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{UNLOCKED] Wyndham notice RE commercial use

Not after today, LOL! Waitlist!
And I am glad of it because I can use it for my own trips. I am going to be using it often, unless they do charge a fee for more than a certain number, then I will use it only when it's free. WorldMark's is free.
 
Well... here comes people like AM1, and Ron, and RickAndCindy, who have 10 million points (9 million of which are resale) and all of which had VIP privilages up till recently), and 10 "names" on their account which allows them to make 10 (or whatever arbitrary number of fake names they have listed on the account) simultaneous bookings.
Ron specifically stated years back that because he's only one person, he could only make one reservation at a time. So say 100 people go online to make an ARP reservation, and one of them is Ron. By the time he's ready to make the second reservation, 99 other people have booked. How does one dude make 10 simultaneous bookings?
 
I take issue with several aspects of your post, and will break them down individually.



This one is probably the one that is the most disingenuous. And here's why.

All owners have the equal opportunity to book stays. That is accurate. But what your statement ignores a couple key things. I believe you failed to state this purposely to make your argument look better... but I digress.

1. Your average owner gets one, and exactly one opportunity to book a high demand resort at peak location, at peak demand. What I mean by this is, let's take NOLA Mardi Gras week or Daytona Bike week... your average owner needs to book this at midnight 13 months out. They have one shot because they are competing for this slot against all other owners. Right?

Well... here comes people like AM1, and Ron, and RickAndCindy, who have 10 million points (9 million of which are resale) and all of which had VIP privilages up till recently), and 10 "names" on their account which allows them to make 10 (or whatever arbitrary number of fake names they have listed on the account) simultaneous bookings.

So your average owner is not just competing against the other owners, they are competing with the slumlord renter crew who is paying a buddy 12 pack of beer to be up at midnight to "book fake vacations" parked in the name of an "owner" who doesn't really exist, while it waits to have a GC assigned to it after the sale.

2. You ignore the "buying power" that mega renters flexed on the booking scene. This cannot be ignored. You thrown 10 million points at a handful of high demand weeks, and you have made your nut for the year.

I would really be curious how many actual bookings some of the worst offenders actually used for themselves.



And you screwed tens of thousands of owners the ability to book stays they PAID for the ability to book.



Sure, you all paid your MF because the moment you didn't, Wyndham would shut off the gravy train and your revenue stream would halt, and some of you might have to get a job...

If there's one thing the mega renters all have in common is they refuse to acknowledge they have done anything wrong. The cognitive dissonance that leads to such an ethical failure in one's brain to allow this is just shocking to me.
Well, I own more like 4.5 million developer points. Just an FYI.
 
And I am glad of it because I can use it for my own trips. I am going to be using it often, unless they do charge a fee for more than a certain number, then I will use it only when it's free. WorldMark's is free.
My understanding is there is a $25 fee, per reservation you accept (via the waitlist).
 
Oh, give it a rest... you say I sound like a broken record?

I assure you the Florida AG (and the entire Florida Republican party) receives more money in campaign contributions from Wyndham than the "2 or 3 affected parties" who would complain. Plus they have legitimate real cases affecting Floridians (you aren't a Floridian, i'm guessing... I am) to be working on. As a Florida resident, I would feel betrayed (see what I did there) if they wasted their time doing what you suggest

Wyndham is a Florida "person." Granted, not a natural person but a person nevertheless. The Florida AG should be concerned with fraudulent activity by Florida persons, natural or otherwise
 
My understanding is there is a $25 fee, per reservation you accept (via the waitlist).
What would be great is if I could put in a waitlist and get the match within 60 days and get the discount. That will really make some people angry on TUG (well, one person will be angry about it).
 
What would be great is if I could put in a waitlist and get the match within 60 days and get the discount. That will really make some people angry on TUG (well, one person will be angry about it).
Agree, I wonder how that'll work with upgrades. I'm guessing it won't, I don't know how it could. Well... I would never expect Wyndham to put the thought or effort into it nor for their IT to have the skills to implement it successfully. My guess is the net net on it is we might get a reservation we want, but we won't get the upgrades we might have found doing things the old-fashioned (tenacity and patience) way. Interested in seeing what gets delivered (and making the best of it).
 
We booked everything within 60 days. Everyone had the ability to book whatever we were able to book. Tenacity and patience is required.

All this is doing is admitting your business model exploited VIP privileges to the extreme. Prompting Wyndham to close that last loophole.

