Urgent help needed - Marriott resale week through presentation [OceanWatch Ultimate Occupancy]

[Avulasai]

We bought a resale week at Marriott directly through their sales presentation as part of hybrid bundle of points plus week. We are told guaranteed ocean front but when contract papers came they read ocean view but ocean front as ultimate occupancy when available. Is that normal?

I want to rescind . But I might be getting close to the 10 day window… can I rescind online ? How do they count the 10 day mark? When they receive my letter or by the posting date of when I mailed ? Can someone advise on how to rescind Marriott contract ?

Moderator Note: [Edited to remove attachment containing personal info, at OP's request.] <--SueDonJ

 

[DanCali]

I see this is at Oceanwatch? Perhaps someone familar with the resort can comment.

However, the papers do say you will get Oceanfront "when available" - that sounds very non-committal to me. If that was a key point to your purchase decision, I'd be worried too.

If you are close to the recission window it's best to rescind first and ask questions later. The 10-day typically start from the date you signed the documents. You cannot rescind online - it has to be done by mail and you should follow the instructions in the closing documents. I would go even further and send both vis USPS certified mail and Fedex. The date you mail the documents is what matters though - and you can do that today since it's a Friday and the post office is open.

You may also want to edit your post and remove your personal info (black out) from the document you uploaded.

 

[dioxide45]

You can't rescind online, but read the contract as it may allow for email or fax. But USPS delivery is also fine. They go by the postmark date.

As for the Ultimate Occupancy, this is something somewhat unique to OceanWatch. When they didn't have the Maple and Pine buildings (garden and ocean view units) built yet, they sold some units out of the the other three buildings as garden and ocean view. Those units they sold are actually oceanside and oceanfront. So when they built Maple and Pine, they had to sell those units with oceanfront or oceanside occupancy.

 

[jme]

"Oceanview" category is what you purchased, but that is one of the two back buildings. Before construction those two buildings were sold
as "Oceanfront" because of "Ultimate Occupancy", meaning those already-constructed units existed up in the true oceanfront section, with a true oceanfront view,
and the resort needed a "true real estate entity" to place on the deed, but it was ultimately "to be located" in the back buildings, and the truth be known,
from what i understand, you are entitled only to a unit in one of the two back buildings, and that will be above the 7th floor (essentially) as the two buildings are slightly different
in what floors are Garden View (below 7th floor) and which are OceanView (above 7th floor).
Difference in buildings? One delineation is 7th floor, the other the 10th floor, but same situation as to view classification. GardenView down, OceanView up.
You will never see an oceanfront unit, imho. They sold it without an honest explanation.
Rescind and look to a new purchase that gives you what you really want. You'll get a better description from others, but this is just a brief non-detailed explanation.
There was a recent post that explained it all in great detail.
Rescinding takes a formal certified letter postmarked within the rescission dates and subject to the guidelines.
again, you'll get better explanations from others, but don't hesitate!!!!! THAT is the thing.

We have owned an Oceanview week there for 20 years...those buildings are great, but it's not oceanfront!
The prices between the OceanView and OceanFront units are very different, and that would have been your first clue.

 

[Avulasai]

"Oceanview" category is what you purchased, but that is one of the two back buildings. Before construction those two buildings were sold
as "Oceanfront" because of "Ultimate Occupancy", meaning those already-constructed units existed up in the true oceanfront section, with a true oceanfront view,
and the resort needed a "true real estate entity" to place on the deed, but it was ultimately "to be located" in the back buildings, and the truth be known,
from what i understand, you are entitled only to a unit in one of the two back buildings, and that will be above the 7th floor (essentially) as the two buildings are slightly different
in what floors are Garden View (below 7th floor) and which are OceanView (above 7th floor).
Difference in buildings? One delineation is 7th floor, the other the 10th floor, but same situation as to view classification. GardenView down, OceanView up.
You will never see an oceanfront unit, imho. They sold it without an honest explanation.
Rescind and look to a new purchase that gives you what you really want. You'll get a better description from others, but this is just a brief non-detailed explanation.
There was a recent post that explained it all in great detail.
Rescinding takes a formal certified letter postmarked within the rescission dates and subject to the guidelines.
again, you'll get better explanations from others, but don't hesitate!!!!! THAT is the thing.

We have owned an Oceanview week there for 20 years...those buildings are great, but it's not oceanfront!
The prices between the OceanView and OceanFront units are very different, and that would have been your first clue.

