am wrong in any of this.

 

[CPNY]

I could always Exchange my Marriott-Units to other Marriott-Units for $0
I can now Exchange my Marriott-Units TO Vistana-Units for $0
However, as a Vistana-Owner I have to pay $154 to exchange into other Vistana-Units.

Yesterday, II introduced 50%-Off Platinum-Membership for Marriott-Owners but not for Vistana-Owners. I hope this will change over time.

Hmm, seems like MVC treating Vistana owners like SH you know the rest.... no wonder why most vistana owners hate the face MVC bought us. There were reasons why we didn’t buy into MVC years ago. Oh well

 

[remowidget]

Hmm, seems like MVC treating Vistana owners like SH you know the rest.... no wonder why most vistana owners hate the face MVC bought us. There were reasons why we didn’t buy into MVC years ago. Oh well

I don't see it that way. MVC owners that own weeks rather than points have to go through Interval to go to another resort besides the one they own. It's always been free for them to trade to other MVC resorts through II.

What we have with VSE is awesome. We can trade internally for any of our resorts for free at 8 months.

Now VSE and MVC owners get a huge advantage in trading into MVC or VSE properties through II over any other owners in II. Additionaly you can see my numbers above, but the end result is we can trade a studio for a two bedroom in either system for about $45 a night, assuming my numbers are correct. That's awesome. So what if Marriott owners get a slightly better deal, it's better to focus on what we get than worry about what our neighbors get.

 

[CPNY]

I

I don't see it that way. MVC owners that own weeks rather than points have to go through Interval to go to another resort besides the one they own. It's always been free for them to trade to other MVC resorts through II.

What we have with VSE is awesome. We can trade internally for any of our resorts for free at 8 months.

Now VSE and MVC owners get a huge advantage in trading into MVC or VSE properties through II over any other owners in II. Additionaly you can see my numbers above, but the end result is we can trade a studio for a two bedroom in either system for about $45 a night, assuming my numbers are correct. That's awesome. So what if Marriott owners get a slightly better deal, it's better to focus on what we get than worry about what our neighbors get.

I guess I see your point. But MVC trading into VSE for free while VSE paying for MVC isn’t exactly advantageous.

 

[NiteMaire]

I believe Marriott [NON DCP-ENROLLED] paid $154 for M-M AND now pay $154 for M-V identical to Vistana-Owners fees.

Correct. I own a resale Marriott (non-enrolled) and a resale Vistana (non-qualified). My fees are exactly the same for M-V and V-M exchanges.

Hmm, seems like MVC treating Vistana owners like SH you know the rest.... no wonder why most vistana owners hate the face MVC bought us. There were reasons why we didn’t buy into MVC years ago. Oh well

I don't feel the same...but it's probably because I own non-enrolled and non-qualified resale units. The new "perk" gives me greater ability to trade for either system, especially since I own one in each system. On a positive note for LO Vistana owners and as I understand it, resale Vistana LO have less overhead than resale Marriott LO ($90ish Marriott LO fee) when you LO. I'm open to being wrong on this point since I don't own a LO Vistana unit.

 

[CPNY]

Correct. I own a resale Marriott (non-enrolled) and a resale Vistana (non-qualified). My fees are exactly the same for M-V and V-M exchanges.

I don't feel the same...but it's probably because I own non-enrolled and non-qualified resale units. The new "perk" gives me greater ability to trade for either system, especially since I own one in each system. On a positive note for LO Vistana owners and as I understand it, resale Vistana LO have less overhead than resale Marriott LO ($90ish Marriott LO fee) when you LO. I'm open to being wrong on this point since I don't own a LO Vistana unit.

Ok now I feel better haha. I am fine with the exchange rate since I don’t exchange much. I do own a lockout but I’m selling it. It’s a mandatory deed and will prob be SOL if a new program comes out and a LO in a mandatory orlando is a winner. But, I have too many mandatory resorts for my use and I want an RCI points trader.