Congratulations, you helped kill your own golden goose!

And yet you still cry foul? Amazing... keep it up, every post you make, it weakens whatever perceived position you had even further.
 
All this is doing is admitting your business model exploited VIP privileges to the extreme. Prompting Wyndham to close that last loophole.

Congratulations, you helped kill your own golden goose!

And yet you still cry foul? Amazing... keep it up, every post you make, it weakens whatever perceived position you had even further.
You are an incredibly abusive person. I am giving away a lot of my contracts, closing many of them myself to save the new owners from paying closing fees.
 
My understanding is there is a $25 fee, per reservation you accept (via the waitlist).

Yes, and this has been verified to be a separate/distinct fee apart from any other applicable fees, applied when you accept the waitlisted reservation.


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What would be great is if I could put in a waitlist and get the match within 60 days and get the discount. That will really make some people angry on TUG (well, one person will be angry about it).

From what I have loosely gathered - and have yet to verify - is that the waitlist function may not
be available within the discount window.


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What would be great is if I could put in a waitlist and get the match within 60 days and get the discount. That will really make some people angry on TUG (well, one person will be angry about it).

Wrong. TWO!!
 
All this is doing is admitting your business model exploited VIP privileges to the extreme. Prompting Wyndham to close that last loophole.

Congratulations, you helped kill your own golden goose!

And yet you still cry foul? Amazing... keep it up, every post you make, it weakens whatever perceived position you had even further.

I did a lot of the same thing as Cindy. I spent hours looking for rentable (i.e., desirable) reservations that I could book at a discount and maybe score an upgrade as well. It was unlikely that there would be Mardi Gras or Daytona Bike Week reservations but I booked (and rented) a lot of reservations at great resorts at very attractive prices, prices that were less than the small owner's maintenance fees for the same reservation at full price. "Rent from a VIP" was a signature slogan of a TUGger a few years back as an alternative to buying.

Search the LMR Offered forum with my user ID. Then explain to me how your little guys were harmed by the reservations I booked inside the discount window.

Alas, we aren't all as righteous as you.
 
Agree, I wonder how that'll work with upgrades. I'm guessing it won't, I don't know how it could. Well... I would never expect Wyndham to put the thought or effort into it nor for their IT to have the skills to implement it successfully. My guess is the net net on it is we might get a reservation we want, but we won't get the upgrades we might have found doing things the old-fashioned (tenacity and patience) way. Interested in seeing what gets delivered (and making the best of it).

This is why I think the new waitlist function won’t run within the discount window at all - because it will step on the auto-upgrade process. I asked several times about this and didn’t get a comprehensive answer to my inquiries - but my overall sense from what I was told was that the waitlist function won’t be available within the discount window. We will have to wait and see of course.


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It seems like what you're describing is collective outcome - or perhaps more accurately demographic outcome. (And not much about opportunity, really.) If the goal is to have more owners in general occupying units (what I'm calling demographic outcome), then yes - mission accomplished.

But I think when some owners are like, "Yay, the megarenters are out of business!" they're thinking of individual benefit to themselves as an existing owner. However, the only impact I see to existing owners - since there are still just as many points in the system chasing the same limited number of popular reservations - continues to be the possibility that some of those new owners are not very good at using their points compared to the megarenters. It might be a slight bump to opportunity.

What I was trying to point out is that it’s not equal opportunity for all owners - as am1 ascribed - if 95/100 reservations in my example weren’t for owners - they were for renters in reality. That’s not equal opportunity for all owners in my view. 95 owners lost out to 95 renters - all of which were in clear violation of the commercial use policies.


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We booked everything within 60 days. Everyone had the ability to book whatever we were able to book. Tenacity and patience is required.
Or, you could simply follow the rules!
 
In general, it is assumed that Wyndham pays the MFs for resale points acquired back to the HOAs so long as they are holding those points - either for future sale to a retail customer - or for rental purposes. There's a bit of gray in the wording of the actual founding trust documents at least based upon my own analysis - so I'm not entirely certain that Wyndham actually ends up paying the MFs in every case -
I do not see room for any gray area when it comes to paying maintenance fees. Every fixed week, floating week, or Unidivided Interest at a resort is deeded to someone . That someone is responsible for paying the maintenance fees, otherwise bad debt mounts at the resort. Wyndham cannot take back any deed and just choose to not pay the maintenance fees associated with a deeded property.

