Upscale at Hilton?

[Ralph Sir Edward]

streamside is low end, one of the ones i was referring too. cheap points are cheap stays, it's why streamsidd is 1/8 the points in mud season. vail, i meant ritzcarlton.

Streamside is 675 points right now for an entire week.... in contrast it is 6750 for a maui tower week. one is a$270 stay for a week in MF, the other $2K for a week in MF.

For 2500 points, you could have stayed in a 2bedroom at vail ritz carlton, in the current season. you would be treated like royalty at a MF cost lf $1K.

To me, mud week in the mountains is still mud week in the mountains, no matter how upscale the resort. No interest, even for free.

In every system, there are overvalues and undervalues. I find it easier to find an undervalued resort in the Hilton system than the Marriott system. YMMV

Example: I have penthouse weeks at the Bay Club in Waikoloa. $1608 a week MFs this year. Compared to $2500+ for MOC, 2300+ for Ko Olina, and 2100+ for Waiohai. Or for that matter Sabal/Royal Palms in Orlando which run $1300+. (All winter high season). So I can get Hawaii at nearly Marriott Orlando prices - a little over $200 a week more. (I used to own at Royal Palms; Bay Club and the Palms are pretty much the same quality and amenity wise.) To go Marriott in Hawaii, you are talking $500 to nearly $1000 a week more, and that is if you buy weeks resale. If you go high season with points, you are talking an additional $500 a week more. Say $1000 to $1500 a week more. Do that for a 4 week stay and there is premium economy airfare for 2 and a rental car, paid for by the difference. Great value for money, as the British would say. . .

 

[taffy19]

JMHO... Based on the discussion in this thread, I think you’ll be disappointed with the Lagoon Tower. I suggest a high floor in the newest HHV tower (Grand Islander). I think that would be a better option for you.

Grand Islander 2502 - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/grand-islander-2502.264671/​

The Lagoon tower isn’t for everyone. See this older thread.
“my opinion on hhv” (2010) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/my-opnion-on-hhv.114130


Here’s a comparison I wrote in another thread.

I believe that you are right because the condos at the Grand Islander are really nice if the luxury of a condo is #1 on someone’s list and even for the 1 BR too.

However, the OP’s username is 4Sunsets so the Lagoon Tower may have a greater chance to score a beautiful sunset view and would require less points too, I assume.

 

[TravelTime]

To me, mud week in the mountains is still mud week in the mountains, no matter how upscale the resort. No interest, even for free.

In every system, there are overvalues and undervalues. I find it easier to find an undervalued resort in the Hilton system than the Marriott system. YMMV

Example: I have penthouse weeks at the Bay Club in Waikoloa. $1608 a week MFs this year. Compared to $2500+ for MOC, 2300+ for Ko Olina, and 2100+ for Waiohai. Or for that matter Sabal/Royal Palms in Orlando which run $1300+. (All winter high season). So I can get Hawaii at nearly Marriott Orlando prices - a little over $200 a week more. (I used to own at Royal Palms; Bay Club and the Palms are pretty much the same quality and amenity wise.) To go Marriott in Hawaii, you are talking $500 to nearly $1000 a week more, and that is if you buy weeks resale. If you go high season with points, you are talking an additional $500 a week more. Say $1000 to $1500 a week more. Do that for a 4 week stay and there is premium economy airfare for 2 and a rental car, paid for by the difference. Great value for money, as the British would say. . .

Just out of curiosity, what is the MF for an equivalent unit to the Bay Club at the Marriott on the Big Island? I wonder if there is such a huge price difference? Big Island is the least expensive island for real estate so wondering if that may be why Hilton can charge less in MFs.