 

[remowidget]

I

I guess I see your point. But MVC trading into VSE for free while VSE paying for MVC isn’t exactly advantageous.

It will have an impact on the amount of VSE trading though II. I hear all the time that people don't want to pay more, me included. If they really wanted us to do it more, they would have made if free too. Still I see it as something good for me should I choose to use it. Something rare in our systems as the years go buy.

 

[CPNY]

It will have an impact on the amount of VSE trading though II. I hear all the time that people don't want to pay more, me included. If they really wanted us to do it more, they would have made if free too. Still I see it as something good for me should I choose to use it. Something rare in our systems as the years go buy.

Yeah, I guess if I see a location vistana isn’t in and want to go there I’ll pay, Like Aruba. I will not exchange into MVC when I can go to a Westin in a similar location.

 

[pchung6]

The Vistana overhead is very high especially since this is a Low-MF resort.
For owners with other resorts, that have lower MF [e.g. $800/Year] this II-Overhead will be 100% or double their cost.

See comparisons below.
View attachment 17027View attachment 17028

This is very nice chart but somehow very misleading. This only points out good half of M weeks and ignore bad half. It will create a lot unneccesary arguments and debates here, I highly suggest not to do this anymore.

How can you compare Marriott II PLAT membership at 50% vs Vistana PLAT with 0% discount? I just renewed 2 years PLAT 50% off for my Vistana weeks.

Also, comparing M-M for free exchange vs Vistana-Others for $209, that's totally bs. Vistana has SOs, that you can easily book a good week internally. M can also exchange internally, but the ratio is not good, that's why a lot M owners will go II route.

II Upgrade fee, a lot of V weeks can split into 2 1 brs, but in the example it's studio and 1 br.

Also EPlus fee still exist if M owners exchange outside of M or V exchange.

 

[dioxide45]

I

Hmm, seems like MVC treating Vistana owners like SH you know the rest.... no wonder why most vistana owners hate the face MVC bought us. There were reasons why we didn’t buy into MVC years ago. Oh well

I suspect they really want to keep the status quo. Vistana owners don't get free trades through II now with Vistana to Vistana trades in II, why give them that for free all of a sudden and lose the revenue. Plus it will be a carrot to offer people in the future to upgrade/enroll in to whatever new system they may develop.

 

[dioxide45]

This is very nice chart but somehow very misleading. This only points out good half of M weeks and ignore bad half. It will create a lot unneccesary arguments and debates here, I highly suggest not to do this anymore.

How can you compare Marriott II PLAT membership at 50% vs Vistana PLAT with 0% discount? I just renewed 2 years PLAT 50% off for my Vistana weeks.

Also, comparing M-M for free exchange vs Vistana-Others for $209, that's totally bs. Vistana has SOs, that you can easily book a good week internally. M can also exchange internally, but the ratio is not good, that's why a lot M owners will go II route.

II Upgrade fee, a lot of V weeks can split into 2 1 brs, but in the example it's studio and 1 br.

Also EPlus fee still exist if M owners exchange outside of M or V exchange.

The chart really only applies to voluntary Vistana owners that can't trade internally within VSN. For those in VSN, the numbers probably line up about the same.

 

[pchung6]

The chart really only applies to voluntary Vistana owners that can't trade internally within VSN. For those in VSN, the numbers probably line up about the same.

If that is the case, he should only use non-enrolled Marriott week for comparison to voluntary Vistana week.

It's not correct to compare enrolled Marriott week to voluntary Vistana week in my opinion.

 

[NiteMaire]

If that is the case, he should only use non-enrolled Marriott week for comparison to voluntary Vistana week.

It's not correct to compare enrolled Marriott week to voluntary Vistana week in my opinion.

I did that in my post above. Same price if looking at non-enrolled Marriott and non-qualified/voluntary Vistana. Vistana comes out less for LOs since there is no LO fee.

 

[dioxide45]

If that is the case, he should only use non-enrolled Marriott week for comparison to voluntary Vistana week.

It's not correct to compare enrolled Marriott week to voluntary Vistana week in my opinion.