What is optional for Wyndham is paying the maintenance fees that are in arrears prior to the foreclosure. My resort has a contract whereby Wyndham pays up to $2,000 in foreclosure costs plus the maintenance fees in arrears.

"I'm pleased to report that our agreement with Wyndham continues to significantly reduce our bad debt. The Wyndham Foreclosure Agreement has allowed us to increase our maintenance fee collections and contributions to our reserve account. Every completed foreclosure, account brought current or account deeded back helps us remain solvent in our yearly operational budget and meet our reserve fund allocations."
 
When I rented I only booked within 60 days. I have gotten rid of several 100k to 500k resale, leaving my developer and 1 resale. I honestly believe that the competition for the desirable resorts at 13 mo will get way worse! I never use ARP. I don't plan that far ahead. Most of my personal usage I get at discount. I want my points to stretch a long ways. I'm a spur of the moment person, but am willing to juggle dates and/or locations so Wyndham works well for me. I know for a fact that the new owners of my resale contracts are going to use ARP. They told me so.
 
I do not see room for any gray area when it comes to paying maintenance fees. Every fixed week, floating week, or Unidivided Interest at a resort is deeded to someone . That someone is responsible for paying the maintenance fees, otherwise bad debt mounts at the resort. Wyndham cannot take back any deed and just choose to not pay the maintenance fees associated with a deeded property.

What is optional for Wyndham is paying the maintenance fees that are in arrears prior to the foreclosure. My resort has a contract whereby Wyndham pays up to $2,000 in foreclosure costs plus the maintenance fees in arrears.

"I'm pleased to report that our agreement with Wyndham continues to significantly reduce our bad debt. The Wyndham Foreclosure Agreement has allowed us to increase our maintenance fee collections and contributions to our reserve account. Every completed foreclosure, account brought current or account deeded back helps us remain solvent in our yearly operational budget and meet our reserve fund allocations."
What resort is saying that? Is that Pres Villas Grand Palms (formerly known as Presidential Villas at Plantation Resort)? It was wise of them to choose Wyndham to manage it. They will keep costs down and make sure fees are paid via collections and nasty letters. I applaud that because fees must be paid, they just have to be.

What I do not understand is a resort like Pagosa Springs, which has been Fairfield then Wyndham, so it's been in their hands forever, not taking care of every part of that resort. Some of it is in terrible shape, including Village Point, which has the worst units I have seen at any Wyndham.
 
Or, you could simply follow the rules!
So we are following the rules and are getting rid of a bunch of contracts. I do mean a bunch. I am doing the closings, so it's not fun.
 
What I do not understand is a resort like Pagosa Springs, which has been Fairfield then Wyndham, so it's been in their hands forever, not taking care of every part of that resort. Some of it is in terrible shape, including Village Point, which has the worst units I have seen at any Wyndham.

Curious - have you stayed at Wyndham’s Shawnee poconos resort before in any of the older sections like Ridge Top, River Village I or II, Depuy, etc.? Wondering how you would compare the older units at Pagosa Springs to the older units at the Shawnee resort…


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I am a vip Platinum owner who received the email and certified letter about commercial use , I have been using about half my points and renting half my points for the past 10 years usually to people who have rented to me before. I don't know what I should do as I can' t use all my points every year as I own at several other timeshares. Should I sign the letter or call and talk to man mentioned on the email.

I feel I am being ripped off my Wyndham as I have two recorded conversations where I asked about renting during updates one where I did purchase additional developer points within Wyndham and the salesman said there would not be any problems. I feel the Wyndham is structured that when I purchase a points at a specific resort I was purchasing a share of a real estate property and as a owner I have rights to do what I want with the real estate I purchased. My last purchase was 84000 or Club Wyndham Access which are think are more shaky to use for rentals, but for the timeshare I have specific deeds I believe I have rights to use as my choice since I own part of property. I have given weeks to Extra Holidays to rent and they have rented the Friday and Saturday nights and left me with no income for the other days. This has happen 4 out 4 times I have used extra holidays.

I think Wyndham needs to think this situation out and I understand elimiting Maga rental with all there cancel and rebook , 12 names on membership and treat owner that pay their fees and rent to friends as a benefit of the program and we don't need to be caught up in all corporate greed for high profits. I think they need to read their ownership goals over and decide how they treat owners who pay their fees and use the timeshare concept wisely.
 
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