{UNLOCKED] Wyndham notice RE commercial use

[paxsarah]

What I was trying to point out is that it’s not equal opportunity for all owners - as am1 ascribed - if 95/100 reservations in my example weren’t for owners - they were for renters in reality. That’s not equal opportunity for all owners in my view. 95 owners lost out to 95 renters - all of which were in clear violation of the commercial use policies.

And I guess my question is, what is it to me whether I missed out on a reservation to a renter or another owner booking for personal use? If the same number of points are chasing the same number of reservations, why do I care, as an individual owner, who got the reservation I missed because I showed up too late? I have the same equal opportunity I always had, but just against different people. It could even be argued that, as we've seen with our TUG renters (as well as those I've seen on FB), that because they tend to book and rent inside the discount window while I tend to book at 10 months, that switching some of those discount-window renters for individual owners who (when they take the time to learn and maximize their ownership) may book *more* often at 10 months, that I lose opportunity now that many renters have been eliminated or scaled down and those contracts have now been sold to small personal owners.

And to be clear, I'm not saying I'm seeing this, but it just makes the point that the total amount of "opportunity," so to speak, in the system remains the same. The best a current owner will see is a slight increase in certain types of opportunity (say inside 60 days) that has to be balanced with a slight decrease in other types of opportunity (say at 10 months). Or vice versa, but who knows. But if the same number of points are chasing the same number of reservations, my opportunity remains the same. So as I said before, it increases the number of owner-occupied units - because it also increased the number of total owners. But it doesn't increase my personal chances of getting a reservation overall.

 

[Jan M.]

I am a vip Platinum owner who received the email and certified letter about commercial use , I have been using about half my points and renting half my points for the past 10 years usually to people who have rented to me before. I don't know what I should do as I can' t use all my points every year as I own at several other timeshares. Should I sign the letter or call and talk to man mentioned on the email.

I feel I am being ripped off my Wyndham as I have two recorded conversations where I asked about renting during updates one where I did purchase additional developer points within Wyndham and the salesman said there would not be any problems. I feel the Wyndham is structured that when I purchase a points at a specific resort I was purchasing a share of a real estate property and as a owner I have rights to do what I want with the real estate I purchased. My last purchase was 84000 or Club Wyndham Access which are think are more shaky to use for rentals, but for the timeshare I have specific deeds I believe I have rights to use as my choice since I own part of property. I have given weeks to Extra Holidays to rent and they have rented the Friday and Saturday nights and left me with no income for the other days. This has happen 4 out 4 times I have used extra holidays.

I think Wyndham needs to think this situation out and I understand elimiting Maga rental with all there cancel and rebook , 12 names on membership and treat owner that pay their fees and rent to friends as a benefit of the program and we don't need to be caught up in all corporate greed for high profits. I think they need to read their ownership goals over and decide how they treat owners who pay their fees and use the timeshare concept wisely.

Since this has been discussed in length in several threads I'm going to try to keep this brief.

Since you bought developer somewhere in the paperwork you signed there was something saying it wasn't intended for commercial use. Renting is commercial use. The only rights you have are what's in the governing docs as Wyndham as the program manager deems fit to enforce them.

It matters not at all what any sales person told you or any owner. Saying "but the sales person said" will get you absolutely nowhere.

Depending on the state if you didn't have the express permission to record the sales person that was illegal. In Texas it's a felony offense.

 

[CO skier]

It seems to me that this is exactly the purpose of the commercial rental letters

So as I said before, it increases the number of owner-occupied units

... not this:

But it doesn't increase my personal chances of getting a reservation overall.

These are two separate issues that commercial renters and ex-renters want to conflate.

If a policy increases the number of owner-occupied units, that is obviously a win for the Club owners who have an ongoing interest in the Club versus non-owners who stay in a unit and that's it -- no connection to the Club and the other owner/members.

 

[Snippy]

If it is for their own personal vacations, then is that not the purpose of a Vacation Club?

My point was directed to a few that are convinced that ending "rentals" will free up tons of availability at 13 months, when I predict it will do the opposite.

 

[cbyrne1174]

I feel like having to file a schedule E on taxes every year was a bigger deterrant for average owners to rent out their excess points than the violation letters were. I'd figure the few extra hundred you'd make in a booking after taxes wouldn't be worth the headache of figuring out how to file a schedule E in the first place. The average person doesn't know how to file the actual 1040 forms and the free federal online programs don't include schedule E, so most people would also just pay the fee to Turbotax or whichever software they use.

