Updated COVID-19 announcement

[CO skier]

Now if I was a owner that bought and used all points for my personal use I would have to agree with this statement.

That was the point of my post.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I didn't receive an email about the resorts opening. Anyone else? I do receive Mr. Brown's VIP emails regularly.

I didn't receive the email mentioned, either. Anyone else? I also receive Mr. Brown's VIP emails regularly (quarterly, I believe).

(Sorry if that was answered earlier, lots to read). Thanks for posting @WhiskeyJack (thank goodness for TUG).

 

[CO skier]

I didn't receive the email mentioned, either.

Did not receive an email as either a Club Wyndham or WorldMark owner (so not sure if that email is fake news), but the announcement does appear on each of the Club Wyndham, Shell, and WorldMark facebook pages.

 

[CO skier]

Anyone who signs onto a developer VIP ownership agrees to something about their non-commercial use of the account. (Not sure about the exact terminology). This would make it easy to distinguish between personal use of a VIP ownership from a commercial use, largely from the number of guest certificates used.

A restriction or limitation on the use of Guest Certificates would present no problem for an owner who utilizes their points for personal use, but a major impediment for a megarenter who has no or little interest in using Wyndham points for their own vacation(s).

 

[Sandi Bo]

Did not receive an email as either a Club Wyndham or WorldMark owner (so not sure if that email is fake news), but the announcement does appear on each of the Club Wyndham, Shell, and WorldMark facebook pages.

The announcement that appears on the Wyndham pages is dated April 21 and makes no reference to the information in the referenced letter.

 

[55plus]

Anyone who signs onto a developer VIP ownership agrees to something about their non-commercial use of the account. (Not sure about the exact terminology). This would make it easy to distinguish between personal use of a VIP ownership from a commercial use, largely from the number of guest certificates used.

As an owner you can't, according to Wyndham directory, do rentals, but Wyndham allows it through Extra Holidays. I guess it's okay in Wyndham's mind because they are profiting from it. Owner who actually use their points for themselves and family, like intended, fall second to Extra Holidays if the timeframe/location you need is not available to you other than to rent it through Extra. That's what angers me about Extra Holidays.

 

[55plus]

I get varying numbers of how much people spent back then for VIP. Did you buy back then, or know what it was back then? I'm curious as to how much different it was for what I spent for Gold. I bought after Fairfield became Wyndham. I think it was a year or two after. But that was only the first of my two purchases. That one qualified us for Silver VIP with our PIC. That purchase was $15k.

From the contract I read my parents obtained their VIP Platinum membership for about $30K. It was Fairfield then and points we new to the timeshare industry. Eventually those who recently purchase will feel it was a good deal if they hang on to it and use it to its full potential. As point prices increase, their purchase will look better and better over the years. We use ours as a way to spend our winters in Florida, along with various other vacations throughout the year.

 

[Sandi Bo]

As an owner you can't, according to Wyndham directory, do rentals, but Wyndham allows it through Extra Holidays. I guess it's okay in Wyndham's mind because they are profiting from it. Owner who actually use their points for themselves and family, like intended, fall second to Extra Holidays if the timeframe/location you need is not available to you other than to rent it through Extra. That's what angers me about Extra Holidays.

I wonder if sales still uses the sales pitch to purchase more points so you can rent and offset your maintenance fees? And they weren't pushing Extra Holidays, either. Ocean Walk would hand out best dates to rent (conventions and events throughout the year that they suggested you book rooms to rent).

 

[55plus]

I wonder if sales still uses the sales pitch to purchase more points so you can rent and offset your maintenance fees? And they weren't pushing Extra Holidays, either. Ocean Walk would hand out best dates to rent (conventions and events throughout the year that they suggested you book rooms to rent).

Sales Weasels will say anything to make a sale. If social distancing is going to be the new thing until a vaccine is developed is Wyndham going to limit reservations to accommodate less people at resorts, meaning not fill resorts to capacity? That won't play well in the summer when most owners travel.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Sales Weasels will say anything to make a sale. If social distancing is going to be the new thing until a vaccine is developed is Wyndham going to limit reservations to accommodate less people at resorts, meaning not fill resorts to capacity? That won't play well in the summer when most owners travel.

But if pools and such aren't open, I wonder how many people will still want to go? I kind of feel like this year is a wash at this point. We haven't pulled the trigger, but 95% sure our family reunion won't happen :-(

 

[wjappraise]

But if pools and such aren't open, I wonder how many people will still want to go? I kind of feel like this year is a wash at this point. We haven't pulled the trigger, but 95% sure our family reunion won't happen :-(

When is your reunion? Ours is thanksgiving time at bonnet creek. Still hopeful.