 

[4Sunsets]

thanks everyone

 

[4Sunsets]

I have penthouse weeks at the Bay Club in Waikoloa. $1608 a week MFs this year. Compared to $2500+ for MOC, 2300+ for Ko Olina, and 2100+ for Waiohai. Or for that matter Sabal/Royal Palms in Orlando which run $1300+. (All winter high season). So I can get Hawaii at nearly Marriott Orlando prices - a little over $200 a week more. (I used to own at Royal Palms; Bay Club and the Palms are pretty much the same quality and amenity wise.) To go Marriott in Hawaii, you are talking $500 to nearly $1000 a week more, and that is if you buy weeks resale. If you go high season with points, you are talking an additional $500 a week more. Say $1000 to $1500 a week more. Do that for a 4 week stay and there is premium economy airfare for 2 and a rental car, paid for by the difference. Great value for money, as the British would say. . .

I like what Hilton is doing and so a new owner. However, when comparing apples to apples one must compare all costs. Marriott doesn't charge booking or cancellation fees, or parking fees for owners, guest certificate fees, etc. Marriott also includes taxes in the MF. Marriot daily facility fee structure is also different than Hilton (and a bit less I believe: it was $7.97 a day Maui Towers vs $28 or so with Hilton).

Parking in Hawaii is expensive so if you compare resort to resort/island to island, you should look at all of this when considering. For example @ Ko Olina parking is $30 a day for non-owners, so a 7-day stay saves you $210, add in other Hilton fees, and the difference between the two quickly shrinks.

 

[dayooper]

I like what Hilton is doing and so a new owner. However, when comparing apples to apples one must compare all costs. Marriott doesn't charge booking or cancellation fees, or parking fees for owners, guest certificate fees, etc. Marriott also includes taxes in the MF. Marriot daily facility fee structure is also different than Hilton (and a bit less I believe: it was $7.97 a day Maui Towers vs $28 or so with Hilton).

Parking in Hawaii is expensive so if you compare resort to resort/island to island, you should look at all of this when considering. For example @ Ko Olina parking is $30 a day for non-owners, so a 7-day stay saves you $210, add in other Hilton fees, and the difference between the two quickly shrinks.

Most HGVC resorts don’t charge for parking and daily fees unless you are trading in. Yes, many of the Hawaii resorts do charge parking, but the majority of resorts have free parking for members using their club points. I have not heard of an HGVC resort charging s daily fee to a member using club points either.

 

[frank808]

I like what Hilton is doing and so a new owner. However, when comparing apples to apples one must compare all costs. Marriott doesn't charge booking or cancellation fees, or parking fees for owners, guest certificate fees, etc. Marriott also includes taxes in the MF. Marriot daily facility fee structure is also different than Hilton (and a bit less I believe: it was $7.97 a day Maui Towers vs $28 or so with Hilton).

Parking in Hawaii is expensive so if you compare resort to resort/island to island, you should look at all of this when considering. For example @ Ko Olina parking is $30 a day for non-owners, so a 7-day stay saves you $210, add in other Hilton fees, and the difference between the two quickly shrinks.

Koolina doesn't charge parking to exchangers also. MVC does not have an internal exhange system for owners(like HGVC does) that are in the legacy program. So to use anywhere but our home resort we have to pay a $154 exchange fee to II. So there are charges to go somewhere else than you owned week with Marriott.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[seagila]

Just out of curiosity, what is the MF for an equivalent unit to the Bay Club at the Marriott on the Big Island? I wonder if there is such a huge price difference? Big Island is the least expensive island for real estate so wondering if that may be why Hilton can charge less in MFs.

The 2019 MF of a two-bedroom in Bay Club ranges $1,516.57 - $1,782.12 depending on the unit layout and whether it's the penthouse or not. Meanwhile, the number of Marriott DC Points required for a week in an Island View (lowest point requirement) two-bedroom at Marriott's Waikoloa Ocean Club ranges 4,175 - 5,825 or $2,421.50 - $3,378.50 based on 2019 MF for DC Trust Points ($0.58/point). If you're using the MF of Asia Pacific Points or an enrolled Marriott week electing points, the range could be lower or higher.