I would agree. Really the chart should contain all four options to see all the numbers.

• Enrolled Marriott Week
• Unenrolled Marriott Week
• VSN Week
• Voluntary Vistana Week

 

[MICROZE]

I don't see it that way. MVC owners that own weeks rather than points have to go through Interval to go to another resort besides the one they own. It's always been free for them to trade to other MVC resorts through II.

What we have with VSE is awesome. We can trade internally for any of our resorts for free at 8 months.

Now VSE and MVC owners get a huge advantage in trading into MVC or VSE properties through II over any other owners in II. Additionaly you can see my numbers above, but the end result is we can trade a studio for a two bedroom in either system for about $45 a night, assuming my numbers are correct. That's awesome. So what if Marriott owners get a slightly better deal, it's better to focus on what we get than worry about what our neighbors get.

My example was to maximize value [Lowest Cost/Night].
To accomplish Lowest-Cost/Night my example leveraged a 2BR-Lock-Off [7-Nights] into 2 x 2BR-Units [14-Nights].
In your numbers you assume a Baisc-Membership to save on Platinum-Membership which is fine.

My Tables reflected the cost of depositing 1 x 2BR-LO with Interval and getting 2 x 2BR-Weeks of Vacation.
The comparison I sought to make was that Marriott-Owners pay II-Fees of $17.57/Night [$246/14-Nights] while Vistana-Owners pay II-Fees of $52.42/Night [$734/14-Nights].
Each 2BR-Marriott-Deposit costs me $246 in additional II-Fees while each 2BR-Vistana-Deposit costs me an additional $734 in II-Fees. This is not a slightly better deal.

My example used $209/Exchange so that I could widen my net [Vistana-Choices are very limited] and include Hyatt's and other Elite-Resorts.
I chose to pay $209 for my Vistana-Account as going from $154 to $209 was better than going from $0 to $209 with Marriott.

Here is the comparison of WLR [With II-Basic $734] compared to WLR [With II-Platinum $793]. These II-Fees are close to 50% of my WLR-MF.

 

[MICROZE]

Correct. I own a resale Marriott (non-enrolled) and a resale Vistana (non-qualified). My fees are exactly the same for M-V and V-M exchanges.

I don't feel the same...but it's probably because I own non-enrolled and non-qualified resale units. The new "perk" gives me greater ability to trade for either system, especially since I own one in each system. On a positive note for LO Vistana owners and as I understand it, resale Vistana LO have less overhead than resale Marriott LO ($90ish Marriott LO fee) when you LO. I'm open to being wrong on this point since I don't own a LO Vistana unit.

Good point on the Lock-Off fees.
Since both of my ownerships are Enrolled I haven't kept track as I don't pay Lock-Off fees for either.
You are most likely right about the Vistana-Owners paying less [possibly zero] while Marriott Non-Enrolled owners have to pay possibly $90 in Lock-Off fees.

 

[remowidget]

My example was to maximize value [Lowest Cost/Night].
To accomplish Lowest-Cost/Night my example leveraged a 2BR-Lock-Off [7-Nights] into 2 x 2BR-Units [14-Nights].
In your numbers you assume a Baisc-Membership to save on Platinum-Membership which is fine.
However, with Intervals Size-Upgrade model you have to pay for each Step-Up in size.
Thus 1BR -> 2BR would be 1-Step-Up or $99.
Studio -> 2BR would be 2 x Steps-Up or $198.

My Tables reflected the cost of depositing 1 x 2BR-LO with Interval and getting 2 x 2BR-Weeks of Vcation.
The comparison I sought to make was that Marriott-Owners pay II-Fees of $17.57/Night [$246/14-Nights] while Vistana-Owners pay II-Fees of $60.85/Night [$852/14-Nights].
Each 2BR-Marriott Deposit costs me $246 in additional II-Fees while each 2BR-Vistana Deposit costs me an additional $850 in II-Fees. This is not a slightly better deal.

