Updated COVID-19 announcement

[WhiskeyJack]

Received an email from Geoff Richards, COO of Wyndham Vacation Clubs this morning. I have copied portions below. Appears that for an unstated amount of time only reservations with owner names as the check in name will be allowed. Also appears, again for an unstated amount of time, that "Amenities such as pools, spas, restaurants and bars, game rooms, activity centers, and business centers will be temporarily closed."

Preparing to Reopen Resorts

We are working to finalize the reopening schedule with careful consideration. As soon as we can provide more details, updates on reopenings will be shared on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, and on your owner website. While we can’t wait to welcome you back on vacation, we want to ensure we’ve adapted our operations and implemented additional safety measures. This means that we will not be able to accommodate all existing reservations. When that happens, owner reservations will be prioritized and we will contact exchange, rental and “guest of” reservations to cancel those bookings. We know you’re eager to get back on vacation, and we’re doing everything we can to help you do that — and do it safely.

Safety Measures

Your resorts have always met the highest standards of cleanliness, and now we are exceeding those standards with enhanced cleaning protocols and disinfecting measures, including the use of hospital-grade, virus-killing products approved by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. We are working with an epidemiologist — a medical doctor who worked for the CDC for 16 years — to ensure we are taking appropriate precautions and implementing strong safety guidelines. While owner interactions are often the best part of our jobs, we want to make your vacation experience as safe as possible. Social distancing will be important even after travel resumes. Here are some changes you can expect to see: • Gatherings in areas like check-in desks, lobbies and elevator bays will be minimized. • The midweek tidy will be suspended so your suite won’t be entered by anyone but your family and guests during your stay. • Amenities such as pools, spas, restaurants and bars, game rooms, activity centers, and business centers will be temporarily closed.

Before you travel, check your club website for the latest updates on amenities and resort impacts.

 

[comicbookman]

Received an email from Geoff Richards, COO of Wyndham Vacation Clubs this morning. I have copied portions below. Appears that for an unstated amount of time only reservations with owner names as the check in name will be allowed. Also appears, again for an unstated amount of time, that "Amenities such as pools, spas, restaurants and bars, game rooms, activity centers, and business centers will be temporarily closed."

Preparing to Reopen Resorts

We are working to finalize the reopening schedule with careful consideration. As soon as we can provide more details, updates on reopenings will be shared on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, and on your owner website. While we can’t wait to welcome you back on vacation, we want to ensure we’ve adapted our operations and implemented additional safety measures. This means that we will not be able to accommodate all existing reservations. When that happens, owner reservations will be prioritized and we will contact exchange, rental and “guest of” reservations to cancel those bookings. We know you’re eager to get back on vacation, and we’re doing everything we can to help you do that — and do it safely.

Safety Measures

Your resorts have always met the highest standards of cleanliness, and now we are exceeding those standards with enhanced cleaning protocols and disinfecting measures, including the use of hospital-grade, virus-killing products approved by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. We are working with an epidemiologist — a medical doctor who worked for the CDC for 16 years — to ensure we are taking appropriate precautions and implementing strong safety guidelines. While owner interactions are often the best part of our jobs, we want to make your vacation experience as safe as possible. Social distancing will be important even after travel resumes. Here are some changes you can expect to see: • Gatherings in areas like check-in desks, lobbies and elevator bays will be minimized. • The midweek tidy will be suspended so your suite won’t be entered by anyone but your family and guests during your stay. • Amenities such as pools, spas, restaurants and bars, game rooms, activity centers, and business centers will be temporarily closed.

Before you travel, check your club website for the latest updates on amenities and resort impacts.

It reads that as owner bookings will be prioritized. So i would expect guest and RCI bookings to only be cancelled if they have to many for the new protocols.

 

[bnoble]

Appears that for an unstated amount of time only reservations with owner names as the check in name will be allowed.

I don't read it that way, but instead...

It reads that as owner bookings will be prioritized. So i would expect guest and RCI bookings to only be cancelled if they have to many for the new protocols.

...it sounds like resorts will be operating at less-than-capacity. If they are already under that threshold, great, no worries. If they are not, and they have to cancel some stays, they will cancel those with owner names last.

 

[Eric B]

That approach is going to be a bit difficult to manage, particularly if it is announced in advance like this. My understanding is that I can wait until the day of check in for a guest before I add the guest's name to a reservation; unless they restrict that it would likely be too late to just cancel the reservation so that an owner can use it themselves. Seems like they would easily be able to deal with extra holidays rentals and exchange reservations through RCI/II where they have an existing formal relationship with the exchange companies, but if an owner rents out a week or deposits it in a smaller exchange system that Wyndham doesn't confirm reservations for (i.e., TPI, SFX, etc.) and the owner doesn't put a guest name on it early, they won't have enough notice for it to make a difference.