This coming year is the first time the IRS has actually made it impossible to hide commercial rental income over $600.

 

[CO skier]

My point was directed to a few that are convinced that ending "rentals" will free up tons of availability at 13 months, when I predict it will do the opposite.

Then they and you have missed the point of the commercial rental letters. It is not about "availability"; it is about owner-occupied units, just like Owner Priority Dates was not about "availability"; it was about more owners and less renters staying in Club Wyndham resorts during the "best" dates.

 

[CO skier]

My point was directed to a few that are convinced that ending "rentals" will free up tons of availability at 13 months, when I predict it will do the opposite.

Could you quote some of those posts, because I looked back on the entire thread and did not see a single post about the "commercial rental" letter "free(ing) up tons of availability at 13 months."

 

[tschwa2]

Then they and you have missed the point of the commercial rental letters. It is not about "availability"; it is about owner-occupied units, just like Owner Priority Dates was not about "availability"; it was about more owners and less renters staying in Club Wyndham resorts during the "best" dates.

which is used as a sales incentive. If you want to stay during these times you have to be an owner and can't rent here at those times without being an owner. I guess it makes some people feel better when they can't book the rooms they want that it is filled with owners and not with renters.

 

[CO skier]

I guess it makes some people feel better when they can't book the rooms they want that it is filled with owners and not with renters.

They feel better because when they "can't book the rooms they want that it is filled with owners", they will not find them for rent on VRBO or AirBnB or Craigslist.

 

[CO skier]

If you want to stay during these times you have to be an owner

Is that not the purpose of a vacation club? Is that not the purpose of the Owner Priority Booking dates?

 

[dioxide45]

New thread, same talking points. Nothing new here...

 

[am1]

I am a vip Platinum owner who received the email and certified letter about commercial use , I have been using about half my points and renting half my points for the past 10 years usually to people who have rented to me before. I don't know what I should do as I can' t use all my points every year as I own at several other timeshares. Should I sign the letter or call and talk to man mentioned on the email.

I feel I am being ripped off my Wyndham as I have two recorded conversations where I asked about renting during updates one where I did purchase additional developer points within Wyndham and the salesman said there would not be any problems. I feel the Wyndham is structured that when I purchase a points at a specific resort I was purchasing a share of a real estate property and as a owner I have rights to do what I want with the real estate I purchased. My last purchase was 84000 or Club Wyndham Access which are think are more shaky to use for rentals, but for the timeshare I have specific deeds I believe I have rights to use as my choice since I own part of property. I have given weeks to Extra Holidays to rent and they have rented the Friday and Saturday nights and left me with no income for the other days. This has happen 4 out 4 times I have used extra holidays.

I think Wyndham needs to think this situation out and I understand elimiting Maga rental with all there cancel and rebook , 12 names on membership and treat owner that pay their fees and rent to friends as a benefit of the program and we don't need to be caught up in all corporate greed for high profits. I think they need to read their ownership goals over and decide how they treat owners who pay their fees and use the timeshare concept wisely.

You may want to fight them. Many others could testify that they were told rentals were okay.

But you want Wyndham to allow the rentals you want but think other rent too much.

Thankfully I did my renting. 4 bedrooms for half the amount of a studio. 50 rooms at a resort at a time.

 

[tschwa2]

Is that not the purpose of a vacation club? Is that not the purpose of the Owner Priority Booking dates?

Yes to help Wyndham sell more of their product and when owners get tired of owning, for wyndham to be able to resell the same product again. And if that doesn't work they will probably relax the rules again and encourage owners to buy more so they can rent it out, etc. If it didn't benefit Wyndham I doubt they would be enforcing it. What I see perhaps happing in the future would be for wyndham to come up with a better extra holiday's model that allows most participants to get closer to breaking even when they can't use their points but then turn around and still keep prices high enough as to not discourage people from becoming owners.

 

[GrandmaGail]

My ownership includes a deed for my home resort. Does this make any difference in how Wyndham views using my points for GCs for my family and friends?

 

[chapjim]

Then they and you have missed the point of the commercial rental letters. It is not about "availability"; it is about owner-occupied units, just like Owner Priority Dates was not about "availability"; it was about more owners and less renters staying in Club Wyndham resorts during the "best" dates.

How can owner occupancy increase unless availability increases?

 

[CO skier]

If it didn't benefit Wyndham I doubt they would be enforcing it.

So much Wyndham paranoia.

Think about how many commercial renters there are -- less than 5% of owners, but they rent millions and billions (collectively) of points. Who benefits from Owner Priority Dates and commercial renters being suspended? The other 95%+ of owners.