My example used $209/Exchange so that I could widen my net [Vistana-Choices are very limited] and include Hyatt's and other Elite-Resorts.
I chose to pay $209 for my Vistana-Account as going from $154 to $209 was better than going from $0 to $209 with Marriott.

Here is the comparison of WLR [With II-Basic $833] compared to WLR [With II-Platinum $852]. These II-Fees are over 50% of my WLR-MF.
View attachment 17051View attachment 17052

So, Platinum II gives lower upgrade fees? When I trade a Lagunamar studio, it offers me 2 bedrooms for $99. See attachment.

 

[MICROZE]

I would agree. Really the chart should contain all four options to see all the numbers.

• Enrolled Marriott Week
• Unenrolled Marriott Week
• VSN Week
• Voluntary Vistana Week

The charts were a reflection of what I own [Marriott-Enrolled + Vistana-Enrolled] and still choose to exchange via INTERVAL to maximize 7-Nights for 14-Nights.
Since Marriott-Enrolled charged me $0 for Exchanges I choose to not include Non-M and not pay for Non-M-Resorts [use Vistana for Other-Resorts] and thus NO E-Plus.
Since Vistana-Enrolled charged me $154 for Other V-Resorts [very few choices] I choose to pay a little more $209 and include every option available [broaden my net].

Agree that both Marriott and Vistana provide me with Internal-Exchanges.
Marriott is not good value exchanging internally due to the high Points-Required, while Vistana affords me very few choices in very limited locations.

The point I was trying to make is not whether Marriott is better or Vistana is worse.
My objective was to show how much more expensive it is to exchange via INTERVAL with my Vistana-Units.

God point about many Vistana 2BR-Lock-Offs into 1BR + 1BR which is awesome [Better Trade-Value]. We own 5-EY x 2BR-WKV PLAT+ Units and stopped depositing them with INTERVAL due to the steep II-Fees.

 

[MICROZE]

So, Platinum II gives lower upgrade fees? When I trade a Lagunamar studio, it offers me 2 bedrooms for $99. See attachment.

Good catch.
Haven't exchanged WLR via II in a few years.
Just verified [used to be 2 x Steps-Up] is now One-Step.
Updated my last post to reflect One-Step.

 

[pchung6]

I've been using my 1 br SBP and 1 SVV for II exchange for many years. I found usually using Vistana week is cheaper than my non-enrolled Marriott week for Interval exchange. I usually to get my II exchange for around $700 in the past with Vistana week. Sorry I'm not as excel savy as Microze is, but here is my breakdown:

For my SBP Gold Plus week:
MF for 1 Br SBP: $430
Interval Exchange Fee: $154
Upgrade Fee: $59 (assuming I get 2 br)
Interval Platinum: $35 (assuming 2 exchanges per year, that's $69.5 per year)
Eplus: $30 (assuming Eplus is purchased at 50% of my exchanges, so it is 1 Eplus per year. I choose my exchange carefully usually to avoid Eplus Fee)
Total: $708

For my SVV Platinum week:
MF for 1 Br SVV: $560
Interval Exchange Fee: $154
Upgrade Fee: $59 (assuming I get 2 br)
Interval Platinum: $35 (assuming 2 exchanges per year, so $69.5 per year)
Eplus: $30 (assuming Eplus is purchased at 50% of my exchanges.)
Total: $838

For my Marriott Willow Ridge Platinum Week:
MF for 2 Br MWR: $1300 (Assuming $750 for 1 Br and $550 for studio)
Lockoff Fee: $40
Interval Exchange Fee: $154
Upgrade Fee: $59 (assuming I get 2 br) for 1 Br, $118 for studio
Interval Platinum: $35 (assuming 2 exchanges per year, so $69.5 per year)
Eplus: $30 (assuming Eplus is purchased at 50% of my exchanges, so it is 1 Eplus per year.)
Total: $1,068

For my other weeks such as WKORVN, SVV 2 br mandatory weeks, Ko Olina, I don't trade these weeks since these are too valuable for Interval exchanges.