Taking the difference in cost between the high end of Bay Club's MF and the low end of DC Trust Points MF, you have $2,421.5 - $1,782.12 = $639.38. Add to this the DC Club Dues one pays depending on their tier, $205 - $270, and the difference is even higher. Also worth noting that Bay Club owners pay the same MF even when booking peak season. Marriott DC Trust Points costs quite a bit more during peak season.

I've stayed at neither one, so cannot comment on quality. I suspect that Waikoloa Ocean Club has an edge with amenities, so the guest will have to decide whether it's worth the difference in price.

 

[alwysonvac]

Lagoon Tower...
Cons: Washer & dryer centrally located on each floor

I wouldn't say they're centrally located.

Lol, true since it’s not near the center of the hallway .

 

[csodjd]

Lagoon Tower...
Cons: Washer & dryer centrally located on each floor

I wouldn't say they're centrally located.

And the dryer's, at least on the 23rd floor, suck. Unless by "dry" one means less wet. We went several cycles and finally gave up and just laid clothes out in the room to dry. But, we had a gorgeous view while they were drying.

 

[csodjd]

HGVC's Lagoon Tower and MVCI's Waiohai are our two favorite Hawaii resorts. The Lagoon tower because it is on the ocean in Waikiki. Close to all of Honolulu's Hawaiiana destinations (Bishop, Chinatown, Iolani, Punchbowl, Pali, Queen Emma, etc.) and with some of the world's best eats in walking distance or a short drive away. Waiohai because Kauai is a lush garden paradise and Waiohai sits on one of the world's great beaches - Poipu - with snorkeling, swimming, and wildlife literally steps from your villa. We also really like the towns of Kauai's South Shore - Koloa, Hanapepe, Waimei, etc.

We've also stayed at MOC, Ko Olina, and the Bay Club...all of which have their pluses and minuses.

For the record, I wouldn't necessarily put Oahu's "Chinatown" on the must do list. Went over there a few weeks ago to check it out. Not pretty. Not a warm fuzzy feeling. Was glad to leave. Quickly.

 

[csodjd]

I believe that you are right because the condos at the Grand Islander are really nice if the luxury of a condo is #1 on someone’s list and even for the 1 BR too.

However, the OP’s username is 4Sunsets so the Lagoon Tower may have a greater chance to score a beautiful sunset view and would require less points too, I assume.

My wife was able to sweet-talk her way to a great room in Lagoon a few weeks ago, 2363. Nice view of Diamond Head, great view of the fireworks, etc. But, not a sunset view. The sun sets on the other side of the building. So, for sunset, I think you'd want a harbor view/harbor side of the building in Lagoon Tower, at least in April. I find the sunsets in Maui hard to match.

 

[TravelTime]

The 2019 MF of a two-bedroom in Bay Club ranges $1,516.57 - $1,782.12 depending on the unit layout and whether it's the penthouse or not. Meanwhile, the number of Marriott DC Points required for a week in an Island View (lowest point requirement) two-bedroom at Marriott's Waikoloa Ocean Club ranges 4,175 - 5,825 or $2,421.50 - $3,378.50 based on 2019 MF for DC Trust Points ($0.58/point). If you're using the MF of Asia Pacific Points or an enrolled Marriott week electing points, the range could be lower or higher.

Taking the difference in cost between the high end of Bay Club's MF and the low end of DC Trust Points MF, you have $2,421.5 - $1,782.12 = $639.38. Add to this the DC Club Dues one pays depending on their tier, $205 - $270, and the difference is even higher. Also worth noting that Bay Club owners pay the same MF even when booking peak season. Marriott DC Trust Points costs quite a bit more during peak season.

I've stayed at neither one, so cannot comment on quality. I suspect that Waikoloa Ocean Club has an edge with amenities, so the guest will have to decide whether it's worth the difference in price.

After I asked the question, I realized that Marriott does not sell weeks at Waikoloa so it is not apples to apples to compare the cost using points to the cost of a week. The points cost is usually higher even when comparing a Marriott week to the same week with DC points. I think they may have overpriced Waikoloa though. Hope to see it one day using my 30% discount.