So a manager called who said been doing deeds for years. He is saying ours will be guaranteed oceanfront . Just says when available that’s because that’s how it’s worded. Our ultimate occupancy is ocean front but the deed is ocean view. Looks like. Did you check the screen shot I sent ? Please kindly do. Does yours said the same?

Moderator Note: [Edited to remove attachment containing personal info, at OP's request.] <--SueDonJ

 

[dioxide45]

"Oceanview" category is what you purchased, but that is one of the two back buildings. Before construction those two buildings were sold
as "Oceanfront" because of "Ultimate Occupancy", meaning those already-constructed units existed up in the true oceanfront section, with a true oceanfront view,
and the resort needed a "true real estate entity" to place on the deed, but it was ultimately "to be located" in the back buildings, and the truth be known,
from what i understand, you are entitled only to a unit in one of the two back buildings, and that will be above the 7th floor (essentially) as the two buildings are slightly different
in what floors are Garden View (below 7th floor) and which are OceanView (above 7th floor).

Marty, I think you may have these switched? The Ultimate Occupancy is "oceanfront". That means oceanfront is what the owner is guaranteed. Since they had sold one of the oceanfront units with a ocean view ultimate occupancy when only those front buildings had been built, when they built out the back buildings they had to in turn sell one of those as oceanfront Ultimate Occupancy.

In the case of the OP, the unit number (begins with 5) on the deed should be in Maple or Pine but they actually own an Oceanfront view.

 

[Avulasai]

Marty, I think you may have these switched? The Ultimate Occupancy is "oceanfront". That means oceanfront is what the owner is guaranteed. Since they had sold one of the oceanfront units with a ocean view ultimate occupancy when only those front buildings had been built, when they built out the back buildings they had to in turn sell one of those as oceanfront Ultimate Occupancy.

In the case of the OP, the unit number on the deed should be in Maple or Pine but they actually own an Oceanfront view.

This is what the Marriott sales person or his manager said. The deed is on back building but we are getting ocean front as ultimate occupancy. But should I be worried about “when available “ or is that normal ?

Thank you
Sai

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

So a manager called who said been doing deeds for years. He is saying ours will be guaranteed oceanfront . Just says when available that’s because that’s how it’s worded. Our ultimate occupancy is ocean front but the deed is ocean view. Looks like. Did you check the screen shot I sent ? Please kindly do. Does yours said the same?

BE SURE HE PUTS THIS IN WRITING. Otherwise you don't have a leg to stand on and you're stuck with it.

Me? I would rescind and purchase a deed which specifically states "OCEANFRONT".

Not my money so you need to make your own decision.






.

 

[bnoble]

I would rescind as well. Just tell them that you are willing to re-do the deal with exactly the same terms, but you want to make sure that oceanfront is in writing in the agreement, not just verbally represented. There shouldn't be any hard feelings.

 

[jme]

Marty, I think you may have these switched? The Ultimate Occupancy is "oceanfront". That means oceanfront is what the owner is guaranteed. Since they had sold one of the oceanfront units with a ocean view ultimate occupancy when only those front buildings had been built, when they built out the back buildings they had to in turn sell one of those as oceanfront Ultimate Occupancy.

In the case of the OP, the unit number (begins with 5) on the deed should be in Maple or Pine but they actually own an Oceanfront view.

It could be possible that I have it switched because I "deleted that thought" for the explanation and nuances long ago,
but I think I remember the language regarding Oceanfront "ultimate occupancy" phrase only when you someone was buying a back building unit
which was done pre-construction.

The term "OceanView" refers only to the back buildings and is the official view category, just as Garden, Oceanside, and Oceanfront are for the others.
Those certain floors above GardenView in the back are officially called OceanView.

So hers being definitely Oceanfront "with back building option" (if I had it switched) is not what I think happened because of the "Oceanfront when available" quote.
The Ultimate Occupancy language was mentioned and explained on TUG previously when it's a back building unit, and that's what I've heard over the years.
Bottom line, I wouldn't purchase it unless it absolutely specified Oceanfront ONLY on the deed.

I would love to see clarification once and for all on this........and if I switched it, I'm open for correction. Thanks Jeremy!!!!

 

[dioxide45]

It could be possible that I have it switched because I "deleted that thought" for the explanation long ago,
but I think I remember the language regarding Oceanfront "ultimate occupancy" phrase only when you someone was buying a back building unit.

So hers being definitely Oceanfront with back building option is not what I think happened because of the "Oceanfront when available" quote.
The Ultimate Occupancy language was mentioned on TUG previously when it's a back building unit, or that's what I've heard over the years.
Bottom line, I wouldn't purchase it unless it absolutely specified Oceanfront ONLY on the deed.

