Unusual Timeshare Option?

[mitraarani8]

Hello

My friend and I just went to a timeshare meeting. We are very aware of all the "too good to be true" selling points. We also have read a bunch of threads about not committing. We did get an offer that seemed to be unusual from what we typically have read though.

We were offered today a down payment of $1000. Monthly payment of $170 for 10 years, for an end sale price of roughly $11,500. The annual "HOA" fees of $650 yearly (not including inflation changes, which were supposedly only $15 more from 2023.)

For this we get 10 free nights a year (that do roll over), to stay at ANY Marriott location, so in Cancun, Aruba, Australia, France, Hawaii, etc. Additionally, we get discounted stays for anything after that. For example, 5 nights at a place in Hawaii would be $400 total.

We have never been to a timeshare meeting, even though we are somewhat aware that they aren't good deals. But, we just want more advice to confirm that our suspicions are true. Admittedly, still young and naïve.

Thank you

 

[DanCali]

Where did you have this meeting? Which resort? Was it a Marriott Vacation Club sales office?

What were you actually buying (besides the promise of "10 free nights per year that roll over")? Was it points? Deeded real estate? Or a promise that you'll book what you want when you need it.

You can't really buy anything directly from Marriott for ~$11K, and if you could, it won't get you much (neither will $22K or even $33K for that matter)

 

[mitraarani8]

Where did you have this meeting? Which resort? Was it a Marriott Vacation Club sales office?

What were you actually buying (besides the promise of "10 free nights per year that roll over")? Was it points? Deeded real estate? Or a promise that you'll book what you want when you need it.

You can't really buy anything directly from Marriott for ~$11K, and if you could, it won't get you much (neither will $22K or even $33K for that matter)

Westin LagunaMar in Cancun, at the hotel. I don't know if it was considered MVC sales office, but definitely within the resort and a sales representative, so yea, I would say so.

It sounds like that essentially buying 10 "free" nights a year and additional discounts and getting points with the deal. No deed, no real estate.

Mathematically, if I used those 10 nights a year at a hotel that charges $400 a night, by year 4, I would have already gotten my $11k worth if not more. That's why it seems so unrealistic.

Year 1: 10 nights= $4k
Year 2: 10 nights= $8k
Year 3: 10 nights= $12k
So that $11k will essentially be used up.

 

[emeryjre]

They would probably be nights Tuesday and Wednesday in the off season
Not 10 consecutive nights in a high season week
Just a guess
But the offer has some problem that would make it not desirable
They just failed to mention what it is

 

[mitraarani8]

They would probably be nights Tuesday and Wednesday in the off season
Not 10 consecutive nights in a high season week
Just a guess
But the offer has some problem that would make it not desirable
They just failed to mention what it is

They said no black out days, nothing about non being able to book consecutive nights, but admittedly did fail to ask that. One of the sales manager said he and a friend went in on one 11 years ago.

 

[WorldT]

Westin is definitely part of the Marriott family but at that location you would be buying a Westin product not a Marriott product.
That being said, did the contract say you will get"10 consecutive nights in a 1 bedroom at ANY Marriott property in ..."?
Or did it say you will get x number of points and the sales rep said that will get you 10 nights?
If it is the later, you were lied to, plain and simple.
If you did not agree to it, good for you. If you did, I am interested in see the contract if you care to share. Block out any private info. More importantly, remember the rescission period and cancel before then

 

[mitraarani8]

Westin is definitely part of the Marriott family but at that location you would be buying a Westin product not a Marriott product.
That being said, said they contract say you will get"10 nights in a 1 bedroom at ANY Marriott property in ..."?
Or did it say you will get x number of points and the sales rep said that will get you 10 nights?
If it is the later, you were lied to, plain and simple.

We didn't get the contract, we passed, but they are freezing the option for us for 18 months.
He definitely said 10 nights at ANY Marriott property, well at least from Sheraton, Marriott, or Westin.

 

[tschwa2]

We didn't get the contract, we passed, but they are freezing the option for us for 18 months.
He definitely said 10 nights at ANY Marriott property, well at least from Sheraton, Marriott, or Westin.

He may definitely have said 10 nights at any Marriott property but that isn't what he was selling. it would matter what was in writing and likely what he was selling was enough vacation club points to get you 10 nights in the lowest season in a studio at any of the Westin/sheraton vacation club resorts. I'm guessing 67,000 points. converting those to hotel reward points might get you 1-2 night in a $200 a night Marriot and not even 1 night in many of the upper marriotts. At the vacation club you were at, it might get you 2 5 night stays (weekends not included) during the lowest season. There are no black out dates but if you want weekends or higher season you would get 4-7 nights total and only in vacation club properties. On top of the $650 annual fee there is another $150ish club membership fee.