Wes.

 

[Sandi Bo]

When is your reunion? Ours is thanksgiving time at bonnet creek. Still hopeful.

Wes.

The last 2 weeks of June in Hawaii. I know we need to cancel. Last I checked, timeshares were considered non-essential and thus even if you got there, you can't stay in a timeshare. We know we need to cancel or reschedule. Some still want to go later this year, I think we need to wait until at least next year. Southwest will let you move the flights out up to 30 days for same price as currently booked.

Hope that Thanksgiving works out for you at Bonnet Creek. Your odds are looking much better than mine . I have pondered maybe trying to find something in Myrtle Beach in August, something we could drive to. But haven't put any effort in to that, yet.

 

[dgalati]

That was the point of my post.

I have always said renting is better then owning and the commitment of paying maintenance fees. It becomes even a better deal during a down turn.

It seems we agree to disagree.

 

[dgalati]

I wonder if sales still uses the sales pitch to purchase more points so you can rent and offset your maintenance fees? And they weren't pushing Extra Holidays, either. Ocean Walk would hand out best dates to rent (conventions and events throughout the year that they suggested you book rooms to rent).

It was a strategy to get owners to buy more points. I compare it to the sales cancel and rebook strategy that worked so well for many years. We all know none of what sales is promoting was never a owner benefit but is or was a loophole that is being exploited by owners until it costs Wyndham's rental arm Extra Holidays. When it affects their bottom line that's when they enforce or create new rules.

 

[dgalati]

Anyone who signs onto a developer VIP ownership agrees to something about their non-commercial use of the account. (Not sure about the exact terminology). This would make it easy to distinguish between personal use of a VIP ownership from a commercial use, largely from the number of guest certificates used.

A restriction or limitation on the use of Guest Certificates would present no problem for an owner who utilizes their points for personal use, but a major impediment for a megarenter who has no or little interest in using Wyndham points for their own vacation(s).

Your assumptions on limiting guest certificates are correct. What number of guest certificates used would you consider a owner a mega renter. Remember Wyndham alots 15 per million points. Do you think or Is 15 to many for a owner using points for personal use?

 

[kaljor]

Well I think its 15 per million but that's not important. My question is why would Wyndham include the Guest Certificates if they didn't expect owners to use them.

 

[dgalati]

Well I think its 15 per million but that's not important. My question is why would Wyndham include the Guest Certificates if they didn't expect owners to use them.

30 after 1 million and 1? You are right not important but why issue gift certificates if renting is prohibited.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Well I think its 15 per million but that's not important. My question is why would Wyndham include the Guest Certificates if they didn't expect owners to use them.

And they really, really, love the revenue the guest certificates bring in. I know over the years people keep mentioning guest certificate count and that Wyndham watches that, but I've always felt it was speculation. I don't know of anyone actually called out by Wyndham because of it. Personally, I don't think anyone knows for a fact that Wyndham watches that. Nor do I think anyone's ever nailed down the what makes a renter a megarenter question. I think Wyndham shut down anyone they wanted to with the big stripping and rolling fiasco.

 

[55plus]

I get 30 guest certificates annually and use 3 to 5 for friends and family to join us in Florida and 8 for Daytona 500 and Bike Week. I use 2 to 3 for my military buddies to join us in Washington DC for Memorial Day. And every four years I use 2 to 3 to have friends join us at the Presidential Inauguration. It will all change this year because Wyndham's resort social distancing owners first policy due to the virus.

 

[Richelle]

As an owner you can't, according to Wyndham directory, do rentals, but Wyndham allows it through Extra Holidays. I guess it's okay in Wyndham's mind because they are profiting from it. Owner who actually use their points for themselves and family, like intended, fall second to Extra Holidays if the timeframe/location you need is not available to you other than to rent it through Extra. That's what angers me about Extra Holidays.