 

[CO skier]

How can owner occupancy increase unless availability increases?

Super simple, for every 1,000 fewer renters during Owner Priority dates, for example, there are 1,000 more vacations "available" for Club owners to take their family on vacation. It really is as simple as 1+1=2.

 

[chapjim]

Super simple, for every 1,000 fewer renters during Owner Priority dates, for example, there are 1,000 more vacations "available" for owners to take their family on vacation. It really is as simple as 1+1=2.

So there was an increase in availability, which made an increase in owner occupancy possible. That answers my question. There won't be an increase in owner occupancy unless there is a corresponding increase in availability.

Thanks!

 

[tschwa2]

So much Wyndham paranoia.

Think about how many commercial renters there are -- less than 5% of owners, but they rent millions and billions (collectively) of points. Who benefits from Owner Priority Dates and commercial renters being suspended? The other 95%+ of owners.

If by commercial renters you mean anyone who rents out at least one unit to someone not on their contract, I think there are a lot more than 5%. If we put a number on it like more than 10 wyndham guest certs per year and more than 50% of their annual points the number comes down quite a bit. Sorry but I do think being able to rent out some points and/or reservations on years when you can't use all that you have or being able to rent from other owners on years when you don't have enough points (and can rent for not much more than the MF's) vs the 2X's plus of renting from Wynhdam is a benefit for most owners. Things happen that using rci or moving points forward won't help and having an option to rent is a good thing. Wyndham just needs to do it in a way that really benefits owners.

 

[CO skier]

If by commercial renters you mean anyone who rents out at least one unit to someone not on their contract, I think there are a lot more than 5%. If we put a number on it like more than 10 wyndham guest certs per year and more than 50% of their annual points the number comes down quite a bit.

Then all the more reason for the "commercial rental" letters and the Owner Priority dates to put more Club Wyndham owners on vacation and less non-owners.

 

[tschwa2]

Then all the more reason for the "commercial rental" letters and the Owner Priority dates to put more Club Wyndham owners on vacation and less non-owners.

Yes. If it makes you happy then it must be great for all of the owners like you.

And if that is the way they want to run the club then it would benefit everyone if they were very clear that rentals aren't allowed in any circumstances other than using extra holidays and they should disclose the average return per 1000 points when owners use extra holidays, instead of the fairly vague phrase about commercial renting if their goal is to use the policy to make it better for owners. They should also send out letters to all current members with that information because it certainly hasn't been clear based on the previous enforcement of the policies.

 

[CO skier]

Yes. If it makes you happy then it must be great for all of the owners like you.

It is, most just do not know enough to know how much the new policies improve their ownership in Club Wyndham. They just book whatever they find online or by phone.

 

[GrandmaGail]

Yes. If it makes you happy then it must be great for all of the owners like you.

And if that is the way they want to run the club then it would benefit everyone if they were very clear that rentals aren't allowed in any circumstances other than using extra holidays and they should disclose the average return per 1000 points when owners use extra holidays, instead of the fairly vague phrase about commercial renting if their goal is to use the policy to make it better for owners. They should also send out letters to all current members with that information because it certainly hasn't been clear based on the previous enforcement of the policies.

I agree, EVERY OWNER should have to sign this notice, not the few they have singled out because they “think” the owner had been renting for profit. I am not not renting for profit, but using GCs for family and friends, and I got a notice of violation.

 

[Jan M.]

My ownership includes a deed for my home resort. Does this make any difference in how Wyndham views using my points for GCs for my family and friends?

No, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever.

You're faced with the same options a number of owners have already dealt with months ago or even last year.

1. Add your family members names to the smallest deed/contract in your account. That will greatly reduce the number of points you're using for guests and the number of guest confirmations you're using. You can use any of your points for their reservations and aren't limited to just the points from the deed/contract you add them to. Those family members should pay the maintenance fees on the points for their reservations. That doesn't constitute renting.

2. Downsize the number of points in your account to what you can reasonably expect to use for yourself and any family members on your account.

Contact Certified Exit to see what your options are. They will take back some or all of what you have. You won't receive any money but what you own may qualify for the limited program. With that they take back what you own and give you three years use of the points. However you can only use the points for anyone on your account. No guest reservations.

 

[wed100105]

Hmm...I don't think we'll see an increase of availability, I think Wyndham will take those units for themselves. I also think we're going to see issues with maintenance fees getting paid as people dump contracts. I can't imagine that the market to buy timeshares right now is very hot.