I would love to see clarification once and for all on this........and if I switched it, I'm open for correction. Thanks Jeremy!!!!

For every unit in Conch, Scallop and Starfish that they sold as a garden view or ocean view, they had to in kind sell a unit in Maple or Pine as oceanside or oceanfront ultimate occupancy. I beleive that is what this is. They built the Conch, Scallop and Starfish buildings first but wanted to be able to sell garden and ocean view units. So they deeded those sales in Conch, Scallop and Starfish as an ultimate occupancy of ocean or garden view. When they got around to selling the newly finished Maple and Pine, a bunch of those were already sold as occupied by people who bought physical units in the first three buildings. The unit number in the image is 5073 and I confirmed that is the Pine building. Thus their "oceanfront" ultimate occupancy means they can reserve an oceanfront unit even though their deeded unit is oceanview (7th floor in Pine).

 

[DRH90277]

This is too confusing and blemishes the unit forever - why mess with it. You are buying someone else's problem - Rescind this mess....

I nearly bought one of these "confusing use" units at OceanWatch a few years ago. I could never get a clear "in writing" representation - only these historical explanations. I backed away due to the lack of good verifiable information and knowing this blemish would haunt me forever (and always at resale). You can buy a "clean OceanFront platinum resale unit for from $18,000 to $20,000. You can buy an OceanSide platinum for about $12,000. We bought the OceanSide's because they are in the side buildings and have better views in our opinion than the OceanFront units in the building over the check-in desk - nearly all of the OceanFront units are above the check-in desk. The best OceanFront units are on the ends of the two OceanSide buildings right on the ocean and there aren't many of them.

Another indication of what you would be getting is to have them tell you how many Abound points it would generate - an OceanFront platinum week should generate about 4,400. My OceanSide platinum units generate 3,900.

 

[Avulasai]

I would rescind as well. Just tell them that you are willing to re-do the deal with exactly the same terms, but you want to make sure that oceanfront is in writing in the agreement, not just verbally represented. There shouldn't be any hard feelings.

The oceanfront is in writing. It’s listed as ultimate occupancy . They are saying that is how all oceanwatch deeds are done. I was hoping someone from
Oceanwatch owner can comment how their week is deeded?

 

[pedro47]

Deleted.

 

[SueDonJ]

OceanWatch at Myrtle Beach and SurfWatch at Hilton Head Island in South Carolina were the only two MVC resorts that sold with Ultimate Occupancy provisions in certain deeds during the construction phase. It allowed owners to purchase a unit/view type that would be in a building not yet completed, while also allowing them to book/stay in buildings approved for occupancy in the interim. That's what the "when available" language references, i.e. after occupancy permits for the purchased unit view/type were officially issued. (It's nothing to do with the typical availability issues of floating timeshares based on demand.)

The original deeds affected by Ultimate Occupancy all contain provisions that specifically reference the UO terms in clear language and it was also referenced in any original direct purchasers' sales checklist that had to be initialed and signed. In addition the two unit/view designations will be referenced in your account profile. I have two direct-purchase SurfWatch Weeks that were originally sold with UO - my Oceanvista Week is notated as "Oceanvista/Gardenview" and my Oceanside Week is notated as "Oceanside/Gardenview."

Anyone who's purchasing an OceanWatch or SurfWatch Week can easily confirm the ultimate occupancy by asking the current owner how it's notated in their account, and then be assured that the first of the two designations will be what you're buying. If the seller can't verify it then Owner Modifications can. DON'T rely on anyone onsite at the resort confirming UO - the current staff most likely weren't around during the construction phase and likely have never heard of "Ultimate Occupancy."

 

[SueDonJ]

The oceanfront is in writing. It’s listed as ultimate occupancy . They are saying that is how all oceanwatch deeds are done. I was hoping someone from
Oceanwatch owner can comment how their week is deeded?

If you're looking at the deed then it's all the confirmation you need, and based on my experience it will never be a problem.

 

[SueDonJ]

This is too confusing and blemishes the unit forever - why mess with it. You are buying someone else's problem - Rescind this mess....

I nearly bought one of these "confusing use" units at OceanWatch a few years ago. I could never get a clear "in writing" representation - only these historical explanations. I backed away due to the lack of good verifiable information and knowing this blemish would haunt me forever (and always at resale). You can buy a "clean OceanFront platinum resale unit for from $18,000 to $20,000. You can buy an OceanSide platinum for about $12,000. We bought the OceanSide's because they are in the side buildings and have better views in our opinion than the OceanFront units in the building over the check-in desk - nearly all of the OceanFront units are above the check-in desk. The best OceanFront units are on the ends of the two OceanSide buildings right on the ocean and there aren't many of them.