Wyndham rents out inventory owners booked and gave them to rent out. They may rent out their own inventory through Extra holidays, but the only owner owned inventory they rent, is what the member themselves booked. I did confirm with an exec that occasionally renting to offset maintenance fees is ok with them. Not sure if they put a limit on Extra Holidays. Of course, it benefits them, but it has some benefit to the owner as well. They do not have to risk someone disputing a charge on their credit card, saying it wasn't them who booked the reservation. Credit card companies almost always side with the customer. If that happens with Wyndham, they deal with the cost of losing that money. Wyndham also collects payment, markets the rentals, manages the reservation, and saves the owner a guest certificate. What I don't agree with is their cancellation policy for extra holidays. The renter can cancel after the 15-day deadline the owner has to cancel and get their points back. So if a renter cancels a week before, and Wyndham cannot rent it out, the owner loses the points and doesn't get paid. Also, you don't always get your entire reservation rented out. Sometimes they only rent out a few days and the owners lose the points on the days that didn't get rented out. 40% commission seems a bit high, but I don't know what the points managers charge. Obviously renting from an owner is cheaper, but it does require some level of trust. Some people would rather spend the extra money to book with a major company. Plus, they have a better cancellation policy them most owners.

Wyndham is going to do what every for-profit company does. Do everything they can to make a profit. Extra Holidays is one revenue stream. They are also going to do what every for-profit company tries to do. Eliminate the competition. If that means shutting down points managers, mega renters, and timeshare brokers, they do that. Wyndham is far from perfect, but I don't expect them to allow others to profit off of them. Of course, they are going to fight the competition.

 

[dgalati]

Wyndham rents out inventory owners booked and gave them to rent out. They may rent out their own inventory through Extra holidays, but the only owner owned inventory they rent, is what the member themselves booked. I did confirm with an exec that occasionally renting to offset maintenance fees is ok with them. Not sure if they put a limit on Extra Holidays. Of course, it benefits them, but it has some benefit to the owner as well. They do not have to risk someone disputing a charge on their credit card, saying it wasn't them who booked the reservation. Credit card companies almost always side with the customer. If that happens with Wyndham, they deal with the cost of losing that money. Wyndham also collects payment, markets the rentals, manages the reservation, and saves the owner a guest certificate. What I don't agree with is their cancellation policy for extra holidays. The renter can cancel after the 15-day deadline the owner has to cancel and get their points back. So if a renter cancels a week before, and Wyndham cannot rent it out, the owner loses the points and doesn't get paid. Also, you don't always get your entire reservation rented out. Sometimes they only rent out a few days and the owners lose the points on the days that didn't get rented out. 40% commission seems a bit high, but I don't know what the points managers charge. Obviously renting from an owner is cheaper, but it does require some level of trust. Some people would rather spend the extra money to book with a major company. Plus, they have a better cancellation policy them most owners.

Wyndham is going to do what every for-profit company does. Do everything they can to make a profit. Extra Holidays is one revenue stream. They are also going to do what every for-profit company tries to do. Eliminate the competition. If that means shutting down points managers, mega renters, and timeshare brokers, they do that. Wyndham is far from perfect, but I don't expect them to allow others to profit off of them. Of course, they are going to fight the competition.

I agree with all points above but In the process of fighting off the competition they are biting the hand that feeds them. Wyndham sells developer points to owners with the sales strategy of renting additional points to pay all maintenance fees. Along with cancel and re-book this was never a benefit and we all know Wyndham can change the rules at any time to suit their needs at the owners expense.

 

[Richelle]

I agree with all points above but In the process of fighting off the competition they are biting the hand that feeds them. Wyndham sells developer points to owners with the sales strategy of renting additional points to pay all maintenance fees. Along with cancel and re-book this was never a benefit and we all know Wyndham can change the rules at any time to suit their needs at the owners expense.

Wyndham as a company, does not sell points by promising people they can rent points for them. The salesperson does. One can argue that since they are employed by Wyndham, it's Wyndham doing it. However, if you've read a recent contract, there is a clause in there that the owner has to acknowledge, that says they are not buying points, in order to offset their maintenance fees.

"Not Buying for Maintenance Fee Offset. Purchaser understands that Wyndham Vacation Resorts may present various programs from time to time that may provide the Purchaser with opportunities to offset a portion of the maintenance fee obligation associated with Purchaser's ownership interest. Purchaser acknowledges the purchased made today, was not made based on any of these programs and has no expectation that Purchaser's participation in these programs will fully or continuously offset any or all of maintenance fee obligation"

So the salesperson may promise that they can offset the maintenance fees by renting points, but that contradicts the contract. The owner agrees that they are not buying to offset their maintenance fees. I have not seen anything in writing that says that they can offset their fees if they buy more. Everything is verbal. With that said, it's on Wyndham to stop the salesperson from making that promise in the first place. I think Wyndham as a whole doesn't condone it, but the sales side of the house is doing nothing to stop it. Or if they are, it is hard to prove because local management is the one encouraging it and covering it up.