 

[bnoble]

No reason to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

[dgalati]

It reads that as owner bookings will be prioritized. So i would expect guest and RCI bookings to only be cancelled if they have to many for the new protocols.

@Fredflintstone The rental business has imploded and became a lot harder. How will a owner rent any reservations under these stipulations? Would lessors have to disclose reservations may be canceled by Wyndham to make rooms available to owners. How will the lessor compensate the lessee for airfare cancellation fees or would they be liable to help re-book stranded vacationers? Of course none of this matters if you own and use for personal use. I wonder if Wyndham will also cancel reservations made with resale points? The owners that used rentals to help offset maintenance fees will be taken to the wood shed. Great strategy on Wyndhams part helping owners secure reservations and in the process squeezing out the rental competition.

 

[Fredflintstone]

@Fredflintstone The rental business has imploded and became a lot harder. How will a owner rent any reservations under these stipulations? Would lessors have to disclose reservations may be canceled by Wyndham to make rooms available to owners. How will the lessor compensate the lessee for airfare cancellation fees or would they be liable to help re-book stranded vacationers? Of course none of this matters if you own and use for personal use. I wonder if Wyndham will also cancel reservations made with resale points? The owners that used rentals to help offset maintenance fees will be taken to the wood shed. Great strategy on Wyndhams part helping owners secure reservations and in the process squeezing out the rental competition.

Good questions and I really don’t know the answers.

An Educated guess?

1. Renters will remain in the drivers seat. Hotels, Airbnb’s, bed and breakfasts will be hurting for cash and competing hard for visitor dollars. As for those who own and trying to rent out to subsidize/cover/ profit from their units, they will need to stand in line with the rest. Even though I can see owners getting booking priority due to the backlog of points, resorts are also in need of cash so I can still see them offering cash only weeks with owners still holding the bag. I have seen on RCI for years that if I want to use points/weeks, I couldn’t get a booking UNLESS I use extra vacations and pay cash. This will continue and probably become more pronounced. The resorts still have the advantage of having payers/owners through MF and other fees. I know I am seeing a smorgasbord of rental options in early 2021.

2. I don’t see the lessor/owner compensating the renter travel costs if Wyndham cancels the reservation. That would be between the owner and Wyndham. Wyndham will win out because they are in the drivers seat. They make the points/weeks concept and can tweak it as they wish. After all, the system is designed for Wyndham’s benefit and bottom line, not the owners. They can change guest certificates on a dime if they want. Perhaps, Wyndham will jack up the fees for guest certificates to help compensate for owner room demands.

3. In my case, I will be more guarded renting a TS until I feel assured my reservation is safe. No biggy there as I have a lot of options beyond TS. I have been getting flooded lately with emails from places I rented in the past encouraging me to book another rental with them in 2021. I have been reading posts on owners sweating it because they have lost renters through cancellations. This will continue for awhile.

Good on Wyndham if they make their owners a priority! They should do that and owners should be assured as best as possible that they can use their benefits they pay for. Yes, I do think those who rent TS to recover costs will get their financial eyes blackened. They will need to use their points for their vacations and that’s good. Either way, the renter can wait and use their cash when they are ready and when things open up. The owner will need to have their money on the ready to pay their MF and club dues regularly regardless of the destabilized travel industry.

That’s why I hate contracts. But that’s me....


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[55plus]

Is Wyndham going to cancel reservations through Extra Holidays? I hate when I want to book something and there is no availability on the website, but there is through Extra Holidays. This is good news for owners who actually use all their points, but not so much for those who rent some or all of their points.

 

[Fredflintstone]

Is Wyndham going to cancel reservations through Extra Holidays? I hate when I want to book something and there is no availability on the website, but there is through Extra Holidays. This is good news for owners who actually use all their points, but not so much for those who rent some or all of their points.

I don’t know BUT I do agree the resorts should make their owners a priority. My guess is they seem to have room when a renter waves cash...cash is King!


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[dgalati]

Is Wyndham going to cancel reservations through Extra Holidays? I hate when I want to book something and there is no availability on the website, but there is through Extra Holidays. This is good news for owners who actually use all their points, but not so much for those who rent some or all of their points.

Very good for Owners using points for their own use. This should help free up Inventory that was being rented by VIP owners with resale points. Very clever the way Wyndham worked this out to help owners book personal reservations but closed a loophole that was being exploited.

 

[Fredflintstone]

Very good for Owners using points for their own use. This should help free up Inventory that was being rented by VIP owners with resale points. Very clever the way Wyndham worked this out to help owners that book personal reservations but closed a loophole that was being exploited.