 

[TravelTime]

For the record, I wouldn't necessarily put Oahu's "Chinatown" on the must do list. Went over there a few weeks ago to check it out. Not pretty. Not a warm fuzzy feeling. Was glad to leave. Quickly.

I would not put any Chinatown on a must do list.

 

[csodjd]

I would not put any Chinatown on a must do list.

Fair enough. But San Francisco's is an interesting walk, and places you would be comfortable eating at. Can't say the same for Honolulu.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

Just out of curiosity, what is the MF for an equivalent unit to the Bay Club at the Marriott on the Big Island? I wonder if there is such a huge price difference? Big Island is the least expensive island for real estate so wondering if that may be why Hilton can charge less in MFs.

Island View in the same time period - 4175 points (there are no weeks, totally a points resort) x .58 = $2421 vs $1608 for Bay Club, or $813 a week more. . .

 

[ljmiii]

For the record, I wouldn't necessarily put Oahu's "Chinatown" on the must do list. Went over there a few weeks ago to check it out. Not pretty. Not a warm fuzzy feeling. Was glad to leave. Quickly.

Fair enough. But San Francisco's is an interesting walk, and places you would be comfortable eating at. Can't say the same for Honolulu.

I would agree that Honolulu's Chinatown isn't a 'must do' - we just like it for its food, shopping, and place in the history of Hawaii. For whatever reason Honolulu's Chinatown doesn't actually have any good Chinese restaurants as mainlanders think of them. But there are good Hong Kong style noodle houses and dim sum restaurants as well as great Vietnamese (mainly Pho and Bahn Mi)...I heartily recommend Cuu Long ll or To-Chau. Also the Sing Cheong Yuan Bakery for 'traditional' Chinese baked goods as well as uniquely Hawaiian treats - the Char Siu Manapua and crackseed are particularly tasty.

But as you said, it certainly isn't in the same league as San Francisco's.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

I will also note the the Marriott is a hotel conversion. According to their website, only kitchenettes. . .

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

And this is not going the "cheapskate" MF route. The cheapskate route would be to buy HGVC in Vegas and point into Hawaii. That would lower the MF to around $1200-$1300, but no guarantee of getting a room in Hawaii.

Bay Club is usually an easy swap early on, but no guarantees. I pay more for guarantees and for getting exactly what I want.

(You could argue the Vegas route costs more, because Bay Club has no ROFR, and many of the HGVCs in Vegas do, so you pay more for a week.)

Now Bay Club is not a mega-resort. It was originally built as a condo complex. That is why a mentioned the Palms in Orlando. They both have about the same level of amenities, to give Marriott owners a yardstick for comparison. It boils down to what does one want, and how much is one willing to pay for it. I go for the climate in winter, (and to see the Southern Cross at 4:30 AM occasionally. . . )

 

[dayooper]

And this is not going the "cheapskate" MF route. The cheapskate route would be to buy HGVC in Vegas and point into Hawaii. That would lower the MF to around $1200-$1300, but no guarantee of getting a room in Hawaii.

Bay Club is usually an easy swap early on, but no guarantees. I pay more for guarantees and for getting exactly what I want.

(You could argue the Vegas route costs more, because Bay Club has no ROFR, and many of the HGVCs in Vegas do, so you pay more for a week.)

Actually, it would be even "cheaper." The Vegas MF's are very reasonable. The Boulevard in LV has MF's around $870. Throw on the club booking fee and its just over $900 for a week in Hawaii. That's the beauty of the system. I don't consider it as a cheapskate route, it's how the system works. Yes, you lose the guarantee, but most places you can get what you want if you book at 9 months. There are exceptions, of course, but most places are available. If a member is organized and smart, they can play the system to their advantage and get great deals on vacations. I have a 2 bedroom platinum at The Flamingo (which has no ROFR). I paid a great price and have MF's at $1050 so my vacations are not expensive at all. I trade the guarantee of the home booking season for price and flexibility. Getting what you want is important and paying more for that would be worth it.