If it's not in writing, it was never a rule or a benefit. So there were no rules or benefits changed. Just salespeople being sleazeballs. If people followed common sense and not trust commissioned salespeople and not impulse buy, the entire timeshare industry would tank.

 

[dgalati]

Wyndham as a company, does not sell points by promising people they can rent points for them. The salesperson does. One can argue that since they are employed by Wyndham, it's Wyndham doing it. However, if you've read a recent contract, there is a clause in there that the owner has to acknowledge, that says they are not buying points, in order to offset their maintenance fees.

"Not Buying for Maintenance Fee Offset. Purchaser understands that Wyndham Vacation Resorts may present various programs from time to time that may provide the Purchaser with opportunities to offset a portion of the maintenance fee obligation associated with Purchaser's ownership interest. Purchaser acknowledges the purchased made today, was not made based on any of these programs and has no expectation that Purchaser's participation in these programs will fully or continuously offset any or all of maintenance fee obligation"

So the salesperson may promise that they can offset the maintenance fees by renting points, but that contradicts the contract. The owner agrees that they are not buying to offset their maintenance fees. I have not seen anything in writing that says that they can offset their fees if they buy more. Everything is verbal. With that said, it's on Wyndham to stop the salesperson from making that promise in the first place. I think Wyndham as a whole doesn't condone it, but the sales side of the house is doing nothing to stop it. Or if they are, it is hard to prove because local management is the one encouraging it and covering it up.

If it's not in writing, it was never a rule or a benefit. So there were no rules or benefits changed. Just salespeople being sleazeballs. If people followed common sense and not trust commissioned salespeople and not impulse buy, the entire timeshare industry would tank.

I get what you are saying but Wyndham makes $$$$$ by employing these unscrupulous characters. No one can honestly can say that its not a culture embedded in the sales force. How many unsuspecting couples have been hoodwinked by the use of this deception? Its a well known way sales can sell more points at the benefit of Wyndhams bottom line and the sales weasels back pocket. The whole industry is full of sharks from the developers sales teams to the exit teams. Lets not mention Ovations beating owners on the way out. No first right of refusal but let the owners give back for free to save their poor souls from the greedy exit teams. No matter which way you turn Owners are taking it on the chin from a big cast of unsavory characters. IMHO!

 

[Richelle]

I get what you are saying but Wyndham makes $$$$$ by employing these unscrupulous characters. No one can honestly can say that its not a culture embedded in the sales force. How many unsuspecting couples have been hoodwinked by the use of this deception? Its a well known way sales can sell more points at the benefit of Wyndhams bottom line and the sales weasels pocket.

I don't doubt they use sleazy tactics. I've seen it first hand. However, at what point should the owner takes responsibility for their own actions. The salespeople have their share of the blame, but the owner has the responsibility to protect their own financial security. If they took the time to read the contract during the signing, or shortly afterward, they would have seen that clause, along with the recession clause. Disaster would have been averted. Pretty much all the sales tactics can be proven false with a little research or reading the contract. Unfortunately, they choose not to and end up finding out they were lied to after it was too late. That helps neither the owner or Wyndham. That culture is embedded in a lot of timeshare systems. Wyndham is not unique in that regard. It was probably allowed because that's what their competitors are doing. Wyndham, being the largest, should be setting the standard and not following it. Sadly, until people get smart, and politicians start coming down hard on the Timeshare industry, it will continue.

With that said, what do you think about the new check-in system that Wyndham is implementing? I know what my first thought was, and I think yours will be the same. lol

 

[dgalati]

I don't doubt they use sleazy tactics. I've seen it first hand. However, at what point should the owner takes responsibility for their own actions. The salespeople have their share of the blame, but the owner has the responsibility to protect their own financial security. If they took the time to read the contract during the signing, or shortly afterward, they would have seen that clause, along with the recession clause. Disaster would have been averted. Pretty much all the sales tactics can be proven false with a little research or reading the contract. Unfortunately, they choose not to and end up finding out they were lied to after it was too late. That helps neither the owner or Wyndham. That culture is embedded in a lot of timeshare systems. Wyndham is not unique in that regard. It was probably allowed because that's what their competitors are doing. Wyndham, being the largest, should be setting the standard and not following it. Sadly, until people get smart, and politicians start coming down hard on the Timeshare industry, it will continue.

With that said, what do you think about the new check-in system that Wyndham is implementing? I know what my first thought was, and I think yours will be the same. lol

I missed the new check-in system. Hopefully the parking pass desk is eliminated and no more phone calls to room if you bypass the parking pass desk.