 

[DanCali]

We didn't get the contract, we passed, but they are freezing the option for us for 18 months.
He definitely said 10 nights at ANY Marriott property, well at least from Sheraton, Marriott, or Westin.

Maybe he said "up to 10 nights"?

There are some Marriott resorts that you can book a 1BR for 50 points a night on Sundays-Fridays. They happen to be mud season (spring, fall) at ski resorts. So, for 500 Abound points you can stay 10 nights if you don't include Fridays and Saturdays. The problem with that is that those same pints will get you 1 or 2 nights at most in Hawaii on a studio...

My guess is that you were buying some Westin flex product that, in some very extreme case, can book 10 very undesirable nights in the Marriott system and gets you little to nothing else otherwise. But it does get you back to buy more when you realize what you bought... The resale value of that product is very near zero so your $11K+ would have evaporated into thin air.

 

[bizaro86]

At the Westin Lagunamar they sell Adventuaras points, not "nights" I'm quite confident that the number of points they offered you would get 10 nights in a low season studio or something.

Based on the HOA fee that has got to be like ~30,000 points, which is a very, very small contract. Basically their business model is to sell you that, and then when you come back explain that its too small to be useful and sell you an upgrade.

 

[mitraarani8]

He may definitely have said 10 nights at any Marriott property but that isn't what he was selling. it would matter what was in writing and likely what he was selling was enough vacation club points to get you 10 nights in the lowest season in a studio at any of the Westin/sheraton vacation club resorts. I'm guessing 67,000 points. converting those to hotel reward points might get you 1-2 night in a $200 a night Marriot and not even 1 night in many of the upper marriotts. At the vacation club you were at, it might get you 2 5 night stays (weekends not included) during the lowest season. There are no black out dates but if you want weekends or higher season you would get 4-7 nights total and only in vacation club properties. On top of the $650 annual fee there is another $150ish club membership fee.

Okay this makes sense. Thank you

 

[mitraarani8]

At the Westin Lagunamar they sell Adventuaras points, not "nights" I'm quite confident that the number of points they offered you would get 10 nights in a low season studio or something.

Based on the HOA fee that has got to be like ~30,000 points, which is a very, very small contract. Basically their business model is to sell you that, and then when you come back explain that its too small to be useful and sell you an upgrade.

Okay, this makes sense. Definitely sounds like maybe the wording he presented was vague.

 

[mitraarani8]

Maybe he said "up to 10 nights"?

There are some Marriott resorts that you can book a 1BR for 50 points a night on Sundays-Fridays. They happen to be mud season (spring, fall) at ski resorts. So, for 500 Abound points you can stay 10 nights if you don't include Fridays and Saturdays. The problem with that is that those same pints will get you 1 or 2 nights at most in Hawaii on a studio...

My guess is that you were buying some Westin flex product that, in some very extreme case, can book 10 very undesirable nights in the Marriott system and gets you little to nothing else otherwise. But it does get you back to buy more when you realize what you bought... The resale value of that product is very near zero so your $11K+ would have evaporated into thin air.

This makes total sense. It sounds like maybe some vague wording and since I didn't see the contract, can't be 100% confident in which is the reality.

 

[dioxide45]

Timeshare salespeople talk in "general terms". They don't like to give specific details or examples because it may then not make sense. It sounds like you bought an Encore Package at the end of the deal. Those can be okay at times, but it did give you some time to do more research. If you like the program, you can read up on it a lot more. There are cheaper ways to get in and get a lot more points. You may also want to check out the Vistana forum here on TUG as it was a Vistana site you visited.

 

[Dean]

Timeshare salespeople tend to be very good at what they do. They probe for your weaknesses and offer you what they think will get your attention. They often give half truths or at least options with enough basis to give deniability. It sounds like you'd done a fair amount of homework but for someone who's not very familiar with the product AND sales tactics, it's risky to even do a tour. I'm glad you didn't commit. I'm always amazed at how otherwise intelligent and diligent people can be conned into buying a timeshare.

This Danny Divito Club comes to mind.

 

[Superchief]

When I was at Surf Watch in January, I overheard a young couple discussing something similar after attending a presentation. It appeared the sales pitch (I'm assuming MVC) was for purchasing a right to travel to various Marriott properties. It appears MVC may now be trying to sell travel packages that are prepaid. These people were staying with another older couple who may have been owners, but didn't attend the presentation.