Another indication of what you would be getting is to have them tell you how many Abound points it would generate - an OceanFront platinum week should generate about 4,400. My OceanSide platinum units generate 3,900.

Based on my experience owning UO Weeks, and probably more importantly based on the years that the two UO resorts have been open, this response is way too harsh. UO really isn't all that confusing or hard to understand when you're dealing with a direct purchase and certainly it's not a "blemish" or a "mess" that causes usage problems. (On the external resale market it might be a totally different story but that's more the fault of sellers who don't bother to explain UO.) I've never seen anything on TUG, or any other social media sites dealing with Marriott timeshares, that claimed an individual owner was placed in the wrong unit/view type because UO was a factor.

 

[DRH90277]

Based on my experience owning UO Weeks, and probably more importantly based on the years that the two UO resorts have been open, this response is way too harsh. UO really isn't all that confusing when you're dealing with a direct purchase. (On the external resale market it might be a totally different story but that's more the fault of sellers who don't bother to explain UO.) I've never seen anything on TUG, or any other social media sites dealing with Marriott timeshares, that claimed an individual owner was placed in the wrong unit/view type because UO was a factor.

Remember, timeshare purchases are forever -

My point is why would I buy a week surrounded with such confusion over purchasing a clean unblemished week. Those weeks might be fine, but trying to explain this is difficult as evidenced by the earlier attempts at explaining this here. I encountered one of these as I was buying weeks a few years ago, I was assured this was all ok. But, I wasn't crazy enough to think the seller's realtor (and especially an MVC sales person) would be honest - too many excuses. So, I bought the clean stuff - my choice.

 

[SueDonJ]

My point is why would I buy a week surrounded with such confusion over a clean unblemished week. Those weeks might be fine, but trying to explain this is difficult as evidenced by the earlier attempts at explaining this. I encountered one of these as I was buying weeks a few years ago, I was assured this was all ok. But, I was not crazy enough to think the realtor (and especially an MVC sales person) would be honest - too many excuses. So, I bought the clean stuff - my choice.

Based on the annual budget report SurfWatch alone has 10,042 "time-sharing interests" and I'd guess 3/5 are affected by UO (because the two gardenview buildings were the first certified for occupancy, the two oceanside and one oceanvista buildings were sold with UO, and, every oceanside and oceanvista sold with UO were offset by gardenview UO deeds.) If it were logical to think that the difference between deeds that contain UO provisions and deeds that don't is anywhere measurable in terms of usage, then THOUSANDS of SurfWatch and OceanWatch Weeks would be absolutely useless for owners!

They're not. Mine aren't. It's a thing that exists because of the legal constructs of Marriott sales, nothing more and nothing less. It's honestly a little bit frustrating to take the time to answer UO questions trying to dispel any confusion about it, and then still be faced with criticism that it's a game-changer. It's not! Other than the relatively few surprises that result from sellers on the external resale market - not the direct Marriott market - not knowing what they're selling, it's simply a non-issue. The answers/explanation about UO are there plain as day in the deeds.

 

[jwalk03]

The oceanfront is in writing. It’s listed as ultimate occupancy . They are saying that is how all oceanwatch deeds are done. I was hoping someone from
Oceanwatch owner can comment how their week is deeded?

They are certainly not ALL this way- but some are. I don't think anyone can tell you how many.

 

[jwalk03]

This is too confusing and blemishes the unit forever - why mess with it. You are buying someone else's problem - Rescind this mess....

I nearly bought one of these "confusing use" units at OceanWatch a few years ago. I could never get a clear "in writing" representation - only these historical explanations. I backed away due to the lack of good verifiable information and knowing this blemish would haunt me forever (and always at resale). You can buy a "clean OceanFront platinum resale unit for from $18,000 to $20,000. You can buy an OceanSide platinum for about $12,000. We bought the OceanSide's because they are in the side buildings and have better views in our opinion than the OceanFront units in the building over the check-in desk - nearly all of the OceanFront units are above the check-in desk. The best OceanFront units are on the ends of the two OceanSide buildings right on the ocean and there aren't many of them.

Another indication of what you would be getting is to have them tell you how many Abound points it would generate - an OceanFront platinum week should generate about 4,400. My OceanSide platinum units generate 3,900.