Totally agree. I think owners should come first. They are the ones paying day in and day out. Renters can find all kinds of options. TS is not the only game in town.

Going through the history of TS, the system was intended for people becoming owners for personal enjoyment. If I saw that owners were truly on the top of the booking heap, I would actually soften my stance on ownership. I used to really get ticked off when my points were no good BUT I can get what I need if I paid extra cash. IMO, that’s just plain wrong. Time to go back to the grassroots on why TS was created in the first place.


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[Fredflintstone]

Wyndham is a very smart company, with great management. I own 20 k shares and read their updates often. They know how to squeeze the maximum dollars out of their resorts. They will change the system to whatever best suits Wyndham and their shareholders. That’s why I keep loading up when stock prices dip.


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[55plus]

I didn't receive an email about the resorts opening. Anyone else? I do receive Mr. Brown's VIP emails regularly.

 

[bestpal38]

I didn't receive an email about the resorts opening. Anyone else? I do receive Mr. Brown's VIP emails regularly.

I got an email, but no specifics as of yet about openings. I've got 4 nights at Lake Tahoe booked June 1st, crossing my fingers. I'm driving and it seems remote enough, I can't see why it would be closed still, but wh knows.

 

[dgalati]

Wyndham is a very smart company, with great management. I own 20 k shares and read their updates often. They know how to squeeze the maximum dollars out of their resorts. They will change the system to whatever best suits Wyndham and their shareholders. That’s why I keep loading up when stock prices dip.


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@Fredflintstone Interesting concept that Owning shares of Wyndham pays a better return compared to being a owner.

 

[Richelle]

@Fredflintstone Interesting concept that Owning shares of Wyndham pays a better return compared to being a owner.

It depends on how much you own and what price you bought them at. If you bought 100 shares at $20 each, that's $2k upfront costs. If it goes up to $50 a share, you made $3k. I've made that much on renting, and have spent less than that on most of my contracts.

 

[Fredflintstone]

It depends on how much you own and what price you bought them at. If you bought 100 shares at $20 each, that's $2k upfront costs. If it goes up to $50 a share, you made $3k. I've made that much on renting, and have spent less than that on most of my contracts.

You forgot to add .50 a share dividend per quarter. I have no MF, club dues, special assessments and the headache to try to rent the place. Also, I can sell my stake on the stock market within seconds. TS sales are a different story.


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[cbyrne1174]

dannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng

 

[dgalati]

You forgot to add .50 a share dividend per quarter. I have no MF, club dues, special assessments and the headache to try to rent the place. Also, I can sell my stake on the stock market within seconds. TS sales are a different story.


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I like Not being locked into one system, no financial burden of paying maintenance fees and without the so called sunk cost of purchasing resale or VIP. The Purchase price of both resale and VIP can be recouped (over several years for a VIP) only If you want to hustle and work hard at renting. Without renting no way to recoup the sunk cost or purchase price. Wyndham sets the bar very low or $0 with Ovations. Owning stock has its risks but normally you will recoup more then your initial investment. Unlike a timeshare the stock price tends to hold original value and sells for more then $0

 

[CO skier]

...it sounds like resorts will be operating at less-than-capacity. If they are already under that threshold, great, no worries. If they are not, and they have to cancel some stays, they will cancel those with owner names last.

When the going gets tough, it is better to be an owner than a rental guest of an owner -- at least in Wyndham/WorldMark/Shell timeshares.

 

[dgalati]

When the going gets tough, it is better to be an owner than a rental guest of an owner -- at least in Wyndham/WorldMark/Shell timeshares.

Now if I was a owner that bought and used all points for my personal use I would have to agree with this statement. But how does your theory work for a owner who rents reservations to cover maintenance fees. Will it be better for them if Wyndham cancels their guest reservations to make availability for owners use? What do you think Owners who bought up to VIP levels and bought millions of resale points to rent reservations are thinking? Would any of these owners disagree or have a different opinion if owning is better then renting under todays circumstances?

 

[Richelle]

You forgot to add .50 a share dividend per quarter. I have no MF, club dues, special assessments and the headache to try to rent the place. Also, I can sell my stake on the stock market within seconds. TS sales are a different story.


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I don't have issues with my timeshare because I learned how to use it to benefit me, so no headache here. I actually enjoy planning and deciding. Very rarely have issues getting what I want at 10 months, and can often get some pretty decent last-minute deals. I guess if you have a bad taste in your mouth for Wyndham, I can see why you would think it's a headache. The sales guys are very good at putting a bad taste in your mouth. Like most things in life, it's what you make of it.