 

[WorldT]

When I was at Surf Watch in January, I overheard a young couple discussing something similar after attending a presentation. It appeared the sales pitch (I'm assuming MVC) was for purchasing a right to travel to various Marriott properties. It appears MVC may now be trying to sell travel packages that are prepaid. These people were staying with another older couple who may have been owners, but didn't attend the presentation.

They sell encore packages if you didn't bite the main thing they were trying to sell you.
Keep in mind though that the main thing (these days are usually points in one of the system ) is now being tweaked because of the bad reputation of timeshares. The spill is to do everything they can not to mention timeshare.
But if it is a main price (cash or financed) plus a MF , then it is a timeshare (could be deeded or points).

 

[davidvel]

Hello

My friend and I just went to a timeshare meeting. We are very aware of all the "too good to be true" selling points. We also have read a bunch of threads about not committing. We did get an offer that seemed to be unusual from what we typically have read though.

We were offered today a down payment of $1000. Monthly payment of $170 for 10 years, for an end sale price of roughly $11,500. The annual "HOA" fees of $650 yearly (not including inflation changes, which were supposedly only $15 more from 2023.)

For this we get 10 free nights a year (that do roll over), to stay at ANY Marriott location, so in Cancun, Aruba, Australia, France, Hawaii, etc. Additionally, we get discounted stays for anything after that. For example, 5 nights at a place in Hawaii would be $400 total.

We have never been to a timeshare meeting, even though we are somewhat aware that they aren't good deals. But, we just want more advice to confirm that our suspicions are true. Admittedly, still young and naïve.

Thank you

"[D]own payment of $1000. Monthly payment of $170 for 10 years, for an end sale price of roughly $11,500."

($170*120)+$1,000=$21,400, not $11,500. Yes I know there is high interest rate, just pointing out that you are spending $21,400 not $11,500 for who knows what?

 

[Superchief]

They sell encore packages if you didn't bite the main thing they were trying to sell you.
Keep in mind though that the main thing (these days are usually points in one of the system ) is now being tweaked because of the bad reputation of timeshares. The spill is to do everything they can not to mention timeshare.
But if it is a main price (cash or financed) plus a MF , then it is a timeshare (could be deeded or points).

I'm very familiar with the Encore packages, but this was something different. They were told they could use it at any Marriott resort, not just timeshares. I had received a survey from MVC last year asking about interest in MVC providing various travel services, so it appears they are considering expanding their services. I wouldn't be surprised if they are tying to sell pre-paid vacation programs.

 

[Hindsite]

. They were told they could use it at any Marriott resort, not just timeshares.

That is a consistent misleading line that you can use it at Marriott hotels worldwide, which you can, just not all of them and the redemption is truly dreadful. If you point out that it can't be used at "any" Marriott they they say that in the next few months the system will be updated so you can use club points at any Marriott, several years on we are still waiting......
It would be good to get to the bottom of this there are reports of this 10 year plan that come out relatively often, but nobody who actually has one has explained what it actually is and I think we'd know if there was actually a new product offering, as there would likely be a lot of interest in a time-limited arrangement.

 

[m61376]

I love WLR and have traded in several times but always refuse the sales presentation. But I’ve read and heard many too good to be true offers. The salespeople there must be very good.
A few years back was chatting with someone who was ecstatic to buy 2 weeks for 15k. When I told him there was no way he was going to be able to book 2 weeks in a 2 BR and prob it was enough points for an off season studio for 2 weeks. He was convinced that since he was staying in a 2BR that’s what he was buying, for any time he wanted to go.
I wasn’t going to argue. But I said if I could get 2 prime weeks in a 2BR for 15 K I’d be buying .
Sometimes people heat what they want to, and a good salesperson is very good saying what people want to hear.


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[cp73]

Just walk away from this. No one on here has heard of such a deal. Its totally a swindle...Call Marriotts Vacation Club and ask to speak to their sales department. See if they know of such an offer.

 

[pedro47]

They sell encore packages if you didn't bite the main thing they were trying to sell you.
Keep in mind though that the main thing (these days are usually points in one of the system ) is now being tweaked because of the bad reputation of timeshares. The spill is to do everything they can not to mention timeshare.
But if it is a main price (cash or financed) plus a MF , then it is a timeshare (could be deeded

"[D]own payment of $1000. Monthly payment of $170 for 10 years, for an end sale price of roughly $11,500."

($170*120)+$1,000=$21,400, not $11,500. Yes I know there is high interest rate, just pointing out that you are spending $21,400 not $11,500 for who knows what?

What was the actual cost of the product; without the monthly payments for ten years??