There are 70 oceanfront units in Starfish (58%), and 50 in Conch & Scallop (42%) combined. I don't think that constitutes "nearly all"

 

[DRH90277]

There are 70 oceanfront units in Starfish (58%), and 50 in Conch & Scallop (42%) combined. I don't think that constitutes "nearly all"

Bingo! Must have been my old notes from a sales presentation.

FYI - Total today 361 units = 117 OF, 94 OS, 75 OV, 75 GV. 54 of the OF units are on the ends of buildings. The numbers seem to change a bit from time to time.

 

[jwalk03]

Bingo! Must have been my old notes from a sales presentation.

FYI - Total today 361 units = 117 OF, 94 OS, 75 OV, 75 GV. 54 of the OF units are on the ends of buildings. The numbers seem to change a bit from time to time.

Only 50 OF on the ends in Conch & Scallop. You lose 3 on the 2nd floor of Conch that are the sales gallery and you lose 1058 (corner OF unit 5th floor poolside) that is the model villa.

You can see the details and map I put together in this thread-

Marriott Ocean Watch Villa View Map

I had some downtime on a chilly rainy day during our stay at Ocean Watch last week and put this together since questions get asked about which building and which view all the time.

tugbbs.com

 

[jme]

In the OP's original post which contained the attachment from Marriott (now removed by Moderator) that specified some personal information,
it plainly stated on that attachment that the purchased unit's view category was "OceanView", which according to the resort's NAMES of the unit types
(Oceanfront, Oceanside, Oceanview, Garden)
means it's the top floors (floor 8 & above in one back building, and floor 9 & above in the second back building).
That's where they're located if "OceanView" is the view type category purchased.
That's why I said I believe the purchase was for a "back building unit" in the higher floors which are universally known as the OceanView units.
I find it very difficult to believe an owner has the annual option to book either an OceanView villa OR an OceanFront villa by virtue of owning an "Ultimate Occupancy" week.
If that's true, would EVERY owner of an OceanView week not request to book Oceanfront???????

I took time out at work today to do this:
I called Marriott Owner Services, and also called Oceanwatch Resort Sales Dept, and neither rep had a clue about what I was talking about.
My question, "Are you familiar with the term 'Ultimate Occupancy' and what it means as it relates to purchasing ownership of
Oceanview and Oceanfront deeded weeks at Marriott's Oceanwatch Resort?"
The answer that came back was "What is that? No, I don't know what that is. You need to call (the OTHER department)."
And yes, the "other department" was Owner Services if I was speaking to the Sales Dept guy, or the Sales Dept if I was speaking to the Owner Services guy.
What? Going in circles.

 

[DRH90277]

In the OP's original post which contained the attachment from Marriott (now removed by Moderator) that specified some personal information,
it plainly stated on that attachment that the purchased unit's view category was "OceanView", which according to the resort's NAMES of the unit types
(Oceanfront, Oceanside, Oceanview, Garden)
means it's the top floors (floor 8 & above in one back building, and floor 9 & above in the second back building).
That's where they're located if "OceanView" is the view type category purchased.
That's why I said I believe the purchase was for a "back building unit" in the higher floors which are universally known as the OceanView units.
I find it very difficult to believe an owner has the annual option to book either an OceanView villa OR an OceanFront villa by virtue of owning an "Ultimate Occupancy" week.
If that's true, would EVERY owner of an OceanView week not request to book Oceanfront???????

I took time out at work today to do this:
I called Marriott Owner Services, and also called Oceanwatch Resort Sales Dept, and neither rep had a clue about what I was talking about.
My question, "Are you familiar with the term 'Ultimate Occupancy' and what it means as it relates to purchasing ownership of
Oceanview and Oceanfront deeded weeks at Marriott's Oceanwatch Resort?"
The answer that came back was "What is that? No, I don't know what that is. You need to call (the OTHER department)."
And yes, the "other department" was Owner Services if I was speaking to the Sales Dept guy, or the Sales Dept if I was speaking to the Owner Services guy.
What? Going in circles.

I ran into the same response during an attempt to buy a unit a couple years back. I was trying to buy an oceanside unit but couldn't figure out why the unit number was not in one of the two oceanside buildings. The real estate agent (Sam) representing the seller seemed to have all this figured out and explained why my apprehensions were unfounded - this was supposedly a special deal during the building of the various buildings. Owner Services personnel at the time were unable to explain this supposed special right of exchange. So, I walked from the transaction and pursued another.

I'm not saying a booking reservation right isn't attached to these units. However, there should be something in writing from Marriott and owner services should know of this right. Who wants to deal with this uncertainty years after the initial purchase of the units?