I have never had a special assessment. If I wanted a vacation home, I'd have to pay for those dues anyway. At least this way, I am not stuck in one location and don't have to maintain it. As far as renting, I rent when I have extra points that will expire and cannot use or rollover. I hate to see them go to waste. It's not often that happens. I'll also rent if someone asks to rent from me. I've made some decent money with renting and there was no headache there. I'm also not a rental business either. I never intended to make my money back for buying into VIP. I don't need to. I was never naive enough to think that would ever happen. I was able to get VIP Gold significantly cheaper than most people using PIC. There is no way I would ever pay six figures for gold. I wouldn't even pay half that. Mainly because I wouldn't get enough perceived value out of it for that much. I do make good use of the benefits and all but a few of my reservations have been upgraded. The ones that didn't, I either declined an upgrade or it was it was a three-bedroom in prime season.

I invest in stocks as well. Stocks are not quite as fun as vacations. They are definitely not fun when they tank as they have recently. I feel sorry for the sucker who bought Wyndham destinations when it was over $40 a share. My portfolio does include Wyndham Destinations which I bought recently at $20 a share. I wish I would have seen it when it was $13 a share. I had some extra funds to spend, so I figure I'd use some of it to buy Wyndham Destinations stock. I am not sure how much of a dividend we will see over the next few years. It also will not pay for my VIP unless I buy many more and it goes back up to $40 a share which would take years. In the meantime, I'll enjoy my vacations.

 

[Richelle]

I like Not being locked into one system, no financial burden of paying maintenance fees and without the so called sunk cost of purchasing resale or VIP. The Purchase price of both resale and VIP can be recouped (over several years for a VIP) only If you want to hustle and work hard at renting. Without renting no way to recoup the sunk cost or purchase price. Wyndham sets the bar very low or $0 with Ovations. Owning stock has its risks but normally you will recoup more then your initial investment. Unlike a timeshare the stock price tends to hold original value and sells for more then $0

I considered getting a Marriott contract, but then I would have to keep track of two different systems, and their changes. I have to much to keep track of with other things in my life. I don't need to add another one. I'm sure the others are great, but I don't have a need for another timeshare. When we retire and I have more time on my hands, then we may look into Marriott or whatever other system looks appealing at the time. That's a ways off yet. Who knows what the resale market might be like then.

Did anyone where mention they were trying to make their money back from VIP by renting? I don't recall seeing anyone say that in any of the threads. Maybe it was a while ago? I don't think I've seen anyone on Facebook say they bought in VIP to make a profit. Trying to offset their fees, yes. But not pay for VIP.

Now if I was a owner that bought and used all points for my personal use I would have to agree with this statement. But how does your theory work for a owner who rents reservations to cover maintenance fees. Will it be better for them if Wyndham cancels their guest reservations to make availability for owners use? What do you think Owners who bought up to VIP levels and bought millions of resale points to rent reservations are thinking? Would any of these owners disagree or have a different opinion if owning is better then renting under todays circumstances?

If someone bought millions of points specifically to rent, then I cannot feel sorry for them at the moment. The directory specifically says "The program is for a member's own use and enjoyment and not for commercial purposes". If they are buying points specifically for renting, that's commercial purposes. They are breaking the rules. They are taking a risk when they break the rules. Not only that, them renting those millions of points, takes inventory away from owners. It's on them if they lose a ton of money because of all this. It stinks yes, but I cannot feel sorry for someone who breaks the rules. I feel sorry for the ones that were only renting to offset dues and have to return the money they already put towards their dues. The few mega renters that are remaining, should consider themselves lucky that Wyndham has not shut them down yet.

 

[55plus]

Owning stock, which I do, is one thing, but a Wyndham VIP Platinum ownership when points first came about under Fairfield Resorts beats the market if you bought in then. Most usage at half points during the winter months in Florida and having a reservation during high demand locations and timeframes can't compete. The trick is to use it and maximize its discounts and benefits. The longer you own and use it the less it cost you over time as compared to owning a vacation home or renting a vacation home. It's about understand the system and using to go its full potential.

 

[Richelle]

Owning stock, which I do, is one thing, but a Wyndham VIP Platinum ownership when points first came about under Fairfield Resorts beats the market if you bought in then. Most usage at half points during the winter months in Florida and having a reservation during high demand locations and timeframes can't compete. The trick is to use it and maximize its discounts and benefits. The longer you own and use it the less it cost you over time as compared to owning a vacation home or renting a vacation home. It's about understand the system and using to go it's full potential.

I get varying numbers of how much people spent back then for VIP. Did you buy back then, or know what it was back then? I'm curious as to how much different it was for what I spent for Gold. I bought after Fairfield became Wyndham. I think it was a year or two after. But that was only the first of my two purchases. That one qualified us for Silver VIP with our PIC. That purchase was $15k.