That's what makes this system so flexible. It caters to the wants of both types of members; those that want the guarantee and those that want flexibility. The great resorts and awesome service makes it that much better for both types of members.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

I will also note the the Marriott is a hotel conversion. According to their website, only kitchenettes. . .

That is correct. We did a tour at the Waikaloa MVC when they first opened. The rooms were very nice with an upscale feel, but yes only kitchenettes. The resort itself was still undergoing a renovation when we visited. It was a nice resort, but for some reason i was not wowed by the resort.

We own both Marriott points and HGV. For Big Island, we definitely prefer HGV. My favorite is Kings Land, but each resort is great, and i can understand those that like the big villas or Penthouse units at Bay club.

 

[4Sunsets]

My wife was able to sweet-talk her way to a great room in Lagoon a few weeks ago, 2363. Nice view of Diamond Head, great view of the fireworks, etc. But, not a sunset view. The sun sets on the other side of the building. So, for sunset, I think you'd want a harbor view/harbor side of the building in Lagoon Tower, at least in April. I find the sunsets in Maui hard to match.

Maui has beautiful sunsets, but my favorite spot for sunsets is Ko Olina down to the end of the boardwalk in the little private bay. shhhhh....

 

[4Sunsets]

After I asked the question, I realized that Marriott does not sell weeks at Waikoloa so it is not apples to apples to compare the cost using points to the cost of a week. The points cost is usually higher even when comparing a Marriott week to the same week with DC points. I think they may have overpriced Waikoloa though. Hope to see it one day using my 30% discount.

I think so too... but have you looked at the room rates they are trying to charge for the same? My jaw dropped. It's a nice location but oceanfront there not worth the room rate/points.

 

[4Sunsets]

Actually, it would be even "cheaper." The Vegas MF's are very reasonable. The Boulevard in LV has MF's around $870. Throw on the club booking fee and its just over $900 for a week in Hawaii. That's the beauty of the system. I don't consider it as a cheapskate route, it's how the system works. Yes, you lose the guarantee, but most places you can get what you want if you book at 9 months. There are exceptions, of course, but most places are available. If a member is organized and smart, they can play the system to their advantage and get great deals on vacations. I have a 2 bedroom platinum at The Flamingo (which has no ROFR). I paid a great price and have MF's at $1050 so my vacations are not expensive at all. I trade the guarantee of the home booking season for price and flexibility. Getting what you want is important and paying more for that would be worth it.

That's what makes this system so flexible. It caters to the wants of both types of members; those that want the guarantee and those that want flexibility. The great resorts and awesome service makes it that much better for both types of members.

Helpful, I like that about the hilton system too. We are new though so not experienced. Can you or someone explain to me what people refer to as "old point system" vs "new point system" for Hilton Hawaii? Does this specifically refer to like Grand Waikikian and such?

Also what are your favorite Hilton stays on the big island? Kings Landing?

 

[dayooper]

Helpful, I like that about the hilton system too. We are new though so not experienced. Can you or someone explain to me what people refer to as "old point system" vs "new point system" for Hilton Hawaii? Does this specifically refer to like Grand Waikikian and such?

Also what are your favorite Hilton stays on the big island? Kings Landing?

The original point system (still in use for most resorts) is the basic Platinum, Gold and Silver system. It breaks down like this:

Room Size Platinum Gold Silver
3br 8400 pts 5800 pts 4100 pts
2 br 7000 pts 5000 pts 3500 pts
1 br 4800 pts 3400 pts 2400 pts

There are differences in points when you get to the grand, plus and premiere rooms (many times these are ocean front at beach resorts or very high floor rooms in Vegas. Those are usually more points.

Some of the newer high end resorts in Hawaii (not all) and Barbados have much higher point structures. When you purchase deeds there, you get those points. 2 bedroom platinum units can range from 8400 to 14,000 for a basic 2 bedroom booking. Use this link to explore the different resorts HGVC has. Click on a resort and go to the points tab to explore how many points are needed at each resort.

I have never stayed in Hawaii, so I really don't know.